Naming infant for Vietnamese birth certificate

they wouldn't allow Western name for my daughter on her birth certificate as a first name. It had to be middle name. So I said screw it I'll change her name when I get back to Canada.

Diazo wrote:

I know I have seen this topic covered many ties on the forum. Tried to search for it but the search function on here seems to leave a lot to be desired.
I am an American Married to a Vietnamese and just gave birth to our son. One government office says we must name out child with only Vietnamese names. The law clearly states (in my opinion) that is the child is of parents with a citizenship other than Vietnamese the cild can be names any name of the parents choosing.
I have read on this forum many who have crossed this bridge, and while they got pushback from the office involved they eventually prevailed and were allowed to have a Western name on the birth certificate.
Can anyone help

I also would like to know more about it long ago i spoke to an indian guy who's married to Vietnamese , they gave their daughter name susan so i am pretty sure you can too !.. sadly i have lost contact with that guy and cant figure out process

I'm a Vietnamese American married to a Vietnamese national, we didn't have any problems giving our son a Western first name.  Your right about the law. I guess it depends on the person processing the form at the government office.  Often times one person will approve something while another will reject it.

khanh44 wrote:

they wouldn't allow Western name for my daughter on her birth certificate as a first name. It had to be middle name. So I said screw it I'll change her name when I get back to Canada.

Is this for real? Sounds like some people want a bribe just to give you the privilege to name your own child.

Who do they think they are?

phikachu wrote:

Who do they think they are?

They don't think, they know.

phikachu wrote:

khanh44 wrote:

they wouldn't allow Western name for my daughter on her birth certificate as a first name. It had to be middle name. So I said screw it I'll change her name when I get back to Canada.

Is this for real? Sounds like some people want a bribe just to give you the privilege to name your own child.

Who do they think they are?

The employees working at the So Tu Phap in Bien Hoa. I don't know if it's the employees or their policies but I felt it was tougher than what I read others have to go through on this forum.

They interviewed both my wife and myself for an hour just to obtain the marriage certificate. This despite showing them I've lived in Vietnam with my wife for over a year prior to obtaining the marriage certificate and my wife's pregnant belly.

Than this name change I was totally thrown off because it did not make sense. I'm a foreign citizen what's wrong with having a foreign first name.

My wife's family said I should have bribed them because that's what Vietnamese people do. I guess I'm not Vietnamese enough lol.

khanh44 wrote:

The employees working at the So Tu Phap in Bien Hoa. I don't know if it's the employees or their policies but I felt it was tougher than what I read others have to go through on this forum.

They interviewed both my wife and myself for an hour just to obtain the marriage certificate. This despite showing them I've lived in Vietnam with my wife for over a year prior to obtaining the marriage certificate and my wife's pregnant belly.

Than this name change I was totally thrown off because it did not make sense. I'm a foreign citizen what's wrong with having a foreign first name.

My wife's family said I should have bribed them because that's what Vietnamese people do. I guess I'm not Vietnamese enough lol.

Seriously they interviewed you an hour ! Went i went to make my marriage certificate and and etc they didnt do jack !..

But ya bribing is like unwritten rule  i wanted a local police document to get my visa exemption.it should take 2 weeks they said but didn't happen for 3 . since i was in hurry and running out of time we had to pay the unofficial fee.

It is illegally legal way.

When I was going in for my marriage interview every couple (all mixed)  had a representative/interpreter with them except us. I noticed their interview went quickly. Than they called us. I'm thinking those couples that went before my wife and I their representative screwed us by probably bribing some people.

I notice the subtle hints but I pretend to play dumb. I work hard for my money and I'm not going to pay it just for convenience sake.

khanh44 wrote:

When I was going in for my marriage interview every couple (all mixed)  had a representative/interpreter with them except us. I noticed their interview went quickly. Than they called us. I'm thinking those couples that went before my wife and I their representative screwed us by probably bribing some people.

I notice the subtle hints but I pretend to play dumb. I work hard for my money and I'm not going to pay it just for convenience sake.

