Buying Property in Hungary

KelvinZalaszengrot wrote:

Hi
I have a property already in Hungary and wanted to purchase the one next to me. I contacted the original agent who dealt with my purchase the first time and he said as I had found the property he would not charge his usual commission, (he lied, and I quote, “nobody works for nothing”) anyway I said I had to pay a deposit which I did January of this year £1900:00. When the Coronavirus started effecting people here in Hungary and in Britain, I said to him I would like my deposit back as due to unforeseen circumstances I am no longer able to purchase the property. He replied, It's the Hungarian Law that on purchasing property in Hungary deposits are not paid back. I have 3 questions: firstly who keeps the deposit the owner of the property or the solicitor? Thirdly, is this actually Hungarian Law? Or just some scheme, invented by him to yet again rip me off as a foreigner and charge 200% commission?
Keep Safe
KelvinZalaszengrot

Did you sign a contract to buy the place?

As far as I understand it in HU property law if either party pulls out of a signed contract then the deposit is forfeit.  The beneficiary is the  injured party. In your case the seller is the injured party.  There might be a clause for force majeure - unexpected circumstances - that could allow you to get out of it.   

But IANAL (I am not a lawyer) so you really need  to ask one of them.

KelvinZalaszengrot wrote:

I have 3 questions: firstly who keeps the deposit the owner of the property or the solicitor?

Don't confuse solicitor with agent. In Hungary you must involve a registered lawyer in real estate deals, and he's more qualified to answer your question than any of us here. And these lawyers are never the "agents"...

For the "deposit", in hungarian there is "foglalo" and "eloleg", one of them is never returned...

Also, IANAL.

But I have purchased four properties. And each time my attorney said my deposit would be forfeit if I pulled out of my intent to purchase.

However, my deposits were only 10% of purchase price. For many "country property", the amount of the deposit listed seems rather high to me. I guess it would depend on the quality and size of the property you are buying thus its total price.

klsallee wrote:

Also, IANAL.

But I have purchased four properties. And each time my attorney said my deposit would be forfeit if I pulled out of my intent to purchase.

However, my deposits were only 10% of purchase price. For many "country property", the amount of the deposit listed seems rather high to me. I guess it would depend on the quality and size of the property you are buying thus its total price.

I think it was supposed to read GBP 1900 (strangely written with the :00) which is HUF 750K, so if that was 10%, then we know if was a total of HUF 7.5M. 

For some years, I've been checking on land/housing in areas of South Balaton - not quite the same area - mainly to look for an alternate holiday house.  Away from the lake, it sounds relatively ballpark for a typical "country" property with an older house and perhaps 2000-2500m2 maybe.  Bigger than urban land plots anyway (maybe 600-1100 m2).

I also had the same discussion with our lawyer.  Interestingly we didn't pay that deposit.  The owners didn't seem to want that and as it was agreed, it wasn't necessary.   We turned up at our lawyer's place, signed the contracts and paid the entire amount by bank transfer in three equal lots (as they inherited it from their father, so there were three owners).

fluffy2560 wrote:

I think it was supposed to read GBP 1900 (strangely written with the :00) which is HUF 750K, so if that was 10%, then we know if was a total of HUF 7.5M. 

For some years, I've been checking on land/housing in areas of South Balaton - not quite the same area - mainly to look for an alternate holiday house.  Away from the lake, it sounds relatively ballpark for a typical "country" property with an older house and perhaps 2000-2500m2 maybe.  Bigger than urban land plots anyway (maybe 600-1100 m2).

Zalaszentgrót if pretty far from from Lake Balaton. And a terse look online can find properties for much less than even 4M HUF. So, 7.5M HUF is actually quite a lot to pay. Depending on where one is buying. So.... that is not really the point... of course. Because the only point is the cost of land, and the amount of land, where the OP is living, not what you and I think prices should be or what we can find online.

But, still, in General... and I do mean that very broadly, I think 7.5M for a person living off the grid is probably paying too much. Assuming there is a house on the property... but we don't know. We should not assume. Only the OP can give us details. Maybe it is a vacant lot and he wants to farm the land? If no structure, then it is way too much most anywhere in the real countryside, IMHO.

Side note: I have paid much less than 7.5M HUF.... much closer to the Balaton than Zalaszentgrót. And prices are actually going down at the moment (if you "know a guy", not if you look online).

klsallee wrote:

And prices are actually going down at the moment (if you "know a guy", not if you look online).

