Meralco May Bills Increasing

What do u think about me buying  buying 8,000 watt generator running lights off 12 volt (12 volt led  just as bright as electric ones ) but each generator takes 5 gallons of gasoline ?

cltisdale wrote:

What do u think about me buying  buying 8,000 watt generator running lights off 12 volt (12 volt led  just as bright as electric ones ) but each generator takes 5 gallons of gasoline ?

Lighting is easy with a simple solar panel and small battery, but that will do almost nothing to reduce your electricity bills.
If you need 2k, you have to be running air conditioning units - much harder to keep running with solar ..... but not impossible.
Daytime use just means solar panels and and inverter, but night time means a bank of very expensive batteries.
If I turned on every light in my house at once, it would draw less than 45 watts because they're all LED.
The fridge is 100 watts or so, but the microwave (Short bursts) is 1,300w.
All can be run 24 hours on solar with battery storage, but none take enough power to make it worth installing a solar system.
If I could run the AC from solar, that's another story - but the costs would take a good 10 years to recover in the form of reduced bills.

Fred wrote:

cltisdale wrote:

What do u think about me buying  buying 8,000 watt generator running lights off 12 volt (12 volt led  just as bright as electric ones ) but each generator takes 5 gallons of gasoline ?

Lighting is easy with a simple solar panel and small battery, but that will do almost nothing to reduce your electricity bills.
If you need 2k, you have to be running air conditioning units - much harder to keep running with solar ..... but not impossible.
Daytime use just means solar panels and and inverter, but night time means a bank of very expensive batteries.
If I turned on every light in my house at once, it would draw less than 45 watts because they're all LED.
The fridge is 100 watts or so, but the microwave (Short bursts) is 1,300w.
All can be run 24 hours on solar with battery storage, but none take enough power to make it worth installing a solar system.
If I could run the AC from solar, that's another story - but the costs would take a good 10 years to recover in the form of reduced bills.

Fred is quite right about solar, in the states the cost of installing solar would be about $2.81 a watt or 134.5 php per watt.  In the states you would get a 26% tax credit to offset the cost.

Not for reducing your electric bill, but emergency use, a small generator for lights, fans, rice cooker & refrigerator would seem more practical.

Fred wrote:

If I could run the AC from solar, that's another story - but the costs would take a good 10 years to recover in the form of reduced bills.

Thats exactly what I need a cheaper version of a complete 'Solar AC's' set....& help me stay away as much as possible fm the local grid.

Is it just me or is inflation much worse here than elsewhere?

Prices have been going up almost everywhere since the pandemic started, here in the States too, but inflation even in normal years runs about double there what it is in the States..

pnwcyclist wrote:

Prices have been going up almost everywhere since the pandemic started, here in the States too, but inflation even in normal years runs about double there what it is in the States..

Going off the OP's original topic but following the thread. Philippines is currently running at 2.5% inflation rate (so we are told) so much better than 2 or 3 years ago at 5%.
One only has to look at:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL.ZG

To workout here in the Philippines that the inflation rate is mediocre especially for a supposed 3rd world country compared to some (not all) first and second world countries, let's hope it drops further but I'm sure if it does our electricity bills won't.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

pnwcyclist wrote:

Prices have been going up almost everywhere since the pandemic started, here in the States too, but inflation even in normal years runs about double there what it is in the States..

I'm responding from a US point of view
Unfortunately what they use as guide lines for inflation doesn't mirror what some inflatable things people spend money on.

For example plywood sells for $80 a sheet, to frame a house a year ago $14,000, now above $28,000. Corn prices has risen 50% in 2021. Given time inflation will trickle up to the consumer. Each step of the way up it will compound itself before it reaches us.

You want to know how misguided the indexes they use, just look at the increases of your SS. Each year I scratch my head and say "WTF".

manwonder wrote:

Fred wrote:

If I could run the AC from solar, that's another story - but the costs would take a good 10 years to recover in the form of reduced bills.

Thats exactly what I need a cheaper version of a complete 'Solar AC's' set....& help me stay away as much as possible fm the local grid.

A disabled monkey with a screwdriver could set up a low voltage lighting system powered by solar.
There are (expensive) all in one units you just bung a solar panel into that will look after all your low power stuff. As they have an inverter built in, you just have to wire your house lights to it and Bob's your uncle.
If I were to build a new place now, all low power circuits would be separated so I could power them from solar.

Fred wrote:

manwonder wrote:

Fred wrote:

If I could run the AC from solar, that's another story - but the costs would take a good 10 years to recover in the form of reduced bills.

