Immigration and Overstay Issues

Guineo Verde wrote:

... to the laws created in 2003 by what is now the PRM, and ignored by the PLD for many years while they were in power.

The PRM is not a new name of the PRD which still exists. It just did not contest Presidential elections in 2016 and 2020.

You might have me on a "technicality" there. 

The PLD did start the enforcement of that 2003 laws in the beginning of 2018, it is to say a year and a half before Abinader was sworn in. The pandemic froze the actions but not the will.

I agree that things were about to change and then a virus escaped from Wuhan Labs in China causing things to refocus. I doubt the few thousand that overstay will ever be a big issue. But, you never know....

In the years 2000, 2001 and 2002 it was still possible to live in the DR without any document. It was not only possible, it was normal. I met people at the disco telling me "look, I live here without residency, the police know it, but they do not care. In the DR you can do what you want". The police officers were in the same disco drinking with expats. The 2003 laws address this state of fact.

I know people with over 1 Million USD in property that live here full time without legal residency.. Will that ever bite them in the butt?  Maybe never, but would you do it?

Why did DGM just post a notice?  About an old forgotten and ignored law?

You break any aspect of the law and they can penalize you economically and that covers tourists as defined by the law who exceed their permitted stay here defined by the law.

Break the law and the various penalties both economic and personal are defined in the DGM resolution referred above and maybe airlines have got the message immigration officers can refuse entry to those without a return ticket and fine them and make them repatriate.

And they can change the economic penalties at anytime and it is 7 years exactly since they last raised the tariffs for overstay.

7 years since the raised the overstay fines?  Well it is about time then..

If they are going to keep these fines in place, they need to be punitive!

windeguy wrote:

I know people with over 1 Million USD in property that live here full time without legal residency.. Will that ever bite them in the butt?  Maybe never, but would you do it?

I do not know what I would do if I was someone else 

The number of people with over 1 Million USD in property is totally insignificant and moreover irrelevant, we are not talking about them. You are bringing it into the conversation to make diversion.

Anyway, the 2018-2020 attempt to enforce the law came on time to calm down the anger of the Dominicans before the elections. Otherwise we would maybe have had another type of President ... Did you follow the campaign in Spanish ? Did you get what some candidates were saying ?

windeguy wrote:

Why did DGM just post a notice?  About an old forgotten and ignored law?

To notify it to people like you, I assume. :-)

Just wanting to add my perspective as a Canadian.  We have been trying to get approved for a Retiree Visa and are still pending approval, yet we are flying out this Saturday.  We have sold everything we own, quit our jobs early, and have the funds to live in the DR.  The DR application is very geared to information provided by Americans.  We have been working with the best immigration lawyer and have paid a lot of money, yet the process has still been a struggle at best.  We are living off of monthly investment income as we are not yet old enough to collect our Canada Pensions and this is proving to be much more difficult.  Some American contacts have said, open a "fake" business that pays your pension, it's not that easy in Canada, the laws are very different.  And an annuity, earns piddly squat compared to our investments.  I would understand if one could not prove the income to live there, but really, it's not like one could apply for social assistance in the DR if they had no money, so how would we be a strain on the system.  If we are paying rent or buying, spending money there, paying taxes, then why do they need to make it so difficult.  The Dominican Consulate/Ministry has made many changes mid-application and we are jumping through hoops so that we don't have to be there illegally.  We are just very frustrated with the whole process at this point.  Hence, I understand why so many people choose to stay there illegally.  I do not want to be one of these people, but my options are dwindling now with no where else to turn.

Guineo Verde wrote:

windeguy wrote:

I know people with over 1 Million USD in property that live here full time without legal residency.. Will that ever bite them in the butt?  Maybe never, but would you do it?

I do not know what I would do if I was someone else 

The number of people with over 1 Million USD in property is totally insignificant and moreover irrelevant, we are not talking about them. You are bringing it into the conversation to make diversion.

Anyway, the 2018-2020 attempt to enforce the law came on time to calm down the anger of the Dominicans before the elections. Otherwise we would maybe have had another type of President ... Did you follow the campaign in Spanish ? Did you get what some candidates were saying ?

windeguy wrote:

Why did DGM just post a notice?  About an old forgotten and ignored law?

To notify it to people like you, I assume. :-)

I am a Dominican Citizen. I follow the local news the best I can.  Notifying me is the reason? I think not.

Just like any other politicians in the world, I don't believe a word until I see results.

And you totally missed the meaning of my question as to why someone would put at risk where they live to be here illegally. But that is fine.   I asked what you would do if it was you, not someone else, by the way. No diversion intended. There are people that overstay "forever" as if that will never matter. Fore sure there are not many like them who have such a massive investment here.

