Kuwiaty Women What I am Noticing but why?

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Marquis: I totally agree with your idea about women's development in this region but tell me dear is sleeping with drivers and cheating the proof of this development? actually is this love or lust? Do any of these women accept to marry their servants? of course no. Then your idea about love changing the world is totally wrong. Because this is not love and it's degrading the society not developing it!!
If you want to talk about development talk about the muslim and arabic women who are travelling away from their families to gain career and academic advancement, talk about women who shoulder the responsibilities of their families when the father is away, don't talk about filthy low women.

@Lebanon
Well there are women who are going away for school and educating themselves in America, I might add, if they have the means to do so. And are still respecting the wishes of there parents and religious wishes in following there Cultures. But even to them who are of what you would call a higher class of a Woman, or Muslim Women who are effected the most and whom have the highest divorce rate among the Muslim community. It is the women who are Educated and have the great Jobs and the ones who support there husbands, and stand behind there families; not ones what you call the filthy low ones. So research is necessary because they are the ones who are coming forward; who are pushing for something different and they believe the goodness and peace that God wants for them to have that they are not getting from there Man... 

@Scotguy: If you read the history you will know that every powerful civilization rises and then falls, I'm not saying this because I'm ahmadi najad carrying the slogan of "USA the greatest devil will be down", I'm saying this because this is a simple truth. The degradation of the civilizarion starts from a corrupted society, when every individual thinks that he is created to persue happiness. While he is created to perform his duty.
You know the Islamic civilization was once the greatest just like the west nowadays, they had lots of scientists and creative men although their ruler always claimed that he is a divine ruler assigned by god, so tell me do you still think that more options and democracy equals creativity and success

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Marquis: I totally agree with your idea about women's development in this region but tell me dear is sleeping with drivers and cheating the proof of this development? actually is this love or lust? Do any of these women accept to marry their servants? of course no. Then your idea about love changing the world is totally wrong. Because this is not love and it's degrading the society not developing it!!
If you want to talk about development talk about the muslim and arabic women who are travelling away from their families to gain career and academic advancement, talk about women who shoulder the responsibilities of their families when the father is away, don't talk about filthy low women.

@Scotguy: If you read the history you will know that every powerful civilization rises and then falls, I'm not saying this because I'm ahmadi najad carrying the slogan of "USA the greatest devil will be down", I'm saying this because this is a simple truth. The degradation of the civilizarion starts from a corrupted society, when every individual thinks that he is created to persue happiness. While he is created to perform his duty.
You know the Islamic civilization was once the greatest just like the west nowadays, they had lots of scientists and creative men although their ruler always claimed that he is a divine ruler assigned by god, so tell me do you still think that more options and democracy equals creativity and success

Hi, I totally agree with you but I think all would incline to many ways rather than the original topic,  but way? because eastern and westerns never know each other more. I have many experience out of Arab countries specially Europe and I was thinking I know the westerns so much untill last visit to Europe before few months ago, I discovered that I was totally wrong because these very short trips never enough to explore the community there.

Also westerns still look at Arab countries as a low developed countries in the world spite they didn't say that directly but you can extract it from thier minds.

All countries and communities have special and private traditions, everyone have to and must respect the values of the another and stop cram his nose in the affairs of others and tries to change it.

The creator of sociology in the world as known is the African Arab Tunisian Ibn Khaldun, he said that any society in the world based on three main rules 1- language, 2- religion, and 3- traditions . don’t touch these three bases and do not try to affect them because you will never welcome.

Once, I asked my US friend (best PhD friend) why you see yourself as a model and others should follow you? I mean US as all. Who gave you this right? Do you have any permission from God saying you are right?

All of us are thinking and believe in something, it's OK all are free but stop here, dot.

Dont consider others are wrong because you may be wrong not them. Why people awing to drage others to thier believes and values?

Finally I want to say all are free and right or at least consider them right and stop to distribute these heavy-handed advices to the world as usually US do (not US people I mean) considers itself is the model and the others must follow .. Personally, I like Americans a lot, but I love my country and my culture a lot more I do not want change .. and will learn it to my children and my grandchildren .. Because it is simply my roots that if I left it, i will be as a trivial feather in the wind.

Please be friend .. Please stop your desire to change me.. that's all.


I think I went out of the topic .. so sorry all, but I was want to say that to all .. we can debate everything but avoid that hidden desire to change others..

I love you all .. and respect you all and your values what they are..

so many big  paras to read and i am so lazy.

