Opinion

Malaysia and Cambodia are constitutional monarchies with representative democracy.  Vietnam is a socialist country where the one-party government sets the laws.  You can compare Cambodia with Malaysia, but you cannot compare either country to Vietnam. 

Vietnamese government doesn't make things difficult to expats.  I don't think they even spare a thought to expats during their policy making meetings.  Why should they?  Expats take up a very small percentage of the population (less than 0.01%), much smaller than tourists (2.7%).  Aside from higher rental, expats contribute little to the economy because many of them do not pay tax nor do they spend money left and right.  I seriously doubt that the insignificant number of expats in Vietnam make any impact on the country's economy growth to worth the government's attention.

OK.  You've just given me better and more reason(s)
to exit Vietnam.
If that attitude persists, there never will be many E-pats'
here.
What X-pats' have done for the economies of Costa Rica,
Panama, Ecuador, Thailand & other formally poor countries
is statistical proof that retires continually spending there
time and money in a country can make a big difference.
I've spent about $32,000 per year here for the past 4 years.

Vietnam has one of the fastest growing economy in the world.  2018 GDP was about $245 billions.  Most of it from manufacturing, construction, mining, agriculture and tourism. 

Tourism is about 10% of the economy.  About 15M international visitors and 80M domestic travelers.

Expats contribute very little to the Vietnamese economy.

You think too highly of yourself.  You're not the savior of the Vietnamese economy.  lol

Can you provide a link to prove your assertion of "statistical proof" that expats contribute meaningfully to a country's economy and make a "big difference?"  Exclude tourists okay?

It's a funny way to see it. I don't think any expat should feel "entitled" and the only thing you're doing is consuming cheap available stuff around you with your vast amount of money. You're a walking ATM and if some locals treat you as such, I won't blame them. You're just a big, juicy fish people can try to catch and extract as much đồng from as possible.

Learn local Vietnamese rules and customs, treat people with respect (not from the point of view of a saviour with cash), and maybe you'd have a better experience.

That was my personal opinion.

.
         "That was my personal opinion"

          Nope!    ..sounds objectivist to me too...(!!!)   

               (whilst wishing I could say it so well)         
.

G’day Chris,

Your probably doing better than most guys here.  Looking at a previous thread you posted on,  you have the resources to move freely around this planet with ( what Yogi likes)  No hooks, No baggage & No passengers.

You also did mention Banking & Marriage as a couple of issues putting up hoops & hurdles 😆😆😆

Maybe seeing dark clouds on the horizon is “someone up there” looking after you .   

Personally, I don’t think Vietnam is all that concerned about retired Expats.  A lot of them are mainly keeping the Thai & Dutch beer brewers in business  & shop at Big C & Lotte .....Thai & Korean owned.🤓

We’re “small change “ , but tolerated.

You have options, a back up plan & resources to do what you like.

All You  need is the bear essentials.  Passport, Smartphone, credit cards & a change of clothes.

Pick anything else up along the way.....happy travels

Ciambella wrote:

Malaysia and Cambodia are constitutional monarchies with representative democracy.  Vietnam is a socialist country where the one-party government sets the laws.  You can compare Cambodia with Malaysia, but you cannot compare either country to Vietnam. 

Vietnamese government doesn't make things difficult to expats.  I don't think they even spare a thought to expats during their policy making meetings.  Why should they?  Expats take up a very small percentage of the population (less than 0.01%), much smaller than tourists (2.7%).  Aside from higher rental, expats contribute little to the economy because many of them do not pay tax nor do they spend money left and right.  I seriously doubt that the insignificant number of expats in Vietnam make any impact on the country's economy growth to worth the government's attention.

It is precisely why VN is a 3rd world country and will remain so until the people wake up from their oppression, lies, extortion, cheating etc. etc.  Based on my experiences, Expats could care less about the VN communists as well because they know it is a lost cause so why would they care?  They don't.

