Money: a skewed sense of priorities?

I agree, the number of restaurants is almost unbelievable. However, go to a mall during a busy day and most shops and restaurants will be empty. The staff sitt around and play on their phones.

Now remember, how much tourism there is in Vietnam, yes there are other countries more popular - but like the economy of vietnam the number of tourists is growing very quickly compared to other placea

The phones part... not sure whay to say, yes everyone seems to have a phone and Apple is probably the most desirable handset to have, followed by Samsung.

Have you noticed that even though data is cheap here, every restaurant has free wifi ? And how is acceptable to walk in and sit down for a meal and use the restaurants electricity to recharge their phones ?

Most people seem to buy phones outright and simply put a sim card in. There is a big marketplace (facebook) for selling here - mang shops or restaurants use facebook as their website. So millions of FB users become potential buyers or sellers. Have a new phone ? Sell the old one on FB.  And becuase of this need to have a phone to access facebook becomes a self fulfilling cycle.

The vast majority of the population will be the poorer end of thescale and lifestyle, bur there is a growing number of richer people..

Depending where you shop its often cheaper to eat out in a small group than buy the food and cook at home.

Matt_2 wrote:

Why is it that in Vietnam - a poor, underdeveloped country - there are so many restaurants, cafes etc? How is that the people here all seem to have an opinion about say Japanese food yet are virtually unable to reach the capital of their own country other than by plane because land infrastructure just isn't there? Why do so many people in HCM own expensive phones yet for the most part live in conditions one truly has to see to believe it (typically, a mattress thrown right there on the floor in a room shared with half a dozen other people)?

Do the Vietnamese value eating and drinking out (as well as other tiny luxuries and petty services) more than anything else?

I want to say this respectfully, but I think you are presenting a lot of disassociated ideas and attempting to find one common denominator.

This country has an emerging middle class which contrasts significantly with the impoverished and (for lack of a better word) the privileged.

At any given time the observations you are making are of different classes in much different circumstances from one another.

Sounds as if the remnants of third-world status here offends your senses as you find yourself in the heart a much more Progressive City.

Maybe the closest analogy that I can make to the situation you are observing is this:

Think of the Metropolis as a porch light bulb at night.

Then perhaps you can see the impoverished class as the different types of bugs attracted to light, doing their best to scratch their way up from the depths of poverty and lack of Education.

Then, the privileged class and even the middle class would be the spiders.

I'm sure that's a fully faulty analogy, but it's at least one way of trying to make sense of the topic.

As long as the spiders have plenty to eat, they are not motivated to change the system

Have to agree about the phone part. So many locals have a nice phone, bike and clothes, but live in totals dumps such as phòng trọs.

Funny that you only seem to see this in Vietnam.

Food - it's cheaper, easier, and faster to live on street food/cafe than to cook at home. The food is also usually better. It is also a part of the social culture.

Infrastructure - a flight from Ho Chi Minh to Hanoi costs less than half the price of the gas alone to drive, let alone tolls and hotel expenses. Most Vietnamese don't own cars anyway. Buses easily connect rural areas with cities. There is also no "driving culture" in Vietnam. In short, your observations have nothing to do with a lack of infrastructure.

Phones - I challenge you to travel to ANY country and find low income people NOT carrying a modern cell phone. This is not unique to Vietnam.

Sleeping Conditions - Again, not unique to Vietnam. All over Asia, people sleep on mats on the floor. I know of people that actually have a bed, but still prefer the floor. Also, in Asia, communal family sleeping areas are very common.

It seems to me that you have traveled to a country with a traditional Asian culture, but are now confused as to why it doesn't conform to the Western values you brought with you.

OP:

About smartphones:

Many cheap Android phones are available here that you can't buy in America.

Why is it that foreigners in VN (and other countries) seem to spend so much time critiquing the locals? 

The lifestyles of the VNese don't seem to have much effect on my life or interest me very much. Seems like I'm too busy thinking about other stuff to pay them much mind.

Yes being this close to China opens up a whole new world of android phones that I was barely aware of before coming here.

You do see a lot of apple fans here though.

Suppobill wrote:

Funny that you only seem to see this in Vietnam.

Food - it's cheaper, easier, and faster to live on street food/cafe than to cook at home. The food is also usually better. It is also a part of the social culture.

