Overstay Brazil visa - fine

02/15/23  @ka777ching.  Not knowing when you arrived or when you left it's impossible to say, but while international flights were disrupted by the covid pandemic, the Brazilian government granted several automatic extensions of several months each during which no fines were assessed on the assumption that people couldn't leave even if they wanted to.  It could be that you benefitted from one or more of those, after you used up your maximum of 180 days.

As for fines, if you estimate 1% per month, counting the month of your departure to the month of your next arrival, you should be ok.

Sounds like you got very lucky with the fine, mine was almost the full 10k when I overstayed, and I tried to argue it at the time as I was finalising marriage paperwork!

As for the interest, I got stuck with that as a nasty surprise also, without any prior warning. I tried to pay the fine the day I got it, was told to pay on my return. Tried to pay it then, was told I couldn't enter the country so no point paying until 6 months passed, by which point it went up by about 4k.

Hard to say if that will happen but has a chance. Also, going over land or air shouldn't make a difference if you are planning to enter the country legally. Would advise against trying to sneak in from neighbouring countries.

@English Penguin Thanks for the reply.

You say you got 10k fine and 4000 interest over 6 months...

Everyone says 1% interest per month but your interest would have been more like 6.5% no?

@abthree Hi, thanks for the reply.

Only 1% per month interest? But English Penguin got a 4k interest hike from a 10k fine over 6 months... that's around 6.5%... no?

@English Penguin Regarding going overland instead of airport...

Is there not a chance of being refused entry if you do not have enough cash for the fine+interest (and the banks are closed etc) or any chance at all for any reason that you cannot enter that day?

If I were to come from Foz Argentina, I could try the next day...

02/15/23 @abthree Hi, thanks for the reply.
Only 1% per month interest? But English Penguin got a 4k interest hike from a 10k fine over 6 months... that's around 6.5%... no?
-@ka777ching

~1%/mo. = ~6% in six months, or 12% a year. 

The Justice Ministry doesn't publish its interest rate, but 1% per month/12% per year is what the Finance Ministry charges for a lot of fines, and seems to be in the ballpark.

@English Penguin
If I were to come from Foz Argentina, I could try the next day...
-@ka777ching

I totally agree with English Penguin:  it's much cleaner to come through a well-organized port of entry at an airport.

If you really want to cross a land border, insist on going through Passport Control, even if they try to wave you through without processing your passport.  You have enough problems already with your overstay; you do NOT want to add an undocumented entry to your issues.

@abthree

Ok. Thanks for that advice.

The interest... On English Penguins 10k fine he got 4k interest over 6 months.. that's 6.5% PER MONTH... not 1%. Big difference if its true.

Can I please ask one more thing?

If I wanted to choose to overstay in Brazil for two years and just pay the 10k fine when returning after 6 months then just repeating this 2 year overstay/pay the 10k over and over for the foreseeable future, would Brazil be ok with that do you think?

They would just see it as income or they would start to get pissed off?

(Paying R$10K every 2 or 3 years to stay in Brazil would be a pretty good deal)

Thanks!

02/15/23 @abthree

If I wanted to choose to overstay in Brazil for two years and just pay the 10k fine when returning after 6 months then just repeating this 2 year overstay/pay the 10k over and over for the foreseeable future, would Brazil be ok with that do you think?

They would just see it as income or they would start to get pissed off?

(Paying R$10K every 2 or 3 years to stay in Brazil would be a pretty good deal)

Thanks!
-@ka777ching

Brazil doesn't charge overstay fines to make money, they do it to enforce immigration laws, and all indications are that they're getting stricter on enforcement. 

My guess with your scenario is that the first time, you wouldn't be readmitted after six months, you'd have to wait at least a year, because you get 180 days in every rolling 365, and the last six months of your two year overstay would still be on your record six months after you left.    If you tried it a second time, you'd probably be refused admittance, and end up on a "Do Not Admit" list.

I overstayed 422 days, I arrived in Sep 2020 - I left in June 2022. I intend to go back this April.. (10 months after I left).

So you think there is a chance they could refuse me?

(I don't understand what you wrote about getting 180 days in every 365)

@abthree

I overstayed 422 days, I arrived in Sep 2020 - I left in June 2022. I intend to go back this April.. (10 months after I left).

So you think there is a chance they could refuse me?

