Retire to Lake Balaton?

Balazs1 wrote:

Hi everyone,

My wife and I run a small, high-quality property rental business in Budapest (long-term rent only), and we're thinking about expanding to Lake Balaton, by buying a lakeside, top-quality penthouse apt (also for long-term rent).

My questions to xpats and others here:

1. Do you know anyone who has moved to Lake Balaton from abroad for an extended period of time (digital nomads, retirees, etc), and what has been their experience?

2. Do you think there would be interest in renting a really nice penthouse apartment in a lakeside condo on a long-term basis? How do you suggest I get into contact with those who are contemplating such a move?

Many thanks for your input and perspective,

Kind regards,

Balazs

I cannot see anyone moving there in the way you describe.

As you know, In the off-season, it's absolutely dead.   Really the only useful time to have a place there is during the summer season and that's rather short. 

It's different to say littoral Spain where there is a very large retiree base there almost permanently.   That coastal area has many large towns and extremely good roads and airports.

Balaton is obviously not that far away from Budapest where all the major services and cultural events or whatever are. 

As for digital nomads, Hungary hasn't caught up with that yet.  My choice if I was a digital nomad would be Croatia or possibly Thailand (they are now offering digital nomad long term visas).   Other countries are going to follow - it's inevitable.

BTW, one semi-hot topic in these forums is rising prices.  Things are becoming expensive here.  Everyone is noticing it.  And retirees are on fixed incomes normally.  Question is affordability - people will leave if it becomes much more expensive.

Sounds nice but Balaton does shut down after August pretty much.
Great place to be for 3 or 4 months a year but unless you like quiet, cold weather the lake isn't useable in cold months.
Hasn't been cold enough to even freeze over for ice skating.
We visited my son's ex MIL who has a ,"villa" in Balaton.
She lived in a house on her property part-time and had around 6 rooms to let for tourists away from her own living area.
We stayed a couple of days just towards the end of summer . It did nothing but rain and the lake was so choppy there was no one out at all.
We had to drive 45 mins or so away to visit a spa instead of enjoying the lake.
I'd like to rent a penthouse but think it might be very pricey for a year when you can only really enjoy the lake for a few months per year.
Suppose it depends on the price to let.

Thanks for your reply!

I agree that Balaton at the moment is not an alternative for those who like all the action in close vicinity - not much in the way of theatres, movies, etc out of season, that's for sure, though eating out is coming up nicely with some top-notch restaurants in the area.

I was thinking more of people similar to those who have moved to back-of-beyond countryside houses in Hungary in recent years. They have purchased run-down houses on the cheap in small villages far away from everything, redone them and have lived in them since. For them some of the issues later could be safety/crime, flexibility (selling their houses later, if needed, could be difficult), maintenance (they have to do everything around the house by themselves or find reliable local workforce, which can be a pain). Living in a rented high-end condo solves all these problems -- obviously for a price, but still.

Thank you for your thoughts!

I thought the price should be a reasonable compromise between peak-season and off-season. The apt would be for those who could enjoy Balaton all year round: during the bustling summer months, as well as the quite periods, ie not for tourists but really for people who love the scenery, the views, the general environment, in all their changing moods.

Balazs1 wrote:

Thanks for your reply!

I agree that Balaton at the moment is not an alternative for those who like all the action in close vicinity - not much in the way of theatres, movies, etc out of season, that's for sure, though eating out is coming up nicely with some top-notch restaurants in the area.

I was thinking more of people similar to those who have moved to back-of-beyond countryside houses in Hungary in recent years. They have purchased run-down houses on the cheap in small villages far away from everything, redone them and have lived in them since. For them some of the issues later could be safety/crime, flexibility (selling their houses later, if needed, could be difficult), maintenance (they have to do everything around the house by themselves or find reliable local workforce, which can be a pain). Living in a rented high-end condo solves all these problems -- obviously for a price, but still.

Not all restaurants are not going to survive in the post-COVID world.  Prices are rising too fast, the quality is too low and the clientele are becoming indifferent.  People don't want to eat in restaurants all the time.  There's a difference between being on holiday or living day-to-day.

Maintenance is indeed a problem but not a massive issue after a major renovation.  In theory no professional maintenance for at least 5 years.   One thing that would put me off would be the common costs. These are getting pretty high in some apartment complexes - that's pressure on the finances.  This sort of thing needs to be "all in" so that it's predictable.

For retired persons, access to decent healthcare will become a major need and unless property is in vicinity of a large town like Siofok, it'd put people off moving there.   Then there are issues like mobility, access to public transport alternatives and so on. 

As for buying country houses, people do weird things without thinking them through.  Some posters here bought houses without even basic utilities. My own view is that these kinds of places are only good for the summer or a weekend.   More like luxury camping or glamping as it's called now - glamorous camping. 

