Irritating dating scenario

Agreed, once you've educated yourself you'll work out the best way to sort out your issues.

Suppobill wrote:

This one is a little more on topic!

I put up a profile on VC a couple of months ago with the idea of making friends with women so I would have people to visit whilst on my motorcycle trip from HCMC to Hanoi. Although I had NO intention of finding a relationship, one found me.

Of course by that time, I had made a number of friends on VNC and had been chatting on Viber about their lives, where they live, etc. Just typical friend stuff.

The relationship I formed in HCMC blossomed. She has her own business, seems to be financially set, and wants to go on the trip with me. Things seemed to be going fine, and then we had a talk about the other women I was chatting with. I explained we were just friends and nothing was going on otherwise. She said it was ok, but now it seems like there's a problem.

She will tell me when she's going to call, but then "falls asleep". She tells me what time to call her, but then doesn't answer. I know she's busy with her business, so I've been understanding. "Ok, we'll talk tomorrow!". Today I called and she said she was finishing up some work (11:30pm) and was hungry and wanted to eat. She told me to call back in 30 minutes, but when I did, she accepted the call, then hung up immediately and texted that she was in bed and "we'll talk tomorrow". This screams "I'm busy with someone else right now".

I would never accept behavior this from any woman in the US, but I wonder if this is one of those "tests" I keep reading about.  Is this a tactic to make me feel jealous? Maybe to see if I profess my undying love, or just pack up my tent and move along? I would expect something like this from a younger woman, but this one is 41, educated, and financially independent.

I'm interested in pursuing this relationship to see where it may lead, so I don't want to screw it up because I didn't understand the dating "game".

Any advice?

Cheers,

Bill

You made a big mistake by telling her you are chatting/texting with other women.  It is the sure fire way to pist off a VN woman.  They don't believe in female friends for her man.  Once she thinks you are her man, she won't even let you sit next to another woman, even in public. 

If you are really interested in her, tell her your sorry and that you did not understand, things are different in America.  So out of respect for her and that you like her, you deleted the messages, photos etc. and stopped all communication with the others.

Yeah last time I made that mistake, I told the woman I was dating I was going to dinner with two female friends. She asked at what time. I wasn't sure why she asked but I told her... then during that dinner with my friends, she tried calling me 12 times with video calls... I did not know she was calling, I was not using my phone and she go so angry. That was my last lesson about "female friendship" here 

JoseLülle wrote:

Created an account two days ago and already a wannabe moderator, that looks promising!

Thanks VNDreamer!

As it turns out, this was more of a misunderstanding between us than anything to do with me talking to other women, although I'm starting to appreciate how far she has gone to not freak out about me talking to others. She said it was ok, but I need to tell her that I understand how big of a leap it is for her to trust me like that. I hope maybe my friends can become her friends as well.

I am curious though at what point in dating does this become an issue? Does one night out with a woman give her exclusive rights? Maybe after the first time sleeping together? It certainly makes sense if you're living together. Is it something that is discussed prior to any drama or am I expected to recognize that point of departure in a budding relationship?

Thanks for your advice!

Bill

Suppobill wrote:

Thanks VNDreamer!

As it turns out, this was more of a misunderstanding between us than anything to do with me talking to other women, although I'm starting to appreciate how far she has gone to not freak out about me talking to others. She said it was ok, but I need to tell her that I understand how big of a leap it is for her to trust me like that. I hope maybe my friends can become her friends as well.

I am curious though at what point in dating does this become an issue? Does one night out with a woman give her exclusive rights? Maybe after the first time sleeping together? It certainly makes sense if you're living together. Is it something that is discussed prior to any drama or am I expected to recognize that point of departure in a budding relationship?

Thanks for your advice!

Bill

Of course she will say "it is ok", that is what makes VN women so lovely.  However, in reality, no, she prefers you not talk to other women.  My GF now wife did the same, I had a few female friends when I met her and she said "it was ok".  But I previously dated a girl from Hanoi and from the beginning of the relationship, she point blank said to me "you need to stop talking to those other girls".  Like you, I was not understanding why it was a big deal, but I found out later why.

