Cultural differences between Vietnam and the West?

Every day, more motorcycles are added into the traffic. Jams can occur any time, thus the best excuse for lateness. Time is best seen as rubberized. Since they do not know how to plan, punctuality is a foreign concept. Words about time are just that - words. When an appointment is made, it's always subject to confirmation. If the only way to contact is a mobile phone, the numbers can always change and any after sales service, unless its a brick and mortar can be a no show!

Yes ciambella. I think that is the intention. It looks like mosquito netting. Kind of like those beekeeper slug on their heads. But out of the same material mosquito nets are made of.
Which reminds me of the crazy ways here. I just got over Fengue Gever which I am certain I got in Sai Gon ? ( HCMC for you ciambella). So I bought my ex sone skin-so-soft and told her the other things that could mitigate the risk of our infant son catching it. Quite an outbreak there at the moment they say. Instead of being concerned about protecting him as best she could she want to argue if the mosquito bite came from HCM or my town. Went on for two hours. I told her next time I will get the tag number if the mosquito that bit me and the mosquito police can chase the bugger down so he does not bite my son. Small minds. But she told me here they are to defend their position until the death right or wrong.

I would said please be careful with "what you think is right in Vietnam". If this is about Vietnamese  cultural then you have to learn to accept and adapt, there is not two way about it. Nobody shall change other people cultural. sometimes is for the betterment we recommend and suggest. you may teach them but whether they can accept and learn is entirely up tp them. you still can find majority is good.  Sometimes the mistake that they made not a mistake coz they dont know what is the correct way and they live by that in a daily routine. Just my two cents of opinion, mutual respect shall be initiated first, try to understand why they do and how they do it before we said "hey ! this is wrong..."
Each country have their cultural. I will accept more on a bad attitude and behaviour then to ask why the sun rise on the east......this is my personal opinion .

@ LSP123,
Except when they work for me. If you put your foot in their throat they get with the program. Granted they are not use to it. When I hired these painters I told them I would buy the paint and plaster , they provided everything else. An I am paying them a princely sum. First thing out of the gate they say they need brushes and rollers and this and that. I reminded them of our agreement. They insisted I buy what they asked for. I told them to pound sand and cone pick up their things and move on. They bought the stuff themselves and are at work as I write this.
But I agree with what you say. You just have to put your foot down here. It is all about money. I wish I could tell you how many times I have had contractors here telling me how something was going to be done. Once I say hit the road jack then change their tune and say " how was that you wanted it done ". They always cone up with some bs story it can. It be done this way or it is to hard. Hit the road then. They then understand and agree . Money, money, money. If you don't these roads will run all over you.
People ask me how I keep my staff so long and for such low pay. I train them and I demand compliance. And they seem to love it. No one else can keep help at twice what I pay and they are never happy with their help. These people will get in line if you tell them the line to get into

It will only work in a town area like Nha Trang etc but not in HCM City.  That is when you kind of integrated therein and everyone knows you as the big foreign Uncle.  And some souls may be devoid of get rich mentality and remain kind at heart. Ha Ha

Diazo wrote:

Kind of like those beekeeper slug on their heads. But out of the same material mosquito nets are made of.

Oh yes, I did see it once.  Didn't give it any thoughts then, but I'll definitely ask the reason when I see it next.

Diazo wrote:

... in Saigon ( HCMC for you ciambella).

I would never ever call Saigon by THAT name.  Not in a million years.

@Ivien
Hope you do not misunderstand us. We are not saying a cultural issue is wrong. Indeed, look at the thread title. We are simply comparing cultures. Agree, sometimes it may sound as if we are bashing the culture. It sure is not my intent to. It is the differences in cultures I live and enjoy. Does not mean the culture is right or wrong. But sometimes are reluctance to change impedes are advancement in the world. Then to we can get so o we tge too with are cultural beliefs we really mess things up bad. Take the culture of the USA. We have legislators that have nothing g else to do but think of crazy prohibitions to levi on the citizens. Then we have laws that put people in prison for long periods of time. We have more prisoners in America than the rest of the world put together.
Hereyou can lee anywhere just about, in America yoh can go to prison or jail.
So please don't get offended. Even the most advanced countries of the world have gone through what VN is going through. In psychology they call it tge Out of the Cave Theory. The longer we are exposed to more civilized ways the more advanced we become. Takes time and exposure.

