Attitude to the mentally ill

I agree that Bulgarians need to change their attitudes towards mental health, and if you look closely you will see that progress is being made, although slow.

I am curious where you get the idea of "mental illness was then and still is actually higher in Bulgaria than almost any country..." Mental illness is very under-reported here, so I would be interested where you found statistics listing the rate as higher than anywhere else, or even a report that could give realistic estimates within this country to compare to others.

Hi everyone,

I really appreciate your concern towards mental health in Bulgaria and would gladly help in finding the truth and bringing some satisfaction to the hungry souls. Anyway, let me just briefly highlight the basic theories here:

1. Unless Bulgaria can lose the draconian views on mental illness that I feel is a legacy of the communist regime and the propaganda Bulgaria was fed of socialism being the prefect paradise without problems when in reality hiding the mentally ill in asylums did not change the fact mental illness was then and still is actually higher in Bulgaria than almost any country...

That was said by a person, originating from the UK. No information of sources, that led to this conclusion, except for observations on only one person in .... 7 mln. Absolutely no information on any education and or experience in the field.

2. I agree that Bulgarians need to change their attitudes towards mental health, and if you look closely you will see that progress is being made, although slow.

Here's a statement by an american, again no data sources, neither relevant education/experience. Anyway it looks more positive than the opposite, though the general conclusion might be totally wrong.

3. And finally a person from Greece:

Well, can anyone be surprised? Beside the lack of resources and culture on the subject as many others...as handicap, general public health etc, it's full of people with methylation releted disorders. Alcohol, drugs, gambling addiction should ring a bell.
I've seen myself people without any kind of assistance or therapy. Often even kids.
It could also be a remnants of turkish domination culture as in islam due to extreme imbreding mental illness and other conditions are rampant and simply ignored as practical solution.


Again no sign of credible data sources, no relevant education or experience. But otherwise quite convinced and defending a strictly negative line of view.

Basically it was fun reading all this. Really!!!

Anyway, let's see what do the professionals say:

"Here are the countries with the greatest burden of disease for mental and behavioral disorders, in terms of most years of life lost due to disability or death adjusted for population size, according to WHO."

OVERALL         DEPRESSION    ANXIETY    ALCOHOL & DRUG USE
China              China            China              China
India              India            India              U.S.
U.S.                       U.S.            U.S.                      India
Brazil               Brazil             Brazil              Russia
Russia             Bangladesh    Indonesia      Brazil
Indonesia    Russia            Pakistan              Nigeria
Pakistan            Indonesia    Bangladesh      Pakistan
Nigeria            Nigeria             Iran                     Ukraine
Bangladesh    Pakistan            Nigeria              Mexico
Mexico    I         ran                    Germany              Bangladesh

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr … -countries


Information is said to have been updated as of 2018.


Basically Bulgaria is not here, but the USA is almost everywhere on place No. 3

Strange, eh ?!!

And here's a map of depression rates accross the world, as of 2013. UK beats all!!! In negative terms.






full article here

2016/2018



Any comment? Well the USA, UK and Greece all outperform Bulgaria ... some drastically. In negative terms.

more info here:

The same is here:



author is the same as above

the same article

same article

same article

same article

O.K. I think that's enough.

Anyway, I will gladly read any other ideas how to improve the situation in Bulgaria, as long as they are not taking us to the positions of the USA, UK or even Greece.

Really!

Hi,
It was figures from the World Health organisation (WHO) that estimates Bulgaria contributes nearly 22% to the worlds 'neuropsychiatric burden'.
A report by globallyminded.org claims that 15 -17% of Bulgarians suffer with depression.
Bulgarian minister for Health dept figures show little to no funds are allocated for mental health (1% approx).
Personally I visited the pychriatric hospital in Varna and spoke to patients and staff. Although this is one of the leading mental health facilities and has been heavily invested in by EU and private investors with all sorts of wonderful claims on its success. In reality it was not much improved from the communist asylums. Most were locked up and sedated for the majority of the day with no proper diagnostic processes followed and lack of skilled staff with the ratio of patient to professional mental health Dr or pychriatric expert meaning that patients were seen as little as once a week. Patients were in the same clothes and without access to shower or bath for 3 weeks in some cases.
None were aware of their rights under EU law and their human rights such as right to apply for an independent assessment of their mental health where they had been involuntarily admitted. more often than not patients were admitted by police who offered little explanation for the reason and usually stating they were a danger to others or self with no details. in some cases the police had beaten the patient prior to admission and the bruises etc were not questioned and not mentioned and although it was known by staff to be wrong, it was the norm and even if they wanted to complain, there is no process for it.
Some patients had been there for a longer time than probably needed as fully aware that after being associated with mental illness they are ostracized and are unlikely to get work or help from the community they are no longer seen as part of. They prefer to stay in a hospital which is more like a prison feeling safer behind the bars and out of the way!

