Retirement Visa and Taxation in Brasil

Hi, knedelisky,

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the retirement visa was eliminated as part of the 2017 reform of the immigration laws. 
You should definitely confirm with the Brazilian Consulate responsible for your region in San Francisco, but I think you will find that the only visa now available to you that can lead to permanent status is the investor visa, VITEM IX.
I don't want to create false hopes, but there IS a visa called out in the law, VITEM XIV, that does not seem to have been defined yet, but is described as "Temporary Visa Based on Brazilian Immigration Policy".  If the Consulate General confirms that the retirement visa no longer is being issued, it might not hurt to ask if there's another visa for people who would have qualified for it, and to mention this VITEM XIV.

*ETA*  Under the current law, the Foreign Ministry no longer issues Permanent Visas (VIPER) for any purpose.  The status of people who held VIPERs when the law changed (November 2017), however, was not affected.  Those visas, including VIPERs for retirees, continue in effect.
Since November 2017, Brazilian Consulates are only issuing temporary visas -- VITEM -- to allow foreigners who may qualify for permanent residency to enter Brazil and apply for it with the Federal Police, now the only agency that can grant permanent residency.  VITEMs and corresponding procedures are in place to grant permanent residency on the basis of family reunion and investment; there is no similar VITEM or procedure for new retirees.

Yes, the retirement visa is no longer. Abthree gave some great advice and perhaps you can find another way. Good luck!

Wow, thank you for the information and the advice.  I had read this only one other place and assumed that it was misinformation.

So...do you think it is possible to apply for a retirement visa IN Brasil with the Federal Police???

Thank you.

Kathleen

Hi, Kathleen,

I don't think that the legal framework exists anymore for obtaining permanent residency on the basis of retirement.
Since you two have been living in Lençois for 10 years, have built a home there, and have another 20 years of familiarity with Brazil, you must have developed a pretty good network.   Now would be a good time to pulse that network, particularly any attorneys in it, and have them make some inquiries on your behalf.   The law specifically states that ownership of real estate is not a basis for permanent residency... but it's Brazil, so who knows? 
Best of luck to you.

Thank you.  I'll try working the angle of friends who are attorneys.  We will also be in SF in a week or so and will go to the consulate there to see if we can get any additional information.  I really appreciate your suggestions.

And, by the way, I have read some of your other posts ... thank you ... great info.   

On the matter of getting money to Brasil:  we have been using TransferWise for several years now.  We have pretty much used it to get the money down there to build our new home.  There is a catch though:  money transferred into Brasil from TransferWise can only go to an individual's bank account and not to a business bank account.  Also, there are limits on how many R$'s  can be sent to one account in a given month or year.  In many cases, we had to ask the companies who have been involved in our project if we could transfer money to an owner's account.  Most of the time this worked well.  TransferWise has been an incredible resource for us.

Thanks for the kind words!  Sounds like you two are really on top of things:  if anybody can make it work, I think that you can.  Please let us know how it goes.

I like TransferWise a lot, too.  I only stopped using them because I reached the point where they needed to have my SSN on file.  I'm sure that their security is second to none -- the founders are Estonian, probably the most online nation on earth -- but I just don't feel good putting it out to any more databases than it's already in.

Hello Knedelisky. I can't help more than abthree did but please remember to share with us  any insights you will have after resolving your situation. Can be helpful for others

A to income tax. If income is US income, you file US taxes. Now any income derived in BR is reported in BR.
I am receiving all benefits in the US and transfer funds needed into my BR bank. As to the amount, believe the limit is $2K U$D. After a time developing a relationship with you BR bank I found going into the bank and ask for increasing the limit. Had no issue.  On any large amounts, again best to work with your bank or for car have money sent to the dealer. The dealer will give their account number to make the transfer and once you have proof of confirmation and presented that proof to the dealer, the dealer will take it from there.
Once in BR you can check with the PF as to Permeant residency options or as said the consulate in your area. As abthree stated is the best route.

Hi,

For all who might have followed this post regarding a retirement visa for Brasil:

We visited the Consulate General of Brasil in San Francisco this morning, and met with the vice consulate.  She was very kind and helpful.  AND, confirmed that there is no longer any retirement visa being issued for Brasil, either here in the US at a Brasilian consulate OR in Brasil.  She does not foresee this changing any time soon.  The other visas - investment, employment, etc. - are still available. 

Hope this is helpful.