Infrastructure - a flight from Ho Chi Minh to Hanoi costs less than half the price of the gas alone to drive, let alone tolls and hotel expenses. Most Vietnamese don't own cars anyway. Buses easily connect rural areas with cities. There is also no "driving culture" in Vietnam. In short, your observations have nothing to do with a lack of infrastructure.

Phones - I challenge you to travel to ANY country and find low income people NOT carrying a modern cell phone. This is not unique to Vietnam.

Sleeping Conditions - Again, not unique to Vietnam. All over Asia, people sleep on mats on the floor. I know of people that actually have a bed, but still prefer the floor. Also, in Asia, communal family sleeping areas are very common.

It seems to me that you have traveled to a country with a traditional Asian culture, but are now confused as to why it doesn't conform to the Western values you brought with you.

Surprisingly I agree with some if not all of your comments. Food I much prefer cooked at home and far superior to street food, guess it depends on who you live with. As for the rest of your post I reckon you just about nailed it.

If I understood your comments correctly many of you believe that overall the locals have a sound attitude towards money that will without doubt result in the prompt development of their country.

As for making speedy comparisons between spending habits here and in Western countries don't forget about the humongous infrastructure, development, income per capita, overall standards of living etc. gap between the two.

Matt_2 wrote:

If I understood your comments correctly many of you believe that overall the locals have a sound attitude towards money that will without doubt result in the prompt development of their country.

As for making speedy comparisons between spending habits here and in Western countries don't forget about the humongous infrastructure, development, income per capita, overall standards of living etc. gap between the two.

I disagree with just about all the underlying assumptions you are operating on.

Perhaps the Vietnamese, born into a tropical paradise of abundant food and great weather, come at life with a different set of priorities than those of us hailing from bleaker regions?

To me, the locals here certainly seem a lot happier in general than the denizens of any "developed" country I've ever lived in, but everyone's perspective is their own.

Matt_2 wrote:

If I understood your comments correctly many of you believe that overall the locals have a sound attitude towards money that will without doubt result in the prompt development of their country.

As for making speedy comparisons between spending habits here and in Western countries don't forget about the humongous infrastructure, development, income per capita, overall standards of living etc. gap between the two.

No, I think you misunderstood. Your whole thought process is off. It's the classic case of comparing apples to oranges.

The bed thing.. might just be me or a bar mattress.. but the floor is easier to sleep on than the normal run of the mill mattress you get here.

Foam or rubber or a mixture should be comfy but they are far from it.

This is not unique to Vietnam. When one lives in a country where the possibility of owning ones own home or even renting a comfortable apartment is so remote, people compensate by purchasing cheap "luxury" items. It makes them feel that life is worth living, understandably in my view. Phones, wifi and social media are all essential to allow you to have a virtual life that you cannot aspire to in reality.
A single person who shares with many others can eat out much more cheaply and conveniently than to cook at home.

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

This is not unique to Vietnam. When one lives in a country where the possibility of owning ones own home or even renting a comfortable apartment is so remote, people compensate by purchasing cheap "luxury" items. It makes them feel that life is worth living, understandably in my view. Phones, wifi and social media are all essential to allow you to have a virtual life that you cannot aspire to in reality.

Excellent point.  The same thing can be said in the US where the 20-somethings have their first job and live in a craphole apartment but can scrape together a $499 lease payment on a new base model BMW.  These are the same people being seen in clubs smoking a $20 cigar and drinking a $15 martini.  Things that people in their next decade of earning forego to aspire to the next level, be it marriage, owning a house, etc.

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

This is not unique to Vietnam. When one lives in a country where the possibility of owning ones own home or even renting a comfortable apartment is so remote, people compensate by purchasing cheap "luxury" items. It makes them feel that life is worth living, understandably in my view. Phones, wifi and social media are all essential to allow you to have a virtual life that you cannot aspire to in reality.
A single person who shares with many others can eat out much more cheaply and conveniently than to cook at home.

That  appears to be what it's all about these days.
My kids live like rockstars,  wear the good stuff, eat at trendy places & drink at sassy coffee lounges @$6 a cup.   Also have to have the latest gadgetry.   

However, they don't have much in savings & you begin to wonder when reality kicks in & they want to buy a house, car , furniture etc .   They currently lease nice  places and live well. 

If the world ended tomorrow , it's been good strategy.     I see so many young VIetnamese kids with all the “bling” nice bike & seem to follow the same pattern.