Thats exactly what I need a cheaper version of a complete 'Solar AC's' set....& help me stay away as much as possible fm the local grid.

A disabled monkey with a screwdriver could set up a low voltage lighting system powered by solar.
There are (expensive) all in one units you just bung a solar panel into that will look after all your low power stuff. As they have an inverter built in, you just have to wire your house lights to it and Bob's your uncle.
If I were to build a new place now, all low power circuits would be separated so I could power them from solar.

Nope...I've checked with some monkeys but its a bit more complex for installing a All Solar powered Aircon....maybe I'll try checking with something else
Thanks

I know Australia has it readily available.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.domain … 15433/amp/

I also know that a Shandong Vicot Air Conditioning Co., Ltd, were the 1st to invent such a system if I'm not mistaken)
However not heard of it being available anywhere here.

manwonder wrote:

Nope...I've checked with some monkeys but its a bit more complex for installing a All Solar powered Aircon....maybe I'll try checking with something else
Thanks

The monkeys could manage the lighting but powering AC is another matter.

Fred wrote:

manwonder wrote:

Nope...I've checked with some monkeys but its a bit more complex for installing a All Solar powered Aircon....maybe I'll try checking with something else
Thanks

The monkeys could manage the lighting but powering AC is another matter.

I think the monkeys are not at fault its the gray-rhino event we are now facing but instead many chose to ignore…the only uncertainty is when and how the event will occur...."inflation" 

Inflation. . . Inflation. . . Inflation. . . .I was watching an economist on the news (US) and he said the real rate of inflation is the highest since the 1980's.

He said it's not going to end, his indicator is that each month it is increasing. So you think gold is a hedge against inflation? The market went down over 600 points, Gold also went down in price.

His advice to consumers is buy as much consumable items as you can afford because they are going to be more expensive, too bad we can't do that with Meralco.

Another reason he said buy now because other hoarders will beat you too it and there may be shortages or nothing left to buy and governments may start using price controls.

My last bill from Meralco said system loss 3.14%. I think they should have said squatters subsidy.

Enzyte Bob wrote:

Inflation. . . Inflation. . . Inflation. . . .I was watching an economist on the news (US) and he said the real rate of inflation is the highest since the 1980's.

He said it's not going to end, his indicator is that each month it is increasing. So you think gold is a hedge against inflation? The market went down over 600 points, Gold also went down in price.

His advice to consumers is buy as much consumable items as you can afford because they are going to be more expensive, too bad we can't do that with Meralco.

Another reason he said buy now because other hoarders will beat you too it and there may be shortages or nothing left to buy and governments may start using price controls.

My last bill from Meralco said system loss 3.14%. I think they should have said squatters subsidy.

Yup...Hoarding sounds like a great business to be in especially here.

manwonder wrote:

Fred wrote:

manwonder wrote:

Nope...I've checked with some monkeys but its a bit more complex for installing a All Solar powered Aircon....maybe I'll try checking with something else
Thanks

The monkeys could manage the lighting but powering AC is another matter.

I think the monkeys are not at fault its the gray-rhino event we are now facing but instead many chose to ignore…the only uncertainty is when and how the event will occur...."inflation" 

Inflation is an enormous problem (See crisis 1997), but what do we have today?

House prices are going up to the point where fewer and fewer people can afford to buy a house. Many can't be sold at the asking price, but they ask anyway so they remain unsold.

The stock market is going up, but the global economy is going down - Why is something that should be worth less, worth more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR6F03GPTyY

I have no debt, have minimised all personal expenditure, and slowed down buying anything (except my lovely Chromebook and other tech). If it all goes to poop, I fully intend to be in the best possible position.

Enzyte Bob wrote:

In April Meralco raised the cost of electric service, that means a customer consuming 200 kwh saw their bill increase by17 Pesos.

In May Meralco is raising the cost of electric service, that means a customer who consumed 200 kwh will see their bill increase by 37 Pesos.

Let's see how my bill would increase.

We used up 533 kwh in March. On average, we use up 600 kwh per month. So in April, my bill would be higher by 51 pesos based on average. And in May, my bill would increase by 162 pesos.

We're already paying an average of 6,000 pesos a month. Is the 162-peso increase really an issue for us? No.

I remember when we were still living in San Francisco, California, our PG&E bill increased by a LOT during summer even though we use less because there's no need to use the heater. The increase is due to additional charges for "grid maintenance." The bill is even worse for my relatives who live in Suisun City, who run their aircon because it's hot during summer.  I think it's unfair to charge grid maintenance to customers. I run a business, but I don't charge customers extra when I need to repair, maintain or replace equipment.