Thank to all for this information I am a new permanent resident just approved in 2018. I have a couple suggestions. We purchased a new car this year. We tried to wire money directly to the car dealer account. I must admit I left out a special long number required in the wire. But since it was a well know company the car dealer it made it. It took over a month. Here after all the examination before they would release it wanted to see more document from where in the US at the money. We got frustrated lucky I was able to recall the money with the agreement of the car company. That only took 4 days. We ended up going to ATM  and drawing the money out. Here is a tip about ATM. There is no limit to how much you can take out. Here is how you do it I called my back increased my limit. You take out 1000 Reals each pass we took out 20,000 at one machine that day. I know this is risky but there were two advantages we got our money directly and I use Charles Schwab checking they paid all my fees back each month from ATM and I got it for the exact exchange rate of that day no percent different. It’s the closes I found other than credit cards that don’t charge foreign cost exchange.

Just filed and paid my Brazilian income tax, and promised I'd report back, so here I am.  Please note:  this is NOT tax advice.  I'm not qualified to give that.  You should discuss your personal situation with a Brazilian accountant.
I'm a US retiree, transferring a set amount of my retirement income from my US accounts to my Brazilian accounts every month.  I have no Brazil-based income.  My accountant had access to all the same information that my US accountant does, and was very firm that I only owed taxes here on the funds that I transferred to Brazil.  After deductions for the equivalent of "married, filing jointly", and an exemption because of my age, effective tax rate was about 11.4% on the balance.  My US accountant wanted me to get the Brazilian taxes done first, and plans to claim this against my US taxes; I'm not sure whether as a credit or a deduction.
We purchased an apartment for cash in 2018, transferring the funds from the US.  Since the funds originated in a US post-tax account, the accountant determined, with consultation, that they should not be included in Brazilian taxable income.
I think that those are all the significant points.

Thanks for the info i tried  to transfer money one time to buy a car here from the US and failed to go through. I don’t have a bank account here pay most thing with a credit card. My wife make her own money and that the only bank account we have I am not on it she is Brazilian. I would assume the money I tried to transfer would be looked at the same as when you bought your apartment.

You can transfer to wife's account, but it is taxable to her. I have once and she was happy to for the help, but sure raised a fuss when tax time came. (I had finally moved here and really got to see how Brazilians feel about taxes). (Should have come after tax filing I guess)

I visited a very kind and helpfull "contador" ie tax and accounting expert in Sao Paulo last year. He was adamant Brazilian law required me to be taxed on my WORLD INCOME. He said not declaring assets outside Brazil was risky and he could not recommend it. He said to be tax-exempt go to Uruguay instead.

Depends on where you hold your retirement account(s).
Some countries have tax agreements and some do not.

As I understand a tax agreement between Brazil and country X  only hold if you are claimed as a taxpayer by country X. In which case you would have to show Brazil your income is already taxed elsewhere. In such a case you would not live in Brazil tax-free, you would simply not pay taxes in country X AND Brazil. Better than paying taxes in both places but not really a good deal at all (unless country X has a very low tax rate, but then Brazil might be entitled to make you pay the tax differential).

I was referring here to the case where your income is not taxed outside Brazil (no withholding tax). The tax expert I talked to didn't mention any tax agreements in my case as I am not a tax resident of the country where my income comes from.

The take-home point is that Brazil adopts a world income approach and unlike other SA countries like Peru, has no special tax provision in its retirement or long term visa.

Texanbrazil wrote:

Depends on where you hold your retirement account(s).
Some countries have tax agreements and some do not.

you are 100% correct. thankfully my country works on the same pension framework as brazil and the tax treaty, so i pay taxes for only one country. certainly simplifies things down the road. one thing i really do appreciate about brazil - recetia federal knows everything you are doing with your money. lol

01/02/22

jack_gats wrote:

I visited a very kind and helpfull "contador" ie tax and accounting expert in Sao Paulo last year. He was adamant Brazilian law required me to be taxed on my WORLD INCOME. He said not declaring assets outside Brazil was risky and he could not recommend it. He said to be tax-exempt go to Uruguay instead.

My accountant's advice is different.  That doesn't make one "right" and the other "wrong", it just points up the fact that everybody's tax situation is different.  That's why the only tax advice I ever offer on this site is:  find an accountant that you feel you can trust, and follow that professional's advice.

When mine prepares my Brazilian return, she has not only my Brazilian bank statements in front of her, but my complete US return as well, and all of my US investment statements.  I provide her with complete information, and trust her to apply her professional expertise to it.

Of course, that's the way to go if you live in Brazil.

I was getting advice in order to ascertain whether I could retire in Brazil virtually tax-free like I can in some countries.

I also had a written reply by another "contador" who simply wrote I would have to pay taxes on my worldwide income, and I had a lengthy phone call with yet  another "contador" who said he could make monthly tax statements for me and as to my income abroad, Brazil may have a right to tax them but "there was no practical way for Brazil to do so as that income remained abroad". I took this latest advice to mean "don't ask don't tell" (not an option for me though).