What is even more sad, the Communist treat their own the same and unfortunately, most VN do not have the option to get on an airplane and leave.  You are are right in that the government does not make things difficult for expats, things are difficult for the general population, when you base those things on western governments.

WillyBaldy wrote:

It's a funny way to see it. I don't think any expat should feel "entitled" and the only thing you're doing is consuming cheap available stuff around you with your vast amount of money. You're a walking ATM and if some locals treat you as such, I won't blame them. You're just a big, juicy fish people can try to catch and extract as much đồng from as possible.

Learn local Vietnamese rules and customs, treat people with respect (not from the point of view of a saviour with cash), and maybe you'd have a better experience.

That was my personal opinion.

Maybe I read the OP differently, but I did not get the impression there was an issue or attitude about entitlement, actually the opposite.  Second, how do you know the OP is consuming cheap stuff?  There are plenty of places in VN that are expensive and not cheap, unless your living in the countryside and never venture out.  Third, why would you promote and encourage locals to take advantage of tourists and/or expats?  I hope you do realize it is a big problem for VN and why tourism never goes anywhere because people are not stupid.  Fourth, it is bad enough that the VN treat their own like walking ATM's and pull the same extortion/extraction schemes on each other, including their families. 

I do agree that expats need to learn local vietnamese rules and customs, treat people with respect (but unfortunately, the VN treat people with money with a lot of respect and those without, like dogs, very immature, in my opinion).

chrisrobin wrote:

I've spent about $32,000 per year here for the past 4 years.

Based on your profile plus the info you shared and inquiry you made on the other thread, I don't think the $32,000/year is your spending in Vietnam as an expat.  As a long-stay and/or frequent tourist perhaps, but not as someone who has made a home and living as a resident here (legal status notwithstanding).

The great advantage of being an expat is that you can leave whenever you want. Over time, countries change and your perspective and perception of the country changes as well.

As mentioned, there are other choices. I have friends in the Philippines, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Myanmar (formerly he was in China). I think about the possibility of moving somewhere else every day. That's where the tricky part comes in. Where to go? No place is perfect.

I've lived in Thailand, Laos and Cambodia as well as VN, and have left VN 3 times. In the end, in spite of the drawbacks, I've returned to VN because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages when the situation is analyzed rationally rather than just using feelings/emotions. I love Laos, for example, but I know from experience that living there again long-term simply isn't practical. Visiting for a couple of weeks is a much better idea.

Anyway, everybody has to find their own place and also be ready to move if and when the time comes. Obviously, getting out of VN and traveling around the region or beyond has its benefits. That's when you may realize that hey, life in VN isn't so bad. Also, try some different places within VN because that can really change your attitude as well. As the old cliche goes, variety is the spice of life.

Gee, all this hostility.   I bought a nice apartments near HaLong and dated a 50 something year old woman for nearly 3 years.  The government did not feel we should marry, and refused permission four(4) times...no reason given.   So we quietly moved to another country, married and are supposed to get our citizenship and passports in October.   -   Some comments are right.   Vietnam is a Communist country.  Why would a government not allow one of it's citizens to enjoy a better life.  She use to work 7 days a week.  Here, in this beautiful country together, neither of use works much.   I teach French & English occasionally for the social value.

.
   "Gee, all this hostility"

        ..we're not (all) hostile, many are just jealous...     

         Quite a few others are (rightly) defending their chosen turf...        

         Yes, it's (my) Utopia; but then, my attitude is more tolerant..?

         ..if my ability to live like a cockroach is any guide..?     
.

Bazza139 wrote:

.
   "Gee, all this hostility"

        ..we're not (all) hostile, many are just jealous...     

         Quite a few others are (rightly) defending their chosen turf...        

         Yes, it's (my) Utopia; but then, my attitude is more tolerant..?

         ..if my ability to live like a cockroach is any guide..?     
.

Bazza ....
Have you considered photosynthesis as a method of survival.