FilAmericanMom wrote:

Enzyte Bob wrote:

In April Meralco raised the cost of electric service, that means a customer consuming 200 kwh saw their bill increase by17 Pesos.

In May Meralco is raising the cost of electric service, that means a customer who consumed 200 kwh will see their bill increase by 37 Pesos.

Let's see how my bill would increase.

We used up 533 kwh in March. On average, we use up 600 kwh per month. So in April, my bill would be higher by 51 pesos based on average. And in May, my bill would increase by 162 pesos.

We're already paying an average of 6,000 pesos a month. Is the 162-peso increase really an issue for us? No.

I remember when we were still living in San Francisco, California, our PG&E bill increased by a LOT during summer even though we use less because there's no need to use the heater. The increase is due to additional charges for "grid maintenance." The bill is even worse for my relatives who live in Suisun City, who run their aircon because it's hot during summer.  I think it's unfair to charge grid maintenance to customers. I run a business, but I don't charge customers extra when I need to repair, maintain or replace equipment.

Yes 37 pesos for 200 KWH, but I don't know if the price increase stops at 200 kwh. I'm using 933 kwh. With Aprils increase of 17 PHP and Mays increase of 37 PHP (Total 54 PHP). So my bill will go up 251.9 PHP ($5.27 USD). Meralco increased prices in April & May, will we see more price increases in the future with rises of inflation?

Inflation: Now the important effect is on the lowest level of goods and services produced before it reaches me. Everyone of those enterprises will add on their increased cost. Our cost will vary on how many different companies had some part of the chain. Businesses will not stay in business over the long haul if they don't pass on the cost of inflation, there is only so much they can absorb (which was passed along to them), beyond them passing it along.

I moved here in August 2018, since I've been here the dollar peaked out at 54.28 PHP, today it's worth 47.8 PHP.

FilAmericanMom wrote:

I remember when we were still living in San Francisco, California, our PG&E bill increased by a LOT during summer even though we use less because there's no need to use the heater. The increase is due to additional charges for "grid maintenance." The bill is even worse for my relatives who live in Suisun City, who run their aircon because it's hot during summer.  I think it's unfair to charge grid maintenance to customers. I run a business, but I don't charge customers extra when I need to repair, maintain or replace equipment.

Regulated utilities like PG&E, which are the only player in most markets in Calif (and most states) are allowed to pass on certain expenses directly since they can't use a normal competitive profit model like you do in your business. There are pluses and minuses to the model but at least there have been no situations like in Texas this winter where the "for profit" utility model left customers with no power for weeks and thousand dollar bills because  so many utilities, operating in a competitive market, neglected basic maintenance to increase their profits. On the other hand, PG&E has had to cut power during summer windstorms and high fire risk events.

They have spent a fortune in the past decade trying to upgrade and better maintain the grid to prevent transmission line precipitated forest fires which have increased significantly due to climate change related drought. Whole towns have been consumed by fire, with large loss of life, like Paradise, CA a few years ago, large sections of Santa Rosa, etc.. Most of this work is done in the early summer, so that might well have something to do with that fee for grid maintenance that you were charged. Still it does seem odd that your summer bills were actually higher than winter. I never experienced that in all my years there so understand the concern. Just wanted to point out really, that the model is different for single market utilities. It is probably a similar situation for Meralco and Veco and all the others in the Philippine markets.

Current domestic kwh price in the philipines average   .177 usd  , indonesia   .103 so the phils is paying 70% more vs a similar country nearby , in bali we have stable voltage  a power cut  around a year ago for maybe 20 minutes .

The power situation in the phils reminds me of somalia 30 years ago , power on and off ,and of course unstable voltage ,boring , and you have to pay more for the privilege.

If indonesia can achieve stable affordable power ,why not the philipines ?

scouser59 wrote:

Current domestic kwh price in the philipines average   .177 usd  , indonesia   .103 so the phils is paying 70% more vs a similar country nearby , in bali we have stable voltage  a power cut  around a year ago for maybe 20 minutes .

I don't know about how you interpreted those prices, but I leave it to the resident mathematician BIGPEARL to sort it out.

I went to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) website. You can Google it rather than me giving a URL that would be under review longer than this thread is alive.

The US average cost per kwh: Residential $13.34     Commercial $11.93    Industrial $8.15

Lowest Missouri:                        Residential $9.35       Commercial $7.94      Industrial $6.71

Highest Rhode Island:               Residential $24.09     Commercial $16.86    Industrial $13.97

Many years ago I built a house in Warrenville, Illinois. I liked the idea of baseboard electric heat where you can control each room and no blower noise. I consulted with the Electric Company what it would cost to heat this house. They gave me a deal, if I wouldn't run a gas line into the house, making the house all electric they would give me an 80% discount in kwh price. Their estimation was way off and even with the huge discount, I was paying through the nose.

check out

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Indo … ty_prices/

scouser59 wrote:

check out

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Indo … ty_prices/

Unfortunately from the Philippines your reference Link is blocked.