From_Lebanon wrote:

@Scotguy: If you read the history you will know that every powerful civilization rises and then falls, I'm not saying this because I'm ahmadi najad carrying the slogan of "USA the greatest devil will be down", I'm saying this because this is a simple truth. The degradation of the civilizarion starts from a corrupted society, when every individual thinks that he is created to persue happiness. While he is created to perform his duty.
You know the Islamic civilization was once the greatest just like the west nowadays, they had lots of scientists and creative men although their ruler always claimed that he is a divine ruler assigned by god, so tell me do you still think that more options and democracy equals creativity and success

Well, to answer your question... YES. Absolutely., the more rules a society has, the more it stifles creativity. But it goes beyond that. It's a cultural difference that makes one more successive than another. The culture in the ME (Middle East) is to have things remain the same. This principle is what keeps the ME from moving forward. The culture of the west is to improve things, make things more efficient and easier. To always find a better way to accomplish the same thing using less. Less resources, less time, less people etc. The ME still shits in a hole in the ground… come on!!! This is not progress. To keep women from being able to even drive cars isn’t exactly the most progressive wouldn’t you say?
As for history, yes, you are correct. All civilizations have crumbled at some point. But I don’t think we are in a world now that allows that. We may allow a change in regime/leadership… but the country will still remain. Good examples of this are Iraq, Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt.  They essentially fell… but they still remain. Just with a change in government.  And the countries in the west would be no different. Though I doubt any of them could ever be led by a tyrant. Not anymore. People have tasted freedom and will never allow the chains to be put back on.

From_Lebanon, you hit the nail right on the head with that.

to answer your question, it is neither love nor lust, it is vengeance for being neglected. i hope u have no doubt in ur mind that her partner is off sleeping around as well. also, frustration.

q8rashed wrote:

It seems that more and more Muslim Women are finding love out side the box,if you know what I mean? They seem like they are becoming more out spoken and are approaching Non-Muslim Men for conversation and friendship, me I think it is okay because one of them told me she still is in love with Tu-Pac Hahaha.. And one of them still loves Biggie Smalls as well Lol..
so seriously let chat about it because love changes the world..


..Did you mean American Muslim womens or Chinese Muslim womens
or euro muslim womens or arab muslem womens ..Muslim womens in all races my frend

Well I was speaking in terms more of the Middle East because of the Muslim Country it self. It does not matter the nationality. But for being here for a time. I see that humans will be human and the matters of the heart will come before the culture and no matter what country you are from. Love and attraction has no color or face.

@Scotguy forgive me for texting this to you by my phone. But I am from the United States born and raised. When people call us Devils I wonder if they are talking to me or the powers that be? So you must be clear and explain yourself? There are smart people all over the world and most of the People from your country and others send there children to my country to get a education?? So are we devils or givers?? When people are hungry I see the Red Cross and they service the world for hunger as much as the can. We all have Presidents and Kings; some good some bad and God is just thru his people weather they serve him thru Islam or thru Christainty and see learning the Knowledge of him can be taught thru many areas and see it doesn't make one way Good or Bad and for those who believe there is only one way is ignorant of all ways that will bring us to Him. It took people from all over the world to build America and that's why she is strong. Because we have grown to the knowledge that God loves us all the same and by that Power we explore and doors open to even more freedoms. So America is strong by the love of God and nothing else my friends. So may we all have love for one another and not curse each other...

I know there are many cultures in the state of Kuwait and there may be many practices. But I think love is the true key to the point. We should (God)love eachother. Did you catch that? God is Love. So that love has a right and those rights should be explored with in the goodness of happiness. If you neglect someone your love; what you have become to love less the positive energy turns into a negative one and that love will reconnect with what is equal to them. So every thing is noticable when its in a tight spot cause you can see it in the faces and I am only expressing what is to me here in Kuwait.

Marquis7 wrote:

@Scotguy But I am from the United States born and raised. When people call us Devils I wonder if they are talking to me or the powers that be? So you must be clear and explain yourself?

Marquis,
  I am also an American (born and raised even), but I don't think that has much to do with this conversation. It is only an western perspective and I leave it at that. I also do not like to make this a Christian versus Muslim conversation. I was talking about culture. God never entered the picture. Please do not missunderstand what I was talking about. I hope that I have made myself "clear" in this.

Now, back to the original conversation:
Why some women here (in the Middle East) have turned toward western men.

I think it has a lot to do with the culture in the ME being oppressive and the freedoms that come with western men.  Me, being a western man, would never ask/expect some of the things that are common place here in the ME.  Example: My girlfriend calls and says, “ Hey, I’m going to lunch with friends.” My response is simply, “have a good time and be safe.” I don’t really need to know with who or where. I don’t particularly care. As long as there is trust, we are good. Notice I didn’t have her ask? I don’t think she should have to ask. I only ask that she let me know, not ask permission.

But this is gleaned from the western culture that women are equals, not property or lesser people. I expect that she will treat me the way I treat her and vice versa. I don’t expect to be questioned with I say I’m going to lunch with friends.