If Yogi goes on his mornings foraging expeditions...he only needs fresh air , sunshine & rain.

But after reading your post....Yogi has heard that cockroaches may be able to survive a nuclear event. 🤓.    So......I am currently rejigging my strategy.

How tall are you Bazz. ??    Yogi is trying to figure out how to get under a locked door.

.
    Simple, Yogi    (Attitude is everything)

         ..but I'm not all that tall; just slippery...     

            Altho..?   I can be radiant sometimes...      
.

chrisrobin wrote:

Gee, all this hostility.   I bought a nice apartments near HaLong and dated a 50 something year old woman for nearly 3 years.  The government did not feel we should marry, and refused permission four(4) times...no reason given.   So we quietly moved to another country, married and are supposed to get our citizenship and passports in October.   -   Some comments are right.   Vietnam is a Communist country.  Why would a government not allow one of it's citizens to enjoy a better life.  She use to work 7 days a week.  Here, in this beautiful country together, neither of use works much.   I teach French & English occasionally for the social value.

Just remember, online comments can be difficult to interpret and take them with a grain of salt.  For example, sometimes I play the devils advocate to see what reactions can be produced as it reveals more than one realizes.  However, it does not mean I agree with everything I opine.    But for this topic, no hostility here mate, I think I understand your points.

"Why would a government not allow one of it's citizens to enjoy a better life."  Based on my experiences in VN, all depends if you are a good communist and repeat the lies about the mass murder.  For example, I know someone who spent their entire life since 1975 working for the communists, got all the diplomas and awards for good service.  But when they retired, they got -0-, no pension, nada.   Guess why?  Allegedly, prior to 1975, this person supported the USA during the war, end of discussion.

@chrisrobin - in my opinion, if you are looking to retire in SEA or EA, if you can afford it, Singapore is the place to live, just expensive for a lot of people.  However, Malaysia is a great option, less expensive and very foreign retiree friendly and Singapore is just a short drive south.  We have thought about Malaysia as well, definitely an option for us.

There is plenty of information online about foreigners retiring in Malaysia.  I like South Korea and Japan, but no winters for us, just to cold. 

vndreamer wrote:

Maybe I read the OP differently, but I did not get the impression there was an issue or attitude about entitlement, actually the opposite.  Second, how do you know the OP is consuming cheap stuff?  There are plenty of places in VN that are expensive and not cheap, unless your living in the countryside and never venture out.  Third, why would you promote and encourage locals to take advantage of tourists and/or expats?  I hope you do realize it is a big problem for VN and why tourism never goes anywhere because people are not stupid.  Fourth, it is bad enough that the VN treat their own like walking ATM's and pull the same extortion/extraction schemes on each other, including their families.

I'm not promoting anything, I'm just being realistic. Can't generalise of course, but how many times was I with a local Vietnamese buying something when the seller would say in Vietnamese "Hey sister, share your gold mine with us, make him pay double the price, be nice to your sister and share the wealth". I've heard this countless times, and that's just one example. I'm not even blaming them. A retired expat living from basic government funded retirement makes about 10 times the average Vietnam income, and that's only the poorest expats.

I don't think tourists are turned off from Vietnam because of this, actually I think Vietnam is one of the best country for tourists because police won't allow crowds of locals surrounding tourists to sell stuff, unlike countries like Mexico and India for example. You even have "fixed price" zones in some big markets to avoid being scammed.

chrisrobin wrote:

The government did not feel we should marry, and refused permission four(4) times...no reason given.

I'm of the strong belief that anything in Vietnam can be arranged with money. We probably can't discuss specifics here on this forum but are you sure you provided enough "red envelopes" to the right people at the right time?

I'm asking because when I got married with had lots of "issues". For example, my ex wife suddenly had the "wrong signature" and they "did not believe" she was who she said she was. Well, a little of tea money made the signature suddenly look much clearer and accurate.

Since you bought a property there you must already know about the internals of doing business, I'm just surprised they'd decline the marriage with proper motivation.