(I don't understand what you wrote about getting 180 days in every rolling 365)

02/15/23 @abthree

(I don't understand what you wrote about getting 180 days in every rolling 365)
-@ka777ching

You shouldn't be refused admission:  you've recovered some days, and you're ready to pay your fine.

Assuming from your profile that you're a UK citizen, you are allowed to spend up to 180 days out of every 365 in Brazil, on a rolling 12 month basis.  That means that each time you arrive in Brazil, the Immigration system will look back on the twelve months preceding that day, and total up the number of days during those twelve months that you've already spent in Brazil.  The number of days available on your new trip will be 180 minus that number of days.

So if, for example, you left Brazil on June 30, 2022, and return on April 1, 2023, the system will look back to April 1, 2022 when you arrive this time, and count the number of days since then that you were in Brazil.  In the example, that will be 91 days:  30 days in April, 31 days in May, and 30 days in June; the days you were in Brazil prior to April 2022 will have already dropped off your record.  So the number of days you'll have available will be 180 - 91 = 89.

Since you'll be paying your fine when you arrive, the Federal Police may give you credit for those 90 days to bring you back up to 180:  they have some leeway, and sometimes cut someone a break who's been good about paying their fine.  If any of those days were included in any of the covid extensions I mentioned previously, those days won't be counted against you, either.

@ka777ching

I wouldn't turn up to a land border without the means to pay the fine, and they very likely would tell you to pay this via a boleto. You will be refused entry if you have an unpaid fine and they see that. I'd 100% say go via an established airport to avoid issues paying the fine.

As for your idea to just overstay for 2 years and pay the fine at the end, this in my opinion is a terrible idea. You'll be living here with the constant risk of being caught as an illegal. You can't really enjoy the freedom of being legal, if you needed to register somewhere for something, they'll need to check you are legal etc. Not to mention the risk of you getting into some kind of situation where the police would need to check your ID, you'd be caught instantly. I also don't think they'd appreciate the constant re-offending and blatant disregard for their immigration laws. They're already some of the easiest I've encountered to make yourself legal here, so why take the piss really.

What is your intended reason to be here for 2 years and not bother sorting out your visa?

Also, if you are here for that long, and outside of the UK, you'll be a tax resident here. You are then on the hook to pay your due taxes in that case, which, if you are not legal, sounds like you'd be skirting that requirement which again can bite you in the bum pretty badly.

Regarding my fine, I am not sure of the exacts, they were almost deliberately vague about the whole thing. I just know that when I left it was R$9800 and when I eventually was allowed to pay, it had risen to basically R$14k. There are varying stories from people who have had no interest up to my case, so I don't think anyone can confirm what will happen in your situation. Just be sure to have a way to pay if you plan to enter again and if you don't want to be turned away, I'd suggest entering via an international airport like SP or RJ.

@abthree

wow. that is a new concept for me, thank you for introducing me to it....

From just hearing 'you can stay 180 days each year' it sounds like you can stay for 6 months and leave for 6 months then return for 6 months etc.. etc..

But it is not like that?

So if I stayed 180 days... Let's say [Jan 1st 2022 --- 29th June 2022] and then I stayed out for 186 days to round up the 365 + 1 day extra...

Then I tried to return on Jan 2nd 2023... The PF would look at the last 365 days and see that I had stayed in Brazil for 179 days of that period and I would only have 1 day in the country before I had to leave??

So in effect... If I spend 180 days in Brazil and then leave because I have to... to be able to enter again for 180 days I would have to wait 1 year?

Basically 6 months in - 12 months out - 6 months in - 12 months out?   (180 days in - 365 days out - 180 days in - 365 days out) ??

Thank you for taking the time to help me. I must understand this..

@English Penguin

Thanks Penguin.

The reason I would prefer to just overstay and pay (if it were not a problem) would only be to avoid all the bureaucracy.

It looks like I should just apply for the Nomad Visa... 

02/16/23 @English Penguin
Thanks Penguin.
The reason I would prefer to just overstay and pay (if it were not a problem) would only be to avoid all the bureaucracy.
It looks like I should just apply for the Nomad Visa...
-@ka777ching

Good idea.  Any residence visa carries more privileges than a tourist visa does, and a Digital Nomad visa is a pretty straightforward choice for anyone who qualifies.