Absolutely hit the nail on the head in every way!
Especially when it comes to sweeping it under the carpet! Bulgarians still have the mind set that its better to look the other way and for a culture that I thought was all about family and community values, in reality its about projecting and protecting the image of this idea proudly, this pride being part of the reason why they prefer to live in denial rather than try to change it which is a defeatist attitude that has allowed these issues and corruption to continue to be wide spread.

There's an old English saying " An argument sharpens the mind!" which I find extremely true and ... even modern. 

However, it really has its shortcomings, and one of these is what exactly do the people want to achieve. So if you really want to express your opinion, that there's a huge MENTAL DISORDERS problem in Bulgaria - then no one can change your mind. Really. 

There's also another saying "An argument has never convinced anyone of anything!" Which is also soooo true!!!

This is just like your case, when instead of taking a look at the sources and the information behind the data visualisation one decides to attack the pictures as simple infographics. Really cool!!! 

However you could have taken a look at the whole article ( I've taken care to place links) or even just explore the sources of information, used to gater the information, summarize it and visualize it in an aggregated picture. Ever thought that there could be sth. behind the pictures ?

What I mean is that I have not denied the existence of any health related problems in my country. Neither any attitude related issues. And even never mentioned anything about an open air asylum or a happy exclusion. I've just presented foreign views on the global situation, stating a very low occurrence of these problems in Bulgaria, compared to many other countries.

There's an interesting view on the problem stating that highest number of psychiatricians can be found in places with highest concentrations of mental disorders. Interesting coincidence with the UK, USA, Germany .... visual info.

There's also a study by an Italian scholar, showing that one nation has 6 tmies higher rates of mental disorders than the other countries. I am sure you do not know which one is it. But I know.
I am also pretty sure that you will find highest concentrations of air conditioning systems in Italy than in Switzerland, but does this mean that the people in Switzerland are poorer and cannot afford to buy airconditioners?!

Almost forgot to place the sources of information behind the "infographics". I am sure you will appreciate this. Also I am pretty sure you will understand why I decided to post visuals exactly from this article, though there are also extracts from two more.

Ferrari et al. (2015). The Burden Attributable to Mental and Substance Use Disorders as Risk Factors for Suicide: Findings from the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010. PLOS ONE. Available online.

Prince, M., Patel, V., Saxena, S., Maj, M., Maselko, J., Phillips, M. R., & Rahman, A. (2007). No health without mental health. The Lancet, 370(9590), 859-877. Available online.

Brooks, S. J., Rask-Andersen, M., Benedict, C., & Schiöth, H. B. (2012). A debate on current eating disorder diagnoses in light of neurobiological findings: is it time for a spectrum model?. BMC psychiatry, 12(1), 76. Available online.

Risks to mental health: an overview of vulnerabilities and risk factors (2012). World Health Organization. Available online.

Risks to mental health: an overview of vulnerabilities and risk factors (2012). World Health Organization. Available online.

Kieling, C., Baker-Henningham, H., Belfer, M., Conti, G., Ertem, I., Omigbodun, O., ... & Rahman, A. (2011). Child and adolescent mental health worldwide: evidence for action. The Lancet, 378(9801), 1515-1525. Available online.

Herrman, H., Saxena, S., Moodie, R., & World Health Organization. (2005). Promoting mental health: concepts, emerging evidence, practice: a report of the World Health Organization, Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse in collaboration with the Victorian Health Promotion Foundation and the University of Melbourne. Available online.

Grantham-McGregor, S., Cheung, Y. B., Cueto, S., Glewwe, P., Richter, L., Strupp, B., & International Child Development Steering Group. (2007). Developmental potential in the first 5 years for children in developing countries. The Lancet, 369(9555), 60-70. Available online.

Prince M, Patel V, Saxena S, Maj M, Maselko J, Phillips MR, Rahman A (2007). No health without mental health. The Lancet, 370: 859-877. Available online.

Walker S, Wachs TD, Meeks Gardner J, Lozoff B, Wasserman GA, Pollitt E, Careter JA and the International Child Development Steering Group (2007). Child development: risk factors for adverse outcomes in developing countries. The Lancet, 369: 145-157. Available online.

Walker S, Wachs TD, Grantham-McGregor S, Black M, Nelson C, Huffman C et al (2011). Inequality in early childhood: risk and protective factors for early child development. The Lancet, 378: 1325-1338. Available online.

