Overstay Brazil visa - fine

rhysbjj wrote:

in reality, i cannot afford to pay a fine of 10,000 reis to go to brazil for 2 weeks, its imposible for me.
can anyone give me any advice on how to enter brazil but avoid this?

Not really, particularly now while Brazil is shut down pretty tight because of covid.

The Federal Police have a process, available on their site, where people can apply to have their fines waived on the basis of poverty.  That's a hard case to make, though, for somebody who can afford a plane ticket.  The fine -- if it's charged -- is just part of the cost of returning.

Good luck mate, hoping you slip through the cracks on the fine. I wasn't so fortunate, and also presented countless documentation to prove I was in the process of marrying in Brazil but it was of no use in the end. Also, if you are still on the hook for the fine, you can expect interest on the original amount. Mine went from ~R$9800 up to about R$13,500-14,000 when I finally had to pay to get back into the country legally to actually marry my wife here.

As for George, I also went to every possible avenue to try and fight this fine, even as far as consulting with lawyers in Brazil and the unanimous advice from them all was that it would cost far, far more to fight this with a slim chance of getting rid of the fine than to just pay the fine and be done with it.

As for entering on new passport numbers, I am sure that doesn't actually matter, as I would think they are all linked on the system anyway, otherwise it seems too convenient for anyone up to no good? Simply lose your passport, get a new one with a different number and enter a country on a fresh visa etc. doesn't seem to make sense to me, but I am not an expert on that by any means.

Good advice from English Penguin.
If I recall he tried almost every avenue. From thinking of leaving BR to a neighboring country. Coming back via land.
He has been through it all.

Wow English Penguin, I did not know the fines with interest and fees could go over the R$10,000 magic maximum number.  Thank you for that information.

rraypo wrote:

Wow English Penguin, I did not know the fines with interest and fees could go over the R$10,000 magic maximum number.  Thank you for that information.

Imagine my frustration when arriving to pay it and seeing how much it went up and nobody a) warning me that this would happen and b) letting me pay when I was leaving the first time!

Just glad it's behind me, lesson learnt on overstaying visas for sure haha.

English Penguin wrote:

rraypo wrote:

Wow English Penguin, I did not know the fines with interest and fees could go over the R$10,000 magic maximum number.  Thank you for that information.

Imagine my frustration when arriving to pay it and seeing how much it went up and nobody a) warning me that this would happen and b) letting me pay when I was leaving the first time!

Just glad it's behind me, lesson learnt on overstaying visas for sure haha.

_____

And so many of us have pretty low daily and single transaction limits set on ATM cards etc., I know I do, and I only carry enough "cash" en route to get me through a couple of days.  I would not like to arrive to a rather large surprise like that one.

thanks everyone for your help and advice. it looks to be difficult to get around this. it is very annoying as when i first went to brazil the rule was a fine of 3-4 reis per day at a max. of around 850, so imagine my suprise when i went to leave brazil and they asked me for 5,500 reis! it seems ridiculous to charge this plus ask for interest. basically, it is not possible for me to go back to Brazil to visit the family there. i cant afford this fine so i need to cancel my trip.

does anyone know if there is some way to consult how much the fine would now be with the interest to know for sure?

is it possible to that this fine is canceled after a certain number of years? in my case it has already been 4 years since i left brazil so, either the interest accumulated is now massive, or i could wait a little longer if it is canceled after a certain number of years.

what a nightmare

thanks everyone for their help

Hey, as far as I remember, and just asked my wife again, it was after 5 years the fine is deleted. This may change, maybe even longer if they paused it over covid, but from what we recall it was 5 years normally.

It really does suck, trust me, I can sympathise on that, but really it's the rules they have. I was in similar disbelief as you are about the amount though, I was expecting it to be capped at around the same amount as the information I based it off was out of date annoyingly, so yeah, big shock to the system when leaving that time!

In speaking with an agent this week, he advised me that MJ has advised all airports to collect all fines with maximum interest when returning. Due to many that continue to overstay the allowed days, MJ desires to halt this ongoing problem. Deportation is included.
Agents on the PF offices "estrangeiros" section to review these issues and extension requests.

If the time in the PF is long now, it will be.

01/27/22

Thanks, Tex!

If the guidance to the officers at Immigration now is not to waive fines, but to direct the airlines to take the traveler back, that's important information.