I know a guy who knows a guy. 

klsallee wrote:

Side note: I have paid much less than 7.5M HUF.... much closer to the Balaton than Zalaszentgrót. And prices are actually going down at the moment (if you "know a guy", not if you look online).

BTW, I noticed that Zalaszentgrót comes up regularly in searches internationally.   

Obviously some expat lives there and is pushing these properties to make a few forints. 

The metric is going to be price per m2 caveated by land use, utilities, access and expat premium.

Property prices in my opinion will go down everywhere, in Hungary, in the UK, in the Far East everywhere.

Having said that if prices go down in Hungary by 20% and in other locations with 50%, very fine by me.
Being selfish, I like the development of people escaping the big cities (I saw a very intersting report in Spain (people selling in Madrid and buying ...), perhaps where I live (close to Heviz) will not benefit as much, but I strongly believe that prices in big cities will go down more then on the countryside (partially driven by recent experiences (rightfully or not). Me and my wife are getting a bit older and maintaining big properties might become more challenging over time.

Not per se looking to Hungary, we are open and currently looking at Georgia (Batumi), Turkey (Alanya), Portugal (Funchal). All medium sized cities, but cities to desinvest. (Lets look what will happen over the coming year (and a half). Also taxes are important

I respect (and like)people of Hungary, but I also have to think about my wallet and quality of life. (as well as healthcare). (Georgia and Turkey I think offer a good price/quality).

Our property is up for sale, but a bit on the expensive side I am afraid, we are targeting  (cruel in a way) people who think they need the healthy features of Heviz when they become really available (again I think in 18 months time).

By the way, some of us are renting, renting prices are not guaranteed, but for EUR 200/300 in Batumi you can rent very comfortable apartments in a very good location. (English speaking beach, restaurants, healthcare, parks, young people (repairing), all quite good (for me also important cheap alcohol and cigarettes)
Hungary is also good, but things are changing (INDEPENDENT OF CORONA), I do not want to live in Western Europe, now this is still not the case, but in 5 or 10 years time, we will have the Dutch, German or UK set up I think. I like the simple life and not as in the Netherlands rules for every single item.

cdw057 wrote:

By the way, some of us are renting, renting prices are not guaranteed, but for EUR 200/300 in Batumi you can rent very comfortable apartments in a very good location. (English speaking beach, restaurants, healthcare, parks, young people (repairing), all quite good (for me also important cheap alcohol and cigarettes)
Hungary is also good, but things are changing (INDEPENDENT OF CORONA), I do not want to live in Western Europe, now this is still not the case, but in 5 or 10 years time, we will have the Dutch, German or UK set up I think. I like the simple life and not as in the Netherlands rules for every single item.

I am wondering how it works downstream.  In the event that either of you are ill or worse dead, maybe perhaps not having access to the local support systems in the same way,  how would you manage? 

If something happened to me, Mrs Fluffy and the kids would easily continue here as they are locals with networks.  The other way around, depending on the age of the kids, they probably just stay here as adults and I would maybe leave.

Spain is a good example of expats in isolation.  Gone there with partners, never bothered learning the local language, partner dies after 20 years, other family has disappeared back in the UK with no property and nowhere to go, then health declines and end up isolated further in the local healthcare system or care home with no support.   

I remember two brothers in West Africa - owned a very large property in London they rented out. Both of them lived in Africa for tax purposes with one becoming a full time amateur jazz musician and the other a professional alcoholic.  Didn't have to work, decent retirement income from the property and still have the capital appreciation.  Don't think they had any family.

cdw057 wrote:

Property prices in my opinion will go down everywhere, in Hungary, in the UK, in the Far East everywhere.

Having said that if prices go down in Hungary by 20% and in other locations with 50%, very fine by me.
Being selfish, I like the development of people escaping the big cities (I saw a very intersting report in Spain (people selling in Madrid and buying ...), perhaps where I live (close to Heviz) will not benefit as much, but I strongly believe that prices in big cities will go down more then on the countryside (partially driven by recent experiences (rightfully or not). Me and my wife are getting a bit older and maintaining big properties might become more challenging over time.

Land never  goes down in price - the old cliche is that they aren't making any more of it.   If you want to be really adventurous, I was reading a couple of years ago that speculators are thinking of places like Zimbabwe.   A long term bet.   