Walker S, Wachs TD, Meeks Gardner J, Lozoff B, Wasserman GA, Pollitt E, Careter JA and the International Child Development Steering Group (2007). Child development: risk factors for adverse outcomes in developing countries. The Lancet, 369: 145-157. Available online.

Walker S, Wachs TD, Grantham-McGregor S, Black M, Nelson C, Huffman C et al (2011). Inequality in early childhood: risk and protective factors for early child development. The Lancet, 378: 1325-1338. Available online.

Wicks, S., Hjern, A., & Dalman, C. (2010). Social risk or genetic liability for psychosis? A study of children born in Sweden and reared by adoptive parents. American Journal of Psychiatry, 167(10), 1240-1246. Available online.

WHO (2004). Prevention of mental disorders: Effective interventions and policy options. World Health Organization; Geneva, Switzerland. Available online.

Hetherington R, Baistow K, Katz I, Trowell J (2001). The welfare of children with mentally ill parents: Learning from inter-country comparisons. Wiley and Sons; Chichester, UK. Available online.

Matteblat F, Remschmidt H (2008). The children of mentally ill parents. Deutsches Arzteblatt International, 105: 413-418. Available online.

Prince, M., Patel, V., Saxena, S., Maj, M., Maselko, J., Phillips, M. R., & Rahman, A. (2007). No health without mental health. The Lancet, 370(9590), 859-877. Available online.

Ferrari et al. (2015). The Burden Attributable to Mental and Substance Use Disorders as Risk Factors for Suicide: Findings from the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010. PLOS ONE. Available online.

Prince, M., Patel, V., Saxena, S., Maj, M., Maselko, J., Phillips, M. R., & Rahman, A. (2007). No health without mental health. The Lancet, 370(9590), 859-877. Available online.

Yoshimasu, K., Kiyohara, C., Miyashita, K. et al. Environmental Health and Preventative Medicine (2008) 13: 243. Available online.

Arsenault-Lapierre, G., Kim, C., & Turecki, G. (2004). Psychiatric diagnoses in 3275 suicides: a meta-analysis. BMC psychiatry, 4(1), 37. Available online.

Cavanagh, J. T., Carson, A. J., Sharpe, M., & Lawrie, S. M. (2003). Psychological autopsy studies of suicide: a systematic review. Psychological Medicine, 33(3), 395-405. Available online.

Phillips, M. R. (2010). Rethinking the role of mental illness in suicide. American Journal of Psychiatry. Available online.

Conner, K. R., Phillips, M. R., Meldrum, S., Knox, K. L., Zhang, Y., & Yang, G. (2005). Low-planned suicides in China. Psychological Medicine, 35(8), 1197-1204. Available online.

Zhang, J., Xiao, S., & Zhou, L. (2010). Mental disorders and suicide among young rural Chinese: a case-control psychological autopsy study. American Journal of Psychiatry, 167(7), 773-781. Available online.

Yang, G. H., Phililips, M. R., Zhou, M. G., Wang, L. J., Zhang, Y., & Xu, D. (2005). Understanding the unique characteristics of suicide in China: national psychological autopsy study. Biomedical and Environmental Sciences, 18(6), 379. Available online.

Ferrari et al. (2015). The Burden Attributable to Mental and Substance Use Disorders as Risk Factors for Suicide: Findings from the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010. PLOS ONE. Available online.

Ferrari et al. (2015). The Burden Attributable to Mental and Substance Use Disorders as Risk Factors for Suicide: Findings from the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010. PLOS ONE. Available online.

OECD Indicators (2017). Education at a Glance 2017. Available at: http://www.oecd.org/education/education … 91487.htm.

Cipriani, A., Furukawa, T. A., Salanti, G., Chaimani, A., Atkinson, L. Z., Ogawa, Y., ... & Egger, M. (2018). Comparative efficacy and acceptability of 21 antidepressant drugs for the acute treatment of adults with major depressive disorder: a systematic review and network meta-analysis. The Lancet, 391(10128), 1357-1366. Available online.

Whiteford, H., Ferrari, A., & Degenhardt, L. (2016). Global burden of disease studies: implications for mental and substance use disorders. Health Affairs, 35(6), 1114-1120. Available online.