So, after skimming through all these informative posts I have 1 question...
Is it possible to get residency before yur 30 day visa expires?

You can ask me anything you like

So, we' re not rich or investors, or anything like that. Just moving to DR because we are tired of the US and its racism. I've already found housing. We are looking to find out all info concerning residency. I am retired with a nice little income monthly that will be more than adequate in DR. My wife is planning on working there. Any info that you can provide would be helpful to us.

Please read the Residency 2020 thread.

There is up to date information there which will avoid you having to return home to start the residency application.

Ask your residency questions there.

Is that the “getting it done” thread?

Yes. The recommended lawyer Lishali has posted details.

We should keep this thread on overstay related matters.

There is so much happening daily because of the Haiti crisis and Haitians illegally here in DR and this could have wider knock on impacts sooner on all undocumented foreigners as they impose new controls. More coming on Monday we are told.

ok thankyou

Welcome to the forums. Yes please read the residency thread

It's not possible to get residency in 30 days. You must go home and start the process there not here.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming!   

***

This is the English forum.  Thanks

windeguy wrote:

I know people with over 1 Million USD in property that live here full time without legal residency.. Will that ever bite them in the butt?  Maybe never, but would you do it?

Why did DGM just post a notice?  About an old forgotten and ignored law?

Because as PLD ignored the law also ignored that they must prepare the reglamentations for that law, without this part the law could not work, and untill now with PRM - Luis Abinader worked on to prepare those rules and signed to pass it to make it work.

Riva31 wrote:

windeguy wrote:

I know people with over 1 Million USD in property that live here full time without legal residency.. Will that ever bite them in the butt?  Maybe never, but would you do it?

Why did DGM just post a notice?  About an old forgotten and ignored law?

Because as PLD ignored the law also ignored that they must prepare the reglamentations for that law, without this part the law could not work, and untill now with PRM - Luis Abinader worked on to prepare those rules and signed to pass it to make it work.

I am aware that the people who created the immigration laws in 2003/2004 are the ones back in power after many years of the PLD.  With the establishment of the new biometric data offices they are focusing again on the Haitians now that the pandemic has become endemic and they can think about another thing. 

As for other illegals, who knows if anything will be done.

windeguy wrote:

Riva31 wrote:

windeguy wrote:

I know people with over 1 Million USD in property that live here full time without legal residency.. Will that ever bite them in the butt?  Maybe never, but would you do it?

Why did DGM just post a notice?  About an old forgotten and ignored law?

Because as PLD ignored the law also ignored that they must prepare the reglamentations for that law, without this part the law could not work, and untill now with PRM - Luis Abinader worked on to prepare those rules and signed to pass it to make it work.

I am aware that the people who created the immigration laws in 2003/2004 are the ones back in power after many years of the PLD.  With the establishment of the new biometric data offices they are focusing again on the Haitians now that the pandemic has become endemic and they can think about another thing. 

As for other illegals, who knows if anything will be done.

We could say Haitians are 99% of ilegals in Dominican Republic, so that why all can looks like is focusing over them, Public Healths shows statistic about services providing to them and is alarming that babes delivery are now 29% from Haitians and 60% Dominicans in public hospitals, and not counting other services with appoiments with the doctors.

Lets see what more will come from the goverment to cut the increasing amount of Haitians coming.

Let's get this topic back on track! This is about overstays of visas, not Haitians who are here illegally. We have other active threads to discuss that.

traveling from Canada to Las Terrenas I would like to stay for 36 day will it be a prob of over stay visa what best thing to do before traveling?
Thks

Before travelling you can do nothing. Once here you can apply online for the over stay or just pay at the airport when you leave.

If you live here or own property why not have residency? I have a cedula and residency its easy. This is one of the only or only country that allows this overstays.  Most countries will not allow it. Its theur country and we are visitors.  The argument "they need us because we spend " is a non issue. The real money comes from tourism not us shopping at Jumbo. So get residency its easy and the right thing to do

jaya108 wrote:

If you live here or own property why not have residency? I have a cedula and residency its easy. This is one of the only or only country that allows this overstays.  Most countries will not allow it. Its theur country and we are visitors.  The argument "they need us because we spend " is a non issue. The real money comes from tourism not us shopping at Jumbo. So get residency its easy and the right thing to do

Respectfully disagree. It's not "easy" unless you're retired and/or have a passive income.