Prices will eventually bounce back.   Opportunity cost is quite a problem. Interest rates are pathetic so land couldn't be any worse.  The only thing here is changes in the political system and C19 bounce back.

I was looking at the UK economics - they reckon bounce back quickly - I'm guessing 18-24 months  even with Brexit.  Property prices would then rise.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Land never  goes down in price

Of course it can.

Example, the housing bubble in the USA. Property prices went down. That was why owners went "under water" on their loans as the loans were more than the property was then worth at post property crash prices.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Prices will eventually bounce back.

Plenty of ghost towns (plenty in the USA, but some even in Europe), where prices never bounced back.

Which is why "never" is a word one needs to use with caution.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

the old cliche is that they aren't making any more of it

Prices in an open market are also influenced by availability, speculation, fad or other factors, even when total amount is fixed (or not). So prices could still fluctuate up and down depending on such subjective factors independent of fixed amount alone.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Land never  goes down in price

Of course it can.

Example, the housing bubble in the USA. Property prices went down. That was why owners went "under water" on their loans as the loans were more than the property was then worth at post property crash prices.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Prices will eventually bounce back.

Plenty of ghost towns (plenty in the USA, but some even in Europe), where prices never bounced back.

Which is why "never" is a word one needs to use with caution.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

the old cliche is that they aren't making any more of it

Prices in an open market are also influenced by availability, speculation, fad or other factors, even when total amount is fixed (or not). So prices could still fluctuate up and down depending on such subjective factors independent of fixed amount alone.

OK, agree with you but I'm agreeing only in the short term. 

It's a bit like relationships - some are fads and some are in for the long term. Obviously the return is the main issue.   

I've talked to my manager and I can improve my proffer with the wording "land never goes down in price over the long term".

If necessary we can agree that societal, historical and cultural influences are to blame.   

To support the position further, I'll go all-in by citing Manhattan island and not mentioning Detroit or the Bitcoin alternate "investment".

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've talked to my manager and I can improve my proffer with the wording "land never goes down in price over the long term".

What kind of land, farmlands? We're crazy about red meats, what if slowly our preference shifts towards more sustainable kinds of proteins..? (Driven maybe by prices of meat.)

Real estate in big cities? My anecdotal and subjective perception is that other than the young in their twenties, the majority of people in Budapest would very much prefer to live in the countryside and their jobs are the biggest factor that holds them back. The rise of telecommuting, increasingly enabled by technology (in a decade we'll have very advanced VR technologies, even better broadband internet availability, and for the remaining face-to-face needs, we'll have unmanned flying vehicles (the average person won't be able to afford them, but large corporations, taxi companies, maybe emergency services yes)) will lead to a massive de-urbanization...

I think we can expect some interesting paradigm shifts in the coming decades, this is why I don't agree with the quoted statement...

fluffy2560 wrote:

I remember two brothers in West Africa - owned a very large property in London they rented out. Both of them lived in Africa for tax purposes with one becoming a full time amateur jazz musician and the other a professional alcoholic.  Didn't have to work, decent retirement income from the property and still have the capital appreciation.  Don't think they had any family.

Looks like they have life figured out. 

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I remember two brothers in West Africa - owned a very large property in London they rented out. Both of them lived in Africa for tax purposes with one becoming a full time amateur jazz musician and the other a professional alcoholic.  Didn't have to work, decent retirement income from the property and still have the capital appreciation.  Don't think they had any family.

Looks like they have life figured out. 

Yes, seems like it but what happens when they really don't have income or no support.  No family other than each other.

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've talked to my manager and I can improve my proffer with the wording "land never goes down in price over the long term".

What kind of land, farmlands? We're crazy about red meats, what if slowly our preference shifts towards more sustainable kinds of proteins..? (Driven maybe by prices of meat.)

Real estate in big cities? My anecdotal and subjective perception is that other than the young in their twenties, the majority of people in Budapest would very much prefer to live in the countryside and their jobs are the biggest factor that holds them back. The rise of telecommuting, increasingly enabled by technology (in a decade we'll have very advanced VR technologies, even better broadband internet availability, and for the remaining face-to-face needs, we'll have unmanned flying vehicles (the average person won't be able to afford them, but large corporations, taxi companies, maybe emergency services yes)) will lead to a massive de-urbanization...