This is very new guidance and we will see how it plays out (only announced last week). Deportation is the last resort from what I heard.  Agents have requested that archived information be available in the system to assist the process. The issue is how this will be done.
The PF and PRF are requesting more agents be hired.
It is already in effect (2017 laws) so not a new procedure, but difficult to enforce.

01/27/22

It's difficult to find out exactly what interest rate the Polícia Federal are charging, but it's probably 1% per month.  That's the rate that Article 161 of the National Tax Code orders for all interest charges under the Civil Code, unless a different rate is specified by law. 

So 1% per month is probably a good way to estimate the interest on an unpaid fine.

One thing to consider, while the overstay fines in Brazil may seem high, at least Brazil allows overstayers to re-enter their country, the USA does not. 

In the USA, the overstay penalties can be harsh:

"Unlawful presence is the period of time when you are in the United States without being admitted or paroled or when you are not in a “period of stay authorized by the Secretary.” You may be barred from being admitted to the United States for:

*Three years, if you depart the United States after having accrued more than 180 days but less than one year of unlawful presence during a single stay and before removal proceedings begin

*10 years, if you depart the United States after having accrued one year or more of unlawful presence during a single stay, regardless of whether you leave before, during, or after removal proceedings
or
*Permanently, if you reenter or try to reenter the United States without being admitted or paroled after having accrued more than one year of unlawful presence in the aggregate during one or more stays in the United States."

During those time periods of banned re-entry, if one attempts to obtain legal immigration, say through marriage, engagement, work, education, you will face huge delays, and very possibly, complete denials, (I help people with USCIS immigration, and give free U.S. Citizenship courses).  People with an overstay record will always face delays in any future immigration attempts.

(Here is the actual U.S. Law, https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req … ion=prelim)

Source of U.S. immigration and visa overstay information:
https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/o … issibility

That’s a good point, it’s not uncommon for countries to ‘blacklist’ overstayers for years. In the Thailand forum,  I’ve read numerous accounts from people who were barred from entering for 5 years.

rraypo wrote:

One thing to consider, while the overstay fines in Brazil may seem high, at least Brazil allows overstayers to re-enter their country, the USA does not. 

In the USA, the overstay penalties can be harsh:

"Unlawful presence is the period of time when you are in the United States without being admitted or paroled or when you are not in a “period of stay authorized by the Secretary.” You may be barred from being admitted to the United States for:

*Three years, if you depart the United States after having accrued more than 180 days but less than one year of unlawful presence during a single stay and before removal proceedings begin

*10 years, if you depart the United States after having accrued one year or more of unlawful presence during a single stay, regardless of whether you leave before, during, or after removal proceedings
or
*Permanently, if you reenter or try to reenter the United States without being admitted or paroled after having accrued more than one year of unlawful presence in the aggregate during one or more stays in the United States."

During those time periods of banned re-entry, if one attempts to obtain legal immigration, say through marriage, engagement, work, education, you will face huge delays, and very possibly, complete denials, (I help people with USCIS immigration, and give free U.S. Citizenship courses).  People with an overstay record will always face delays in any future immigration attempts.

(Here is the actual U.S. Law, https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req … ion=prelim)

Source of U.S. immigration and visa overstay information:
https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/o … issibility

And possibly only cash is accepted in brazil, sounds onerous

boombop4477 wrote:

And possibly only cash is accepted in brazil, sounds onerous

___
Most travelers carry money/cash, all travelers to foreign countries are expected to have the financial resources to be self-supportive while in another country.  In addition, I believe all of the entrance points, by air into Brazil would have banks and atm machines, so I do not see how this could be "onerous". 
One must also "assume" the overwhelming majority of people who overstayed their visas during their previous trips have to know and certainly have to be expecting some kind of punishment upon their arrival. The information is readily available, and very clear on dates of arrival, length of allowable stay etc.

As they say, their country, their rules

Who carries that much cash?ATMs have daily limits,why arent cards accepted?Makes zero sense,when many citizens are advised to carry as little cash as possible, being kind using the word onerous.

01/28/22

boombop4477 wrote:

Who carries that much cash?ATMs have daily limits,why arent cards accepted?Makes zero sense,when many citizens are advised to carry as little cash as possible, being kind using the word onerous.

What "makes zero sense" is to overstay one's visa. 

I, for one, am always happy to advise people about how to extricate themselves from the situations that they've put themselves into.  But I'm not ready to concede that they're anything but totally responsible for their dilemma, or that they're somehow victims because they chose not to follow another country's rules as guests.  Brazil has no responsibility to ease the way for scofflaws.

