Motor vehicle insurance

colinoscapee wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

sanooku wrote:

Detailed clarification not necessary. Where have I said (implicitly or explicitly) that it was a bad experience because it was a Vietnamese insurance company?

You inferred as much, within the context of that thread.

Nightmare,torrid time and stonewalling, used by you know who, are not words you would use when praising an insurer,lol.

I should stick to praising the whole insurance industry. ROFL. 

BTW, how long have you bought this insurance for? 12 years or 13 years?

I suspect it will take you about 13 years to come up with the 'excuses' you talked about.

sanooku wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

You inferred as much, within the context of that thread.

Nightmare,torrid time and stonewalling, used by you know who, are not words you would use when praising an insurer,lol.

I should stick to praising the whole insurance industry. ROFL. 

BTW, how long have you bought this insurance for? 12 years or 13 years?

I suspect it will take you about 13 years to come up with the 'excuses' you talked about.

I suggest you take your meds and have a nap. You are totally ignorant of how things work here. Even better, ask your wife to enlighten you.

colinoscapee wrote:

sanooku wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Nightmare,torrid time and stonewalling, used by you know who, are not words you would use when praising an insurer,lol.

I should stick to praising the whole insurance industry. ROFL. 

BTW, how long have you bought this insurance for? 12 years or 13 years?

I suspect it will take you about 13 years to come up with the 'excuses' you talked about.

I suggest you take your meds and have a nap. You are totally ignorant of how things work here. Even better, ask your wife to enlighten you.

My wife has already told me about how the whole insurance industry never pays up. Same for bankers. LOL

If anyone wants to really become aware how things are done here, don't just look at one article. Read more. Don't fixate on the first article you come across that confirm your current notions.

In addition to John's motorbike hire website, have a look at these:

http://oivietnam.com/2014/05/whats-your … -accident/

....One way to limit negative consequences in case you ever become involved in a traffic accident again is to make sure that you are properly insured. Under Vietnamese law, motor vehicle owners are required to purchase insurance for civil liability, which covers loss of property, physical injury and death of third parties caused by your vehicle. If you become involved in a road accident, please keep in mind that you are required to promptly inform the nearest police station, as well as your insurance company....

https://www.indochinamotorbiketours.com … -stop.html

....If you were to get into an accident that requires an insurance payout, you would want to have all your documents in order.

Up to now all that he could come up was '..finding any excuse not to pay out'  and that we must rely on luck. I think more so than relying on luck, ensure you have the correct documents.

This is the loophole of the law upon which the insurance company OFTEN uses to deny the claim:

"Decree 03/2021 provides for the exclusions of insurance, including:
[snip]
Actively causing damage of the motor vehicle owner, the driver, or the victim"

In any given accident in Vietnam, it's entirely possible to point out that one party is "actively causing damage" to the other party.  Careless driving, aggressive driving, and a total ignoring of the law are all the active causes of damage which any insurance company would use to deny its responsibility.

My capitalized use of the word "often" in the first sentence is due to my extended family's experiences of accidents. 

1- The day after her 18th birthday, my great niece was hit by a car while she was on her motorbike waiting for traffic light to change.  Her leg and ankle were seriously damaged.  She stayed in hospital for weeks, limped for two years, and will continue to carry a visible scar above her ankle for life.  Car owner paid 50% of hospital cost out of her pocket the day my great niece was admitted.  Whether she was reimbursed by her insurance company, we didn't know and didn't care.  Our family pitched in to pay for the rest of the expense.

2- My great nephew was in a motorcycle accident at night.  The other party died at the hospital.  My great nephew sold his bike and borrowed money to pay for the funeral expense.  Both insurance companies paid nothing, which was allowed by the law due to the fact that the other party was on meth.

3- My niece's SO, a German physician, was hit by a motorcycle while he was riding his Vespa.  Physician, heal thyself, so he did.  Nothing came from either his and the other party's insurance companies.

I could cite more.

An accident that happened in July 2017, by March 2018 insurer still dragging feet on 70 million Vietnamese dong payout:

https://luatminhkhue.vn/bao-hiem-trach- … u-the-nao-

It seems her brother caused the accident. She doesn't say her brother was fully insured. However, does say insurer A agreed to pay 70 million.

