Retire with less than $2000USD/month???

Hi Pete,

Welcome to Expat.com

I have moved your topic on the Brazil forum so that you can get more information about Brazil itself, since it is your next destination. 

I invite you to go through the various topics in the Cost of living in Brazil forum, it might help you to find some pieces of information. 

Thanks,

Priscilla
Expat.com team

Thank you

Hi, Pete,

The new "Temporary Visa and Authorization of Residence on the Basis of Retirement" is so new that the final, detailed regulations for it haven't been issued yet (and I keep looking!) for either the Foreign Ministry or the Federal Police.  So, for now we can only go on what's in the Normative Resolution of October 20, 2019, which you can read (in Portuguese) here:

http://www.in.gov.br/web/dou/-/resoluca … -229901650

You may end up being among the first to try to benefit from this Resolution, and there are disadvantages with being first.  One glaring hole is that the Resolution explicitly anticipates a "temporary visa", almost undoubtedly in the VITEM series, for retirees, but that visa hasn't been created yet, although there are numbers available for it in the series; at least, I can't find it on the website of any Brazilian Consulate in the world.  (Do not try to follow the directions for the old VIPER for retirees that are still on the website of the Vancouver Consulate General:  that visa was abolished for new applicants in November 2017, and this Resolution is intended to replace it.)  Your fastest way to get good information, which quite possibly will have to be invented  on the spot to answer your question, would be to send an email to the Brazilian Consulate responsible for your region, saying, "I would like to apply for residency in Brazil as a retiree under Normative Resolution No. 40 of October 2, 2019.  Could you please tell me the process to be followed?"  The Consulates are not doing any routine business these days, but they may be responding to email.

On the specific question of your post, in the absence of regulations, we have to rely on the language of the Normative Resolution itself.  If you can document a pension worth USD$1,800/month, and you have statements from the investment accounts that hold your savings, showing that you can count on the difference -- USD$2,400 a year -- in interest and dividends, then you've met the black letter of the law and you're home and dry:  the total from all guaranteed income sources, including your pension, must equal USD$2,000.  If you have some other source of income that generates USD$200/month, you still should be in the clear.

If, on the other hand, your plan is to draw down your savings for the difference, you may be able to make that fly -- until you run into the one functionary at the Consulate, or worse, at the Federal Police, who won't accept your interpretation.  At that point, without regulations to back you up, you'll probably be rejected.

Two other concerns with the Resolution that you should be aware of.  First, residency is approved for up to two years, not permanently.  The Resolution says that the period can renewed; the terms of renewal will be defined in a new Normative Resolution, that hasn't been issued yet.  Second, applicants are required to provide proof of health insurance valid in Brazil.

Thanks so much for your detailed explanation. I wonder if they will accept rental income (shown as a regular deposit on my bank statement.) Probably depends on the mood of the bureaucrat that particular day.

I wont be applying for several months - likely after Christmas. Maybe by then the new regulations will be hammered out a little more clearly.

Thanks again.

Pete

Sure thing - all the best.  Nothing will be moving for the next couple of months, anyway.

I'd have the bank statements and copies of the leases:  hard for them to reject that combo.

You're probably aware of this already,  but for reasons unknown to me, Canada is not a party to the Apostille Convention.   That means that all of the Canadian documents you'll submit to the Federal Police will need to be legalized at the Brazilian Consulate responsible for your province, preferably before you leave.

Thanks for the heads up about the paperwork.  I hope Brazil is able to keep a bit of a lid on this Corona virus and not go the way of he USA.

Thank you for this info. It was new to me, and simplifies things immensely.  At least, potentially. 😊. As crass as it sounds, waiting for my elderly dog to live out her time, so any move probably won't happen for some time yet.  And by then, all the links should be worked out, right? Fingers crossed.  Obrigada pelo link.

Viajanete wrote:

Thank you for this info. It was new to me, and simplifies things immensely.  At least, potentially. 😊. As crass as it sounds, waiting for my elderly dog to live out her time, so any move probably won't happen for some time yet.  And by then, all the links should be worked out, right? Fingers crossed.  Obrigada pelo link.

It doesn't sound crass at all.  She's doing you a big favor too, giving you time to get your finances organized to your satisfaction and your plans set,  and maybe time for the Brazilian authorities to figure out how they'll make everything work. 