It is by no means an argument or meant to offend anyone!
It is based on findings of the studies carried out by global institutions who are experts in the field of mental illness.
It is also a true account of what I witnessed in Bulgaria being in a relationship with a Bulgarian national who is clearly suffering with mental illness and yet still has been given no help or a proper psychriatric diagnosis despite the fact that he hears voices talking to him through the town on a microphone and speakers that are not even there. Who has also on numerous occasions whilst in a paranoid delusional state, beaten me severely and has made me fear for my life... I have found no help and support and although the current process in these circumstances is to call 112, all that achieved was for him to be beaten up badly too by police who offered no other solution for the heartbreaking situation that I was beaten up because the man is suffering from mental illness and the answer was for them to beat up a mentally ill man....
So im sorry if you do not like what I have said but it sadly is my experience and one that is never going to change unless the Bulgarian culture and denial of it changes.
Please do share your first hand experience in this matter if you have a more positive experience as that is something that would instore faith in me

TDL, I am really sorry to see that you've personally had problems caused by a mentally ill person. Mental illnesses have a very broad aspect and as far as I know "hearing voices" is neither of the most severe, nor one of the ones needing urgent attention and/or treatement. In addition it can be easily concealed by the person that suffers from this.

However, I still insist, that you just cannot draw conclusions for 7 000 000 people based on one single case. Or they will be totally wrong.

In the same line of thoughts, you cannot judge about the Bulgarians, by the crimes done by a gay gypsi in Italy. Totally wrong again. Or deliberately wrong. Most likely the second one.

That is exactly why I have placed visual displays of the most common mental disrders and their distribution worldwide.

As you can see for yourself, Bulgaria ranks far behind almost all other countries in mentall illnesses like depression, bipolar disorders, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders and the overall mentall health disorders. All this is presented by several studies and serious sources like WHO. I really preferr to believe these, than a single study in Bulgaria with unknown financing and purpose. And it surely lacks the comparison level, no matter how unplesant it is for some people.

What is actually the problem here is the rising suicide levels.  Yes, there we're far for the best positions in the world.  In addition I can clearly see more people with mental disorders than some 10 years ago. I guess that's a part of the "positives" from joining the EU, just like in Italy, UK, Germany, France .. etc.

In your case, better find another person to live with because getting a mentally ill person into an institution and providing treatement is strictly regulated in Bulgaria and is judjed on the basis of levels of danger for the society. So if such a person acts normally between other people and does not cause problems there's no direct reason for taking him/her ot an institution or even a doctor. Your case will more likely fall in the domestic violence and that person will be prohibited to come in close distances to you. It is almost the same with crimes caused by JEALOUSY, where the person acts absolutely normally in other conditions.

Anyway, in all cases Bulgaria still seems to be in a far better situation than almost all other countries, regarding the problem and occurence of mental illnesses. And this is shown by foreign studies, not local ones, so one cannot calim any distortion of information on national level.

My conclusions as I stated were as I found; ie. Bulgarians have little to no sympathy for the mentally ill and very little resource for identifying, mitigating, suporting and rehabilating the mentally ill. Yes this is based on the attitudes of the Bulgarian community in which I lived and from the patients and staff that I spoke with in the pychriatric ward at Varna hospital. I have spent over a year trying to find a pychriatrist who has knowledge of the mental illness of schizophrenia and could assess the man privately to get a proper diagnosis and the right treatment. I contacted many people and eventually found a place in Bourgas that was supposed to be a mental health clinic, however they were not able to help as no specialist in schizophrenia and could not refer me to anyone. Eventually the police arrested him and took him to Varna psychiatric hospital where he stayed for 6 weeks and no proper diagnosis or tests were carried out and he was sedated and locked up behind bars until he was released. On returning to his home town, he was ostracized by most and warned by the police to keep a low profile or he would be sent back.
The general attitude being he was a burden in the community!
Now he feels ashamed to leave the house and is still very ill and getting worse but now trying to hide his suffering for fear of being locked up behind bars again!
Therefore I tend to agree with the findings and estimates of the WHO and the globallyminded studies.
I was also convinced of the draconian views on mental illness when the Bulgarian Minister of Health recently commented that the mentally ill should be locked up to reduce crime!
I shall however read the list of info that has been highlighted by K. However I am not looking for evidence that mental illness is more or less prevalent in Bulgaria than other countries as im fully aware of the global challenges. For Example;
one in three have or will suffer with mental illness in the UK but they will have the necessary help they require if they want it and a culture with the attitude towards them getting better and help and support for integration back into the community.
As a Bulgarian, I would be interested to hear K's personal view of mental illness and to give me the details of the hospitals, Mental health facilities and pychriatric specialists in Bulgaria that have eluded me so far!

TLD, you might be right in some cases, but that does not justify the generalized approach. I am not going into any more details, that is a very specialized topic and I do not feel prepared enoug to comment all the factors that alleggedly led to this situation (if at all). Regardelss of the fact that I was born and raised here in Bulgaria and probably know better Bulgarian history and mentality than many other people. So I preferr to leave them to comment on the implications of the Turkish yoke and the Communist regime. I am pretty sure they know almost nothing for both of these.