@chrisrobin. 

FYI - Malaysia retirement visa program:

I. Long-term stay
The Malaysia My Second Home Program (MM2H Program)
allows people from all over the world who fulfill certain criteria
to reside in Malaysia as long as possible on a Long Term Social
Visit Pass (LTSVP) issued with an MEV. The LTSVP is granted
for an initial period of 10 years (subject to the validity of the
applicant’s passport) and is renewable. The program is open to all
citizens of countries recognized by Malaysia, regardless of race,
religion, gender or age. Applicants may bring along their spouse
and their unmarried children below 21 years old as dependents.
Foreign individuals are not allowed to work in Malaysia under
this program.
To qualify for the program, individuals who are aged 50 years or
older must show proof of liquid assets worth a minimum of at
least MYR350,000 (about 85,000 USD) and an offshore income of MYR10,000 per
month (about 2,500 USD). The applicant must satisfy either of the following conditions:
• They must open a fixed-deposit account of MYR150,000 (about 37,000 USD) in an
approved financial institution. After a period of one year, the
participant can withdraw up to MYR50,000 (about 12,000 USD) for approved
expenses relating to a house purchase, education for children in
Malaysia and medical purposes. A letter from the participant to
the MM2H Centre, Ministry of Tourism Malaysia is required
before any withdrawal is made from the fixed-deposit account.
Beginning with the second year, the participant must maintain
a minimum balance of MYR100,000 (about 24,000 USD) throughout his or her stay
in Malaysia under the program.

• They must show proof of monthly offshore income, such as
pension income, of MYR10,000 or more. Only applicants who
are drawing from government-approved funds may satisfy this
condition.
All participants in the MM2H Program and their dependents
(spouse and children) must submit a medical report from a private
hospital or registered clinic in Malaysia on approval or on
the receipt of the Conditional Letter of Approval. Approved participants
and dependents (spouse and children) must possess a
valid medical insurance policy that applies in Malaysia.
Foreign citizens may apply for participation in the MM2H
Program directly, without going through a third party, or they
may use the services of MM2H agents licensed by the Ministry
of Tourism, Malaysia.
The LTSVP described above is not a permanent residence permit.

WillyBaldy wrote:

chrisrobin wrote:

The government did not feel we should marry, and refused permission four(4) times...no reason given.

I'm of the strong belief that anything in Vietnam can be arranged with money. We probably can't discuss specifics here on this forum but are you sure you provided enough "red envelopes" to the right people at the right time?

I'm asking because when I got married with had lots of "issues". For example, my ex wife suddenly had the "wrong signature" and they "did not believe" she was who she said she was. Well, a little of tea money made the signature suddenly look much clearer and accurate.

Since you bought a property there you must already know about the internals of doing business, I'm just surprised they'd decline the marriage with proper motivation.

Seeing as its in Haiphong, I can be.elieve it. Things seem to be a lot more difficult in the north, hence why I dont reside there.

WillyBaldy wrote:

chrisrobin wrote:

The government did not feel we should marry, and refused permission four(4) times...no reason given.

I'm of the strong belief that anything in Vietnam can be arranged with money. We probably can't discuss specifics here on this forum but are you sure you provided enough "red envelopes" to the right people at the right time?

I'm asking because when I got married with had lots of "issues". For example, my ex wife suddenly had the "wrong signature" and they "did not believe" she was who she said she was. Well, a little of tea money made the signature suddenly look much clearer and accurate.

Since you bought a property there you must already know about the internals of doing business, I'm just surprised they'd decline the marriage with proper motivation.

Little envelopes mean, Can I buy a house in Thailand?

.
     ..big envelopes are better...     
.