Now this is only one example and probably not the best one at that. Just take it at face value…

@Satcumguy

Well said Sir. As we grown in Knowledge we change and except things a little better.But very well said.

Satcomguy wrote:

I think it has a lot to do with the culture in the ME being oppressive and the freedoms that come with western men.  Me, being a western man, would never ask/expect some of the things that are common place here in the ME.

with all due respect SCG it would appear ur making the western man out to be the savior whilst the middle eastern man is an oppressive tyrant. u r generalizing my friend, and going by stereotypes.

this is all in good natured debate, however, the one thing you are all missing here is that there is NO GENERAL RULE, the heart wants what it wants, it has nothing to do with oppression or trust, its a matter of the human condition.

if what u are saying is true then all ME women would be marrying their knights in shining armor from the west, which is not the case. there are cases where it does happen, however your analysis of it being as a result of abuse or repression or negligence from their ME Male counterparts is faulty.

@Lg

If you took a survey and ask the women in the middle east do they feel Opressed or have lack of trust with in the culture you will get a big response. I don't think there would be news reports of women beating there husbands or and speaking out on there needs if they were not getting what they needed in there relationships. Now it doesn't mean that American men have come to save them; I think because we have been thru what the Men in the Middle East here are faced with, with dealing with women because at one point we also believed a womans place was in the home and they didn't have the same freedoms we had as Men. So when some women come in. Contact and conversate with us I guess you can say we give them that sense of freedom that they feel is or has been takin away from them. So I would just say set up a new Post and allow them to come forward and speak on there feeling.. What do you think about that?

I agree, lets have em speak out about their feelings.

once again, ur making it sound like the West is the pinnacle of evolution in terms of relationships, whereas I beg to differ. it is not an issue that can be generalized.

for example, and feel free to ask about this one; did u know that with ME women, they like to feel their significant others are jealous over them and who they spend time with? if ur on twitter, feel free to follow @3aibAndTheCity for an insight into the ME female psyche. it is not as u think.

legacy wrote:

I agree, lets have em speak out about their feelings.

once again, ur making it sound like the West is the pinnacle of evolution in terms of relationships, whereas I beg to differ. it is not an issue that can be generalized.

for example, and feel free to ask about this one; did u know that with ME women, they like to feel their significant others are jealous over them and who they spend time with? if ur on twitter, feel free to follow @3aibAndTheCity for an insight into the ME female psyche. it is not as u think.

No Lg Noooo  
  I wanted you to know that surely the West is not the pinnacle of evolution
Cause trust me my Lil Brother believes a womans place is in the kitchen but thats why he is at home with him self and the dog! Hahahahaha
And yes I have ran into a few of the jealous types over here and yes I tell them that they are crazy also.. Because jealousy and love does not add together. Jealousy can drive you to hurt or kill the one you so call love because if you try that on a woman in the states she will have the Cops pick you up from work Lol.. so yes that would show a sign of being un-balanced because if I can't trust you, I don't need you should be the Moto right?

TRUST ME I KNOW! I want to show my significant other that i am open minded and dont mind her having her "me time" and other friends, but then she gets mad at me for not caring. they are looking for "cute" jealous not "Misery" jealous, u savvy?

i think the conclusion of this topic can be quickly drawn by men from all backgrounds. Womens needs are plenty, as are their moods.

there, i said it. now shoot me

legacy wrote:

with all due respect SCG it would appear ur making the western man out to be the savior whilst the middle eastern man is an oppressive tyrant. u r generalizing my friend, and going by stereotypes.

this is all in good natured debate, however, the one thing you are all missing here is that there is NO GENERAL RULE, the heart wants what it wants, it has nothing to do with oppression or trust, its a matter of the human condition.

if what u are saying is true then all ME women would be marrying their knights in shining armor from the west, which is not the case. there are cases where it does happen, however your analysis of it being as a result of abuse or repression or negligence from their ME Male counterparts is faulty.

My apology Legacy, you are right. I was making a generalization, and I do not  intend it to apply to every man in the middle east, let alone every female. Furthermore, I am not saying that western men are saviors or knights in shining armor. The west has its share of controlling men and control freaks, we all know that. But my point is that it’s not common practice. Perhaps one out of 10, maybe, personally I would say more like 1 in 30 or so.  But none to the extent that I have seen, read, and heard about males in the ME.

Here in the ME, men make it a point to show that they are superior to women and I personally hate that. But I’ll not say that it’s wrong. I just don’t agree with it. But that is the culture here. I personally think that women should be, and are, my equal. Not everything is my decision. Not everything is up to me. I am not always right. And I do not always do things better than “she” would have done. But most men in the ME feel this way. 

As a side note: I am generalizing a population and I realize that. However, as long as “most” (more than half) are as I’ve said, then the generalization is true. I could also say most men in the ME are X instead of an implied generalization, but I thought it redundant.