To add more to the story, I actually met a girl from Ben Hoa before I met my GF now wife and continued to chat with her for awhile and she always said to me "please tell your GF thanks for letting you chat with me."  Again, I was a little clueless, but I was getting the picture and as time when on, you learn or you will suffer!  LOL

She never told me to stop, but I knew she did not like it so I finally made the decision to delete the pics and stopped chatting with the others.  I told her what I did and her facial expression said it all, she was elated and so happy.  Thus, I knew I did the right thing.

I am not sure how long into a relationship you need to make that decision, but I would not let it go for more than a few months.  Once a VN woman sees you has her BF, you are her property.  Some people don't like it, but I actually like it and me and the wife have fun with it.  We have an amazing relationship so it works very well.  Like the comment I made about not letting a woman sit next to you.  My wife is so smart, we were at the IHG resort in DaNang and they have these people movers like you see at Disney to transport people around the property.  So one day we get on and I get on first (VN custom), so i intentionally sit facing a young lady in the seat in front of us because I wanted to see what my wife would do.  Sure enough, the wife does not sit next to me, she sits across from me for 1 reason only, she does not want the young woman facing me to look at me, no joke.  I smiled and said, "your to funny" because I knew why she did it and she said "chính xác" which means exactly in english. 

My advice, don't fight it, understand it, appreciate it and have fun with it.

Thanks brother!

This real world advice is pure gold!

Cheers,

Bill

Suppobill wrote:

The $2k I mentioned was only a ballpark number for monthly living expenses. I was looking at prices in Dist 2 and found some nice places for around  $800 per month.

I'm guessing my entertainment expenses will be around another $2k. Restaurants most meals, 6 or 8 beers per day, and any other typical dating expenses. I'm not into the clubbing scene. Definitely interested in some formal language instruction as well.



Bill

Yes, that is accurate.  I"m in An Phu in D2 and have a 3br 4 ba for $900 so $800 is definitely do-able.

There are three of us (with her 13 yo daughter) and all told our expenses are around 60,000,000 per month so that's about $2,600 including the house.  We have some expenses you won't have like English school, regular school, and taking care of three people instead of two and sending some money to her family which is about 600 of the 2600 so that puts us right at $2,000 per month.

EDIT to say I just went and checked because it's easy to do on my  bank texts  every time money comes out of that account.  From June 6 to December 6 for ALL of the money spent on that account it was 388,000,000 so closer to 65,000,000 each month on average.  Because everything comes out of that account that is every dong that was spent in total.  So you can do it easily on $2,000.

To suppobill, at $2 k US, after rent you should be looking at having 1 million dong per day spending. If not more, but even if it's a bit less, it's a lot. I love my nightlife, beer is cheap, I eat out at decent places. And as I may not speak for everyone on the forum, I would think the vast majority agree that with this amount, you will be comfortable.

(Sorry for not using the Quote function. This old iPhone doesn’t function well when away from its familiar environment.)

For the same amount, my husband and I pay the rent and utilities for a beautiful 2 bedroom apartment 6 minute walk to the beach in VT, eat top quality seafood several times a week, eat out a couple times a month, and travel international (I don’t mean SEA countries) twice a year. So yes, for one person, it should be very comfortable.

My  husband doesn’t drink 6 - 8 beer a day, but at $10 for a carton of 24 cans, it wouldn’t make any difference to our budget if he did. 

BTW, that budget also includes biweekly facial massage and hair care for me, which most men wouldn’t need.

I've already mentioned how I think the term "test" is slung around to loosely but since it seems we're going to continue using it I'll throw another 500 dong in.

I personally think all women (and maybe men) are always doing tests.  Conscious, subconscous.  Light, severe.  Inconsistent, consistent.   It's sometimes a culture test.  For simplicity I'm going to replace "culture" with "language".