Diazo :
... in Saigon ( HCMC for you ciambella).
I would never ever call Saigon by THAT name.  Not in a million years.

@LSP123
Not sure what you are trying to say. But I realize what your saying about timeliness not working in HCM. Believe it or not we have very populated cities in many countries where people can plan on commute time and arrive before the set time. It takes a thinking change and a desire to change. But all too often I hear the story you are trying to tell.... we can not change because it is different here. Yes, it is different, and for many of those reasons. Yet many of the same people who talk this way want to migrate to the West and have what the West can give them. But the West comes here and tries to tell you and this is what we hear.
There was once a thread on here a few years back where people were trying to group up with Westerners to find new ways of doing things as they are done in the West. I do not know what to say. I do know it takes many generations. Coming into capatilizm only a few years ago it will take many generation. There was a time in other forms of government where quality was not even a word, tipping was against the law. So many now their parents did not know how to teach the " New World" ideas. The next generation picked up a little. The next will be more so.

Hi Diazo, what I am trying to say is similar to what a lot are saying.  It's the VN culture thing and as a foreigner, you better get used to it. I did not judge whether a cultural trait is good or bad but merely state situations and possible reasons why they take place. This may help any newcomer ease into the culture better. We all know no one can change culture over night. Yet all of us, whether for love of VN or we have spouse who is local would want this nation to improve upwards in the Asean league. And things need to change if a nation desires to progress. But ultimately it's for the citizens to decide the direction they want to go. Certain practices seem impossible to change and that remains true till this day!

Which Budman ? Sai Gon or HCMC

I think Budman agrees with me that Saigon was, is, and will always be Saigon.  I can't even type those initials, let alone calling the city by that name.

Ciambella wrote:

I think Budman agrees with me that Saigon was, is, and will always be Saigon.  I can't even type those initials, let alone calling the city by that name.

Agree.
HCMC Xanh just  doesn't have the same ring to it as Saigon Xanh.

Okay then your a good girl with us!!!!!

@LSP123
  Perhaps what I have said in much of this discourse makes me sound jaded against VN and it's culture. I apologize to all if it sounds that way. Perhaps I should interspurce some positives that I do like about the culture. But it was never intended to put anyone down. As the title said it was intended to speak to the cultural differences.
  But I like the fact that VN does not have a huge social safety net and everyone must man an oar and row. I like the fact that family sticks together and takes care of family. I like the respect shown to those older than us. I like the fact that little sister will tote little brother and ten to him. And the brother will do the same. Even EOD note of the man saying he was not at work because grandma needed him at home. Sounds odd to us Westerners where everything is about work and money. But what can be more important that family.... especially grandma!

LSP123 wrote:

You may win the battle but do beware, as it's really a jungle here and cong ans are not known to help foreigners!

I have a slight advantage there but wont let on what it is on here

Diazo wrote:

@LSP123
  Perhaps what I have said in much of this discourse makes me sound jaded against VN and it's culture. I apologize to all if it sounds that way. Perhaps I should interspurce some positives that I do like about the culture. But it was never intended to put anyone down. As the title said it was intended to speak to the cultural differences.
  But I like the fact that VN does not have a huge social safety net and everyone must man an oar and row. I like the fact that family sticks together and takes care of family. I like the respect shown to those older than us. I like the fact that little sister will tote little brother and ten to him. And the brother will do the same. Even EOD note of the man saying he was not at work because grandma needed him at home. Sounds odd to us Westerners where everything is about work and money. But what can be more important that family.... especially grandma!

