Carry your KITAS/KITAP

The intriguing question pops up: Why did Immigration arrest them in the first place? Were they allowed to do so?
Article 71 of the Immigration law no. 6 of 2011 is the basis on which the Immigration officers will justify their actions, in this case under section b).
Article 71
Each Foreigner residing in the Territory of Indonesia is required to:
a). (…) or
b). show (produce) and submit (hand over) his travel document (Passport) and Stay Permit (Kitas/Kitap) if requested by immigration officers on duty in order to supervise Immigration control.
This is very clear:

    One is obliged to show his passport and KITAS/KITAP when asked by an Immigration Officer.


If you fail to do so article 116 is the next legislation that will be handled.
Article 116
Each Foreigner who is noncompliant with (does not perform their obligations as stipulated in) Article 71 will be convicted (or shall be punished) with a maximum confinement of 3 (three) months or a fine of up to Rp.25,000,000 (twenty five million rupiah).
Also very clear:

    If you cannot show your passport or KITAS/KITAP you will be convicted. Maximum 3 months jail or maximum Rp.25,000,000.

If immigration decide to impose these draconian laws re id in bali im sure they would make a small fortune !

and they could turn all the empty hotels into prisons , great economic idea ! "nice little earner for the government of RI"

welcome to wonderful indonesia !!

No worries about Bali Tel. 

If your passport is back in the hotel safe, or with your visa agent...you won't be arrested...not on Bali anyway.  Years back it wouldn't be unusual for me to be in physical possession of my passport for only a few months in any given year...all the other time it being with my visa agent for visa renewals.   

Reading Fred's story, it sounds more to me that the time (3 AM) and place had more to do with that raid than anything else. 

In my 30 plus years of living  and working in developed and undeveloped countries , the most I have carried is a fotocopy of my visa , and not always that , I have never had a problem , my passport was always secure with an agent or a safe .
if immigration suspect a person of wrongdoing , I think its reasonable to take that person to to his or her address for confirmation of visa or id ,
arresting the individual , and when a friend or agent presents  the docs  at immigration ,they then take possession  of the passport with the threat if the aforementioned fine is not paid the next day prison will follow , is to say the least heavy handed , hardly a good image to present to the world , in my view.

"and when a friend or agent presents  the docs  at immigration ,they then take possession  of the passport with the threat if the aforementioned fine is not paid the next day prison will follow , is to say the least heavy handed , hardly a good image to present to the world , in my view."

I couldn't agree more.  But that is not what is happening, at least not what is happening here on Bali.

If you think otherwise, then present a documented case.

I was referring to aforementioned case in jakarta .

"I was referring to aforementioned case in jakarta."

OK, just to be clear, “Indonesia Expat” is a blog…not a journalism venue.  Moreover, the article is posted by “Permit House” a commercial visa processing agency in Jakarta. 

If one bothers to read the entire article it becomes increasingly obvious that the whole point of the article is to stimulate business. 

Note under “What to do?”  specifically, their item 3 which they title as “Be still smart.” It could not be more obvious what their intentions are, summarized by this line:  “This article is just to shed light on the sometimes undisclosed and sinister world of Immigration.” 

But, most importantly, there is nothing in that article which states that in fact any of these folks were actually fined, the amount of those fines (if in fact fined) or jailed. 

IMHO supermarket tabloid trash style “journalism” which isn’t journalism at all, doesn’t belong on this forum.  It only creates confusion and hysteria. 

Now, just to prove what a load of trash the Indonesian Expat article is, read this from the Jakarta Globe which covers the exact same event: 

http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news … tion-raid/

I think my points should be crystal clear.      And personally, if I lived in Jakarta, I'd be pretty happy these sort of raids are going on!   

if you check living in indonesia forum you will note this terrible experience was reported by a members 3 friends during the raid .

I stated the law of indonesia quite clearly in my previous post , draconian though it is IMHO.

"if you check living in indonesia forum you will note this terrible experience was reported by a members 3 friends during the raid."

Without saying much more, all I can say is that I am very particular what other forums and blogs I read, and or contribute to.   

And furthermore, I have no reason to question or to doubt the Jakarta Globe's reporting of the events.