Getting to be tax time.  This will be my first experience reporting to Brazil.  I have no Brazil earnings, not even bank interest (no accounts here yet). H&R Block has done my taxes in previous years and they have told me they can do them again from afar.  What are your experiences, tips, timelines?  (I don't even know yet when Brazil's filing deadline is.)

It seems logical to do (at least, prepare) my US taxes first; yes? Should I FILE the forms right away, or does the US need information from my Brazil filing?  Should the forms be prepared concurrently?  I'd like to find an accountant here in Brazil who is familiar with and has experience with US AND Brazilian tax forms and laws and the preparation of both countries' forms.  How does one go about finding such a person?  I'm residing in Governador Valadares, MG on a VITEM XIV visa, RNM issued and good until March 2023. 

As always, thanks for your input and suggestions.

A maybe faster solution would be buying a residence permit in Paraguay. That will enable you to spend 6 months per year in Brazil. Adding that with your current passport tourist visa, you'll be able to spend 12 months in the country. Only downside, you'll have to pop up in Paraguay once a year in order to maintain your residence permit and as well to leave Brazil and enter with either the residence permit or your current passport.
It's quite a fast process, costs 5k USD to buy the permit and that means you can work and live in all the countries inside the MERCOSUL agreement.

That may well be the fastest solution to stay long term in Brazil.

Best,

@RelocateBrazil

01/06/22

Hi, Viajanete!

Great to see you back. 

It's useful for expats with Brazilian wage or salary income to prepare their Brazilian taxes first, because they provide the basis for some US tax benefits.   That doesn't apply to retirement income though, so I  always do my US taxes first, so the return is available to my Brazilian accountant for reference.

How to find an accountant depends on what kind of network you've developed in Governador Valadares.  I got a name from an attorney/real estate agent we were friendly with, met with her, and liked her.  We've worked with her for three years now. Your lawyer if you have one, and friends are all possible sources for referrals.

At least one of the major international accounting firm has offices in Belo Horizonte; I forget which one,  but I can look it up, if you're interested.

Ordinarily I'd say that it's hard to find a Brazilian accountant familiar with US tax law in an interior city, but as you know better than I by now, Governador Valadares is a special case.  As one of the biggest headquarters for illegal US immigration from Brazil, it probably has an unusual number of professionals familiar with various aspects of US law.  Be very careful in choosing.

relocatesouthbrazil wrote:

It's quite a fast process, costs 5k USD to buy the permit and that means you can work and live in all the countries inside the MERCOSUL agreement.

01/06/22

That's certainly true for holders of Paraguayan passports; I'm not sure that it applies in the case of a foreigner with a Paraguayan residence permit.   That should be confirmed in advance with Brazilian authorities.

Brazil ordinarily bases residence and particularly employment decisions on the underlying passport and the type of Brazilian visa an individual obtains, not on the independent actions of third countries.

abthree wrote:

relocatesouthbrazil wrote:

It's quite a fast process, costs 5k USD to buy the permit and that means you can work and live in all the countries inside the MERCOSUL agreement.

01/06/22

That's certainly true for holders of Paraguayan passports; I'm not sure that it applies in the case of a foreigner with a Paraguayan residence permit.   That should be confirmed in advance with Brazilian authorities.

Brazil ordinarily bases residence and particularly employment decisions on the underlying passport and the type of Brazilian visa an individual obtains, not on the independent actions of third countries.

Agree with abthree. Throw-in many PY citizens were working in SP and other states and in late 2019 and 2020 (covid) many were deported via buses to the Foz/PY border. PY closed its borders and even citizens could not enter their country. (They spent 3 months on the bridge. Could not enter BR or PY. No food, water, or bathrooms.)
This is something I would not recommend to an expat.

abthree wrote:

01/06/22

Hi, Viajanete!

Great to see you back. 

It's useful for expats with Brazilian wage or salary income to prepare their Brazilian taxes first, because they provide the basis for some US tax benefits.   That doesn't apply to retirement income though, so I  always do my US taxes first, so the return is available to my Brazilian accountant for reference.

How to find an accountant depends on what kind of network you've developed in Governador Valadares.  I got a name from an attorney/real estate agent we were friendly with, met with her, and liked her.  We've worked with her for three years now. Your lawyer if you have one, and friends are all possible sources for referrals.

At least one of the major international accounting firm has offices in Belo Horizonte; I forget which one,  but I can look it up, if you're interested.