I think we can expect some interesting paradigm shifts in the coming decades, this is why I don't agree with the quoted statement...

Ooo....like your thinking but I don't think it's true - thinking of even my own experience.   It works up to the point of living in Budapest in your twenties but as soon as say marriage and/or kids arrive, people want gardens (i.e. land), fresh air, less noise/pollution and less partying.  So they want to move out the burbs so they can still get to their jobs but have a higher quality of life for their kids.

I was living in what they called  the Randstadt  in NL some years go.  Basically it's one huge urban area bounded by Utrecht, Amsterdam, Den Haag etc.   It's more suburban housing than open and wild land.  There's nowhere where you cannot see another building.  The centre of these cities are small but the burbs are huge.

I think all that will happen is that urban sprawl will accelerate outwards and fill in the gaps between the satellite towns and the capital.  Around here, places like Torokbalint, Biatorbagy, Erd or even here Budakeszi are really urban areas of Budapest.  We even have Budapest buses.  We see people with kids all the time.  We've got two new schools in the past say, 10 years - a kindergarten and a middle school.  Existing schools have expanded.

As for farmland, people still have to eat so if not red meat, it's going to be vegetables, corn or other staples.  Still uses land. 

So having weighed it all up, I'm sticking to my guns and digging in my high heels.  Land doesn't go down in value in the long term.  Any land...... regardless of where it is.  Even Chernobyl.

BTW, I just read that the HU government will provide a subsidy for electric cars under 11 M HUF.   The cheapest e-vehicle currently in HU is a small Skoda at about 4.5M HUF with subsidy with a range of about 300km.  They also will allow free parking and e-cars to use the bus lanes.  I think it's an interesting development for city centres and city living.  Might encourage people to stay in urban areas with good air quality.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Ooo....like your thinking but I don't think it's true - thinking of even my own experience.   It works up to the point of living in Budapest in your twenties but as soon as say marriage and/or kids arrive, people want gardens (i.e. land), fresh air, less noise/pollution and less partying.  So they want to move out the burbs so they can still get to their jobs but have a higher quality of life for their kids.

Moving into houses with gardens in the burbs in BP or satellite towns  is feasible for the very thin, upper-middle class. Compare prices in BP suburbs to the countryside and you'll see why telecommuting makes the latter very attractive to the masses.

fluffy2560 wrote:

As for farmland, people still have to eat so if not red meat, it's going to be vegetables, corn or other staples.  Still uses land.

If instead of cattle we breed locusts, grow mushrooms and produce protein with futuristic technologies will free up a LOT of farmland.

I have searched since my divorce in 2003 for a property abroad, I promised by 2 sons I would not leave England until they were in University. I looked at a barn in France £30k about 10 years ago with 2 acres of land. I looked in Canada, the USA, well Florida and Portland Oregan, I browsed at Italy until they had an earthquake, Germany & Austria to expensive, Ukraine semi occupied by Putin, the Nordic region to cold. Happy with what I have now, the property I am buying has a fallen down house and about 1:5 hectares. I am going ahead with the purchase but I just wanted advice about pulling out. Thanks for all the responses very enlightening, think I've got a home here now.
Keep Safe
Kelvin

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Ooo....like your thinking but I don't think it's true - thinking of even my own experience.   It works up to the point of living in Budapest in your twenties but as soon as say marriage and/or kids arrive, people want gardens (i.e. land), fresh air, less noise/pollution and less partying.  So they want to move out the burbs so they can still get to their jobs but have a higher quality of life for their kids.

Moving into houses with gardens in the burbs in BP or satellite towns  is feasible for the very thin, upper-middle class. Compare prices in BP suburbs to the countryside and you'll see why telecommuting makes the latter very attractive to the masses.

fluffy2560 wrote:

As for farmland, people still have to eat so if not red meat, it's going to be vegetables, corn or other staples.  Still uses land.

If instead of cattle we breed locusts, grow mushrooms and produce protein with futuristic technologies will free up a LOT of farmland.

I don't think it's thin really as upper-middle class. I think there's an increasing strata of professional middle classes who are in that 7-10 year work experience post-Uni upcoming middle management.   They also rely on the Bank of Mum and Dad to finance their homes.   There's no factory type estates here.  That strata is bulwark for democracy against communism (if you believe the USA).