Here the same law firm website says even if it was the driver's fault, since he was fully insured, insurer will cover (unless a special category applies. e.g. deliberately causing damage, fleeing the scene of an accident....)

Aparently, then there is this(google translated)

Pursuant to Article 260 of the 2015 Civil Code amended and supplemented in 2017, the determination of the faulty factor and violation of road traffic safety regulations has an important meaning in determining the Subject to criminal responsibility when this traffic accident has serious consequences such as death or injury with a body injury rate of 61% or more.

Then there is this - recent proposed draft 'tightening insurers' responsibility for indemnifying motor vehicle owners' empasizing:

...that insurance enterprises would have to closely coordinate with vehicle owners or drivers and the third party to identify causes of the accidents and determine the degree of damage. Insurers would have to cover all expenses for damage assessment.

Within three working days after receiving a notice of accident from its client, an insurance company would make advance payment of compensation to help the victim(s) (the third party) pay medical examination and treatment expenses. The advance payment would equal 70 percent of the compensation per person, in case of casualty, or 50 percent of the compensation per person, in case of injury. Particularly, if it remains unclear whether the accident falls under the liability coverage, these rates would be 30 percent for dead victims and 10 percent for those undergoing emergency treatment.

Particularly, in case vehicles causing accidents are unidentifiable or uninsured, dead victims, if any, would be entitled to a support amount equaling 30 percent of the compensation from the Motor Vehicle Insurance Fund, a foundation set up with compulsory contributions of insurance enterprises.

Of course, being a draft, seems it hasn't become law yet.

Ciambella wrote:

This is the loophole of the law upon which the insurance company OFTEN uses to deny the claim:

"Decree 03/2021 provides for the exclusions of insurance, including:
[snip]
Actively causing damage of the motor vehicle owner, the driver, or the victim"

In any given accident in Vietnam, it's entirely possible to point out that one party is "actively causing damage" to the other party.  Careless driving, aggressive driving, and a total ignoring of the law are all the active causes of damage which any insurance company would use to deny its responsibility.

My capitalized use of the word "often" in the first sentence is due to my extended family's experiences of accidents. 

1- The day after her 18th birthday, my great niece was hit by a car while she was on her motorbike waiting for traffic light to change.  Her leg and ankle were seriously damaged.  She stayed in hospital for weeks, limped for two years, and will continue to carry a visible scar above her ankle for life.  Car owner paid 50% of hospital cost out of her pocket the day my great niece was admitted.  Whether she was reimbursed by her insurance company, we didn't know and didn't care.  Our family pitched in to pay for the rest of the expense.

2- My great nephew was in a motorcycle accident at night.  The other party died at the hospital.  My great nephew sold his bike and borrowed money to pay for the funeral expense.  Both insurance companies paid nothing, which was allowed by the law due to the fact that the other party was on meth.

3- My niece's SO, a German physician, was hit by a motorcycle while he was riding his Vespa.  Physician, heal thyself, so he did.  Nothing came from either his and the other party's insurance companies.

I could cite more.

The loophole actually hails from Decree 103/2008. Here is the source of my theory (research): https://thuvienphapluat.vn/tintuc/vn/th … y-bat-buoc

which states:

Nghị định 03/2021/NĐ-CP có hiệu lực từ ngày 01/3/2021 và thay thế Nghị định 103/2008/NĐ-CP và Nghị định 214/2013/NĐ-CP.

(google translate: Decree 03/2021 / ND-CP takes effect from March 1, 2021 and replaces Decree 103/2008 / ND-CP and Decree 214/2013 / ND-CP.)

I look up Decree 103/2008 using Internet search and the same 'Intentional act of causing damage by the motor vehicle owner, the driver or the aggrieved person.' that's in Decree 03/2021 is there.

So, the loophole has been around for years! It's NOT just been introduced this year (capitalised NOT and highlighted in bold for emphasis). Just wanna clarify this for the 'casual reader'. Otherwise, it may imply (infer) that the loophole is specifically part of Decree 03/2021 and all three accidents (actually 3+ accidents) to extended family happened after 01/03/2021.