Menu
Expat.com

Dual Nationality (CAN -->GER)

Post new topic

ffox

Hello!

so I was wondering if anyone had experience with getting German citizenship (without losing the original one (I'm canadian)).

I fill all the requirements to become a German Citizen (I've lived here in Germany for a total of 10 years already, I don't have a criminal record, I have a job, etc etc. In addition, my mother was German at the time of my birth (1972), but unfortunately, before 1975, only fathers (not mothers) could transmit their German citizenship (speak of archaic discriminatory laws... but that's another story!). 

In short, I want to keep the Canadian citizenship because I want the ease of travel and to keep a door open in case I ever want to return. I also would like to obtain the German one to give me the right to vote  where I am paying taxes! (right now, I cannot vote anywhere :( !). Apparently, these are not good enough reasons to get one without abandoning the other.

I was wondering if anyone has gone through this exercise and what was needed to keep the Canadian passport. I have acquaintances that have both, but they "went the other way": Germans applying for canadian citizenship.

Would be really interested in hearing from you!

best

Chris

beppi

Sorry, but it is not possible in your case to have double citizenship.
A permission to keep another citizenship when becoming German is given to EU citizens, or if your country puts unreasonable conditions onto renouncing (e.g. confiscation of property owned there - a few thousand dollar fee is not enough!). Canada does not do anything like that!

ffox

Thank you beppi for the info... :heart:

I am aware of all the conditions, they are here (see §12):
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rusta … 30913.html

I understand the conditions for keeping your original citizenship to be (summarized very liberally and briefly)
1) your country does not allow it
2) your country refuses it
3) the conditions for losing the citizenship is unreasonable
4) in special hardship cases for elderly people
5) the loss of citizenship leads to important financial or proprietary disadvantages
6) for refugees...

The way I see it, my only chance as a Canadian may be through point 5). And so my questions is what may constitute "a financial disadvantage"... Is there anyone out there who have used this point? I'm trying to understand this rule and maybe even try to find a way around it.

beppi

There were many court cases about this clause.
The general consensus is that a financial loss that does not make you destitute (e.g. a fee of several thousand dollars) is o.k., but the requirement of years of military service or the loss (without compensation) of the inherited family home is not reasonable and thus entitles you to keep your other citizenship.
Believe me - this will NOT work with reasonable countries like Canada.
If you want to try nevertheless, engage a very good immigration lawyer!

ffox

beppi wrote:

If you want to try nevertheless, engage a very good immigration lawyer!


LOL! OK... it seems that it is hopeless for me. I guess I will never vote again (not here, not in Canada (I lose the right after 5 years abroad)

You seem to know a lot, Beppi. The other route for me is probably also hopeless, right? Namely, my mother was German when I was born (before 1975). If my father had been German, I would get the German citizenship automatically. They "loosened" this crazy rule, by allowing children of German mothers to claim their citizenship up to a given date. I believe it is too late for me now. This is completely stupid. If they wanted to fix this law, they would have retracted it completely.

beppi

According to the rules you describe, this "other route" simply does not exist.
If voting is your main objective, why don't you just become German the normal way - or return to your country?

ffox

My wife and kids are in Germany, my parents and siblings are in Canada. I pay taxes, have properties and contribute to the prosperity and to my community in both countries. I have a job in Germany, but who knows if I need to find one in Canada down the road. So why would I not want to vote? And why in the world would I want to give up one citizenship over the other to do so?
Simply stupid rules, that can be bent at the flick of a finger if you know the right people... If I was a professional football player or a famous actor, there would be no problem.

beppi

You are free to make your own decisions within the framework of existing rules - which are legitimate as long as they are made in a democratic fashion.
But you should not whine about the results of democracy or bend the rules as you wish.

TominStuttgart

This sounds like a Canadian domestic issue. If you get German citizenship you will at least get to vote in Germany. Or if you return to Canada I believe you regain your voting rights there. But this is how the world works, one never gets it all. I don't know much about the Canadian laws but you are more likely to find a legal exception to the rules there than getting the right to keep your Canadian passport upon getting a German one. I read a few articles about the Canadian ruling and the main reasoning seemed to be that Canadians abroad are paying no taxes there so why should they get a say on matters that don't mainly affect them.  But maybe you can be seen as a dual resident of some sort since you mention having property and actually paying Canadian taxes.

ShamPh0t

Chris, there was an evening event here in Hamburg about this issue, it was held at the local SPD offices and sponsored by Democrats Abroad, an American branch of the Democratic Party in the U.S. More importantly, it was attended by two employees from the German immigration office. Bottom line, financial hardship is measured on fees vs. income. If the forfeiture fee in Canada exceeds a months income, that is considered an unreasonable hardship. If you're above that income level and intend to stay above it, you're out of luck. That's the case with me as a U.S. citizen, with the important difference that I can still vote in the U.S. (someone at the meeting pointed out that my vote in the U.S. may have a stronger effect on life in Europe than my vote in Germany - this seems true in light of the bizarre political situation over there). There may be other variations on hardship, not only financial, so get creative.
The immigration employees emphasized that decisions are made on a case by case basis and encouraged trying it out.
Good luck!
Eric

Articles to help you in your expat project in Germany

  • Getting married in Germany
    Getting married in Germany

    Non-German citizens can get married in Germany, whether to a German citizen or another foreign national. However, ...

  • Entry requirements for Germany
    Entry requirements for Germany

    Nationals of the EU and EEA can travel to Germany as short-term visitors without restrictions, with a national ...

  • Summer jobs in Germany
    Summer jobs in Germany

    The summer season in Germany begins in June and lasts until the end of August. These three months of the year ...

  • Elderly care in Germany
    Elderly care in Germany

    Germany may not have the sunshine and beaches of the Mediterranean or Southeast Asia, but it is among Europe's ...

  • Popular neighbourhoods in Frankfurt
    Popular neighbourhoods in Frankfurt

    Frankfurt is an international city and an important financial center in Europe, and each neighborhood has a story ...

  • Buying property in Frankfurt
    Buying property in Frankfurt

    Frankfurt has a very lively real estate market, and buying a house there is, without a doubt, a worthy long-term ...

  • Connecting to the internet in Germany
    Connecting to the internet in Germany

    Staying connected in Germany is easy thanks to its advanced telecommunications network and the widely available ...

  • Accommodation in Stuttgart
    Accommodation in Stuttgart

    Stuttgart, the capital city of the Baden-Württemberg region, is one of Germany's most diverse cities, ...

All of Germany's guide articles