Maybe it's the way to go......😆

I remember many year's ago when I was knocking off from one job & going to another......an old bloke said to me...” you don't have to be a millionaire, you just have to live like one”.   

There's a lot to be said for that.....you never know what's around the next corner.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

This is not unique to Vietnam. When one lives in a country where the possibility of owning ones own home or even renting a comfortable apartment is so remote, people compensate by purchasing cheap "luxury" items. It makes them feel that life is worth living, understandably in my view. Phones, wifi and social media are all essential to allow you to have a virtual life that you cannot aspire to in reality.

Excellent point.  The same thing can be said in the US where the 20-somethings have their first job and live in a craphole apartment but can scrape together a $499 lease payment on a new base model BMW.  These are the same people being seen in clubs smoking a $20 cigar and drinking a $15 martini.  Things that people in their next decade of earning forego to aspire to the next level, be it marriage, owning a house, etc.

I resemble that remark, sir!

Seriously, there have been a couple of times in my life when I minimized my housing situation while continuing to treat myself to other pleasures and toys.

Priorities...

Well, I can tell you this: First, try cooking yourself and then let's talk. Not counting your time. Second, many cafes & restaurants won't be generting income.

People crave jobs and a certain position in society.

my hotel is a great new operation. But i would NOT accept it for free, with me assuming the debt. They lack customers.

HBO, big screen TV, made in Japan. 13 months old... Nice furniture, @ 220 k on Booking.com

They must be hammoraging cash.

The Vegetarian restaurant charges 40 k for a full plate. I would have trouble cooking the same for say 60 k.

KruChris wrote:

Well, I can tell you this: First, try cooking yourself and then let's talk. Not counting your time. Second, many cafes & restaurants won't be generting income.

People crave jobs and a certain position in society.

my hotel is a great new operation. But i would NOT accept it for free, with me assuming the debt. They lack customers.

HBO, big screen TV, made in Japan. 13 months old... Nice furniture, @ 220 k on Booking.com

They must be hammoraging cash.

The Vegetarian restaurant charges 40 k for a full plate. I would have trouble cooking the same for say 60 k.

I found a really nice all-you-care-to-eat hotpot Vegetarian buffet restaurant here in  Vũng Tàu for ₫70,000 ~ I think the waitress thought I was over 70 years old because she gave me a 30 percent discount!

I felt as if I was robbing the owner!

Ontheroad57 wrote:

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

This is not unique to Vietnam. When one lives in a country where the possibility of owning ones own home or even renting a comfortable apartment is so remote, people compensate by purchasing cheap "luxury" items. It makes them feel that life is worth living, understandably in my view. Phones, wifi and social media are all essential to allow you to have a virtual life that you cannot aspire to in reality.
A single person who shares with many others can eat out much more cheaply and conveniently than to cook at home.

That  appears to be what it's all about these days.
My kids live like rockstars,  wear the good stuff, eat at trendy places & drink at sassy coffee lounges @$6 a cup.   Also have to have the latest gadgetry.   

However, they don't have much in savings & you begin to wonder when reality kicks in & they want to buy a house, car , furniture etc .   They currently lease nice  places and live well. 

If the world ended tomorrow , it's been good strategy.     I see so many young VIetnamese kids with all the “bling” nice bike & seem to follow the same pattern.

Maybe it's the way to go......😆

I remember many year's ago when I was knocking off from one job & going to another......an old bloke said to me...” you don't have to be a millionaire, you just have to live like one”.   

There's a lot to be said for that.....you never know what's around the next corner.

It's understandable really, why would you save when the interest rates in the developed world are more or less zero? The economic world has changed hugely since I was young, I find it very disturbing and can't see how it can continue, but then again I'm too old to care very much, I just hope our young people find some way to make it work for them.

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

It's understandable really, why would you save when the interest rates in the developed world are more or less zero? The economic world has changed hugely since I was young, I find it very disturbing and can't see how it can continue, but then again I'm too old to care very much, I just hope our young people find some way to make it work for them.

As soon as I can get my mitts on negative interest rates, I'm leveraging to the hilt and disappearing even further into the sunset with my self perpetuating stash of funny money. Not that I need to, but on general principles.

I can live the high life and buy Mr Viet coffee instead of Nescafe!

Vetnam is no longer "poor and underdeveloped". It has the second-highest GDP growth in the world and is one of the few countries where the younger generation can be confident they'll be better off than their parents. Unlike in the 'West'.