I know from other countries, telecoms capacity is a big criteria in where to buy homes. If you're a carpenter maybe you aren't so worried but if you are a specialist in say, marketing, being online reliably is going to be very important.  Obviously telecoms is going to exist more in the suburbs than out in the sticks.  It's going to be a disadvantage or even lead to digital poverty or exclusion - that can be about access or capability. 

Obviously telcos are going to put the infrastructure in where all the people are as that's where the money is.   On the other hand in places I lived in, like Germany, telcos (or the Post then) had a USO (Universal Service Obligation).  Doesn't mean they have to lay fibre everywhere.  Not yet anyway.

I'm not very keen on locusts.  The insect thing has been pushed quite bit in the past. I suppose I could eat Solyent Green if the chips were down. 

Bio-fuel hasn't been as great a success as expected. Look what happened to maize production - Food vs Fuel.

What would you grow on the air protein freed up land?  Lupins?  What about wildlife that rely on that environment.

KelvinZalaszengrot wrote:

I have searched since my divorce in 2003 for a property abroad, I promised by 2 sons I would not leave England until they were in University. I looked at a barn in France £30k about 10 years ago with 2 acres of land. I looked in Canada, the USA, well Florida and Portland Oregan, I browsed at Italy until they had an earthquake, Germany & Austria to expensive, Ukraine semi occupied by Putin, the Nordic region to cold. Happy with what I have now, the property I am buying has a fallen down house and about 1:5 hectares. I am going ahead with the purchase but I just wanted advice about pulling out. Thanks for all the responses very enlightening, think I've got a home here now.
Keep Safe
Kelvin

So 1.5 hectares is 15000 m2 at 7.5 M HUF and therefore 7.5M HUF / 15000 gives 500 HUF / m2.

Sounds relatively reasonable.   In fact it sounds like you are building up to a farm with that amount of land.

I think my FIL paid similar prices/m2 near Tapolca  for agricultural land. His place is really in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing there except his vines.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I don't think it's thin really as upper-middle class.

According to the official stats, the average net monthly salary in BP in the last quarter of 2019 was about 300k. This, coupled with the price difference of the countryside vs bp metro area (and my perceived anti-urban, anti-bank/mortgage slavery sentiment), makes me think that there is a strong dormant driving force for de-urbanization, that will erupt once technology and telecommuting tolerance reach a critical mass.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Obviously telecoms is going to exist more in the suburbs than out in the sticks.  It's going to be a disadvantage or even lead to digital poverty or exclusion - that can be about access or capability.

We're talking long term, wireless connectivity has plenty of time to catch time.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm not very keen on locusts.

Neither am I, but again, in the long term, our culturally-rooted yuck responses can fade. Climate change will pose increasingly difficult challenges to traditional agriculture, will drive prices of traditional produces up. Only the elite will be able to afford real meat and strawberries, the masses will be fine with soylent gray made of locust powder...

Hi Fluffy
I am not paying that amount at the moment actually the house on the land has fallen down, no water, possible electric connection, really only buying because of the land and the wood on it and that it is close, trying to live the good life I've dreamt about all my life. Buried a chick in the compost today, gutted, my radishes are the size of golf balls, planted loads of veg, bought 6 bunnies 2 bucks 4 does have chickens and ducks, made a egg incubator, have a duck sitting on 12 eggs and a chicken on another dozen. Feed a stray cat whose stayed and had 4 kittens, she is a great mouse catcher, got given a dog, one day will get the pigs and goats. The farm is taking off, living the good life through Coronavirus
Keep Safe
Kelvin

fluffy2560 wrote:

Obviously telecoms is going to exist more in the suburbs than out in the sticks.

FWIIW, and ironically, I have had better GSM connections in the sticks, in the middle of nowhere, in Central Africa, even 10 years ago, than I have even today in our local village which should be 4G enabled, but can not even get a 2G connection.

atomheart wrote:

futuristic technologies will free up a LOT of farmland.

Much simpler: We can free up a lot of farm land by simply not wasting food (and which requires no new technology*).

https://saynotofoodwaste.org/data/facts/

* And every such start-up says they are "the solution" (because of course they do, to generate funding), but I have yet to see one yet prove it -- and these ideas have been around since the Sci-Fi stories of the 1930's.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Obviously telecoms is going to exist more in the suburbs than out in the sticks.

