police stopping people?

Hi,

routine controls maybe ?

Any police in any country does this.
It is normal, it is part of the police's job…
Btw I am in Ukraine for 6 years and have been stopped only one time (the first week I was there).

No I disagree that it is a routine check or 'normal'. Being a policeman shouldn't involve checking people's identities unless there is a specific reason for this.

It may be common is some countries but no so in others (Britain, España, France)

I have lived in Kyiv since September 2011 and it has never happened to me.

If you are walking down the steet completely drunk then maybe the coppers will stop you and try to get a bribe from you. But I stress that this has never happened to me or my friends living in Kyiv

I agree, under no circumstances is it normal for police to just stop and harass people anywhere, be it in Ukraine or in US or the Moon. The problem with Ukrainian cops is that they are so unprofessional and currupt that anything is possible. The best advice regarding all this is - just use common sense and stay out of compromising situations as not to attract the unwanted attention from our policeman. Realistically - most of the time you will be fine. If they  do stop you on the street they are probably looking for some excuse to make a buck off of foreigner as they are considered easy pray. Again, don't be afraid. Carry your passport at all times and have $20 to solve any unexpected problems should they arise.

10 years ago it was common and I carried my passport everywhere as Ukraine somehow made an exception to (what I understood to be international law) that although the police may request ID, only at an international border can a passport be specifically required.  I never carry it anymore and if they ask me for it I tell them that "it is where it should be:  at home in the safe".  Mind you I am now fluent in Russian.  Avoid Maidan and Kreshatyk drunk late at night.  Oleggy has it right:  any request to see your passport when you are walking down the street is an effort to receive a bribe.

It is normal and it must be done permanently in all countries. And it is done. You say police should stop only for a reason but you are not allowed to know that reason. You may be similar to a terrorist or to a mugger who has mugged a person 5 minutes ago few block away, you can carry a suspicious bag etc. That is why police must check everyone. Just the recent accident in Norway is quite a good reason to do so.

oleggy wrote:

I agree, under no circumstances is it normal for police to just stop and harass people anywhere,

Why harass? Stopping people for a normal control does not mean to harass people.
It is normal that police makes casual controls, it is part of the normal procedure in their job.

But controls must stay control and nothing more.

The fact that in Ukraine some police stops you only to get some bribe is another story.

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I agree with GreyKyiv too.

well, my point was that in Ukraine with average policeman being paid $350-400/month anything is possible and I simply wanted those new to the country to be aware of it. Yes police is police, but who is to say that a poor policeman in a poor country will not cross that line (either due to desperation or lack of training)

PS. Also one should just look to Russia to see where the policy of police checking passports leads. They have been doing it for years now with the number of terrorist attacks and their severity only increasing yet most average citizents feeling harassed and unwelcomed when visiting their own capital. Therefore (and that is the main point here) the problem is not the right of law enforcement to check documents but the unproffessionalism of police force dating back to Soviet times.

oleggy wrote:

PS. Also one should just look to Russia to see where the policy of police checking passports leads. They have been doing it for years now with the number of terrorist attacks and their severity only increasing yet most average citizents feeling harassed and unwelcomed when visiting their own capital. Therefore (and that is the main point here) the problem is not the right of law enforcement to check documents but the unproffessionalism of police force dating back to Soviet times.

You cannot say that the checking in Russia does not decrease terrorist attacks because you do not know the numbers. Plus the checking is done not only to prevent terrorist attacks but other crimes so you IMHO you are wrong in saying the checking does not work.

Also I agree with you that policemen here use the checking for their own interests. But everyone should understand that a bribe is asked from a violator of the law. If you do not violate the law there is no reason to ask you a bribe. And the most important and as mean thing as the bribing by police is complains about bribes. If you are so honest and right then pay official fines. Do not pay bribes, keep your passport with you, do not violate registration, currency, traffic, tax and other laws and pay official fines if you do violate. Otherwise there is no difference between you and a policeman taking a bribe.

GreyKyiv wrote:

oleggy wrote:

PS. Also one should just look to Russia to see where the policy of police checking passports leads. They have been doing it for years now with the number of terrorist attacks and their severity only increasing yet most average citizents feeling harassed and unwelcomed when visiting their own capital. Therefore (and that is the main point here) the problem is not the right of law enforcement to check documents but the unproffessionalism of police force dating back to Soviet times.

You cannot say that the checking in Russia does not decrease terrorist attacks because you do not know the numbers. Plus the checking is done not only to prevent terrorist attacks but other crimes so you IMHO you are wrong in saying the checking does not work.

Also I agree with you that policemen here use the checking for their own interests. But everyone should understand that a bribe is asked from a violator of the law. If you do not violate the law there is no reason to ask you a bribe. And the most important and as mean thing as the bribing by police is complains about bribes. If you are so honest and right then pay official fines. Do not pay bribes, keep your passport with you, do not violate registration, currency, traffic, tax and other laws and pay official fines if you do violate. Otherwise there is no difference between you and a policeman taking a bribe.

I personally have never had to pay bribes to police (and I violated the law when I was younger). The poin is that unprofessionalism of Ukrainian law enforcement officials and police goes well beyond routine checks and any  newcomer to the country should know that. Having lived in other places I can personally attest to the fact that Ukrainian police are not the scariest...but they do look for brbes and yes they are among the most corrupt, so just BE WARE.