I am too like that i refuse to bribe but i had no choice that time my wife and her family is like just pay 20$ or 30 and get it done .... it was the last hour thing for me so do it get over it

for marriage certificate i didn't stay for more then 3 mins just to sign the paper. we had no representatives or any thing.

Back to topic my wife is an english teacher so there are some students who have mixed parents and have western name. I think its matter of place and time the guy who is registering must have not known the rules and is stubborn on his own or just wants it under table donation ... Bhaa

Im contemplating the name for our child on their Viet birth Certificate and wondering what u all think of the pros and cons for them having white/ VN name

VN name
- better vs no chance of scholarship
- better job prospects and easier to get into univ.
-legal/ police benefits

Western name
- may help with some jobs in VN?

My friend and me we both got married with Indian. Her first baby was made Birth certificate with Foreign name 9 years ago and Vietnamese was family name. But last month she tried to make birth certificate for second baby. Government they not allow her to make foreign name as before and they have collected the birth certificate of first baby that she'd made before and required her renew it again with Vietnamese name, foreign name is just as middle name

jadepham.vietnam wrote:

My friend and me we both got married with Indian. Her first baby was made Birth certificate with Foreign name 9 years ago and Vietnamese was family name. But last month she tried to make birth certificate for second baby. Government they not allow her to make foreign name as before and they have collected the birth certificate of first baby that she'd made before and required her renew it again with Vietnamese name, foreign name is just as middle name

That's the same response I got. Foreign name is just as middle name. My daughter is 18 months. Don't know if this is the new policy when did they change it? Maybe 2 years ago?

phuon nye tah

A western middle name does not seem like a bad compromise to me but being a grandfather I am hardly in your shoes.  It does take away from the ability to clarify the many sexually ambiguous names in Vietnamese by using Anh or Thi in the middle.  My wife has a predominately male given name with Thi in the middle.

Another thing to think of, as you anticipate your children living as dual-nationals, is that there are a few Viet names that you might want to shy away from even if pressured by in-laws.  A few that I can think of are Phouc, Phat, Dung, Hung, and the lovely female name Bich.  I am sure that there are more.  Viet Kieu often take English names as an expression of a new patriotism but people with the above names, to avoid shocked looks and even schoolyard ridicule in the case of children, almost have to.  Choose wisely.

My uncle initially named his daughter Sury. But as another uncle pointed out he should change it as students could ridicule his daughter. My uncle asked 3 people to pronounce his daughter's name and each pronounced it differently; sorry, sery (cherry in Vietnamese) and one I can't remember but pronounced it incorrectly as well.

Not having kids I'm quite ignorant about the ramifications of trying to name them. My background is having a Vietnamese name on my passport as a British Citizen and so it seems a strange concept to me how authorities can force a name that they approve of upon you. I happen to really like my full name, as it's rare and shows my history and has meaning. There's only 3 people i know of in the world who have it and one of them is my uncle who I inherited it from. Anyway, most young asians adopt a western christian name to fit in. My family always call me by one too but I never use it outside of family because I like my name given to me at brith.

After some googling, it seems even in some countries where citizens enjoy greater freedoms, they have strange rules.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/25034/8- … aming-laws

This is Vietnam, I'm sure money can buy you whatever name you want for you or your child. I say you because oddly, the law applies to citizenship through naturalisation too. Apparently you need to adopt a Vietnamese name for your passport if you want to be Vietnamese Citizen. You'd think in this day and age the whole forced assimilation thing would have ended. The Hoa people were forced to adopt Vietnamese surnames back in the old days. The party will use any opportunity to show their absolute control and authority over the proles.

