Money out

15,000,000 legally without declaring, more if you're smart about it

Circular 15/2011 / TT-NHNN indicated that there's no limit on the amount of Vietnam currency being carried upon exit, but anything above 15 million đồng will need to be declared.

But what about the part that limit is Us 5000. If converted, should not it be much more than this 15 mil limit? It does not tally..

LSP123 wrote:

But what about the part that limit is Us 5000. If converted, should not it be much more than this 15 mil limit? It does not tally..

Foreign currencies and local currency do not have to be equal on this matter.  Every country sets the limit on local currency and foreign currency differently, and not always the twain shall meet.

For instance, in Thailand, the limit is 50,000 baht (=$1500) while the limit on foreign currency is $20,000.  In Philippine, it's 50,000 peso (= $950) but $10,000 in foreign currency.

BTW, VND is a non-convertible currency abroad, so think twice before you plan to take it out of the country.

Gosh do not let the real estate investors know that the VND is not convertible when they sell and want to repatriate their money back in there mother country!!!! That would be a bear....invest your $100K...become a gazillionaire in VN flipping houses and then can not get the money out.

Vagabondone wrote:

... become a gazillionaire in VN flipping houses and then can not get the money out.

Do as the locals do: set sale price in gold or USD.

I get the picture now. Thanks much

Ciambella wrote:

...BTW, VND is a non-convertible currency abroad, so think twice before you plan to take it out of the country.

I have an Asia Commercial Bank (ACB) 'Prepaid Visa Debit card' VND account, opened here in Việt Nam.

The balance on the account is limited to ₫200,000,000.00 VND at any one time.

The banker I spoke with called it an "international" account, further saying it is NOT a domestic account.

I'm guessing I can use it to pay "foreign transactions" in the USA (or elsewhere, outside Việt Nam).

I'm sure there are foreign transaction fees and currency related fees when using it to spend as dollars, but I'm *thinking* this may be one way to use a large chunk of VND outside Việt Nam without having to declare it or actually move it anywhere...

???

I think the standard method for most Viet Kieu is to convert to 100$ US bills at the gold shop.  Then dad carries $5K, mom $5K, and $5K each for junior and daughter Thi.  There you have $20,000 undeclared which the US IRS (taxation authorities) knows nothing about.  If that isn't enough you are coming back next year anyway.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

The banker I spoke with called it an "international" account, further saying it is NOT a domestic account.

I'm guessing I can use it to pay "foreign transactions" in the USA (or elsewhere, outside Việt Nam).

I'm sure there are foreign transaction fees and currency related fees when using it to spend as dollars, but I'm *thinking* this may be one way to use a large chunk of VND outside Việt Nam without having to declare it or actually move it anywhere...

???

When I had my accounts with Sacombank, one of them was an international account.  The method was recommended by the banker who was/is friend of the family, based on our visa and income situation.  (I only came to the bank to sign on the dotted line after all paperwork was done over text messages -- that's how strong the relationship was.)

Wire transfer from the States was to the international account, not to the domestic one.  I could keep USD in that account for the life of the visa, withdraw USD (only in person) partially or entirely, or transfer (after it's converted to VND) to the domestic one. 

Once the money was in the domestic account, I could withdraw with Sacombank Visa/debit card, pay the bills in VN, etc.  If I wanted to pay the US bills from VN, it would've been a wire transfer (using USD in the international account or VND from the domestic one after it's converted to USD). 

That's too many fees and too much work for our simple life, so I closed both accounts after 4.5 months.  Had to pay a closing fee as the minimum requirement was 6 months.  Keeping our money in the States has been the right choice all around -- free, quick, and no hassle.

"That's too many fees and too much work for our simple life, so I closed both accounts after 4.5 months.  Had to pay a closing fee as the minimum requirement was 6 months.  Keeping our money in the States has been the right choice all around -- free, quick, and no hassle."

Agreed and why would anybody want to take VND with them when leaving VN?  I can make an educated guess, but leave it at that.

Also, not sure if the OP is a U.S. citizen or resident because opening a US bank account for foreign individuals with no ties to the USA can be challenging.  Of course having a good sum of money helps. 

For US people or those with ties to the US, there are many options to manage your finances (e.g., Schwab, Fidelty etc.). with either -0- or minimal fees.  Depending on your situation, there are more sophisticated options, but they require material cash/investments.  For example, Chase has an international investment account that offers substantial benefits, but the costs of entry is high.  Likewise, Singapore banks offer something similar for non-Singaporeans, but the costs of entry there is even higher than the Chase account. 

There is plenty of information out there, just do the research.

Vagabondone wrote:

Gosh do not let the real estate investors know that the VND is not convertible when they sell and want to repatriate their money back in there mother country!!!! That would be a bear....invest your $100K...become a gazillionaire in VN flipping houses and then can not get the money out.

Sorry to rain on your parade but we’ve been able to convert  VND to USD  just fine.  In fact, the money has always been wired to our US account within a few hours. The transfer company even offered to hand-deliver the cash directly to my parent’s doorsteps for a real-time exchange.

Rates vary but we always send a set amount at 2.5%.

Kupo wrote:

Sorry to rain on your parade but we’ve been able to convert  VND to USD  just fine.  In fact, the money has always been wired to our US account within a few hours. The transfer company even offered to hand-deliver the cash directly to my parent’s doorsteps for a real-time exchange.

Rates vary but we always send a set amount at 2.5%.