Anyway, since you're speaking about the Minister of Health, may remind you that he is with a financial background. Moreover, the reasons because of which he is taking this position are exactly of a financial character. I myself always apply a very sceptic and critical approach to anything spoken by a politician.

As far the schisophrenia is concerned, though I know one or two people suffering from this, none of them has any such anti social behavoiur as your friend. They are both very calm and good hearted and as far as I know it is more like an internal suffering for them.

So what I would suggest (it applies for any kind of medical services) is to search for a proven professional with high success rate and then consult him/her. My GP has a second medical profile as a psychiatrist, so I can ask him for a good professional in Varna, but he might recommend s.o. in Sofia since he works here.

Would be helpful to know what is your final goal, but I think this is more for a PM.

free2go, YES I am paid for my posts!!!    please ask expat.com for the exact amount

and YES "I just enjoy arguing at the point that all matters" .... but only with people that keep attacking my country, my nation and antynig that is valuable here. And only when I know they are wrong.  That doesn't suite you, I know.

As far as "intellectual honesty" is concerned, did you check the sources of information behind the "infographics" ot that is absolutely inacceptable for you ?

YES I really consider "a  non honest or healthy intention of yours" when you try to draw conclusions wor the entire nation on the basis of a single person, how he has been treated by a couple of doctors or beaten by a couple of policemen.

This is just like if I try to draw conclusions for all the Italians only on the basis of Silvio Berlusconi, or only on the basis of the people in Southern Italy that have organized a MODERN SLAVERY FARMS, or even if I try to see the reason because in every country the word used to describe organized crime is MAFIA. And NO, I do not think in that way.

And again about "intellectual dishonestY" - " It's about the policies, legislation, practical handling, humanity, social stigma, civic sense and morality. " I guess you can show me some kind of a policy paper, or a legislation act, or even practical handling instructions that show directions to beat mentally ill people ?!  or to imprison them ??!!  That is not into Bulgarian legislation, I can assure you.  Though it happens some times. Do you think the US police has instructions to shoot black people ?????


Gypsises ..... and comments from Bulgarians. Shall I remind you, that gypsies kill people here to. They rape, they rob, they steal, they beat, they terrorize people. A couple of years ago, a gypsy gang attacked a pair of old people that I know. In attempt to steal money, they threatend them with a chainsaw ..... to cut them alive. 75 years old people!!!!

I really think you know very little about what gypsies do hre in Bulgaria, how they are protected and noureshed by the politicialns here, and I am also pretty sure that you know almost nothing of the origins of gypsies, and how and why they were settled here by the turks.

So I do not need win this argument because this will soon turn into a war here in Bulgaria, and even the last days it was really on the verge of starting, just like several years ago in Katunitza, or with the gypsy radical islam followers in Pazardjik and with the girl killed in Tarnovo and many other cases.

Any way, I do not expect you to understand. You just know too little about this and choose to look at the part that suits you.  This is not intelectuall honesty.

Basically the foreigners coming to Bulgaria fall into two subcategories - the first part of them is curious to explore, to learn new things, to see everything, to enjoy this way of life, to make friends and to develop relationshsips. They seach for culture, for music, for art, for history and for beautiful scenery, mountains, seashores, villages, towns.

To differ from them, the second part is from people that tries to judge, to accuse, to find everything negative, to attack, to break the established rules. They think that no laws are not valid for them, that this country owes sth. to them and try to make profit from everything here. They try to act more or less like the turkish invaders and probably like supernation that has rights to do everything and is not obliged for nothing. Just like kicking the maid in a Bulgarian hotel and breaking her jaw .... by a male foreigner.  These people are searching for alcohol tourism, for cheap accomodation, for prostitutes, for illegal business, for junk food and for stupid experience.

When you have come to live in this country, at least you're expected to abide the laws, to show some respect for the people living here, to try to learn sth. about the history, to make a good impression and in best case scenario to make friends.

Judging, accusing, searching for s.o. to blame, complaining and doing sth. against the laws and morale is definately not accepted, not valued and even not tolerated. Not only here. Everywhere. Those people people not only look very small ... they are actually very small, both in intellectual and in emotional aspect.

But that seems to be far from your understanding.

I've always tried to help foreigners, coming to Bulgaria, adwising the on every possible aspect of life here. In very few cases I've enteresd an argument, and this has always been with people from the second category of people. Believe me, I will never tolerate direct or indirect insulting of the people living here, of the the history and culture of this country. 


And YES, you can decide whether I recive payment for helping foreigners or for not tolerating insulting behaviour or conversations here. Judging on that will have a direct relation with your intellectual honesty .. or the opposite.