Your job!
If you can't be bothered to call in and say that you wont be coming to work, then get your granny to do it.

eodmatt wrote:

Diazo wrote:

@LSP123
  Perhaps what I have said in much of this discourse makes me sound jaded against VN and it's culture. I apologize to all if it sounds that way. Perhaps I should interspurce some positives that I do like about the culture. But it was never intended to put anyone down. As the title said it was intended to speak to the cultural differences.
  But I like the fact that VN does not have a huge social safety net and everyone must man an oar and row. I like the fact that family sticks together and takes care of family. I like the respect shown to those older than us. I like the fact that little sister will tote little brother and ten to him. And the brother will do the same. Even EOD note of the man saying he was not at work because grandma needed him at home. Sounds odd to us Westerners where everything is about work and money. But what can be more important that family.... especially grandma!

Your job!
If you can't be bothered to call in and say that you wont be coming to work, then get your granny to do it.

Damn grannie, always causing trouble, and that sick buffalo seems to come up a lot.

Oh I don't disagree. But I see it through Western eyes. I would have done the same as you EOD. But I can see that perhaps they view family as paramount to everything.

I have a grandm issue also that I have not yielded to either. She thinks I am going to raise my child the way she says I can. I can't play with him. He can't be in the room when she eats or does her exercises. I told my wife, it is my child and not your grandma's and she will never treat me like that. Now I guess that IS a culture thing here. But it ain't happening in this kings castle.

Diazo wrote:

Oh I don't disagree. But I see it through Western eyes. I would have done the same as you EOD. But I can see that perhaps they view family as paramount to everything.

Yes and  understand that too. But when they sign an employment contract, they expect to squeeze every thing they can out of it.

I just expect them to comply with the terms of the contract.

There was an American bloke who used to post on here who was a manager for a Vn owned company. He told me that one Friday he told his department managers that he would hold a meeting at 09:00 sharp on the following Monday. One of the managers murmered ... "But I might not be back from home town by then".

Diazo wrote:

I have a grandm issue also that I have not yielded to either. She thinks I am going to raise my child the way she says I can. I can't play with him. He can't be in the room when she eats or does her exercises. I told my wife, it is my child and not your grandma's and she will never treat me like that. Now I guess that IS a culture thing here. But it ain't happening in this kings castle.

Yep, sometimes you have to put your foot down. I have encountered a few things that I have been told are "cultural" issues. However I have occasionally said "Bollux".

Diazo wrote:

These people will get in line if you tell them the line to get into

Sounds like you would have made a great colonial overseer.

#92 - Ciambella, you will be pleased to note that the railway timetables still refer to SAIGON.  There is a 'Saigon Hotel' just 300 metres from Hanoi railway station, made me chuckle when I first saw it. For many years, until maybe only three years ago, the Saigon post office had no place name name, only "Post Office" in large lettering. Now Ho Chi Minh has been added is small lettering.

Ciambella wrote:

@Ralph: Tiger/Monkey/Snake/Pig: one of the four combinations that would more than likely end in conflict.

Are they still not married to one another?

This monkey is still married to his snake for(later this month) 46 years. But, we are "war buddies" and served in a war together.

70 years old wrote:

This monkey is still married to his snake for(later this month) 46 years. But, we are "war buddies" and served in a war together.

The tie that binds you and Mrs E. together, no man can put asunder.

Some of the nice cultural differences here in Vietnam are the lack of guns, and general safety. There are some countries in the West where every school has a gun toting police officer to protect the teachers from the students. Here you can watch them deliver money to an ATM or bank and no machine gun mounted trucks or guards carrying guns.

And although you would think road rage would flourish here all stay quite calm. In some Western countries you can be killed because you forgot your turn signal. Ah the bliss of living in paradise. And so many here want to immigrate to the land of the insane!!!

My pet hate for years in Vietnam was the suicidal behaviour of other motor bike riders. It didn't bother me if THEY wanted to kill themselves, but it did bother me when they wanted to take ME with them.