Let's say you're American and you meet an American woman.  If she gives you a subtle "English" vocabulary test it may never occur to you that you are being tested because unsurprisingly you speak fluent English.  On the flip side, let's say you meet a Vietnamese girl and she's just curious whether you can say hello and goodbye in Vietnamese.  To an unprepared Westerner it may seem like a huge "test".

-  - -
1) My friend came to Vietnam yesterday to visit his wife.  They're still waiting on her paperwork.  She was giving him a hard time about other girls he had date in Vietnam and this was before he even met her.  I told straightforward that I'm on his side on this one and I can argue his point but I wasn't going to bother because this was an emotional thing on her side and not logical.

2) Later last night.  My coworker called me out to eat and said he would invite his wife's coworker.   She ended up inviting another coworker out without telling anyone.  It was all casual though so I didn't think much about it.  Funny how it happened after reading this thread.

3)  But then, I just remembered years ago back in the US I had the same thing happen when I was talking to a girl and she invited a friend out for our first date.  It was such a small thing that I didn't remember it until now.  And for the life of me I can't remember if she told me before the date if she was bringing a friend or not.  We're both Vietnamese so I don't know if it's an Asian thing or not.

videriant wrote:

3)  But then, I just remembered years ago back in the US I had the same thing happen when I was talking to a girl and she invited a friend out for our first date.  It was such a small thing that I didn't remember it until now.  And for the life of me I can't remember if she told me before the date if she was bringing a friend or not.  We're both Vietnamese so I don't know if it's an Asian thing or not.

Well, I can tell you that it if happened in my country (Canada), between Caucasian people at least, it would be totally unacceptable and I'd even say super weird. That being said, I remember passing interviews a long time ago and some young woman brought her boyfriend to the interview... so weird stuff happens everywhere 

WillyBaldy wrote:

videriant wrote:

3)  But then, I just remembered years ago back in the US I had the same thing happen when I was talking to a girl and she invited a friend out for our first date.  It was such a small thing that I didn't remember it until now.  And for the life of me I can't remember if she told me before the date if she was bringing a friend or not.  We're both Vietnamese so I don't know if it's an Asian thing or not.

Well, I can tell you that it if happened in my country (Canada), between Caucasian people at least, it would be totally unacceptable and I'd even say super weird. That being said, I remember passing interviews a long time ago and some young woman brought her boyfriend to the interview... so weird stuff happens everywhere 

She probably thought you were hot and brought her boyfriend along to help her restrain herself 
Wadey

Wadey wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

videriant wrote:

3)  But then, I just remembered years ago back in the US I had the same thing happen when I was talking to a girl and she invited a friend out for our first date.  It was such a small thing that I didn't remember it until now.  And for the life of me I can't remember if she told me before the date if she was bringing a friend or not.  We're both Vietnamese so I don't know if it's an Asian thing or not.

Well, I can tell you that it if happened in my country (Canada), between Caucasian people at least, it would be totally unacceptable and I'd even say super weird. That being said, I remember passing interviews a long time ago and some young woman brought her boyfriend to the interview... so weird stuff happens everywhere 

She probably thought you were hot and brought her boyfriend along to help her restrain herself 
Wadey

I love the idea but she had no idea how I looked like beforehand She did not get the job...

videriant wrote:

-  - -
1) My friend came to Vietnam yesterday to visit his wife.  They're still waiting on her paperwork.  She was giving him a hard time about other girls he had date in Vietnam and this was before he even met her.  I told straightforward that I'm on his side on this one and I can argue his point but I wasn't going to bother because this was an emotional thing on her side and not logical.

He is not going to win, he should cut his losses and beg for mercy. 

2) Later last night.  My coworker called me out to eat and said he would invite his wife's coworker.   She ended up inviting another coworker out without telling anyone.  It was all casual though so I didn't think much about it.  Funny how it happened after reading this thread.

Is he on Crack?  Never in a million years would I even think about inviting my wife's co-worker out to eat.  He has a death wish, right?   But thanks for the laugh, when I read that, I could not stop laughing because I was happy I am not him.  Please tell us, how did his wife react?  I have said it a thousand times if not more, you need to understand, VN GF's/Wives are like possessive women on steroids. 