Now, just to prove what a load of trash the Indonesian Expat article is, read this from the Jakarta Globe which covers the exact same event: 

http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news … tion-raid/

You're wrong on that one as that's a raid from 2015

Published on 7 May 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guq8r5iPRYk

However, Roy's post made me investigate the story in the OP a little more, and it seems to be a scare story in many ways, so I must take a closer look to find out the truth.
They used the 2015 story in exactly the same way, even using the same photo.
In the 2015 story they misrepresent immigration as violent, attacking the American for no special reason, but the video shows the guy as aggressive, probably drunk and trying to fight his way out of it.
That makes me more suspicious of the events as told by the Indonesian expat.

http://indonesiaexpat.biz/tag/passport/

You'll notice the same theme in both stories, both (as Roy says) seemingly aimed at drumming up business.

Hang on, I missed something.

The piece also mentions KTP, and carrying copies instead of the real thing.
That's a clear breach of the rules as foreigners must carry their KTP or other residence document at all times.

I think there's a lot more to this story story than the wild unsupported allegations of bribe money being extracted I've read in other places.

Thanks for that clarification Fred.  I couldn’t find a date on the Globe article and presumed (since the Indonesian Expat lifted the same photo) that it was current.

You know, the integrity of that blog (Indonesian Expat) has been questioned before on this forum…another bogus article posted by Permit House.

Their trash doesn’t belong here.

I thought about dumping the thread when I realised I'd believed a dodgy piece, but leaving it is better as it warns expats to seriously consider who they use as an immigration agent.

IMHO, that's a good call.  It also serves as a reminder to not always rely on the accuracy of what one reads on the internet.   

Ubudian wrote:

IMHO, that's a good call.  It also serves as a reminder to not always rely on the accuracy of what one reads on the internet.   

I saw the link by accident whilst searching for something else, fully expecting the story to be printed in a variety of places in short order.
As far as I've seen, there is no other version of this story anywhere, not a peep of it.
I've searched blogs, forums, newspapers and a bunch of other places, only one having any mention at all of this event, and that lacking any detail save people were arrested, but not saying why they were arrested. No news outlets I've seen are carrying it.
That alone suggests the piece is in question.

Tremendous researching Fred. If you do manage to find any other versions of your story then post them as I am intrigued to know more.

Hansson

Fred,

You and I are both very aware of how Indonesian immigration has undergone great reforms and improvements, especially in recent years.

We are also both aware of false stories, or exaggerated stories which continue to abound regarding corruption by immigration officials.  Many of these are still on the internet today. 

The idea that immigration officers would stage raids in order to round up expats in order to black mail them with “fines” based on a wild interpretation of the law just doesn’t pass the “makes sense” test.  Moreover, if such activity was actually going on, it would be immediately disclosed.

^
Agreed.
I've been to South Jakarta immigration many times over the last year or so, and found them to be very professional and very helpful.

The 2015 story is known to have dubious content as the video clearly shows the American, very probably drunk, resisting arrest by struggling violently, so the version depicting immigration officers as thugs is questionable at best. The restraint seen in the video is minimal and there is no violence used that isn't absolutely necessary to stop him escaping.
Whilst I have no reliable source offer an insight into this week's story, the reporting of the earlier arrests would suggest the need to take consider a few things before accepting is as truth.

I'm really quite disappointed in my failure to spot the funny smell before I posted the thread.

However, it looks as if it might be a good idea to carry the original KITAS or KITAP, and you absolutely must carry your residence card at all times. I always carry my KTP  in my wallet, but added my KITAP yesterday - just in case.

Good advice Fred.

I'm going to pull the story apart.

http://indonesiaexpat.biz/other/info-fo … patriates/

Start with the photo - a fake as it was from last year, not this raid.

A total of 19 expats were arrested and taken to the Immigration office at Jl. Mampang/Buncit in South Jakarta. Among them were a few that possessed a copy of their KITAP and a KTP. So, what did these expats actually do wrong? Nothing, really!

19 arrested (How many expats around that area at night?), but a few (Not all) were carrying a photocopy of KITAP and KTP, not an original KTP as the law states. Yep - that's what they did wrong, not "Nothing really", but clearly breaking the law.

forced to complete a joyful evening in a depressing room at the Immigration Office – together with 18 others!

19 arrested, and together with 18 others?
How many had copies? The maths suggests one, with 18 carrying nothing at all, plenty of legitimate reason for immigration to arrest them.
Can one be described as a few?

As it was in the middle of the night and many were more or less in some state of lesser awareness,

AKA - Drunk

As law abiding citizens

Law abiding citizen who seem to have broken the law by not carrying any identification.