Separate issue,overstay vs zero sense,in my case there was something called covid 19,I overstayed 37 days,paid my fine,was willing to be deported, because cards arent accepted, I just happened  to have enough cash.

boombop4477 wrote:

Separate issue,overstay vs zero sense,in my case there was something called covid 19,I overstayed 37 days,paid my fine,was willing to be deported, because cards arent accepted, I just happened  to have enough cash.

Brazil was VERY generous with their Covid timeline and provided lots of extra days for visa overstayers at that time.  I travel in and out of Brazil frequently and have never had any issues.  I do not understand breaking their rules, and then complaining about how to pay there simple fees for it. Their rules can be found in seconds on Google, so there was never any hidden or blocked. 

Again, their country, their rather simple rules.  Why should any country make it easy for the people who break their rules?

Youre not addressing the issue,guess you havent been in rio,the utter economic devastation, people fighting over food,why not facilitate the payment of fines?Why possibly deport someone because theyre willing to pay,but dont have 10k in cash?Let them,pay with they're  card?You can buy gum with a card,its so dumb,stop comparing brazil to the usa,brazil has lost millios,much of theyre infrastructure built in rio is condusive to eco tourism,cant believe something so academic is being argued,take a walk in rio,its pitiful,and dont bring up,well in the usa...

All countries have governmental policies,immigration and otherwise,that can be considered not very intelligent, who suffers?Politicians live high on the hog,but people are hurt,many biz close,job losses,who wins?Tourism incredibly important in brazil,the bolsonaro adm facilatated tourism,actually promoted it by doing away with visas for some countries,thats very intelligent, lets facilitate fine payments and not deport gringos,yeah wr nerd them.

In all cases in the world:
Failure to comply with a condition or a breach of a condition renders the visa liable for cancellation. All conditions must be met and you are a guest.
Unless you have the right to vote in the country you are visiting, you can ask for laws to be changed (NO visa required).
Brazil never did away with visas, they waived the condition that you must go to a consulate/embassy for some countries for a paper or electronic visa. A waiver is still a visa!

Let's move on and try to help others.

01/29/22

Sorry for going off-topic on this, but I want to get the word out ASAP:

There is HUGE news this week for potential digital nomads in Brazil.  The National Immigration Council has finally published the regulation making it possible for digital nomads to obtain residency.  See this thread for details:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=973331

abthree wrote:

01/29/22

Sorry for going off-topic on this, but I want to get the word out ASAP:

There is HUGE news this week for potential digital nomads in Brazil.  The National Immigration Council has finally published the regulation making it possible for digital nomads to obtain residency.  See this thread for details:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=973331

This was what generated the two questions I asked about, the minimum age for retirement visas and working with one.  The group was attempting to compare the two visas.

Hello everyone, I stayed for 2 months in 2013 and I was given 500-odd money and I paid on my return in 2016 and there was no problem with it, but then when I left in November 2016, I stayed in Brazil for 3 months longer, but when I was leaving the country, no one fined me and I left the country by stamping the exit. I left and now I will enter Brazil again soon and I wonder if there will be a fine at the entrance and if there is a fine, will this be through the old law of 2017, that is, it will be calculated from the old law of 2017, that is, it is calculated from the law after 8 real days or after 2017, it is 100 reals per day and I would be happy if those who have experienced me answer, the money will be paid when leaving the country in 2016. I didn't get a receipt or anything, but I had 3 170 days in total.

Hi Everyone,

I am so glad that I found this thread. As I’m writing this, I’m currently sitting in GRU airport contemplating the 3,600rs fine that I just received for overstaying by 36 days.

From what I understand by reading other posts here, I’m not eligible to return for at least 3 months. Is that correct?

I’m going to ask a friend to pay the fine on my behalf as soon as possible because I will literally weep if any interest is added onto this.

How did you end up over staying you should just went to federal polícia and as for a consideration to extend that you had COVID and you forgot

Britanico_Bahiano wrote:

As I’m writing this, I’m currently sitting in GRU airport contemplating the 3,600rs fine that I just received for overstaying by 36 days.

From what I understand by reading other posts here, I’m not eligible to return for at least 3 months. Is that correct?

Hi, Britanico_Bahiano,

Was that 36 days after your 90 days plus a 90 day extension, or 36 days after 90 days?