All this, and companionship too - good dog!  Please give her a pat for me.   

Viajanete,

I'm glad to see from your new post that your plans are coming together.   Coronavirus is certainly complicating everything!   How's the situation where you are?
We worked with the Chicago Consulate General when I moved,  and it was relatively painless.  I had the advantage of living in Chicagoland, though; I imagine that you'll need to plan every visit.
An Approved FBI Channeller is the way to go for your FBI Background Check.  It's more expensive,  but the turnaround time is much better, so you can time it to arrive in Brazil with a fresh document:  the Federal Police want it to be no more than six months old.
For your exploratory trip, AirB&B is a great option to try out different neighborhoods at a reasonable price.  If they're up and running - the pandemic has hit them hard.
You shouldn't need apostilles or Sworn Translations
for the documents you present to the Consulate for your visa.  They accept official and/or notarized documents from Missouri, in English.  You'll need both for the same documents when you present them to the Federal Police for your CRNM, though.  Apostilles for federal documents come from the US State Department, and for state documents come from the issuing state, so you need to keep them straight.
Good luck with your planning.

Hi All,

My husband just got his retirement visa, RN 40, approved by the Minstry of Justice.  We were pleased to get the final approval, but were surprised that it is only for ONE year.  He can apply for renewal when the year is up.   As has been mentioned earlier in this thread of messages, this is a newly instuited visa, and it seems like all of the rules of implementation are in a bit of flux. 

If anyone has questions about documents and apoltiles necessary for this visa, I would be happy to help.  We used the excellent service of an immigration consultant, Elvis Aquino at Newland Chase.   Happy to provide more info about this as well.

Congratulations!
You're really our trailblazers with the new retirement visa.  By the time that your husband is ready to renew, let's hope that they have the regulations straightened out.

Abthree - Thanks for the wishes and additional info.  Yes, still about a year away, but I'm taking some positive steps.  "Family" and friends in Gov Val are supportive and eager to help. I realize that living in a place is very different from visiting for a 3-week span.  The longest period I lived in Brazil was for 10 months, but I did a 2-year stint in Morocco 30 years ago with U.S. Peace Corps. I'm aware that after settling in, I'll need to get myself SOME kind of structure.
I did email the Chicago consulate a couple of weeks ago to inquire about the specific process and documents I'll need to collect for the retirement visa.  I got a form reply, something to the effect of,  "The visa office is closed at this time due to the corona virus. Please check our website for information on when we'll re-open and contact us again at that time."
I'm especially curious how I'll be asked to handle the $2000 / month.  Is it enough to know I have it, or will they want me to actually receive it in Brazil each month?     I see that I can get Social Security to direct deposit to an account I set up in Brazil, if that's the route I have to go, but I'd kind of prefer to keep those funds in the States and access them as needed. I know it's all early, and complicated by the virus, but if anyone has already had that experience, I'd appreciate knowing.
And ABTHREE - You mentioned an "Approved FBI Channeler."  How does one make those arrangements?  I believe I'll also need to furnish birth (California), marriage (Nebraska) and divorce (Washington state) certificates to the consulate.  Is it worth getting apostilles on all copies of all documents?  KNEDELISKY -  Your advice on that would be appreciated!  And, yes, I would be interested in getting contact information for Elvis Aquino. An experienced professional overseeing the required paperwork would be reassuring.  Once again, thank you !

http://www.applicantservices.com/
There is a list of approved FBI Channelers. The above is one.
They did not need a birth certificate, just finger prints. Price varies. ($60-80 U$D)
In the areas you need apostilles; Apostille Pros

1500 W. El Camino Ave #402

Sacramento, CA 95833
https://www.apostillepros.com/
They do all in those areas and more. Contact via website foe contact info and rates. They did all for me divorce decree and birth certificate. They were fast and all were accepted here in BR.
As to money. This visa is new so not certain on must having $2000 each month.
SSA does allow split direct deposits, but be sure you desire such. I went the CRNM route. I do not really need all SSA each month so wire transfer when need of money.