Ordinarily I'd say that it's hard to find a Brazilian accountant familiar with US tax law in an interior city, but as you know better than I by now, Governador Valadares is a special case.  As one of the biggest headquarters for illegal US immigration from Brazil, it probably has an unusual number of professionals familiar with various aspects of US law.  Be very careful in choosing.

Thanks so much, abthree!  I have put the word out (among friends I trust) and am waiting to see what responses come in.  I know several people who get remittances from family in the States, and a friend's aunt who has just moved back to Brazil after decades in the U.S.   
. 
In the meantime, yes, I WOULD appreciate knowing which major accounting firm I might find in Belo Horizonte and the contact info for them.  Thanks so much!

01/23/22

Viajanete wrote:

. 
In the meantime, yes, I WOULD appreciate knowing which major accounting firm I might find in Belo Horizonte and the contact info for them.  Thanks so much!

Hi,

Sorry to keep you waiting -- I've been a little tied up.  Here's what I know about major international accounting firms in BH -- more than I thought:

PWC
https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/about/office- … razil.html

Deloitte
https://www2.deloitte.com/br/pt/footerl … ce-locator

KPMG
https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/about/offi … nte-1.html

EY
https://www.ey.com/pt_br/locations/braz … -horizonte

Deloitte is some big guns. they get contracted out from IBM for support primarily

01/23/22

Mikeflanagan wrote:

Deloitte is some big guns. they get contracted out from IBM for support primarily

And ending a relationship of over 100 years,  they've replaced KPMG as GE's auditor, too.  Of course,  GE is only a shadow of its former self.

yea, crazy seeing empires rise and fall. though GE im not suprised , they didnt have much innovation after the radio era

01/24/22

Mikeflanagan wrote:

yea, crazy seeing empires rise and fall. though GE im not suprised , they didnt have much innovation after the radio era

In fact, they did.  A world of things we take for granted,  from engineering plastics to CT scanners to commercial jet engines to modern street lighting to dieselization of railroads to portable gas turbines to submarine propulsion to commercial nuclear power to tungsten carbide tools and much more, came out of GE labs and were commercialized from GE factories during the lives of many of us still alive. 

Throughout the 20th Century, GE filed more patent applications every year in the US than any other inventor, corporate or individual.  It was a point of great pride - until Jack Welch took over.  Then innovation ended, and he stripped the company as effectively as any corporate raider.  The financial and engineering foundations were so strong that it took him over twenty years to bring it down, but he was a genius of destruction.

So true! More children were educated by the dividends from GE in my parents and their parents. Then GE decided to shed appliances and other consumer products to get into the financial world!!  How did that work out in 2007/2008!!!!

01/24/22

Texanbrazil wrote:

So true! More children were educated by the dividends from GE in my parents and their parents. Then GE decided to shed appliances and other consumer products to get into the financial world!!  How did that work out in 2007/2008!!!!

Sugar rush, then devastation.

I spent the first twelve years of my career there.  Like many, I was a GE brat -- my father rose through the ranks, and never worked anywhere else.  I had a friend who was fourth generation.

I left in 1988 for family reasons, but I was not sorry to go.  The company had just missed topping the patents list for the first time, and was about to lose its AAA credit rating.  The writing was in very small print, but it was still up on the wall for anyone to see who looked.  The skills I acquired have served me well for the rest of my life, though.

abthree wrote: "It's useful for expats with Brazilian wage or salary income to prepare their Brazilian taxes first, because they provide the basis for some US tax benefits.   That doesn't apply to retirement income though, so I  always do my US taxes first, so the return is available to my Brazilian accountant for reference."

Thanks for all your comments above. Is it true that Brazil does not tax U. S. pensions and Social Security?

01/27/22

Getting on wrote:

Thanks for all your comments above. Is it true that Brazil does not tax U. S. pensions and Social Security?

Not necessarily  - unlike Canada,  the US doesn't have a tax treaty with Brazil to address those matters.

Every expat needs to obtain his/her own individualized tax advice, because everyone's situation is different.

Hi abthree,

In a couple posts, you've mentioned your accountant. Can you share contact information?

I tried to send you a message, but either not allowed for newbie or I couldn't figure it out.

Thanks.

02/06/22

dnelson99 wrote:

Hi abthree,

In a couple posts, you've mentioned your accountant. Can you share contact information?

I tried to send you a message, but either not allowed for newbie or I couldn't figure it out.

Thanks.

I've sent you a DM; you should be able to reach me by responding to it.

I'd be happy to check with her, and pass on her info if she agrees.  I usually suggest that expats find professionals local to them, and she may not be a good fit:  she's a monolingual Portuguese speaker (I think -- except for my husband, Brazilians never speak English to me, even if they can.  ) and lives and works in Manaus.   Let me know.