The way I understood it, it could have been the wife who actually asked her husband to bring her friend, maybe for a match up?

Hahaha! I must have found a rare one then! She says she's not certain about me because she knows I'm talking to other women, although it's strictly platonic with the others. Just ones I met on VC before I met her that I've developed a friendship with.

Talking to her today, I said that it would be nice to have dinner with her friend and her husband (he's Scottish). She said that would be fun, but when I mentioned it would be nice to have another expat to hang out with and drink beer, she said that I'm not allowed outside after dark. I think she was serious!

We're going to have to have a talk about that one!

Cheers,

Bill

Suppobill wrote:

she said that I'm not allowed outside after dark. I think she was serious!

We're going to have to have a talk about that one!

Cheers,

Bill

Yeah, THAT is a non-starter.

She's laying down the ground rules straight away.
Sundown curfew.😂😂😂😂😂😂

Isn't it getting dark at around 6 pm these days? Even jail sounds better

Rules being applied before the relationship has got out of first gear....not for me!!!

Hanoi Hilton ?

WillyBaldy,

You write in another thread about your Vietnamese ex-wife.

Here in this thread you ask the community (sometimes quite naively) for advice regarding the behaviour of Vietnamese women.

Actually you should know the behaviour of women in other cultures before you get married.
That you still do not know the behaviour of these women after marriage and divorce is very strange.

It seems that getting to know them, being married and divorcing them all happened in a very short time. Otherwise you would not have to ask such questions here in the forum.

But it is entertaining, I have to admit. And you haven't lost your sense of humour despite the divorce.

AkaMaverick wrote:

Actually you should know the behaviour of women in other cultures before you get married.
That you still do not know the behaviour of these women after marriage and divorce is very strange.

It seems that getting to know them, being married and divorcing them all happened in a very short time. Otherwise you would not have to ask such questions here in the forum.

I think most married men making such comments  on this forum fail to understand that there is a big difference between a more modern woman from Saigon and a woman from the countryside or away from big cities (or other more conservative women in Saigon and cities). Since living in Kien Giang I've noticed the big cultural gap with modern Saigon.

When I married my ex Vietnamese wife, I'd know her for a year already and when I moved to Saigon for seven months to get to know her better, I had to make a choice at the end of that stay. I had to come back to Canada and I knew it would be the end if I did not make some type of commitment. I was not ready to get married but I took a big jump. Things did not work out but it was more about personality than culture.

My ex wife was extremely "modern" in her way of thinking and very different than a lot of Vietnamese women I'm meeting today, so applying your standard "Vietnamese culture" to her would not have worked. All of the "annoying" things I've noticed while being here now was not part of my ex wife's behaviour and family culture. She'd never have brought anyone for a meal without asking first, she'd never change the "rules" of an agreement we had midway, and so on. 

I agree I should have dated way more before getting married, but I don't regret anything.

WillyBaldy wrote:

I think most married men making such comments  on this forum fail to understand that there is a big difference between a more modern woman from Saigon and a woman from the countryside or away from big cities (or other more conservative women in Saigon and cities).

I know both sides.

My wife is very open-minded and her family (especially her mother) is extremely traditional.
We had to (and still have to) behave very traditionally towards her mother.

Before I was married I also met women from town and countryside.
Of course there are differences, but there are differences in every country.
I never made a problem out of it, it was rather instructive and amusing than annoying.

AkaMaverick wrote:

Before I was married I also met women from town and countryside.
Of course there are differences, but there are differences in every country.
I never made a problem out of it, it was rather instructive and amusing than annoying.

I still think that the difference of culture between Vietnam's countryside and Saigon has much more of a gap than in most Western countries. Things are moving and changing very fast here at the moment.

You're definitely right that I'm too easily annoyed by what I perceive as lack of integrity. I think after my six months stay I'll be more "Vietnam proof" for my next adventure next year.

WillyBaldy wrote:

I still think that the difference of culture between Vietnam's countryside and Saigon has much more of a gap than in most Western countries. Things are moving and changing very fast here at the moment.