AlaPlaya wrote:

jaya108 wrote:

If you live here or own property why not have residency? I have a cedula and residency its easy. This is one of the only or only country that allows this overstays.  Most countries will not allow it. Its theur country and we are visitors.  The argument "they need us because we spend " is a non issue. The real money comes from tourism not us shopping at Jumbo. So get residency its easy and the right thing to do

Respectfully disagree. It's not "easy" unless you're retired and/or have a passive income.

It is more of a challenge now than when I did it. That is for sure.

https://migracion.gob.do/en/?servicios-ca=/residence

Reality is that it is somewhat harder now then it was years ago.

However understand it is not your RIGHT to just show up and live here.  The overstay is a workaround. IF you own property here get legal. IF you live and work here get legal.  IF you cannot get legal well then you are on borrowed time I think.  I do not know when it is coming but its my opinion that it will come!   Enforcement of the current rules is already starting.

Will this gov't  create  longer term stay tourist visas? I hope so.
Will this gov't continue to increase enforcement? I think so.
Will this gov't  change the rules?  Likely to happen.

Again just my opinion.

Countries set residency criteria to target those they want to accept as residents. DR is no different. If you don't meet the criteria it is unfortunate but indicates you are not really wanted.

Have you ever thought about the situation of Dominicans who want to go live in other countries? They just can't meet the requirements in almost every country.

As pointed out above DR residency requirements have got tougher and probably will get tougher still going forward as more and more people want to live in the tropics.

There will come a point when DR does apply in full it's Immigration Law and the overstay economic penalty may not be the only penalty that is applied to those that overstay illegally. The overstay tariff will never go, but may be part of a larger penalty.

I belive jaya108 is making a fair and probably very sensible observation in current times when residency is easy with benefits and implementation of the Immigration Law in full is incomplete, but regularly stated by the current government as essential and planned.

I am not sure it is easy or cheap. I just did it but I do think it is the right thing to do.

You have to look at it by a governmental stance they bring in so much money with overstay fees. So let's say they start enforcing it and saying you have to be a resident here they probably would not cover the profit that they would have lost by charging over fines. They're very smart the way they do it I give them that if you stay 3 to 6 months you pay whatever 80 US dollars not sure there's that cost now but that and the people that are staying here longer are injecting money into the economy and the community so it's a win-win if they leave it the way it is but I think if they do change it until you have to have a residency Visa or something like that I think they would lose a lot of profit from lost of the fines . Plus the majority of people that rent here long term and don't apply for residency paperwork when loss because there's expects would just travel to other countries that are more friendly to experts and more accommodating. So I think the government leaving the way it is is probably the smartest and most  profitable and logical. Just my opinion and someone who's been coming here for over a decade. Those people that are staying here for 6 months or in so much money into the local economy just imagine if that was all gone

Overstay fees average under US 100 bucks!  It's really not very much. When you compare to what all the other tourism brings in. 

Instead they should consider a couple more visa categories:
31 to 90 day visa US 99
31 to 180 days maybe US 249

Apply in advance, show your return tickets and you have enough $$ to support your stay and done!  If I was in charge, which I am not, I would implement something similar!

Same argument that had been brainwashed into those that overstay illegally about their economic value and way overstated.

The issue is that illegal overstay allows some undesirables to come and hide in DR and that is bad for criminality and for image.

Mayne not you but you indirectly support this problem for DR by your actions.

With the 120 day staying extension there are only a few of those foreigners perhaps wanted through DR immigration policy that struggle to do the right thing and be legal. They are the 4 to 6 month snowbirds.

Where do you apply for an overstay?
Thanks in advance

phannigan
You’re dreaming… overstay charges are insignificant to this country

Think again…..7-8 million tourists a year with hotels etc…
That’s where the meat and gravy is

The interlopers are just that…. Interlopers

Exactly! I made this point when I began this topic. The money comes from tourism not people spending money at Jumbo. The argument is, we buy homes etc but that money goes to a select group and stays within. The Dominican country does not depend on overstay fees or the money we spend.

I can see both sides of the argument

There are no two sides to this argument from a Dominican perspective.

They either have immigration control or not.

The last 20 years surely tells them not having immigration control has damaged the country.

There is an easy solution and that is to make illegal stays more punatative economically - say 50/100usd each month or part thereof. Keep a low fee for the 120 day staying extension though of say 20 usd month or less. Encourage legality.

phannigan75 wrote:

I can see both sides of the argument

The side I see is what the law says.  Either enforce the law or change the law.
Don't work outside it.

Perhaps phannigan doesn't know that overstaying is illegal....

Just because you can pay to leave..is confusing.... overstaying is illegal
That's the law - as I know it