You have just confirmed my impressions that you're trying to deliberately insult the people living here. No idea why, but please note, that you're free2go to whichever country you like, and in no way obliged to live in Bulgaria. While living here and insulting the people here is in no way an intellectual honesty.

Anyway, since you keep insulting the people here, I will leave a short comment, based on your input, which is not aimed to insult you, but only to question the reasoning for your conclusions.

So it was really interesting for me to see the "average world IQ map by country" as of  2006 by Richard Lynn & Tatu Vanhanen. Though it is super stupid to try to generalize the IQ levels for an entire country, I will point out some parts of what you've quoted:

The direct implication of what you have posted here is
IQ in Italy for 2006 is 102.
IQ in Bulgaria is 93. So Bulgarians are less clever!
Great! That is why Italy has greater national income than Bulgaria, eh ?! 

Now let's look at newer numbers, same scholars (Lynn & Vanhanen), 2012:
Italy: 96
Bulgaria: 93
We can see a direct decrease in Italy with 6 points for just 6 years (one per year) and stable levels in Bulgaria.
That greatly corresponds with the decrease of the national income in Italy since 2008 but in no way reflects the increase of national income in Bulgaria.

https://jakubmarian.com/average-iq-in-e … untry-map/

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MKTGNIITA646NWDB

and I cannot miss the opportunity to place your favourite infographics: 



Nice, eh ?

So for 6 years Italy has both decreased the IQ levels and decreased the National income .... And if we project this tendency, with another 6 years, there's a good number of reasons to expect further decrease for the period between  2012 and 2018. I wouldn't try to place an exact figure (especially since I think generalizing the IQ of an entire nation is just stupid) but will only remind that for the previous period Italy lost 9 points and was just 3 points away from Bulgaria. Moreover, Bulgaria increased its national income for the last two successive periods ( 6 yrs each).

So I will leave you with the updated IQ results per country plus the increase/decrease  of the National income factors so that you can reconsider your conclusions.

Please note, that I GREATELY DISAPPROVE this approach which tries to generalize the IQ levels of a given country and I in no way am trying to insult any nation, by implying that they are less intelligent or have grown more stupid (However I do question the levels of intelligence of the authors of this study! ) . The only reason for writing this is to show how wrong this way of thinking is and how far from truth are your implications.
Besides I think I know enough of statistics and sampling methods to be able to fully disagree with the basis for these conclusions.

And I would recommend taking time to read this:
"Does Italy have the highest IQ and brain size in Europe?"

Anyway, this level of arguing is far from my understanding for civilized and normal so I cannot participate. But just in case you're interested, the levels of Adult IQ for 2017 for Italy are 91 (5 years, decrease of one per year again), and for Bulgaria ..... also 91. Though I do not agree with the calculation method and therefore with the results.

IQ 2017

we should reflect on the music videos broadcast on Bulgarian TV
where there is always
singer, the luxury car, the girl who shows her body and silly music.

Are the Bulgarians all strange characters?
I met many people of the highest intellectual and moral level
but it is not possible to hide that many people have psychological problems.

It would be interesting to do some studies to understand what the real reality is.

francescoita wrote:

we should reflect on the music videos broadcast on Bulgarian TV
where there is always
singer, the luxury car, the girl who shows her body and silly music.

Are the Bulgarians all strange characters?
I met many people of the highest intellectual and moral level
but it is not possible to hide that many people have psychological problems.

It would be interesting to do some studies to understand what the real reality is.

That's a bit different opinion, but o.k. we have let's say 60 TV channels. Those that broadcast music will be approximately 10. Out of these 10 into your categories will fall about 6.

Now take a look at any modern Music TV channel - there's always the luxury car, the long legged girls, the stupid music and texts, especially the RAP songs. I would add the stupid hand movements, the stupid haircuts, the crazy sunglasses, and very often expensive yachts, swimming pools, and even guns and drugs.

So no wonder we have all the same here. Music clips creators do their best to copy what's modern and interesting.

But If you're speaking about the so called "chalga" music, then it is a bit old stuff. It had its peak about 1998 and since then it is on constant decline ... 20 years now. It is far from popular at least for the past 15 yrs. though some parts of the population still like it.

Anyway, I wold preferr to have teenagers listening to chalga, showing their bodies, looking at luxury cars and yachts, rather than the teenagers in many other countries that shoot at their classmates, use drugs, beat foreigners and set cars on fire.

But I guess you're right that many people have psychological problems. I myself can confirm that this is on an increase at least for the past 5 years. On the other hand as you can see from the posts above, Bulgaria has one of the lowest levels in the world for all the common mental disorders like schizophrenia, depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorders, substance use disorders and others.
We do actually have a problem and it is with the rising suicide levels. But noone likes to discuss that.