02/16/23 @abthree

So in effect... If I spend 180 days in Brazil and then leave because I have to... to be able to enter again for 180 days I would have to wait 1 year?
Basically 6 months in - 12 months out - 6 months in - 12 months out?  (180 days in - 365 days out - 180 days in - 365 days out) ??
Thank you for taking the time to help me. I must understand this..
-@ka777ching

Sure thing:  this is one of the most common questions we get here, and helping visitors stay straight with the law is always a positive.

You're almost right, except that this is where the "rolling" part of  "rolling 365 days" comes in. 

Let's say that you're in Brazil from January 1, 2023 to June 30, 2023.  If you try to come back on January 1, 2024, your record is going to show that you have no days left.  But every month, the oldest month drops off your record.  So if you come back on February 1 instead, your record will show that you have 31 days available, because you get back the days you used in January 2023.  On March 1, you get back the February 2023 days, and so on.

People who need to spend a lot of time in Brazil regularly for professional reasons, as I used to, often find it most helpful to take large chunks of time, but usually not longer than 2-3 months, separated by equal or somewhat longer periods out of the country.  That way, they generally have a previous long visit rolling off their record, just in time to make room for a new long visit.

@abthree

@abthree - Hola- do you know if theres a way to find out exactly how much one will have to pay without actually being in Brasil- I was fined a while back and would like to find out how much exactly I have to pay

Thanks

02/17/23 @Denny Mendoza.  See response in your other thread on this topic. 👍

@English Penguin

Hi Penguin. Sorry to bother you again...

I can only get flights to brazil that land after 6pm.. in all airports..

Do you think I would be able to pay with the banks being closed?

Also, would Natal or Fortaleza airports be as good as SP or RJ for being able to be able to pay?

Thanks in advance

@abthree

Hi there,  Sorry to bother you too again...

I can only get flights to brazil that land after 6pm.. in all airports..

Do you think I would be able to pay with the banks being closed?

Also, would Natal or Fortaleza airports be as good as SP or RJ for being able to be able to pay?

Thanks in advance

02/17/23 @ka777ching.  No problem.   Arriving during the day is better, but arriving around 6 PM may be ok,  as long as it's a weekday and not a Brazilian holiday:  you'll need banks to be open.  As for airports,  what's your final destination?

@abthree

Hi.

Destination - Natal.

It doesn't seem like I can land anywhere in the daytime.

That is why I was previously considering going over a land border... If i got refused entry to brazil for any reason i could just try the next day...

I heard stories of people getting sent back on the plane because there was no way to pay the fine (banks closed etc).

i cant afford that happening.

@abthree  Hi.  Destination - Natal.
It doesn't seem like I can land anywhere in the daytime.
That is why I was previously considering going over a land border... If i got refused entry to brazil for any reason i could just try the next day...
I heard stories of people getting sent back on the plane because there was no way to pay the fine (banks closed etc).
i cant afford that happening.
-@ka777ching

Same as I said above.  Any airport that receives international flights should have bank access for paying fines; GRU (São Paulo), GIG (Rio) and BSB (Brasília) will probably have the best.  Avoid arriving on the weekend; a bank is more likely be open on weekday evenings when there are international flights arriving.

As always when arriving, be cheerful and courteous, and don't bring up your fine:  let the Immigration Officer do that.  If s/he does, ask him/her how much it is.  If the amount sounds about right, tell them that you're ready to pay, and ask how. 

They have a lot of discretion.  If the Officer never brings up the fine and just waves you through, treat the fine as waived:  "go in peace and sin no more!"  If they bring it up and you've said that you're ready to pay, if it's not possible for you to pay because there are no banks open, they may give you a place to sit until the banks open, or just waive it.  I doubt that they'd send you back under those circumstances, although they could.

@abthree

Thanks. You are making me panic less!

Fortaleza and Natal are International airports, you reckon these are as good as Rio, SP and Brasilia?

Good point about letting me wait.. if i arrived at 9pm I could wait until the morning?

Any way I could find out if Natal and Fortaleza have the necessary banks?

@ka777ching

Yeah you should be ok landing in the evening in the bigger international airports. They have 24 hour cash machines as well.

?

04/05/23. ?
-@expat5000

What's the question?

Thanks for your interest. Wasnt sure if anybody was here.

Quick question-Overstayed 9 months. leaving. Know about a possible fine. Can't afford to pay the fine upon leaving{not at airport yet}. Only can pay upon reentry, wayyy in the future. I see this is usually how it goes and people here usually dislike this but for me it's the best way. Is this verified and true?