You're definitely right that I'm too easily annoyed by what I perceive as lack of integrity. I think after my six months stay I'll be more "Vietnam proof" for my next adventure next year.

I can tell you based on my experiences here in the USA, there is still a large gap between countryside and city life.  I grew up next to farms and left for college in the big city, spent 26 years between NYC and DC.  Recently moved back to the heartland and I work next to cornfield heaven.  There are pluses and minuses to both lifestyles, similar to VN. 

For example, in NYC and DC, I never knew my neighbors and it was rare I even saw them.  In the countryside, I know my neighbors and well.  One makes homemade beer and wine, others bring Christmas treats, always say hi, daily.  People in the city are to busy to care as they are caught up in their careers and trying to keep up with the Joneses.  Although the countryside people do have goals and aspirations as well, the attitude is not the same.  I never felt like my neighbors in the city were family, while here in the countryside, most people we engage with would bend over backwards to help and are what you might say, more genuine at heart.  I could give more examples, but I think you get the picture.

Topic is a month old but worth continuing.

1)  Dinner was with my co-worker, his wife, me, his wife's co-coworker and a friend she brought along.  He's safe.  Second date with her she came by herself.  Third date TBD after New Years.

2) I would never have paid attention to this but apparently it IS an asian thing and it's not limited to Vietnam when girls invite others on dates.

Can't find the website now but this article I was reading on dating Thai girls also said to expect them to bring their friends.

This video at the 22:00 mark they mention the same thing.  About Chinese girls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zo8hwh0dwA

Suppobill wrote:

Hahaha! I must have found a rare one then! She says she's not certain about me because she knows I'm talking to other women, although it's strictly platonic with the others. Just ones I met on VC before I met her that I've developed a friendship with.

Talking to her today, I said that it would be nice to have dinner with her friend and her husband (he's Scottish). She said that would be fun, but when I mentioned it would be nice to have another expat to hang out with and drink beer, she said that I'm not allowed outside after dark. I think she was serious!

We're going to have to have a talk about that one!

Cheers,

Bill

You say you understand, but you don't.
She has clearly made it clear that she doesn't believe in platonic relationships.
Therefore if you are still communicating with other women...
That's why she has now given you the curfew.

She simply sounds ready for a commitment. 
Are you?

If you don't like those rules,  maybe you're in the wrong country.

Just saying.

Good luck.

Wxx3 wrote:

Suppobill wrote:

Hahaha! I must have found a rare one then! She says she's not certain about me because she knows I'm talking to other women, although it's strictly platonic with the others. Just ones I met on VC before I met her that I've developed a friendship with.

Talking to her today, I said that it would be nice to have dinner with her friend and her husband (he's Scottish). She said that would be fun, but when I mentioned it would be nice to have another expat to hang out with and drink beer, she said that I'm not allowed outside after dark. I think she was serious!

We're going to have to have a talk about that one!

Cheers,

Bill

You say you understand, but you don't.
She has clearly made it clear that she doesn't believe in platonic relationships.
Therefore if you are still communicating with other women...
That's why she has now given you the curfew.

She simply sounds ready for a commitment. 
Are you?

If you don't like those rules,  maybe you're in the wrong country.

Just saying.

Good luck.

Doesn't sound like she wants commitment, she wants control. My mother-inlaw still tells her 31-year old son what he can and can't do. I would be out of there and find someone more flexible and understanding.

Wxx3 wrote:

If you don't like those rules,  maybe you're in the wrong country.

Like any country in the world, there are different type of women here. Many are not very flexible on that regard. but some are. Just need to find the right one for you. I would agree with your "wrong country" remark if a man wanted to be polygamous, but going out after dark is not that extreme.

Wxx3 wrote:

Suppobill wrote:

Hahaha! I must have found a rare one then! She says she's not certain about me because she knows I'm talking to other women, although it's strictly platonic with the others. Just ones I met on VC before I met her that I've developed a friendship with.