Conducting a serious study is quite expensive - especially if you aim to encompass all the stratas of the society and with a high levels of certainty. Sampling is quite difficult in certain areas and representation will be difficult to achieve. Besides you will need a serious target and probably EU financing, which means participation of more than one country and comparability of the results.

And yes, Bulgarians are all strange characters, but it all depends on your point of view and the people you choose to meet.

Kristian be clear, here we are not denigrating the Bulgarians, but we are trying to make an objective study.

Which study is not easy at all
and people from different cultures can more easily identify typical characteristics, because they can make comparisons.

If you want I can also make a list of positive features, which I found in the Bulgarians
but I assure you that in Italy those musical channels could not exist.

I'm saying that Italy are all high level people? .....No
there are many lobotomized goats also in Italy
but those musical channels could not have a following!

Consider that even in Italy people are poisoned with vaccines and OGM foods for several years, and therefore the new generations will be more and more with physical and psychological problems.
But this for the Bulgarians has already happened for many decades and is in my opinion at least one of the causes of the fact that many people have mental problems

Because that's all this conversation needs... people claiming that vaccines cause mental problems. <sigh>

kojidae wrote:

Because that's all this conversation needs... people claiming that vaccines cause mental problems. <sigh>

https://www.ageofautism.com/2011/02/new … l#comments

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

No vaccines doesn't cause mental problems! Talking about ignorance.....sigh

error

kojidae wrote:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

here now we can not make a controversy to have to ascertain what is true from what is false
here it is a question of intelligence in knowing how to know the truth

Have not you understood yet that all the institutions and the media system are corrupt?
(Trump also told you this)

And in your opinion, who has power in being able to bribe
a research scientist like this (there are thousands more like him)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmfEAAO9G9o
or a pharmaceutical multinational with revenue equal to the GDP of entire states?

Francescoita,

I am clear enough: It si really impossible to conduct such a study here (I mean the forum) and the results will definately be wrong!

In addition I am working with foreigners from at least 10 different nations and for more than 20 years, do you think I have not identified typical characteristics and stereotypes ?? Especially based on comparisons!

Moreover, I can assure you that Bulgarians living abroad very often show deviations in a negative (less humane aspect) than the people living here. Same is valid for some of foreigners living in Bulgaria vs. living in their own countries.
Music channels do not followers in Italy ?  Don't you have MTV there ?? No luxury cars, no long legged girls, no yachts, no posh stuff ??? Come on ...

Re Vaccines:  No you're not correct. Some vaccines do really cause problems but this is in a very rare occasions - e.g. 1 in 100 000.  In general - vaccines do not cause problems often. We here use the same vaccines that are sold in Italy and Japan for example. There are a few local brands, but most of the production facilities are already bought by  large international companies.
There was really a case, when last year s.o. tried to import Turkish vaccines of a low quality that woul probably cause greater number of problems but that was stopped in the very beginning.

Saying that, I can confirm that one of my relatives suffered from a severe inflammation of one of the nerves soon after taking an antiflu vaccine. But proving the cause for the inflammation is the vaccine is almost impossible.

And that:

"But this for the Bulgarians has already happened for many decades and is in my opinion at least one of the causes of the fact that many people have mental problems"

Said by a person who's not a professional in that field, and if not based on a serious and reconfirmed sudies is just STUPID!

Especially since many studies show that Bulgarians have the lowest levels of mental problems in Europe.

free2go wrote:

yes vaccines give mental illness....the most common is cognitive dissonance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

If you are a parent and need to vaccinate your children in order to get government services you must bend your opinions in order to fit your needs. So yes they are safe as much as your children won't find out what you did to them. And be assured, if not totally handicapped they will find out sooner or later.

you gave a perfect picture of the situation

kristiann wrote:

Francescoita,

I am clear enough: It si really impossible to conduct such a study here (I mean the forum) and the results will definately be wrong!

In addition I am working with foreigners from at least 10 different nations and for more than 20 years, do you think I have not identified typical characteristics and stereotypes ?? Especially based on comparisons!

Moreover, I can assure you that Bulgarians living abroad very often show deviations in a negative (less humane aspect) than the people living here. Same is valid for some of foreigners living in Bulgaria vs. living in their own countries.
Music channels do not followers in Italy ?  Don't you have MTV there ?? No luxury cars, no long legged girls, no yachts, no posh stuff ??? Come on ...

Re Vaccines:  No you're not correct. Some vaccines do really cause problems but this is in a very rare occasions - e.g. 1 in 100 000.  In general - vaccines do not cause problems often. We here use the same vaccines that are sold in Italy and Japan for example. There are a few local brands, but most of the production facilities are already bought by  large international companies.
There was really a case, when last year s.o. tried to import Turkish vaccines of a low quality that woul probably cause greater number of problems but that was stopped in the very beginning.