As a Brit, you only get 180 days in every 365, so yes, if you got the extension, you have to wait to come back until some of those 216 days roll off your record.  If you didn't get extended, then you only have a 126 day problem.

02/09/22

dedecadaver wrote:

How did you end up over staying you should just went to federal polícia and as for a consideration to extend that you had COVID and you forgot

As I've said before, never, ever lie to the Polícia Federal. 

Thanks for the reply.

I stayed 36 days after my initial 90 days. I didn't apply for the extra 3 months so I'm hoping I can go back sooner.

02/09/22

Britanico_Bahiano

You should have an additional 50-54 days, at least.  Double-check with your area Brazilian Consulate before you buy your next ticket.

Hello, here is my situation I need help clarifying about the tourism visa. I am a US Citizen and below is my entire history of entry and exit to brasil.

I would like to know if I can return to brasil within the next month for up to 90 days on tourist visa?

My last visit, I stayed 93 days by accident. Will I be able to just pay the fine and re-enter brazil again next month? Or will I not be allowed entry because I overstayed 3 days? Can you explain this to me? I thought the entry was based on the first entry in any given year but now I understand that it is based on the first time I ever entered brasil which would be October 23, 2015. So even though I stayed 87 days on my 3rd trip, my year starts October 23rd. And I am not sure if I am eligible to stay another 90 days If I come back next month.


First Entry Date    23/Oct/2015   
First Exit Date    1/Nov/2015
10 days
Migratory Year: October 23, 2015 - October 22, 2016
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------         
Second Entry Date    23/Jan/2016   
Second Exit Date            1/feb/2016
10 days
Migratory Year: October 23, 2015 - October 22, 2016
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Third Entry Date    9/July/2021
Third Exit Date    3/Oct/2021
87 days
Migratory Year: October 23, 2020 - October 22, 2021
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------         
Fourth Entry Date    23/Oct/2021   
Fourth Exit Date       23/Jan/2022
93 dias
Migratory Year: October 23, 2021 - October 22, 2022
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02/14/22

Orlando,

Please see my response on the other thread.  Bottom line -- you're out of time until the last quarter of this year, at the earliest.

Think you might be in trouble here mate. You've overstayed and as far as I know, there is no way to get a new visa without leaving the country first, and once you leave, you'll be getting the R$10,000 fine and will need to stay out of the country until you can legally enter again (this might not be the case if you manage to get another visa, I'm not sure about that scenario).

03/11/22

I agree with English Penguin.

As I've stated elsewhere, except for Reunião Familiar,  the Polícia Federal will almost never let a visitor bootstrap a tourist visa into an Authorization for Residency, even without an overstay.  With an overstay, it's hard to imagine.   Your cleanest and most likely path to success is to pay your fine, go home, apply for the Digital Nomad visa at a Brazilian Consulate in the UK, and return legal.

If that's not acceptable to you, get a lawyer.   The only person I know of who managed anything like this took that route.  Print out a copy of the regulation to show the lawyer,  and be totally honest about your situation.   An ethical attorney should tell you whether you have a chance before taking any more of your money than the fee for the initial consult, probably one salário mínimo, about R$1200.  If they take the case, expect to pay ~R$5000+, in addition to your overstay fine, with, of course, no guarantee of success.

Finally, you could go to the Polícia Federal in person, tell them that you couldn't get into the computer system, and ask to apply there.  Again, have the regulation printed out: it will probably be news to some of them.  Probably as soon as they see your overstay they'll just give you 3-5 days to get out of Brazil and the conversation will end there.  But Brazil is Brazil, and you could get lucky.

Hi,

I've crossed border near Foz not so long ago.everything super relaxed. 99% of cars are passing by brazil migration booth without stopping, ins and outs, no control. Only few people stopped to make everything properly, me incl. Was crossing at night, officers were nice and didn't seem strict, was super fast. They just put stamps and you go.
In contrary, Argentinians check all the documents with a lot of attention even to smallest detail

Maybe you can go out until 15? Where are you? I have a car btw.

I caution you on believing PY is an answer, Most times no official stamps in passports and for 15 days is not the best place unless you stay in the capital. (not CDE)

Texanbrazil wrote:

I caution you on believing PY is an answer, Most times no official stamps in passports and for 15 days is not the best place unless you stay in the capital. (not CDE)

Nobody said CDE. I said Argentina and be sure Argentinians will stamp your passport like it should be!

I realize what you said. I was making a point on crossings in Foz. 
I do not believe I quoted your post!