FWIIW, and ironically, I have had better GSM connections in the sticks, in the middle of nowhere, in Central Africa, even 10 years ago, than I have even today in our local village which should be 4G enabled, but can not even get a 2G connection.

I am not surprised. 

The thing about WEST Africa is that there was a big change when the ACE (Africa Connects to Europe) came online.   It was a pretty good example of cooperation.  Anyway, the capacity helped all the coastal states get 4G (at least) without satellite.  And of course by moving to 4G they didn't need the land infrastructure.   The only thing is the upper limit on capacity with frequency and safety.  5G will help more because of the small cell size.   Only recently I asked someone far away if they really should be putting in FTTH (Fibre To The Home) when they already had 4G sites with cell towers they could re-use complete with solar/generators and lower speed backhaul by microwave and Gbps fibre between towers. They didn't seem to have an answer for it.  It's a bit like ADSL, who is rolling out infrastructure for that these days?

fluffy2560 wrote:

KelvinZalaszengrot wrote:

I have searched since my divorce in 2003 for a property abroad, I promised by 2 sons I would not leave England until they were in University. I looked at a barn in France £30k about 10 years ago with 2 acres of land. I looked in Canada, the USA, well Florida and Portland Oregan, I browsed at Italy until they had an earthquake, Germany & Austria to expensive, Ukraine semi occupied by Putin, the Nordic region to cold. Happy with what I have now, the property I am buying has a fallen down house and about 1:5 hectares. I am going ahead with the purchase but I just wanted advice about pulling out. Thanks for all the responses very enlightening, think I've got a home here now.
Keep Safe
Kelvin

So 1.5 hectares is 15000 m2 at 7.5 M HUF and therefore 7.5M HUF / 15000 gives 500 HUF / m2.

Sounds relatively reasonable.   In fact it sounds like you are building up to a farm with that amount of land.

I think my FIL paid similar prices/m2 near Tapolca  for agricultural land. His place is really in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing there except his vines.

When did your FIL buy? Where did he buy? I live near Tapolca (actually, closer to the lake). I have paid less than 500 HUF m2. But prices can vary a lot here, even within a few hundred meters.

Elsewhere, especially away from a wine region like the Balaton, 500 m2 is really too much to pay for ag land. So you can not extrapolate from around the Balaton as relevant. As the OP already said, he did not pay that much (as I suspected). Which is why I keep saying... speculation at one place or another is not really relevant. Only real local knowledge matters.

KelvinZalaszengrot wrote:

Hi Fluffy
I am not paying that amount at the moment actually the house on the land has fallen down, no water, possible electric connection, really only buying because of the land and the wood on it and that it is close, trying to live the good life I've dreamt about all my life. Buried a chick in the compost today, gutted, my radishes are the size of golf balls, planted loads of veg, bought 6 bunnies 2 bucks 4 does have chickens and ducks, made a egg incubator, have a duck sitting on 12 eggs and a chicken on another dozen. Feed a stray cat whose stayed and had 4 kittens, she is a great mouse catcher, got given a dog, one day will get the pigs and goats. The farm is taking off, living the good life through Coronavirus
Keep Safe
Kelvin

Very cool.   

I hope you'll consider getting a tractor that runs on own bio-diesel AND building a house out of either old repurposed shipping containers or even hay bales. 

Our chickens tend to die at about 4 years old.  They just seem to fizzle out.  They are super looked after but there's no arguing with the genetics.

klsallee wrote:

......
When did your FIL buy? Where did he buy? I live near Tapolca (actually, closer to the lake). I have paid less than 500 HUF m2. But prices can vary a lot here, even within a few hundred meters.

Elsewhere, especially away from a wine region like the Balaton, 500 m2 is really too much to pay for ag land. So you can not extrapolate from around the Balaton as relevant. As the OP already said, he did not pay that much (as I suspected). Which is why I keep saying... speculation at one place or another is not really relevant. Only real local knowledge matters.

That's a good question.  Place is Lecense (?).  No idea exactly when he bought it but must be 10 years ago.  At the time I think it was like 3 x 100K HUF for 3 x 600-1000 m2 plots which he's joined together on to his existing land so probably inflation means it will more HUF/m2.  Don't know how much he has in total.  He hangs out there making palinka and wine and he's got quite a lot of vines.  I've been there once or twice but don't really remember anything about it other than it's up some hill.  He has water and electricity on site though.