I felt less than safe when one minibus driver insisted on driving all the way up the escarpment from Thap Cham on the wrong side of the road.
A visiting Australian friend and I was discussing this over several bia hois, when right in front of us was a head-on collision between two motorcycles, one of which was driving on the wrong side of the road at night. And I've lost count of the number or bus and truck wrecks from head-on crashes.

Each year the official road injury and death figures fall, although the number of vehicles on the road has trebled in the last fifteen years. Amazing, isn't it. The authorities fudge the figures.

One of the loveliest cultural differences between Vietnam and .... Is the "Dawn Chorus". If you have ever had a stunningly beautiful Vn girl stay the night with you, you will understand exactly what I mean, in the morning.

Not sure what that "chorus" sounds like. But with my ex-wife I woke up to a choirs of problems everyday that were never a problem this never had a solution. And to tell you the truth I am glad the chorus has been silenced.

Diazo wrote:

Not sure what that "chorus" sounds like. But with my ex-wife I woke up to a choirs of problems everyday that were never a problem this never had a solution. And to tell you the truth I am glad the chorus has been silenced.

Where did you bury her?

Sorry, forgot to say, The Dawn Chorus: There are two versions, male and female. Both consist of noisily clearing the throat and lungs of phlegm and hawking it out. Then there's the clearing of the nasal passages by noisily snuffling it backwards into the throat and then hawking and producing a dockyard oyster.

Finally the grand crescendo of gagging noises as the toothbrush is thrust as far down the throat as possible.

In UK, the morning chorus is usually one of birdsong.

WOW you found one that brushes their teeth! Just kidding. Ciambella was trying to make a case for the great dental hygiene here I think. Obviously she has not sat next to one in public transportation. Or in a barbers chair and that nasty rotten teeth,  dragon breath just overwhelms   you. Sometimes I wish I had a gas mask.

Diazo wrote:

WOW you found one that brushes their teeth! Just kidding. Ciambella was trying to make a case for the great dental hygiene here I think. Obviously she has not sat next to one in public transportation. Or in a barbers chair and that nasty rotten teeth,  dragon breath just overwhelms   you. Sometimes I wish I had a gas mask.

Yes that can be a problem. I have on occasion when someone has commented on the fact that I have a beard "Oh you hairy like monkey". responded "oh you have rotten teeth like dead person". They usually laugh.

My wife is meticulous about cleaning her teeth. First thing in the morning, after breakfast, lunch, dinner, supper and at any time in between, before a nap, after a nap.

Like many Asian women she also showers before everything and after everything. Makes a mockery of the western habit of showering once a year whether we need it or not.*





*That was a joke.

Oh I joke. My wife brushed her teeth regularly. And I rather suspect the bad odor is from decay and pariodontal disease. But boy, some come at you with a torch of bad breath. Not the first poor country I have witnessed it.

I was just told that it is customary here for the mother to keep a child away from the father for the first 3 years of the child's life . The mother is the only one able to protect the child. Is this true?

No, it's definitely not true.  Even back in the days when I was still a child, fathers were physically involved in the care of their children. 

Before I learned to crawl, I was always on father's lap while he was reading or conversing with visitors.  I don't remember it, of course, but that's what mother and my older siblings have been telling me for many decades.

In the '50s, '60s, and '70s, my older brothers and brothers-in-law often woke up for the 2 AM feeding and paced the floor to put their babies back to sleep.  One of my nieces (she's 53 now) was a colicky baby.  Her father, with her on his shoulder, walked up and down the street in the compound every night, hoping against hope that cool air would have helped with her fussing.  It didn't, but that was the scene I saw every night for the first several months after she was born.

Ciambella:  You should know by now that Diazo's situation is, to say the least, unique.   At the same time of course Diazo needs to recognize that his family experiences in Vietnam are perhaps like no other.

THIGV wrote:

Diazo wrote:

These people will get in line if you tell them the line to get into

Sounds like you would have made a great colonial overseer.

Certainly not. I temper harshness with severity.

That was for Diazo based on what he wrote.