Penalty fee for overstayed visa

Dwzappa

To answer your most pressing question first, yes, the Polícia Federal can absolutely refuse to admit you at the airport if you aren't ready to pay your R$10,000 fine, and with stress as high as it is with the pandemic, they're less likely than ever to be cutting anyone any breaks.  Show up ready to pay, and you'll probably be ok.

The rest of your story doesn't hang together, so it's difficult to advise you.  Here are the problems:

-- "I ...  tried to get my residency twice but to no avail and I dont know why"  The Polícia Federal would have told you why you were rejected, especially if you have Brazilian children and were rejected TWICE.  What did they say?

-- "living there for 8 years and upon my exit I recieved a 10,000 $ reais fine"  The fine structure that tops out at R$10,000 only went into effect in November 2017.  If you really overstayed your visa by eight years, you would have been fined under the old fine schedule, not the new one.  If this is true, it may help with any eventual appeal.

-- " I have ...  my brasilian workers card,"  If you've never had a CIE/RNE/CRNM ( i.e., a residence card -- all the same thing, just differing by date), how did you get a Labor Card?  They are not issued to non-residents.

With respect to your other questions, your wife may be able to start an appeal of the fine on your behalf.  Your best bet is probably to pay it, though, and to explore appeals once you're safely in the country.

If the fine is paid, it shouldn't interfere with your obtaining residency.  However, the fact that you've been turned down twice may.  You want to look at any documents you received at the time of those applications for reasons for rejection.  You may want to consult an attorney, who could also help with the fine appeal.

You say that you have all necessary documents, but you don't mention any US documents.  As a US citizen you'll need your birth certificate and a FBI Criminal Background Check that's less than 90 days old when you apply for residency.  If you've been living in Brazil for eight years until recently, you will also need to present Brazilian federal and state criminal background checks; these can normally be obtained online.

Thanks so much for the time.
Yes my case is confusing.
So i applied for my residency in 2012 under the birth of my child. I payed a fee and was issued a small piece of paper that had a hand written protocolo number and as well withmy photo stapled to it. They explained that a federal officer would eventually make a surprise visit to our house to authenticate our family and then we would be issued our residence, including my son, a usa citizen and my wife( argentina)..   We waited 3 years and never had a visit. I would often check with the webpage address they gave us and the protocolo # would never confirm with the system. So 2015 my employer asked me and my wife to get the workers card. There they informed us of an irregular problem and first go to the FEDERAL POLICE. The FP informed us that our case was public but we never went to recieve that they rejected the case. (We were ignorant/ uniformed of the process}
They had us pay a fee and informed us that case would be made available within 3 months. We returned to the building for our workers card  and they gave it to us. We waited for the case to go public but with no success. 2018 my wife got an attorney and she told us our case was lost in the system due to a transfer from papaer to digitil sytem. She advised my wife to gether residency thru the mercosul agreement and the my son and I apply thru her. That is where I stood prior to exiting the country of june 2020.
I thought of going to the consulate in miami to make an appeal and apply for my brasilian papers. Any advice???

That does make some sense.  The Polícia Federal at one time WAS making visits to the homes of residency applicants.  They've changed their procedures and still do that for applicants for naturalization, but no longer for residency. 

It sounds like your card WAS actually approved the second time, then canceled because you didn't pick it up.  That case is closed now, and since there have been several systems changes since, probably can't be found.  The cleanest, simplest thing you can do is come back, pay your fine, and apply from scratch.  If you go to the Brazilian Consulate and apply for a VITEM XI visa for family reunion, that may help you when you apply for residency with the PF, but it probably won't relieve you from the fine.

The PF will expect to see your wife with you during the application process, so you should plan on that.  Here's the list of required documents.  Good luck!:

http://www.pf.gov.br/servicos-pf/imigra … o-familiar

Once again, thank you for the time. Yes this has been a frustrating matter for me! W

You informed I should pay the fee and then make an appeal of the penalty.
Would that generate a chance to get my money back?

Dwzappa wrote:

You informed I should pay the fee and then make an appeal of the penalty.
Would that generate a chance to get my money back?

Honestly, I think that you have very little chance of getting your money back, but it's probably worth a try.  I think that you have even less chance of being readmitted to the country without paying, and if you are readmitted, the unpaid fine will probably complicate your residency application.

Curious to know where i pay the fee?
Sao Paulo arp before customs ?
is there a bank of brasil?

Dwzappa wrote:

Curious to know where i pay the fee?
Sao Paulo arp before customs ?
is there a bank of brasil?

Other members have reported  24 hour banks at Guarulhos (São Paulo) and Galeão (Rio de Janeiro), to which the PF will escort you to pay the fine.

abthree wrote:

To answer your most pressing question first, yes, the Polícia Federal can absolutely refuse to admit you at the airport if you aren't ready to pay your R$10,000 fine, and with stress as high as it is with the pandemic, they're less likely than ever to be cutting anyone any breaks....