What would be the ideal place for people like me who are closer to retirement than others?  Off the top of my head (and not in order):

Access to transport hubs (both for cars and public transport)
Quiet, safe /security- green and leafy burbs where everything is walking distance
Healthcare nearby - docs/dentists
Services like supermarkets and DIY shops
Internet services

Personally I'd like living in a high rise flat with a view of the lake but my HU husband would perfer to see a ocean view all year long.
We lived in Honolulu on the 23rd floor with a nice view for 6 months before heading to another Island years ago.
The place was rather small a one bedroom one bath with our son living with us then but the location was worth every penny. Swimming pool on the top floor a just a short walk to the beach. Shoping center nt far away, Ala Moana shopping center, resturants events all year lng on the boardwalarea. It was nice, wish we stayed put.
You are right though about people buying old farms near balaton in villages.
We actually saw one just the other day, then rethought it. Too much work and who will watch the place if we go somewhere.
Plus who knows what odd balls live near by.
Could be dangerous for 2 older people alone.
Normally we wouldn't live in HU all year long, at least we'd go elsewhere every other winter. C-19 is keeping people from traveling to warmer climates.
As soon as things get easier  we don't plan on staying in HU for the cold winters. Just what we as retired people would do.
Used to be HU for 6 months and Vegas for 6 months.
Thinking now of 6 months in Asia instead but everything is up in the air.
Not sure how most retired people think but usually the follow the sun.

fluffy2560 wrote:

As for digital nomads, Hungary hasn't caught up with that yet.  My choice if I was a digital nomad would be Croatia or possibly Thailand (they are now offering digital nomad long term visas).   Other countries are going to follow - it's inevitable.

Bulgaria is quite good, high speed internet for €10 a month

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

As for digital nomads, Hungary hasn't caught up with that yet.  My choice if I was a digital nomad would be Croatia or possibly Thailand (they are now offering digital nomad long term visas).   Other countries are going to follow - it's inevitable.

Bulgaria is quite good, high speed internet for €10 a month

I've spent unintended time in Varna, Bulgaria.  It was sometime ago.  Mrs Fluffy and I were driving through it from Romania and the car broke down. We ended up spending 2 days there while waiting for spare parts.  I got a mild dose of food poisoning from eating seafood.   The town centre was being revamped using US money.  The pedestrian area wasn't bad.   Big minus for foreigners was the inaccessibility of the language.  But that may be different now.

The digital nomad thing is mixed up with taxes - non-resident for global taxes, fixed rates on local tax on local earnings, long term visa without onerous conditions, work permit, property ownership but with minimum income.   It's not bad if say one was a Bitcoin trader with substantial income.   Such a person has plenty of choices now for a base.

Gates, Musk and Bezos aren't going to be digital nomads.  These guys are too rich to pay any taxes.

In the past 1.5 years, we have already had two digital nomad tenants in two of our Budapest apartments, so my impression is that it is very much an uptrend in Hungary (or at least the capital). One of these guys was into crypto, the other had an online marketing business, both can be done pretty much from anywhere. With good internet, of course. Both had top-quality internet for 15 EUR per month, hunkered down safely during Covid, had a good deal overall, I think

Balazs1 wrote:

In the past 1.5 years, we have already had two digital nomad tenants in two of our Budapest apartments, so my impression is that it is very much an uptrend in Hungary (or at least the capital). One of these guys was into crypto, the other had an online marketing business, both can be done pretty much from anywhere. With good internet, of course. Both had top-quality internet for 15 EUR per month, hunkered down safely during Covid, had a good deal overall, I think

Sounds good but is there a digital nomad enabling environment for them?   Waiving of work permits, minimum income, non-resident tax etc? Or are they just winging it and keeping their heads down?  In COVID times they could just as easily left for easier less restricted places.

Internet can be a bit variable.  In Budapest it should be fine but around here, we're a bit limited. In the  area where Mrs Fluffy's family Balaton house is (near Balatonfoldvar), the mobile internet is absolutely terrible).  For digital nomads, this would be a stopper.   I'm coming to the conclusion that anything less than 1 Gbps is not good.  At least for families with teenage  kids. 

For retirees, internet still important for keeping in touch but not necessarily the major driver.

I heard an "expert" talking on the radio about short term rentals - like weeks - for holiday apartments and I couldn't believe it when he said a hot tub was a top requirement for renters.  WTF? I couldn't think of anything less desirable. I'd rather access to a pool and a green space/garden. 

I suppose it depends on your age group.  I get the impression digital nomads would be late 20s  to late 30s.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Balazs1 wrote:

Hi everyone,

My wife and I run a small, high-quality property rental business in Budapest (long-term rent only), and we're thinking about expanding to Lake Balaton, by buying a lakeside, top-quality penthouse apt (also for long-term rent).

My questions to xpats and others here:

1. Do you know anyone who has moved to Lake Balaton from abroad for an extended period of time (digital nomads, retirees, etc), and what has been their experience?

2. Do you think there would be interest in renting a really nice penthouse apartment in a lakeside condo on a long-term basis? How do you suggest I get into contact with those who are contemplating such a move?

Many thanks for your input and perspective,

Kind regards,

Balazs

I cannot see anyone moving there in the way you describe.

