Travel to Da Lat, new freeway

Experience in the USA, reference especially Los Angeles, California, is that building multi-lane expressways (freeways) does not ease congestion and does not speed traffic in the long run. It just attracts more drivers and their vehicles. Soon after the new roads open, they are choked with vehicles.

Better way is to build rail lines for goods and passengers, which use much less land and can carry more tonnage of material and people. Also, the carbon footprint of trains is lower, more manageable, and more easily adapted to future need and availability of conversion to even lower carbon pollution.

Don't do it!

Lennerd wrote:

Experience in the USA, reference especially Los Angeles, California, is that building multi-lane expressways (freeways) does not ease congestion and does not speed traffic in the long run. It just attracts more drivers and their vehicles. Soon after the new roads open, they are choked with vehicles.

Better way is to build rail lines for goods and passengers, which use much less land and can carry more tonnage of material and people. Also, the carbon footprint of trains is lower, more manageable, and more easily adapted to future need and availability of conversion to even lower carbon pollution.

Don't do it!

Excellent observation.

I also noticed something interesting one time, driving south on the "San Diego Freeway" (I-405)  and connecting to Interstate 5 southbound:

As total lanes expanded and congestion momentarily eased, I would have thought that traffic congestion wouldn't be a problem anymore.

But because there is very little if any restriction enforcement on speed in this area, the vast majority of drivers simply drive much faster (maybe they were driving as fast as 45 to 55 miles per hour in the previous backup and now they are speeding at rates in excess of 75 miles per hour).

Soon the congestion is even worse, leading me to believe that as you allow people to drive faster, more cars reach a certain congestion point at the same time, causing even greater congestion at the next funnel point for traffic.

Just a guess.

Nothing scientific about my hypothesis.

Because of the need to keep greater distance between cars the faster they go, a car moving fast requires a larger chunk of roadway. Thus, while an individual driver may feel hemmed in driving 20 mph on a 6-lane freeway, many more cars can pass a given point on the road in a given amount of time if the cars are packed in and going slowly than if they are spaced out and going fast.

It's simply a matter of many cars' drivers wanting to go in the same direction at the same time.

Most of the time when a freeway is packed in, all the people in all the cars visible to a single driver -- looking ahead and looking behind in the mirror -- would fit on a single train with room to spare.

Trains can carry many people without having to space the cars out as speeds increase. If traffic increases, they can add more cars to the train.

Same goes for freight.

Lennerd wrote:

Because of the need to keep greater distance between cars the faster they go, a car moving fast requires a larger chunk of roadway. Thus, while an individual driver may feel hemmed in driving 20 mph on a 6-lane freeway, many more cars can pass a given point on the road in a given amount of time if the cars are packed in and going slowly than if they are spaced out and going fast.

It's simply a matter of many cars' drivers wanting to go in the same direction at the same time.

Most of the time when a freeway is packed in, all the people in all the cars visible to a single driver -- looking ahead and looking behind in the mirror -- would fit on a single train with room to spare.

Trains can carry many people without having to space the cars out as speeds increase. If traffic increases, they can add more cars to the train.

Same goes for freight.

100% correct Lennerd BUT,,, the inconvenience of going to station parking, waiting for the train, arriviing with no vehicle at the destination makes rail travel a pain in the ass, especially when going on holiday or back home with luggage, gifts etc.
Vietnamese have got used to buses and go many long trips on them, however the people who have cars bypass the buses and trains for the jump in the car and go ease, same as most western people it's just easier and more convienient, to travel to your own time table, own comfort, own music, go where you want where you want that cars provide.
From the day I bought a car back in 1978 i've never use a bus or train I cant see Vietnamese who have cars swapping them for a train.
City workers jumping on a bus or train to go to work I get they dont have the hassle of parking in the city.

Lennerd wrote:

Because of the need to keep greater distance between cars the faster they go, a car moving fast requires a larger chunk of roadway. Thus, while an individual driver may feel hemmed in driving 20 mph on a 6-lane freeway, many more cars can pass a given point on the road in a given amount of time if the cars are packed in and going slowly than if they are spaced out and going fast.

It's simply a matter of many cars' drivers wanting to go in the same direction at the same time.

Most of the time when a freeway is packed in, all the people in all the cars visible to a single driver -- looking ahead and looking behind in the mirror -- would fit on a single train with room to spare.

Trains can carry many people without having to space the cars out as speeds increase. If traffic increases, they can add more cars to the train.

Same goes for freight.

Except, on California freeways, during those moments when traffic is moving quickly (70 to 75 MPH) it is totally normal for vehicles to be within 1 car length of each other.