Sounds like the gold shop route (often a travel agent on the US end) commonly used by Viet Kieu.   Although widely used, I wonder if it is truly legal.  I have noticed that for many Vietnamese, "everybody does it" serves as proof that something is not illegal.  Of course it is not very likely that the powers-that-be are unaware of how it all works which may mean that someone unknown to you gets a piece of your 2.5%.

THIGV wrote:

I have noticed that for many Vietnamese, "everybody does it" serves as proof that something is not illegal.

So true!

If a large part do something, it can't be illegal.

And the proverb "Ignorance does not protect against foolishness", has thereby also no relevance.

THIGV wrote:

Kupo wrote:

Sorry to rain on your parade but we’ve been able to convert  VND to USD  just fine.  In fact, the money has always been wired to our US account within a few hours. The transfer company even offered to hand-deliver the cash directly to my parent’s doorsteps for a real-time exchange.

Rates vary but we always send a set amount at 2.5%.

Sounds like the gold shop route (often a travel agent on the US end) commonly used by Viet Kieu.   Although widely used, I wonder if it is truly legal.  I have noticed that for many Vietnamese, "everybody does it" serves as proof that something is not illegal.  Of course it is not very likely that the powers-that-be are unaware of how it all works which may mean that someone unknown to you gets a piece of your 2.5%.

I could be wrong but I believe gold shops, travel agents, shipping companies, etc only deal in cash transactions (under the table) for money transfers. All of the wires we’ve received have all originated from a large Vietnamese-American owned corporation in the US.

I can’t speak upon the subject of legality, however, the company is officially registered as a financial institution in Vietnam and is (unofficially) owned by high-ranking government officials. My father-in-law referred us and, much to our relief, he had previously employed their services in order to pay for my wife’s tuition and living expenses in America for a little over a decade (from 7th grade up until employment).

Kupo wrote:

All of the wires we’ve received have all originated from a large Vietnamese-American owned corporation in the US.

I can’t speak upon the subject of legality, however, the company is officially registered as a financial institution in Vietnam and is (unofficially) owned by high-ranking government officials. My father-in-law referred us and, much to our relief, he had previously employed their services in order to pay for my wife’s tuition and living expenses in America for a little over a decade (from 7th grade up until employment).

In the first instance, wires from the US to VN don't seem to be the problem.  Many people have their own favorite ways but they manage to get it done just fine.

It is the other direction that is the subject of this thread (Money out.)  If your father-in-law knows of an entity that can move significant amounts of money from VN to the US on a repeated and legal basis, can you give us a name?  If not you are just teasing us all.     Perhaps this private bank is only available to highly placed Party officials and their closest friends.  Of course they would need a way to move money fast if things went sour for them.  The same may be too much to expect for us peons.   

THIGV wrote:

In the first instance, wires from the US to VN don't seem to be the problem.  Many people have their own favorite ways but they manage to get it done just fine.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The first instance consists of us handing over x VND + 2.5% upfront in Vietnam and receiving the USD equivalent (2.5% fee not reimbursed, of course) in our US account from another US account.

THIGV wrote:

It is the other direction that is the subject of this thread (Money out.)  If your father-in-law knows of an entity that can move significant amounts of money from VN to the US on a repeated and legal basis, can you give us a name?  If not you are just teasing us all.     Perhaps this private bank is only available to highly placed Party officials and their closest friends.  Of course they would need a way to move money fast if things went sour for them.  The same may be too much to expect for us peons.   

Sorry, I’d rather not give out a name. Any expats flipping land with a Vietnamese spouse would be far better served by having the spouse ask family members and locals. These services aren’t difficult to locate so if the spouse keeps coming up empty then that money is going to remain in Vietnam.

Gold shops and the $5000 departure limit will suffice for retirees and people working illegally on tourist visas.

Kupo wrote:

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The first instance consists of us handing over x VND + 2.5% upfront in Vietnam and receiving the USD equivalent (2.5% fee not reimbursed, of course) in our US account from another US account.

I think you just copied and pasted this from the dictionary.

Under "MONEY LAUNDERING"!

I'll be VERY surprised if your post isn't deleted by Admin, since we all know you can't advocate illegal activities here.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

I'll be VERY surprised if your post isn't deleted by Admin, since we all know you can't advocate illegal activities here.

I for one am not surprised by and am willing to accept Kupo's reluctance to name his institution.  One of the characteristics of a one party state is that there will always be a privileged few.  I just wish he had said so up front.

Kupo wrote:

Gold shops and the $5000 departure limit will suffice for retirees and people working illegally on tourist visas.

The first may be true for retirees, but it is a little flippant to assume that the only other people facing difficulty in moving money out are people who are working illegally.  It may be the employer who is not cooperative in providing the correct documentation.  Many banks reportedly may make things as difficult as possible whether because they wish to retain deposits or because of government policies.  There may be ways but there are too many hoops making it hard for people to pay loans in their own countries.  I know that Citibank was unwilling to allow us to wire a small number of US$ back to the US even though their own records clearly showed that we had wired substantially more in during the previous three years.

So have we come up with an answer for the real estate investor in VN like Deflon and me a wannabe  Deflon that made a nifty $500,000 profit of a RE flip and need to get the proceeds (gold ,VND, $$) out of Vietnam. I am starting to think that investing in US real estate maybe easier and safer. The thread seems to imply I need to be part of the mafia or something to be a real mover and shaker in the RE market here. I thought there were rules on the reporting of large transfers across borders. I have heard tell that US banks are required to report any transaction that is $10k or above. So once I get my $500k profit to America what do I do with it....put it under my mattress?