Talking to her today, I said that it would be nice to have dinner with her friend and her husband (he's Scottish). She said that would be fun, but when I mentioned it would be nice to have another expat to hang out with and drink beer, she said that I'm not allowed outside after dark. I think she was serious!

We're going to have to have a talk about that one!

Cheers,

Bill

You say you understand, but you don't.
She has clearly made it clear that she doesn't believe in platonic relationships.
Therefore if you are still communicating with other women...
That's why she has now given you the curfew.

She simply sounds ready for a commitment. 
Are you?

If you don't like those rules,  maybe you're in the wrong country.

Just saying.

Good luck.

Yeah, I get that feeling every day... 

It's so boring... 

wow. remind me never to go on a date w you.

i would totally understand if a girl you not meet before wants to bring some friend/s, both for safety and to check you out

how many friends were there? did they order totally OTT?

otherwise, you are just a stingy bastard: you should hv just paid the whole bill if it was nothing outrageous

what a klutz.

and i would bet she doesn't see you again (but i could be wrong). if she does, big mistake on her part.

when i first came here, and hv girlfriend/fiancee, the funny thing was that EVERY time we went out as we meet all the family in different places, i was expected to pay for everything.

even when they asked ME out, i was expected to pay.

they said it was because i was the oldest; but i didn't quite buy tha,t but i didn't want to make a big fuss with all the language and cultural difference, and with my fiancee.

but it never really happened again like that when i was with different fiancee some years later

and i never had occasion where a date w new girl brought her friends (although i would totally understand that) ... maybe cause all my dates were older?

myvietnam wrote:

wow. remind me never to go on a date w you.

A little late to the party are we? 

myvietnam wrote:

wow. remind me never to go on a date w you.

i would totally understand if a girl you not meet before wants to bring some friend/s, both for safety and to check you out

how many friends were there? did they order totally OTT?

otherwise, you are just a stingy bastard: you should hv just paid the whole bill if it was nothing outrageous

what a klutz.

and i would bet she doesn't see you again (but i could be wrong). if she does, big mistake on her part.

Im not interested in paying for freeloaders. If you are happy to do that, good for you.

I have read most of this long dating thread and this post really jumped out at me for some reason.  It guess it helps me better understand the mindset of the VN east/west dating dynamic and how one can adapt to make it work for both of you while having fun doing so. 

vndreamer wrote:

Of course she will say "it is ok", that is what makes VN women so lovely.  However, in reality, no, she prefers you not talk to other women.  My GF now wife did the same, I had a few female friends when I met her and she said "it was ok".  But I previously dated a girl from Hanoi and from the beginning of the relationship, she point blank said to me "you need to stop talking to those other girls".  Like you, I was not understanding why it was a big deal, but I found out later why.

To add more to the story, I actually met a girl from Ben Hoa before I met my GF now wife and continued to chat with her for awhile and she always said to me "please tell your GF thanks for letting you chat with me."  Again, I was a little clueless, but I was getting the picture and as time when on, you learn or you will suffer!  LOL

She never told me to stop, but I knew she did not like it so I finally made the decision to delete the pics and stopped chatting with the others.  I told her what I did and her facial expression said it all, she was elated and so happy.  Thus, I knew I did the right thing.

I am not sure how long into a relationship you need to make that decision, but I would not let it go for more than a few months.  Once a VN woman sees you has her BF, you are her property.  Some people don't like it, but I actually like it and me and the wife have fun with it.  We have an amazing relationship so it works very well.  Like the comment I made about not letting a woman sit next to you.  My wife is so smart, we were at the IHG resort in DaNang and they have these people movers like you see at Disney to transport people around the property.  So one day we get on and I get on first (VN custom), so i intentionally sit facing a young lady in the seat in front of us because I wanted to see what my wife would do.  Sure enough, the wife does not sit next to me, she sits across from me for 1 reason only, she does not want the young woman facing me to look at me, no joke.  I smiled and said, "your to funny" because I knew why she did it and she said "chính xác" which means exactly in english. 

My advice, don't fight it, understand it, appreciate it and have fun with it.