Hi again Viajanete,

Here is the information on the Immigration Consultant who we used to obtain my husband's retirement visa:

Elvis Aquino
Newland Chase
Alameda Santos, 2.441
Sao Paulo
Direct:  (11) 3065-0690  ext. 32690
elvis.aquino@newlandchase.com

He was great and took care of everything.  Very responsive.  We did everything via email.

A couple of other comments:

For the visa, my husband had to prove the social security income, but we were not asked to transfer any of the money to an account in Brasil.  It seemed like they only wanted to know that the income was coming in.  We had to produce a letter from the Social Security Administration (you can get this on the SSA website) stating the exact amount of money my husband receives from  SS each month.  We also had to have this letter apostilled. 

We managed to get around some of the apostille issues by having out of state documents notorized.  Once the documents were notorized, the state was happy to do the apostille.  The documents can be easily notorized if you provide a cover letter saying what the document is, and with your signature.  We did this with the FBI report and the Social Security letter.  In the end, we were not asked to have my husband's birth certificate apostilled (it was from Canada and he is currently a US citizen). 

When we did all of this, the UPS stores were still doing notary functions in their stores and it was quite simple.  I am not sure they are still doing notary.

One last thing, the FBI report is very easy and quick to get right from the FBI website.  I believe it was $18 and took less than a week.  However, through this method, you will probably need to have it apostilled.  Also, remember, the report has to have been done in the 90 days prior to your visa request; you don't want to do it too early or it will expire before you begin the visa process.

We were disappointed when we received approval for the visa - only to find out that it is good for only ONE year.  I asked the immigration consultant if it would be the same process to renew it as to get the original one.....and basically he said he didn't know yet.  Hopefully they will figure it out within the next year

Best wishes as you continue the process.  If I can be of any help, don't hesitate to ask.

Viajanete

The list of Approved FBI Channellers is here:
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/compa … channelers

I'm amazed that knedelisky's husband had his FBI Background Check in less than a week.  I got the one I used through an Approved Channeller, because the one I ordered from the FBI took two months to get to me -- I received it after I had my visa!  But, if they've improved their process, going directly to the FBI is much cheaper, so it's worth trying when the time comes.

Unlike many, the Chicago Consulate General is usually very good about keeping its visa information up to date; they still don't mention the retirement visa, so the regulations probably still haven't been issued.  knedelisky's experience is most on-point, because her husband just went through it successfully.  If you get the same documents together that they did, the package should probably work for you.

You won't be required to transfer any specific amount to Brazil.  You probably won't be able to with any ease until you have a bank account anyway, and you can't  open a bank account until you have your CRNM from the Federal Police.  So they'll just ask you to prove that you will have the funds.

Here is the web information for the FBI background check.  We've done it twice now (recently and a year or so ago when we thought we would begin the residency process, but didn't).  Very quick and easy.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ident … ary-checks

knedelisky wrote:

Here is the web information for the FBI background check.  We've done it twice now (recently and a year or so ago when we thought we would begin the residency process, but didn't).  Very quick and easy.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ident … ary-checks

That explains it -- electronic submission wasn't available to me in 2017.  Thanks for the update.

Thank you SO VERY MUCH for all the information and contacts. I will continue with my pre-preparations (research, setting up the lists and specific timeline), and I'll definitely be back. 😊
KNEDELISKY - Where were you physically as you worked with Elvis Aquino? Already in Brazil on another type of visa, or in the US, or somewhere else? Thanks again for the detailed information.

Hi - we did some of the work when we were in Brasil.  We live in Lencois, Chapada Diamantina, Bahia, for part of the year.  But, most of it was done when we were in the US.  We have been 'living' in Brasil on a tourist visa for the past 15 years.  We are there 6 weeks, and then in the US 6 weeks....back and forth, pretty much for the whole year.  We would like to be able to spend more time in Lencios now; we just finished building a new house there. 

All of the work we did with Elvis was by email though.  I think we had maybe 1 or 2 phone calls too.

Thanks for that information. I wasn't sure if it was more effective to work with someone in the country of origin (to coordinate with the consulate) or someone in Brazil. Perhaps it doesn't matter and just let someone at Newland Chase (or whichever service) make the assignment.  Still waiting for a reply from them to my online inquiry for initial info. Also still watching for Visa Services at the consulate to announce it's opening.