The intriguing question pops up: Why did Immigration arrest them in the first place? Were they allowed to do so?

They seem to have been arrested for not being able to prove who they were and their immigration status as they had no identification, and because they were breaking the law by not doing so.

If you cannot show your passport or KITAS/KITAP you will be convicted. Maximum 3 months jail or maximum Rp.25,000,000.

They couldn't and couldn't show anything else either, assuming my reading between the lines is anything like accurate.

I don't drink so I can't use the excuse of being drunk when I believed this story.
I did wake up at 3am that morning, so I'm going to say I was very tired.

One last note ...

I would love to hear immigration's side of this story and, should anyone from that office happen to read this, I will be very happy to post you point of view on the matter for you.
South Jakarta immigration know how to contact me.

I should also make note, the site's Facebook page looked like this a few weeks ago, but they seem to have had a fit of common sense and removed that stupidity now.

Indeed Fred, the underlining issue at play on this thread, as in many past threads, all boils down to accuracy, reliability, credibility, and honesty. 

Posts and threads which are clearly aimed at advancing an agenda…an agenda which most often is commercially initiated, are not always easy to spot.

As a kid I remember my dad always saying “don’t believe everything you read in a newspaper.”  If he was still alive, and able to see the baloney which all too often pollutes the internet, I can only wonder what he would say about that.

This raid took place at 5.30am and there were several nationalities involved. They were near or inside  Top Gun and really should not have been there at that time of the morning during the fasting month.

Some with all the correct documents were let go, others taken off and locked up until the correct documents arrived and then they paid a fine of around 10 million each. Other paid more due to arguing and delaying of around 25 million.

South Jakarta immigration deal with with many expats due to the fact so many expats live in the south. Kalibata, Blok M, Kemang, Rasuna, Cilandak are all big expat communities and watering holes so they like to keep checks up.

One of my colleagues friends here was caught up in the raid so that's how I know this.

Thanks for your reply Luke.
Was the club open illegally at that time, or operating within the terms of their licence?
I understand opening times are restricted during Ramadan, so that's a possible cause of the problem.

I imagine illegally but I can't remember if the expats were out in the street for all to see.

Top Gun has been around for years so I am sure they are well connected who knows maybe even made the call.

I don't go to places like that, but I see it's only spitting distance from Mabes Polri, something that could easily account for a report to immigration.

I always carry my original KITAS wherever I go, I keep it in my wallet and I keep a scanned copy on my computer. But I must say that for an official document it looks a bit like a low quality colour photocopy.

But it's surprising how often I need to show it, whenever I visit the bank, when I use one of those Doraemon prams in Aeon Mall in BSD etc, anytime I need to show a form of ID I just whip it out.

I used to carry my KITAP, then stopped bothering, but have started again now.
I rarely get it out at all, using my KTP as identification for most things, but foreigners will get asked for it (or at least a photocopy) when they apply for bank accounts, driving licences and other things of that nature.
It sounds a lot as if the immigration raids mentioned above were caused by odd, possibly illegal behaviour, and are not standard operating procedure for immigration.

I will take very great care not to believe the Indonesiaexpat site again until I've checked out their story very carefully.

yap , i find the ktp works for everything its a recognised form of id here .

One note.
When applying for a new driving licence or other official things such as a bank account, carry all original documents, including passport.
Also have photocopies available to make the officer's life easier.
Colour ones always go down well and officers tend to make life easy for you if you make life easy for them.

I heard about it also and people started carrying along their original passports and KITAS/KITAP etc. I still wonder why nothing about it was ever shown in the local news (I did not see it at least) nor was reported in the newspaper....

Update.

Advice from a highly placed official I had a chat with last week was to carry your original immigration document at all times in order to avoid any potential misunderstanding by being able to prove your immigration status any time you're asked.
My further advice would be to make very sure it's kept in a safe place where it would be very hard to lose or be targeted by a criminal, perhaps in a hidden belt wallet such as the type I use when I wander off the beaten track.
When out shopping, it's in my wallet with all the usual stuff, but I'm very careful with my wallet so the chances of an issue are very limited.

As for the local ID card, ALWAYS carry that as it's very clearly illegal not to.

It's quite unlikely you'll get asked for it whilst out shopping, but it could well be very handy if you frequent areas immigration know undocumented immigrants are likely to be.