Meanwhile the scourge of Apple handsets is simply an aspirational phenomenon. If we can't yet afford an apartment of our own, let alone a house, we can at least begin enjoying the better life while talking into our iPhone on our Honda Wave on the way to our favourite nightclub.

Never been a fan of apple products
But it's funny to see how many people here use apple and have to plug in to charge in restaurants all the time or carry power bank because battery life so poor

Goes to show famous brand not always best choice.

Gives me great pleasure when wife needs to always charge where my android last two days or more

@jlgarbutt:
Yep, charging phones... Call me a Luddite, but I have everyting switched off on my non-Apple phone (I hate Apple's lock-in business model) except for voice calls and SMS. If anyone really wants to get in touch with me, they can. My battery charge lasts five to six days instead of 10 hours. I do emails at home on the laptop and don't believe in Facebook or other crap like that. Why does Google or Myface want to know where I am every five minutes of the day, or what I'm interested in online? It's none of their business. GPS? I have a separate unit for that and it does what it's supposed to do and doesn't suck up all my personal details in the process.

Grumble... Angry old man.

Ahhh Facebook apart from WhatsApp I don't like their services.
See people post stuff like sitting with so and so eating at some restaurant. Then friend sitting next to them says yes..and it's yummy or some other crap

I like the majority of mobile apps like Gmail and maps etc.

But privacy these days. Phone often says how was Highlands coffee?

More worryingly the other day opened a bank account here and all good. Get expected emails on the address provided to the bank. This address is linked to phone only. But also get same emails at the same time on my other address that is on my tablet only. No connection between the two

Maybe we are getting old haha
MySpace ???
Tiktok ???
Snapchat..???

What happened to open and closing your mouth to talk these days ?

Yep, look at four people sitting around a restaurant table and they're all looking at their phones instead of talking to each other. I know I'm getting old when I just don't understand this.

Re charging phones, I should have added the advice I received from a phone expert in Saigon: if you want your battery to last, keep the charge between 40% and 80%. Don't let it run down too far and never over-charge.

When meeting friends and phones are a problem, here's the solution:

Everyone stack their phones face down in a pile. First person to pick up their phone, pays the check!

I completely agree. I have lived in Laos for the last 12 years, and it is just like Vietnam socially, but with 10% of Vietnam's population. As they are not that far from humble accommodation, a mat on the floor is no problem for them. The locals will own a phone before a motor bike as it opens a world that is sold as being a lot better than theirs. Many want to live in America as the see how much money they can earn,, but have no idea of the costs of accommodation. Other costs include the fact that there are no shops nearby to buy anything , so they must own a car as their is no reliable bus system as there is in Laos.

I am even a bigger Luddite as my phone is a $25 Samsung, which has a button for making a video.

Well, my guess is, that many hardworking locals want to run a business. They want feedom, not some boss telling them, what to do.

I wouldn't want most businesses fo free. Cetainly not while assuming their debt!

OTOH, take estaurants. I have frequented a Vegetarian estauant. They charge 40,000 fo a plate with rice, veggies and soy meats. Plus a soup. Beat that! There is real value

In these difficult times, we can expect a domino effect, with mass bankuptcies.

Money should be a way to transfer goods and services. Sadly despite there being around $30,000 per head of population there is a small number of people who are dedicating their lives to accumulation way beyond need. For nations that still have a large amount of family land to grow the food they need, and the laws that allow them to build a basic accommodation, this virus will pass with minor financial disruption. However where the supply of goods and services are controlled by a small group of people the financial disruption, for families that live paycheck to paycheck, this virus will see many on the street soon.

KruChris wrote:

Well, my guess is, that many hardworking locals want to run a business. They want feedom, not some boss telling them, what to do.

I wouldn't want most businesses fo free. Cetainly not while assuming their debt!

OTOH, take estaurants. I have frequented a Vegetarian estauant. They charge 40,000 fo a plate with rice, veggies and soy meats. Plus a soup. Beat that! There is real value

In these difficult times, we can expect a domino effect, with mass bankuptcies.

Vegetables cost nothing.

I eat com tam, soup,chicken,tomato,cucumber,two eggs,rice plus a bottle of green tea for 48k

colinoscapee wrote:

Vegetables cost nothing.

Because vegetables are labor intensive and labor in Vietnam is cheap.  When my wife first came to Hawaii, she couldn't believe how inexpensive pork was.  On the other hand after four years she still thinks the vegetables are too expensive.