Thanks all for your replies. I don't know where the truth or what the facts are here in VN. I am getting stories that the laws cited here and that I too have cited are old and have been replaced. But no one in gov't here can provide a copy of that new law. At any rate I conceded and allowed the BC anyway they did it and my wife agreed to do all required so that I could get him his Certificate of Child Born Abroad. This would give him the American citizenship he entitled to by birth as he is my son. So I started the paperwork to do that and the wife now refuses to cooperate because she feels it would allow me to steal the baby and move to America with him. Even though I did not intend to apply for a passport for the child ( she thinks with citizenship I could apply for a passport and take him anyway). Even though Border patrol in America will require a letter from the absent parent when a child travels alone without both parents. So now my son can never have his birth right of citizenship. I have set aside $400,000 for his American university education and put into a trust for him 32 homes. All of he will never be able to have. But I am headed to the airport and let this fruitcake whacko live with her endless fears. She won't let the baby outside because everyone is kidnapping Western babies either. Big mistake marrying this one.

I don't really want to get into your relationship with your wife but look at these statements.

Diazo wrote:

So now my son can never have his birth right of citizenship. I have set aside $400,000 for his American university education and put into a trust for him 32 homes. All of he will never be able to have. But I am headed to the airport ....

First, although establishing proof will be more difficult, you can apply for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) up to your son's 18th birthday.  There is a fair chance that your wife will come around later.  In fact even if divorced, you could make the application later given the proper documentation.

Second, if she never does come around, and you really have set aside $400,000 for his education, he certainly could avail himself of that inheritance.  People with means and academic credentials can get student visas to the US now.  In 18 years, the situation could be completely different, likely in the direction of more interaction between VN and US.  By then, student visas for Vietnamese could be as common and as easy to obtain as they are for Japanese and Koreans today.

Third, there is no prohibition against Vietnamese citizens owning real property in the US, with the possible exception of farmland in a few states.  If you really have the ability to bequest 32 pieces of real property with rental homes on them, as an adult he will be able to, with no problem, get repeated business visas to the US to manage his property.   I do not question the factual basis of your assertions.   However, none of those thing fully disinherit your son.

THIVG
I think you missed my point and only concentrated on your view of my integrity. My point being why as a parent would anyone deny their child a right given to them by birth.
It is my understanding of the US law that the CoBA only documents the fact that you were indeed born to an American citizen thus have the RIGHT to apply for a Certificate of Citizenship at any point in the future, if you or your parents desire. Why would inheritance of any kind matter to citizenship. Sure he could get a business visa to visa his inherited property. But listing is much different than living in the property as an immigrant. Immigration to America is by far no certainty and not assured by birth,. Indeed a holder of a CoBA can not apply for an immigration visa. Maybe I miss your point about my integrity and it's play on the issue at hand.
Moreover perhaps you don't fully understand the tax implication of a foreigner owning property in America verses a U.S. citizen owning property. A citizen can use the tax laws to reduce or eliminate his Federal tax liabilities. Whereas a non-citizen must pay 30% up front, no deduction allowed ( believe it is still 30% at one time it was 25%)

THIGV, Back in 1968 I worked with a Vietnamese special forces sergeant named Dung, pronounced Dzung (he was from the North) who was extremely arrogant and overbearing to the Montagnard troops. We Americans always called him "Dung" around the troops and 'sh++head' among ourselves. One day a Montagnard interpreter asked us why it was so hard for Americans to say 'Dzung' and we clued him in on the meaning of dung. It didn't take long for the word to get around.

My wife's kids, one born in the US and the other in Germany, both got American first and Vietnamese middle names. Her deceased husband had been a US military policeman in Long Binh. Both of the kids have always been proud of their Vietnamese names and heritage, but only one has been to Vietnam.

Does the initial name on a new-born's birth certificate have to match the one after the unmarried father does the DNA test?? (within 6 months??)

Also, does anyone know if i can do the DNA test in Nha Trang, Quy Nhon or Da Nang? or i have to go to SGN or Hanoi??

In another thread someone wisely pointed out that if her birth certificate and foreign passport name are different -it could cause huge headaches with bureaucracy later on.

hmmm...
my son is 19mo old, was born in hcmc, and has a full American name on his birth certificate. my daughter (7) was born in hcm, too. she has an English first name with a vn middle name.

my wife mentioned the law had changed before he was born, but we didn't have any trouble obtaining the bc with his English name. at least that's how I remember it.