I was going to post something negative about your use of the term expat and how you've somehow applied it specifically to yourself, rich white usually divorced retired immigrants living it up on the cheap in South East Asia. Immigrants come from all backgrounds and reasons. I assure you there are many in Vietnam doing business that are very welcome when they bring in investment and knowledge to help develop Vietnams economy and what about the ones here to teach language skills. It's like the Vietnamese lady on here who said Bac Ninh had no expats because she associated it with white people. The whole city was just farmland until a massive influx of Korean Expats moved in to work or support  Samsung. The cities economy is basically built around Samsung but she was blinded by her definition of an expat as exclusive white immigrants.

chrisrobin wrote:

Gee, all this hostility.   I bought a nice apartments near HaLong and dated a 50 something year old woman for nearly 3 years.  The government did not feel we should marry, and refused permission four(4) times...no reason given.   So we quietly moved to another country, married and are supposed to get our citizenship and passports in October.   -   Some comments are right.   Vietnam is a Communist country.  Why would a government not allow one of it's citizens to enjoy a better life.  She use to work 7 days a week.  Here, in this beautiful country together, neither of use works much.   I teach French & English occasionally for the social value.

Anyway, I now see your gripe. The corruption will eventually grind you down.

I'm curious as to how and where you got married? Plenty of foreigners got married in Thailand to avoid the red tape but they caught on to that and won't issue the necessary documents in Bangkok. Can't stop the gravy train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMjzTTbizso

Author of The Sympathizer, great book!

OT: Thailand has been clamping down on younger expats and long-stay tourists. The other day, I read a thread on THAIVISA how "about 80" T-VISA applications were unsuccessful in Vientiane. On  o n e  day!

Thailand wants to get rid of those who claim to be long-stay tourists.

There used to be huge numbers of African teachers. Not any more! For starters, they all must fly back home to renew VISAs.

The THB has risen to 34.4 to the Euro. What on earth is going on?!?

Back to my hole.

Enjoy Vietnam, while you can.

KruChris wrote:

OT: Thailand has been clamping down on younger expats and long-stay tourists. The other day, I read a thread on THAIVISA how "about 80" T-VISA applications were unsuccessful in Vientiane. On  o n e  day!

Thailand wants to get rid of those who claim to be long-stay tourists.

There used to be huge numbers of African teachers. Not any more! For starters, they all must fly back home to renew VISAs.

The THB has risen to 34.4 to the Euro. What on earth is going on?!?

Back to my hole.

Enjoy Vietnam, while you can.

While many of us who 'have been there, done that' prefer to live in Vietnam these days, in general, people are attracted to Thailand for the food and fun. As a result, the Thais can start turning people away.

Meanwhile, in Vietnam:

Vietnam wants to develop more nighttime activities including shopping and amusement to help attract tourists and persuade them to spend.

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/business/e … GhWxBZ_Vqg

Countries in Asia can get to you after a while, never a perfect place, even back home . Never been to Malaysia, so can't comment. Laos is gorgeous, but living there full time???? Same as Cambodia. You would be stepping backwards in either place compared to Vietnam.
Thailand day has come and gone, Vietnam is now capitalizing on thailands tourism demise. 9 years mainly based in Thailand, dollar is shite now, sick f being ripped off etc. Better value in Vietnam and elsewhere now. I am like the bear, travel with a pack, no dependants, would never buy anything in Asia. I just graze on the greenest pasture, and then move on. Enjoying the grazing in Vietnam at the moment.

Highly coincidental that when I see comments that reflect a priviledged attitude, one that points at bribery, extortion and corruption in another country, critize foreign policies, that these cpmmentst all come mostly from USA North Americans (South Americans are also Americans). Their country has no corruption, no racism, free trade agreement that benefits both parties, rules and regulations that prevent discrimination of immigrants....etc.
So the question is, why not just stay there?

I am an immigrant and expat who strives to thread lightly and not disrupt the eco system. I have seen small towns destroyed by expats who come to save and help the poor unfortunate people who live there. People never surprise me of how blind they are to their biases and holier-than-thou attitude.