Saying that, I can confirm that one of my relatives suffered from a severe inflammation of one of the nerves soon after taking an antiflu vaccine. But proving the cause for the inflammation is the vaccine is almost impossible.

And that:

"But this for the Bulgarians has already happened for many decades and is in my opinion at least one of the causes of the fact that many people have mental problems"

Said by a person who's not a professional in that field, and if not based on a serious and reconfirmed sudies is just STUPID!

Especially since many studies show that Bulgarians have the lowest levels of mental problems in Europe.

Kristian
you still believe in these studies, as a supreme and incontrovertible truth
but is not so
these studies, very often, have the specific function of manipulating the masses,
starting from the intellectual and reference classes, to reach the whole people

have you ever seen statistical studies on politics
when all the polls are in favor of politicians favored by power
they are incorrect
but have they influenced the masses?

But you only need to carefully observe the Bulgarian people
to see that so many people do not work the brain well


if only a few children die after a vaccine
it does not mean
that the vaccine does not cause damage, even to the majority of children who continue to survive

francescoita wrote:

kristiann wrote:

Francescoita,

I am clear enough: It si really impossible to conduct such a study here (I mean the forum) and the results will definately be wrong!

In addition I am working with foreigners from at least 10 different nations and for more than 20 years, do you think I have not identified typical characteristics and stereotypes ?? Especially based on comparisons!

Moreover, I can assure you that Bulgarians living abroad very often show deviations in a negative (less humane aspect) than the people living here. Same is valid for some of foreigners living in Bulgaria vs. living in their own countries.
Music channels do not followers in Italy ?  Don't you have MTV there ?? No luxury cars, no long legged girls, no yachts, no posh stuff ??? Come on ...

Re Vaccines:  No you're not correct. Some vaccines do really cause problems but this is in a very rare occasions - e.g. 1 in 100 000.  In general - vaccines do not cause problems often. We here use the same vaccines that are sold in Italy and Japan for example. There are a few local brands, but most of the production facilities are already bought by  large international companies.
There was really a case, when last year s.o. tried to import Turkish vaccines of a low quality that woul probably cause greater number of problems but that was stopped in the very beginning.

Saying that, I can confirm that one of my relatives suffered from a severe inflammation of one of the nerves soon after taking an antiflu vaccine. But proving the cause for the inflammation is the vaccine is almost impossible.

And that:

"But this for the Bulgarians has already happened for many decades and is in my opinion at least one of the causes of the fact that many people have mental problems"

Said by a person who's not a professional in that field, and if not based on a serious and reconfirmed sudies is just STUPID!

Especially since many studies show that Bulgarians have the lowest levels of mental problems in Europe.

Kristian
you still believe in these studies, as a supreme and incontrovertible truth
but is not so
these studies, very often, have the specific function of manipulating the masses,
starting from the intellectual and reference classes, to reach the whole people

have you ever seen statistical studies on politics
when all the polls are in favor of politicians favored by power
they are incorrect
but have they influenced the masses?

But you only need to carefully observe the Bulgarian people
to see that so many people do not work the brain well


if only a few children die after a vaccine
it does not mean
that the vaccine does not cause damage, even to the majority of children who continue to survive

Those "real" studies are mostly written by quacks that calls themselves doctors. A lot of people claim that they can cure cancer with diets and alternative medicines. Do you believe them also?

I'm curious though about your study of the Bulgarian people? Where can I find your results?

Do you know ho many children get serious deceases because they haven't got there vaccines? Children die because of the idiocy of their parents to not vaccinate their children.

Manipulation of the masses.....

Ramses K. wrote:

Those "real" studies are mostly written by quacks that calls themselves doctors. A lot of people claim that they can cure cancer with diets and alternative medicines. Do you believe them also?

I'm curious though about your study of the Bulgarian people? Where can I find your results?

Do you know ho many children get serious deceases because they haven't got there vaccines? Children die because of the idiocy of their parents to not vaccinate their children.

Manipulation of the masses.....

Ramses K,
informed
come here to talk nonsense, it means to disturb the discussion

https://translate.google.it/translate?s … l-mondo%2F

free2go wrote:

Wearing a tinfoil hat will be like wearing a crown. Let them get all the vaccines they crave.

This people cannot even reach a real indipendent scientific publication...leave alone understand the content of it.

Ever wondered why the government need to give total legal immunity to those who produce and administer vaccines?

it will be difficult to arrive at any valid conclusion regarding the title of the Topic, if the interlocutors discuss this way
Some of them probably still believe in the existence of Father Christmas