The rest of your story doesn't hang together.... Here are the problems:

-- "I ...  tried to get my residency twice but to no avail and I dont know why"  The Polícia Federal would have told you why you were rejected, especially if you have Brazilian children and were rejected TWICE....

-- "living there for 8 years and upon my exit I recieved a 10,000 $ reais fine"  The fine structure that tops out at R$10,000 only went into effect in November 2017.  If you really overstayed your visa by eight years, you would have been fined under the old fine schedule, not the new one.  If this is true, it may help with any eventual appeal.

-- " I have ...  my brasilian workers card,"  If you've never had a CIE/RNE/CRNM ( i.e., a residence card -- all the same thing, just differing by date), how did you get a Labor Card?  They are not issued to non-residents.

With respect to your other questions, your wife may be able to start an appeal of the fine on your behalf.  Your best bet is probably to pay it, though, and to explore appeals once you're safely in the country.

If the fine is paid, it shouldn't interfere with your obtaining residency.  However, the fact that you've been turned down twice may.  You want to look at any documents you received at the time of those applications for reasons for rejection.

Excellent analysis and follow-up, Abthree.  You gave the OP superior assistance.

How long ago were you assigned to the expat.com experts team?

cccmedia

Agreed

cccmedia wrote:

Excellent analysis and follow-up, Abthree.  You gave the OP superior assistance.

How long ago were you assigned to the expat.com experts team?

cccmedia

Thanks.

Expert 09/25/18; Advisor a  couple of months before that.  How about you? 

Dwzappa wrote:

Agreed

Remember, you should never lie to the Federal Police,  but you're not obliged to volunteer information, either.

You should arrive prepared to pay, but wait for them to bring up the fine.  The agent will be looking at the system,  and may or may not see it, and may or may not think it's worth pursuing.  If they do, you're ready, and if they don't,  welcome back to Brazil! 

abthree wrote:

cccmedia wrote:

Excellent analysis and follow-up, Abthree.  You gave the OP superior assistance.

How long ago were you assigned to the expat.com experts team?

cccmedia

Thanks.

Expert 09/25/18; Advisor a  couple of months before that.  How about you? 

Expert circa 2015, before the Home Office was designating 'Advisors'.

I should be able to track down the month and year .. and send you a PM.

cccmedia

Possibly i can pick your brain once again or to whom ever would know.
In concerns to the ovetstayed visa the form i signed only refrees to the fine of 10.000 $ reais. Although ive seen from random googling the matter that many people were also issued a 6 month ban of rentry into Brazil. I read nothing like this on my form but is that common or to be expected?

Ill give you an example. the longer you wait to pay this, there is juros, trust me i had to pay a total of almost 15 mil reais due to late penalty. Though paid in full prior to my arrival and if i didnt the consulate would of refused me entry ( from canada ) I travelled with special preference during pandemic as they had no reason to refuse me at that point. you will want to pay your buleto any bank should be able to process it no problem presuming your other half is there. transfer her the money she can pay it for you then at that point you are good to go. on board and away!

*** edit - it still is the pandemic so check flights as they are really picky I was fortunate as when I came back they were refusing all kinds of brazilians without proper documentation at the airport when I landed in miami lol.

Like you, I too overstayed my visa when I first moved here and got slapped with a R$9k fine. They told me to pay it when I return, which was after a few months of traveling with my wife. When we returned, the fine had jumped to 13/14k from "late" fees that we were never warned about. We tried to fight it but every lawyer said it was pointless and we'd end up wasting more money on hiring them than we'd benefit from now paying the fine. I was fine with the initial fine because I messed up and overstayed while trying to sort out my paperwork but the unannounced late fees was a bit much, especially when they never warned us about it and wouldn't let me pay on the day I was leaving.

Dwzappa wrote:

Possibly i can pick your brain once again or to whom ever would know.
In concerns to the ovetstayed visa the form i signed only refrees to the fine of 10.000 $ reais. Although ive seen from random googling the matter that many people were also issued a 6 month ban of rentry into Brazil. I read nothing like this on my form but is that common or to be expected?

Just replied but forgot to talk about this. I was given a 6 month rentry ban as well! I had to live in Paraguay until I was legally allowed to enter Brazil again to marry my wife and then get my residency! Be prepared for that I say.