As you know, In the off-season, it's absolutely dead.   Really the only useful time to have a place there is during the summer season and that's rather short. 

It's different to say littoral Spain where there is a very large retiree base there almost permanently.   That coastal area has many large towns and extremely good roads and airports.

Balaton is obviously not that far away from Budapest where all the major services and cultural events or whatever are. 

As for digital nomads, Hungary hasn't caught up with that yet.  My choice if I was a digital nomad would be Croatia or possibly Thailand (they are now offering digital nomad long term visas).   Other countries are going to follow - it's inevitable.

BTW, one semi-hot topic in these forums is rising prices.  Things are becoming expensive here.  Everyone is noticing it.  And retirees are on fixed incomes normally.  Question is affordability - people will leave if it becomes much more expensive.

Yes prices are rising and it is difficult flying to another European country to do a few weeks work to boost my income. So I am now living on my uk works pension.
Im not sure about the whole digital thing. Most of the people I know who are doing it are teaching on line and personally that would eventually bore me to death. I would need some cultural and city life to counteract the isolation of staring at a screen all day.
If prices get much higher and if work continues to be so heavily taxed n Hungary, I would consider making a move and I would love to move back to a coastal town . The lakes just would not do it for me having previously lived on the South Coast of the UK  and visited other beautiful beaches in Europe Africa and Asia.

anns wrote:

.....
Yes prices are rising and it is difficult flying to another European country to do a few weeks work to boost my income. So I am now living on my uk works pension.
Im not sure about the whole digital thing. Most of the people I know who are doing it are teaching on line and personally that would eventually bore me to death. I would need some cultural and city life to counteract the isolation of staring at a screen all day.
If prices get much higher and if work continues to be so heavily taxed n Hungary, I would consider making a move and I would love to move back to a coastal town . The lakes just would not do it for me having previously lived on the South Coast of the UK  and visited other beautiful beaches in Europe Africa and Asia.

Agreed!

It's almost impossible to go anywhere.  People I know who have travelled recently say the hassle is intense.  The rules vary per country and the quarantine is oppressive.  Personally I'm sick of it.

Makes no sense risk wise if people have been vaccinated.   The risks of being infected on a plane full of vaccinated people must be incredibly low.

Hi Balázs,
We moved to Balatoalmadi from abroad and had long term and also short term rental apartmans. They weren't super high end, but new and nice. My experience:  short term was good, long term in this area not so much. But again, a high end rental place might be needed in a narrower group of people, you just have to find them.
Let me know if you have any question.

Hi Livia,

Many thanks for your reply!

Yes, I have just 1 question, if I may: what kind of resources / channels did you use to find accommodation here in Hungary before you moved? Did you search on the internet, did you use local agencies, other?

Thanks a bunch!

Kind regards, Balazs

The Balaton area is fairly priced for hungarians unable/unwilling to travel abroad. Magyarul: prolik.    But for foreigners, there are endless alternatives that offer much much better value... So a Balaton penthouse pitched at foreigners doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but this is just an uninformed opinion...

atomheart wrote:

The Balaton area is fairly priced for hungarians unable/unwilling to travel abroad. Magyarul: prolik.    But for foreigners, there are endless alternatives that offer much much better value... So a Balaton penthouse pitched at foreigners doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but this is just an uninformed opinion...

One only has to go a few km from the shoreline to see the difference in real estate prices.  Gadzillions of HUF for land on the edge of the lake and just a few million HUF further away.  Ideal for the proles.

There are some large developments going on along the edge of the lake (especially the South) but they cannot be doing much for the good for the water quality or environment. Might be ethical considerations on buying into those developments.

I also cannot see the OP's original idea being a runner.  I could see something like sheltered housing working better for older and richer Hungarians. These are common further West.

atomheart wrote:

The Balaton area is fairly priced for hungarians unable/unwilling to travel abroad. Magyarul: prolik.    But for foreigners, there are endless alternatives that offer much much better value... So a Balaton penthouse pitched at foreigners doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but this is just an uninformed opinion...

True, if a foreigner can afford a rented penthouse then considering how iffy even the summer weather can be here with rain and wind plus the lake is really only good until late Aug. most summers, well I'd rather go elsewhere for the winters then rent long term in a flat in the winter in Hungary.
So many place to travel to that are sunny all year long.
We looked online a few times at conds on the lake.
Very nice but many are so overpriced for the size they are.
Can do better in SE Asia for the winter months.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
True, if a foreigner can afford a rented penthouse then considering how iffy even the summer weather can be here with rain and wind plus the lake is really only good until late Aug. most summers, well I'd rather go elsewhere for the winters then rent long term in a flat in the winter in Hungary.
So many place to travel to that are sunny all year long.
We looked online a few times at conds on the lake.
Very nice but many are so overpriced for the size they are.
Can do better in SE Asia for the winter months.

Totally agree with that. 

Schools back first Monday or so in September nearly everything closes down. 

Balaton itself might be still usable but it doesn't take very long to get cold again.