Diazo, what do you mean "  Even though Border patrol in America will require a letter from the absent parent when a child travels alone without both parents." ?

Whenever you travel with a child and both parents are not present they will ask to see permission from the absent parent or parents . If you observe even here they require it. I often see grandparents traveling with their grandchildren . The officials will ask for written permission. Hope that clarifies what I said. It is to try a prevent divorce custody abductions of children.

I think I see the confusion in my first comment on that issue. To clarify if a father is traveling with an underage child for example and the mother is not traveling with them. Immigration will ask for a letter from the mother that she has given permission. My original comment made it sound as if the child was traveling alone with no parent. My bad

thanks for your reply. I understand I have traveled many times to the US and a few other countries over the last seven years with my daughter and have never had to produce a letter from her mother. the only time i had any trouble was the first time i brought her to the airport in hcmc and it was because she didn't have a visa for her stay in vn. she had a US passport with no visa stamp. i had to pay a fee for the missing visa and we were free to go. I've never had any trouble upon arrival in the US, they just process her the same as me. I'm not saying the procedure of having to have the spouse's approval isn't necessary and it sounds like a good idea to safeguard against any potential problems. in the future i'll take one, just in case:) but so far, i haven't needed it.

@surus
Proceed at your own risk. I would suggest you read the US government sites on this issue. They do warn you. I have no clue what they do if you can not produce the proof they ask for.

@Surus -- It's a good idea to heed Diazo's advice on the mater of letter of consent.

In 2006 when we still lived in Italy, spouse and I took one of my Italian students to a 7-week trip back to the States.  At that time, he's 15 years old, 5'6", had his own prepaid credit cards and other IDs, spoke English very well, confident, and definitely not helpless by any means.

We were flying from Rome to LAX, then flight-hopping across the country.  At all custom points (Rome, Heathrow, LAX, and JFK), and check-in/security points at half of the US airports that we passed through, we were asked for documents to show that he was allowed to travel with us.  Since his parents and I prepared for all eventualities, we had a notarized power of attorney in both languages making my spouse and me his in loco parentis.  It would have been a disaster had we not done that.

When travelling with minor children as a single parent or non-parent, letter of consent is not for "just in case" scenario, but may be required by law:

"Travel from the USA and Canada: If a child or teenager is travelling with only one parent or guardian, the notarized consent letter from the parent/guardian who is not travelling with them is required. If a parent/legal guardian has sole custody, then proof of sole custody must be presented."

"While Custom and Border Protection may not ask to see this documentation when the child enters the U.S., the U.S. is very sensitive to the possibility of child abduction and trafficking, and the child and accompanying adult could be detained if questions arise about the situation."

That is the same info I received from the US government. If course, no ince has to believe it. But gosh what a disappointment if you got caught with your pants down. The last number I saw for the US alone was that a tad less then 400 children from the USA were abducted by their non-custodial parent. All were eventually found and returned to the custodial parent with the help of treaties under The Hague treaty convention.
Hope the next time you travel your always as lucky as you have been and were not asked. But I do hope they eventually find you do not have the required papers. I do loathe government intervention in our lives. But in this case Inam glad they try to stop the abductions. Those who do not heed the advice deserve to be put back on a flight to where they can from or detained until they can produce proof. Maybe just missing an onward flight would make them think twice the next time. Again good luck

I did not read all of these threads. As a reminder if the child will be an American Citizen and after you have resolved the name issue and have a birth certificate, you should go to the uS Embassy and get a Birth Abroad Certificate. We did in Singapore and it has been a huge help in many situations. You can check the embassy web site for the details.

Congrats on the Birth of your Daughter!!!

When our son was born there we had to give his middle or first name in Vietnamese
And that was 6 years ago

I am USA and my wife Vietnamese and we live in HCMC. For our first son back in June 2016, we had no problem giving him the first and middle name we desired (English names) on the Vietnamese birth certificate. Now we just did our second son's birth certificate and we were told in 2017 a new law is in place allowing only the Foreign family (last) name, but the first and middle had to be in Vietnamese. They informed us that Germany had a simple form they fill out at their embassy to resolve this issue for their German documents, and that the USA must also have it. We had wanted JAMES ETHAN, but for now picked LEO as given name on VN birth Cert., and hoped we could have USA documents of JAMES LEO.