English Penguin wrote:

Like you, I too overstayed my visa when I first moved here and got slapped with a R$9k fine. They told me to pay it when I return, which was after a few months of traveling with my wife. When we returned, the fine had jumped to 13/14k from "late" fees that we were never warned about. We tried to fight it but every lawyer said it was pointless and we'd end up wasting more money on hiring them than we'd benefit from now paying the fine. I was fine with the initial fine because I messed up and overstayed while trying to sort out my paperwork but the unannounced late fees was a bit much, especially when they never warned us about it and wouldn't let me pay on the day I was leaving.

after how many months your fine has increased from 9k to 14k ?? thks
the next month i will go to Brasil and i have to pay 3200reas for overstayed in march 2020.
eight months passed .how much will I have to pay more than 3200reais???
I am very worried

filippo456 wrote:

English Penguin wrote:

Like you, I too overstayed my visa when I first moved here and got slapped with a R$9k fine. They told me to pay it when I return, which was after a few months of traveling with my wife. When we returned, the fine had jumped to 13/14k from "late" fees that we were never warned about. We tried to fight it but every lawyer said it was pointless and we'd end up wasting more money on hiring them than we'd benefit from now paying the fine. I was fine with the initial fine because I messed up and overstayed while trying to sort out my paperwork but the unannounced late fees was a bit much, especially when they never warned us about it and wouldn't let me pay on the day I was leaving.

after how many months your fine has increased from 9k to 14k ?? thks

It was over 3 and a half months or so.

English Penguin wrote:

filippo456 wrote:

English Penguin wrote:

Like you, I too overstayed my visa when I first moved here and got slapped with a R$9k fine. They told me to pay it when I return, which was after a few months of traveling with my wife. When we returned, the fine had jumped to 13/14k from "late" fees that we were never warned about. We tried to fight it but every lawyer said it was pointless and we'd end up wasting more money on hiring them than we'd benefit from now paying the fine. I was fine with the initial fine because I messed up and overstayed while trying to sort out my paperwork but the unannounced late fees was a bit much, especially when they never warned us about it and wouldn't let me pay on the day I was leaving.

after how many months your fine has increased from 9k to 14k ?? thks

It was over 3 and a half months or so.

que vergonha !!!!!
did you pay at the airport???

filippo456 wrote:

English Penguin wrote:

filippo456 wrote:

after how many months your fine has increased from 9k to 14k ?? thks

It was over 3 and a half months or so.

que vergonha !!!!!
did you pay at the airport???

When we left the country, they gave me the 9k fine, I offered to pay but they said it wasn't needed right away and I should just pay when I return. When I returned, they printed a new receipt with the updated cost. Even after paying that, they didn't let me back into the country for 180 days, even though I was told otherwise just before paying.

English Penguin wrote:

filippo456 wrote:

English Penguin wrote:

It was over 3 and a half months or so.

que vergonha !!!!!
did you pay at the airport???

When we left the country, they gave me the 9k fine, I offered to pay but they said it wasn't needed right away and I should just pay when I return. When I returned, they printed a new receipt with the updated cost. Even after paying that, they didn't let me back into the country for 180 days, even though I was told otherwise just before paying.

thks
this year??? in 2020??

Dwzappa wrote:

Once again, thank you for the time. Yes this has been a frustrating matter for me! W

Since the changes in 2017, the VITEM XI is fast and easy, the best way to get your foot into the door so to speak for your new CRNM (the RNE system ended in 2017)

abthree wrote:

That does make some sense.  The Polícia Federal at one time WAS making visits to the homes of residency applicants.  They've changed their procedures and still do that for applicants for naturalization, but no longer for residency. 

It sounds like your card WAS actually approved the second time, then canceled because you didn't pick it up.  That case is closed now, and since there have been several systems changes since, probably can't be found.  The cleanest, simplest thing you can do is come back, pay your fine, and apply from scratch.  If you go to the Brazilian Consulate and apply for a VITEM XI visa for family reunion, that may help you when you apply for residency with the PF, but it probably won't relieve you from the fine.

The PF will expect to see your wife with you during the application process, so you should plan on that.  Here's the list of required documents.  Good luck!:

http://www.pf.gov.br/servicos-pf/imigra … o-familiar

Yes, do not go to the PF to apply for a CRNM on the basis of Family Reunion, without your family member being with you.

yes will be from 13 - 14k as of this year, with juros / multa.

filippo456 wrote:

English Penguin wrote:

filippo456 wrote:

que vergonha !!!!!
did you pay at the airport???

When we left the country, they gave me the 9k fine, I offered to pay but they said it wasn't needed right away and I should just pay when I return. When I returned, they printed a new receipt with the updated cost. Even after paying that, they didn't let me back into the country for 180 days, even though I was told otherwise just before paying.

thks
this year??? in 2020??

It was in 2019 actually.

Hello,do you know if is possible to pay  my fine/multa for overstay arriving at Galeao airport on saturday/sunday??? banks is open?? thks a lot

Yes, one bank they use will be open.

Banco Safra Is open ??? Banco do Brazil Is closed. Thank for your answer

Banco Safra. BB has 24 hr ATM
At GRU sometimes someone will go with you.

I will arrive at Galeao,RJ airport. not GRU

I understood, this. Just saying sometimes agents assist you.

I arrived last week. an agent assist me to pay at Banco Safra open 24hr. I paid 3200rs fine and 1020rs de juros/interests for 8 months !!!! more or less 40% annually ...incredible !!!!

Welcome back, Filippo!  Enjoy your stay.  Thanks for the update.