RiccoExpat wrote:

Highly coincidental that when I see comments that reflect a priviledged attitude, one that points at bribery, extortion and corruption in another country, critize foreign policies, that these cpmmentst all come mostly from USA North Americans (South Americans are also Americans). Their country has no corruption, no racism, free trade agreement that benefits both parties, rules and regulations that prevent discrimination of immigrants....etc.
So the question is, why not just stay there?

I am an immigrant and expat who strives to thread lightly and not disrupt the eco system. I have seen small towns destroyed by expats who come to save and help the poor unfortunate people who live there. People never surprise me of how blind they are to their biases and holier-than-thou attitude.

Do you have links to these small towns being destroyed by expats?

I am surprised by your response as I thought you were different.  I looked up the word "eristic"  and saw your pic so I won't take the bait.  Besides, what is the name of this forum?

RiccoExpat wrote:

I am surprised by your response as I thought you were different.  I looked up the word "eristic"  and saw your pic so I won't take the bait.  Besides, what is the name of this forum?

So,basically you are talking things up with not a shred of evidence....well done!!!!

Zot is basically what you have backed up your claims with.

RiccoExpat wrote:

Highly coincidental that when I see comments that reflect a priviledged attitude, one that points at bribery, extortion and corruption in another country, critize foreign policies, that these cpmmentst all come mostly from USA North Americans
?? 
So the question is, why not just stay there?

Looking for a tropical life in retirement, which I can afford by leveraging geographic arbitrage, found a great new partner and happiness.  Privilege? Please save your cultural marxism.

RiccoExpat wrote:

I am an immigrant and expat who strives to thread lightly and not disrupt the eco system. I have seen small towns destroyed by expats who come to save and help the poor unfortunate people who live there. People never surprise me of how blind they are to their biases and holier-than-thou attitude.

Are you talking about leftist NGO do-gooders?
I second colinoscape, please list small towns destroyed by expats. thx!

Gobot
"Are you talking about leftist NGO do-gooders?
I second colinoscape, please list small towns destroyed by expats. thx!"

Good luck getting a reply.

I think our Jamacian friend has gone and got lost in the Panamanian jungle.

Not trying to cause an argument but how far back in history can this list go?

British expats based themselves on Shamian Island in Guangzhou to live, work and trade opium from.

Random I know but just saying...

phikachu wrote:

Not trying to cause an argument but how far back in history can this list go?

British expats based themselves on Shamian Island in Guangzhou to live, work and trade opium from.

Random I know but just saying...

I doubt Rico was around 100 years ago to see the island being destroyed by expats.

colinoscapee wrote:

I doubt Rico was around 100 years ago to see the island being destroyed by expats.

especially when he wrote "I've seen small towns destroyed by expats who come to save and help the poor unfortunate people who live there."

Present time.

Got it.

I wasn’t sure if colonist and imperialists were considered expats or not. If you were to look up the wikipedia definition of an expatriate you will find this particular moment in history as an example of an expatriate community. Whilst it mentions the bigger shanghai concession, having been to both, Shamian island is more geographically notable since the expats took over a whole island and put up a sign saying “Chinese and dogs prohibited”. Both were concessions from the war to sell drugs.

If colonists make it onto the list of expats then remember Vietnam’s own troubled history with French...expats.

Anyway, present day only.

phikachu wrote:

Got it.

I wasn’t sure if colonist and imperialists were considered expats or not. If you were to look up the wikipedia definition of an expatriate you will find this particular moment in history as an example of an expatriate community. Whilst it mentions the bigger shanghai concession, having been to both, Shamian island is more geographically notable since the expats took over a whole island and put up a sign saying “Chinese and dogs prohibited”. Both were concessions from the war to sell drugs.

If colonists make it onto the list of expats then remember Vietnam’s own troubled history with French...expats.

Anyway, present day only.

Rico saying he has seen this, hence why I asked to see his evidence.

Still to this day.....nothing.

Maybe Rico is a very elderly man and has actually seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aXv1J9 … p;index=27