Now, in looking over the HCMC US Consulate CRBA application, and the ACS FAQ section on CRBA, it says the application MUST use the same name as appears on birth certificate. This means the passport and social security number will follow suit. I guess we will have to change his name from the USA and it will have some expense and requiring original paper work documents to the Dept. of State to change a CRBA name. As I understand, the CRBA is used in place of birth certificate in the USA.

Appreciate any feedback from someone who has found some way to early on to remedy this issue.

Just my personal opinion with no legal bearing but it strikes me that having different names on your birth certificate, on the CRBA and SS# is just a recipe for headaches later in life.  Every time he pulls out one document, he will have to show another justifying the changes.  The same goes for changing his name in family court after you arrive in the US.  Why not just select a pair of Vietnamese names that are reasonably easy for Americans to pronounce and have no obvious nasty accidental homophones, such as Phuc or Dung, and go from there?

Edit:  I now see that I expressed the same opinion above, but I still hold it.  Name changes only insure bureaucratic confusion later.   

I wish my mom could for see the future that I have to escape out of Vietnam in my early 20, and choose the name that American could pronounce.  My name sound so bad, I have change it slightly. My Vietnamese coworkers said your calling and written name is not the same. I said yeah, just try to avoid murdering someone mispronounce my name.

Rollingbroak wrote:

I wish my mom .....choose the name that American could pronounce.

Just out of curiosity are you willing to tell us your name?  Not asking for the full name, just the embarrassing part.

THIGV wrote:

Why not just select a pair of Vietnamese names that are reasonably easy for Americans to pronounce and have no obvious nasty accidental homophones, such as Phuc or Dung, and go from there?

That is what we did and everybody is happy.  Best part, my family name is French and thus, the surname is common in VN. 

What is comical, I have had many immigration officers in VN ask me if I am Vietnamese because of my family name, despite the fact that I am as european looking as one can get.

THIGV wrote:

just the embarrassing part.

Not asking too much, really !   

Ciambella wrote:

THIGV wrote:

just the embarrassing part.

Not asking too much, really !   

Since he brought it up...

One thing I have noticed as a substitute teacher taking attendance in Honolulu is that many second generation Vietnamese students have taken the path of least resistance and pronounce their names perhaps the way their regular teachers do.  As you might expect, the most common change is those who say their family name as New-yen.  One boy named Khoa had adopted the phonetic pronunciation Koa (Ko-a) which is a fairly common Hawaiian name, or part of a longer name, meaning warrior.  Hopefully, once they return home the pronunciations return to normal.

Good day OP, yours is an interesting question which Id to answer based on my knowledge:
Basically, the infants with nationality other than Vietnamese could be named with other language. According to Article 28.3 Vietnamese Civil Code, only people with Vietnamese nationality has to bear Vietnamese name. This means that you could name your child with any other language than Vietnamese.

The government officer takes harsh on you since you are foreigner and know a little bit of Vietnamese legal system or he/she just does not know about the specific law yet. The process of choosing foreign name for your child is following steps:

1.    You come to the your country embassy which place in Vietnam. There is a process call “Thoả thuận chọn họ, dân tộc, quốc tịch cho con” – Agreement on chossing surname, nationality and ethic group for children”. This document should be filled at the US Embassy since you are an American. Remember to bring along your marriage certificate, personal ID/Passport, your child’s birth certificate or any personal dossiers you feels it is nesscessary.
2.    You guys bring the above documents to the Department of Justice in your city/province which you are living at. The government officer there is going to authorize the document.
3.    Third step, bring the authorized agreement, your child’s birth certificate along you guys personal ID/Passport, one document explaining the reason you want to change your child name to the Ward People’s Committee where you are living.

Above is the process of changing your child’s name in Vietnam. Hopefully it is going to help you.

thanks your information, this article is very little for me.