I did not mean that any one posted in this thread violated law. And I agree that Ukrainian policemen happen to be corrupt (we should not say that all they are).
I think the main idea of this discussion must be BE AWARE. Not because Ukrainian police is bad. You should be aware that you have to obey the law, especially when you are an alien.

Dear Lebanesepirate, if they stopped somebody for 2 min to check your pass. and let him go - it means they were bored and wanted to do smth; but if they stopped for more than 2 min and started to call somewhere or ask a lot of questions - it means they wanted money (50-100 grv is enough) Unless that smbd was drunk or they found him sleeping on the bus stop naked!
P.S. As I know, there is no any urgent condition in Ukraine(war, revolution, protests, visit of president) which will make police to check passport of everyone!

ukr.dev85 wrote:

Dear Lebanesepirate, if they stopped somebody for 2 min to check your pass. and let him go - it means they were bored and wanted to do smth; but if they stopped for more than 2 min and started to call somewhere or ask a lot of questions - it means they wanted money (50-100 grv is enough) Unless that smbd was drunk or they found him sleeping on the bus stop naked!
P.S. As I know, there is no any urgent condition in Ukraine(war, revolution, protests, visit of president) which will make police to check passport of everyone!

Dear ukr.dev85,
First, there are operations police may carry on by stopping you and people are not allowed to know the reason due to the nature of such work. You are allowed to know only the the reason (checking your docs) but not the cause (e.g. looknig for a certain killer).
Second, the police duty is order maintenance so they are authorised to stop and check anyone looked suspicious. "Suspicious" is a subjective notion so it is up to a policeman to decide whether you are suspicious or not.
Third, you are stopped not for checking your docs but for IDENTITY INDETIFICATION based on the mentioned above.

And I would not addvice to give a bribe if you are not a local or do not know the mentality of local people. Otherwise you can get big problems. NOT ALL TAKE BRIBES here.

Thank's Grey for Great explanation of police behaviour rules in Ukraine. Very usefull information which nobody knew b4!!!

GreyKyiv wrote:

ukr.dev85 wrote:

Dear Lebanesepirate, if they stopped somebody for 2 min to check your pass. and let him go - it means they were bored and wanted to do smth; but if they stopped for more than 2 min and started to call somewhere or ask a lot of questions - it means they wanted money (50-100 grv is enough) Unless that smbd was drunk or they found him sleeping on the bus stop naked!
P.S. As I know, there is no any urgent condition in Ukraine(war, revolution, protests, visit of president) which will make police to check passport of everyone!

Dear ukr.dev85,
First, there are operations police may carry on by stopping you and people are not allowed to know the reason due to the nature of such work. You are allowed to know only the the reason (checking your docs) but not the cause (e.g. looknig for a certain killer).
Second, the police duty is order maintenance so they are authorised to stop and check anyone looked suspicious. "Suspicious" is a subjective notion so it is up to a policeman to decide whether you are suspicious or not.
Third, you are stopped not for checking your docs but for IDENTITY INDETIFICATION based on the mentioned above.

And I would not addvice to give a bribe if you are not a local or do not know the mentality of local people. Otherwise you can get big problems. NOT ALL TAKE BRIBES here.

thanks for sharing this informations as i may travel to Ukraine for tourism

don moe wrote:

thanks for sharing this informations as i may travel to Ukraine for tourism

Removed other info - This web-site is crappy. Moderators- idiots.

pav_kov wrote:

don moe wrote:

thanks for sharing this informations as i may travel to Ukraine for tourism

I am quite sure you will get stopped.


I agree with GreyKyiv. Police (Milicia) can ask you for docs. If they are just bored, they will push you for bribe.
However if there was a crime and you look like suspect description, and even has passport they will get you to Police.

If they are looking for someone specific (they know name) passport or other ID will save you time and nerves.

hehehe i will see if they will stop me

thanks bro.

don moe wrote:

pav_kov wrote:

don moe wrote:

thanks for sharing this informations as i may travel to Ukraine for tourism

I am quite sure you will get stopped.


I agree with GreyKyiv. Police (Milicia) can ask you for docs. If they are just bored, they will push you for bribe.
However if there was a crime and you look like suspect description, and even has passport they will get you to Police.

If they are looking for someone specific (they know name) passport or other ID will save you time and nerves.

hehehe i will see if they will stop me

thanks bro.

Just be polite and you will be OK.


Removed other info - This web-site is crappy. Moderators- idiots.

pav_kov wrote:

don moe wrote:

pav_kov wrote:

I am quite sure you will get stopped.


I agree with GreyKyiv. Police (Milicia) can ask you for docs. If they are just bored, they will push you for bribe.
However if there was a crime and you look like suspect description, and even has passport they will get you to Police.

If they are looking for someone specific (they know name) passport or other ID will save you time and nerves.

hehehe i will see if they will stop me

thanks bro.

Just be polite and you will be OK.
By the way in province cities patrol may ask you for documents just out of curiosity. They do not speak English and may want to see you passport just to get where you are from.

You know some of them have never seen foreigner in their life )).

Also a copy of your passport with some "official stamp" may work too.

thanks so much for this amazing info.
sure i will be polite as here am always like that and thank god never been to any kind of problems before