Message to me:
403 Forbidden 
You don't have permission to access this resource.

try this link ,its working here

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Indo … ty_prices/

scouser59 wrote:

Current domestic kwh price in the philipines average   .177 usd  , indonesia   .103 so the phils is paying 70% more vs a similar country nearby , in bali we have stable voltage  a power cut  around a year ago for maybe 20 minutes .

I went to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) website. You can Google it rather than me giving a URL that would be under review longer than this thread is alive.
The US average cost per kwh: Residential $13.34     Commercial $11.93    Industrial $8.15

Lowest Missouri:                        Residential $9.35       Commercial $7.94      Industrial $6.71

Highest Rhode Island:               Residential $24.09     Commercial $16.86    Industrial $13.97

Lets try this again Scouser59, the link you gave again is blocked, probably because of my ISP address.

The prices quoted above by me are correct and current as of February 2021. My numbers are provided  by US Government.

The way I understand your electricity  price as quoted for the Philippines is 17.7 USD per kwh and 10.3 USD for Indonesia. I think those figures may not be current or correct from your source.

My math using these figures are from my last Meralco Bill and current value of the USD to PHP.

Bill: 8,993 PHP
US Dollar is worth 47.85 PHP
933 KWH Used.

So, 8993 PHP divided by 47.85 is $187.94 USD
The $187.94 USD divided by 933 KWH is $20.14 USD per KWH in the Philippines.

hmm , try doing a google search , indonesia cost per kw domestic ? , it always comes up on the first page ,

Indonesia electricity prices, September 2020 ...
https://www.globalpetrolprices.com › Indonesia › electr...
Indonesia, September 2020: The price of electricity is 0.103 U.S. Dollar per kWh for households and 0.073 U.S. Dollar for businesses which includes all ...

The site is also used as a reference by wikipedia

you will also find the phils and others on the first page

I presume your bill is for 1 month ? we have 3 1kw  acs ,hot water plus all the usual ,our avaerage our average monthly bill is less than 50 usd ,just to give you an idea.

Regards

Bob, stop moving your decimals. $187.94 divided by 933 kWh Is $.2014, or 20.14 cents per kWh, not $20.14 per kWh. If it was $20.14 per kWh, your bill would be $18,794.00 for one month, or 899,293 pesos. You’re scaring me, lol.

blacksheepjuno wrote:

Bob, stop moving your decimals. $187.94 divided by 933 kWh Is $.2014, or 20.14 cents per kWh, not $20.14 per kWh. If it was $20.14 per kWh, your bill would be $18,794.00 for one month, or 899,293 pesos. You’re scaring me, lol.

Didn't mean to scare you blacksheepjuno.

Everything was correct except my typo on the last line of the decimal. 933 kwh cost me $187.94 USD.

scouser59 wrote:

hmm , try doing a google search , indonesia cost per kw domestic ? , it always comes up on the first page ,

Indonesia electricity prices, September 2020 ...
https://www.globalpetrolprices.com › Indonesia › electr...
Indonesia, September 2020: The price of electricity is 0.103 U.S. Dollar per kWh for households and 0.073 U.S. Dollar for businesses which includes all ...

The site is also used as a reference by wikipedia

you will also find the phils and others on the first page

I presume your bill is for 1 month ? we have 3 1kw  acs ,hot water plus all the usual ,our avaerage our average monthly bill is less than 50 usd ,just to give you an idea.

Regards

My bill was for one month 933 kwh, I paid 8,993.31 php. or 9.64 pesos per kwh  ($187.94 USD)
The price we pay in the Philippines is higher than the  .177 you earlier quoted (Post #21), it is actually .201 from my bill.  So it appears  I am almost paying double of what you pay in Indonesia. My 933 kwh would have cost $96.10?  USD if in Indonesia.

You ask if Indonesia can achieve stable affordable power, why can't the Philippines? There is a whole lot into that question and I prefer others answer it.

Ya your right ,the phils is expensive for power ,dont know why ,indonesia is not perfect for sure ,many issues similar to the phils ,but the power is "rock solid" in java and bali . Iv lived in many  developing countries in the past , like somalia ,eritrea etc , power on and off ,unstable voltage , It is hard work ,no ac ,food going off ,damaged electrical goods , generators etc . Boring and expensive .