So in my example in the previous post, the cars is going 45 to 50 miles an hour were within one car length of each other, and they maintained that same gap when the speed increased to 70 - 75 and even 80 miles per hour.

Trust me I am not exaggerating.

Quiet interesting that all comments refer back to their home countries The O/p is talking about Viet Nam where the motor scooter is king. Most of the population can't afford a car. It wont be for many years that the general population will be suffering motorway congestion in Viet Nam in cars

MarkinNam wrote:

Quiet interesting that all comments refer back to their home countries The O/p is talking about Viet Nam where the motor scooter is king. Most of the population can't afford a car. It wont be for many years that the general population will be suffering motorway congestion in Viet Nam in cars

I Live in HCMC and going out on any given day the roads are full of cars, on Fridays or any holiday the roads are nose to nose with cars, same with peak times in the week it's nose to nose, try coming back from Vung Tau to HCMC on a Sunday or last day of any holiday, the road is FULL of cars 3 hr + tail backs on CT01 in bound to HCMC, there is a huge amout of people that have them and non are going to give them up to go to Da Lat on a train.

Not sure when the last time you were on a road in HCMC but trust me it's packed with cars, pick up time for school is a nightmare, many roads are now having houses demolished to widen roads.

You must have lived in Vietnam for ions if you have traveled to Da Lat by train. Has been no such animal for long long time.

MarkinNam wrote:

Quiet interesting that all comments refer back to their home countries The O/p is talking about Viet Nam where the motor scooter is king. Most of the population can't afford a car. It wont be for many years that the general population will be suffering motorway congestion in Viet Nam in cars

Its obvious you have never travelled on the Long Thanh highway that connects Saigon with Vung Tau. Try it on a Sunday afternoon.

Diazo wrote:

You must have lived in Vietnam for ions if you have traveled to Da Lat by train. Has been no such animal for long long time.

I was refering to the comment that the highway would get blocked and a train is better,,, I was saying people would not give up thier cars for a train.

Sorry I must have been confused. I thought few were willing to give up their cars to travel to Da Lat by train. I would agreee that few would, even fewer would travel by train to DaLat. Not at least now....because there is no train, and has been for a long time. So the point is folks, keep tge car if you want to go to Da Lat. Great point though.

colinoscapee wrote:

MarkinNam wrote:

Quiet interesting that all comments refer back to their home countries The O/p is talking about Viet Nam where the motor scooter is king. Most of the population can't afford a car. It wont be for many years that the general population will be suffering motorway congestion in Viet Nam in cars

Its obvious you have never travelled on the Long Thanh highway that connects Saigon with Vung Tau. Try it on a Sunday afternoon.

glad to be obvious, wouldn't want to be considered a secret squirrel

MarkinNam wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

MarkinNam wrote:

Quiet interesting that all comments refer back to their home countries The O/p is talking about Viet Nam where the motor scooter is king. Most of the population can't afford a car. It wont be for many years that the general population will be suffering motorway congestion in Viet Nam in cars

Its obvious you have never travelled on the Long Thanh highway that connects Saigon with Vung Tau. Try it on a Sunday afternoon.

glad to be obvious, wouldn't want to be considered a secret squirrel

I suppose when you dont actually live here it makes it hard to know what is really going on.

brilliant observation, thanks buddy

MarkinNam wrote:

brilliant observation, thanks buddy

Youre welcome. Maybe when you arrive back you will see how much has changed.

Whatever highways they build, hopefully they include separate lanes for motorbikes with high, impenetrable barriers.

When they widen streets in HCMC, that extra space seems to inevitably be used as illegal parking by one guy in an SUV causing a traffic jam for a few thousand motorbikes.

Now would be a good time for them to put restrictions on personal cars/SUVs, while people are still used to not having them, before it gets too far out of hand.

Miss it so much, Friends most of all, despite the apparent indifference when I'm away my return is always warm and a celebration. of good times and developments. some losses along the way but they have proven disingenuous types. I have friends here who served in the war there, who get back rarely, boy are they in for a surprise !!  It's difficult to keep abreast with every thing going on there but I try and when I see something which I believe others may like to know about, I share forgetting I'm still an outsider. Regards, Mark

It may be an opportunity for multi-story parking

MarkinNam wrote:

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Thus, after these highways are completed will contribute to the massive economic and social drive between 2 Southeast and Central Highlands. Let's wait for the day this highway is complete!
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Source of article: riviu. Vietnam
Image: Quynh Tran
😌 So we are going to Da Lat soon like going to the market )
#ghiendalat

I bet they are Toll highways. Rake in the revenue.

also, contracts to build highways will have plenty of tea money floating around. Environment suffers. Then blame other countries for environment degrading and announcing 'as a coastal county, Vietnam is doing everything to protect environment'.