04/05/23 Thanks for your interest. Wasnt sure if anybody was here.
Quick question-Overstayed 9 months. leaving. Know about a possible fine. Can't afford to pay the fine upon leaving{not at airport yet}. Only can pay upon reentry, wayyy in the future. I see this is usually how it goes and people here usually dislike this but for me it's the best way. Is this verified and true?
-@expat5000

We're always here. 😁

Is it true that the Polícia Federal will let you defer paying your fine until you return? Yes.

You've already hit the max fine at $R10,000, so that's what they'll probably assess. It will accrue interest, probably at the rate of about 12% annually until your return, so make sure you're able to pay the fine plus interest if you DO return.

And if you don't return? 🤷‍♂️ They won't come after you for it.

@abthree Thank you so much. I thought this was the case but just wanted to make sure.

Yeah...wayyy in the future lol  I'll add it up month by month, year by year lol Eventually I'll be back.

@Kurterino I have no clue how to appeal - do you have the information ? The email address? Thanks

I did appeal an overstay fine,w a lawyer,they defered it to another court,I said fk it,went on w my life.Btw,I recently crossed at FOZ,bus was filled w people whom probably criss cross all the time,open border,I was the only 1 who got off,to make it official,what would happen to someone,who came in at an border,with no vigilance,and got caught somehow,no idea.

@ka777ching YES, YES, YES. Whatever @abthree advises on this take it and run. I went to Miami to get my fingerprinting for my  FBI background check and was two days away from my deadline and except for divine intervention, my very persuasive Brazilian wife (on the phone from Brazil) and probably a high ranking official I was almost two hours of negotiations away from living on the streets in Miami.

Do not take this lightly unless you have a US residence you can go back to when it happens. Take it from someone who was actually stopped in Sao Paulo

Roddie in Retirement

@abthree Hi, Before I leave I have one more question. Upfront, My case is complicated, quick re-cap. OVERSTAYED by 9 months. Will have a big fine that I will pay upon return.  My issue is this, I can't return to the USA(just yet) when I do eventually leave, so I'm going to another country for a short while until I can return to the USA. My question is this, upon leaving Brazil(soon) does Brazil care where I go?  Meaning, do they insist or require I go back to my country of citizenship when I depart? Why does it matter if they do care? 

I know this question might be a moot point but just trying to anticipate any unforeseen issues.

Thanks in advance

05/15/23 @expat5000.  No, Brazil doesn't care, and won't try to hold you.  Boa viagem!

@abthree I wanted to give a follow up{to maybe ease/help others minds} and as well ask a question that you may know.

I recently left brazil. Upon arrival at the immigration in the airport  on my departure day I was kinda nervous as I have this " you never know" mindset even though there is plenty of information to the contrary.  As I was called over to this particular immigration official she asked for my passport. My passport was NEW as I renewed it while in Brazil. As I have discussed previously, I overstayed 10 months or so. She said "why do you have this passport with no entries"? She was somewhat perplexed. I said I renewed here. She asked for my old passport and thank God, I was smart enough to have kept it and gave it to her. She looked at it and said, "you know you have overstayed by quite a bit". I said "yeah I did". She said "Why? with an odd look on her face. I said "relationship issues". She said ok, i'll be right back. She was gone for 20 min. I was somewhat concerned. When she came back she handed me my passports and said " ok you can go" . I said "I'm good to go, no fee/fine or anything'?. She said well No, the system isn't working tonight, so all is good. I thought damn I'm lucky. Then I asked if I come back am I allowed back in etc? She then says, well you might not be allowed back in or you might be accepted back in with no issues. I was excited I was let go with no fee given but at the same time I was left in limbo if I ever wanted to come back to Brazil.  Which is it Brazil? LOL

So my question is, Do you think I'll be ok coming back to Brazil with no issues(6 months ban or Fine} and if so, how is the best way to find out if I am indeed penalized for the overstay and what will be the fine?

One last important detail I left out is that she said they count my days allowed in Brazil from the first time I ever came to Brazil which was Oct 2020. Stayed 2 weeks then, then I came back August 2021 for 2 months, then came back recently in feb 2022 and legally extended my visa until August 2022. She said they use these dates as they dont use a calendar year for the computation of the overstay time. Maybe based on their computation I didn't overstay? Hard to believe this honestly.My case is quite odd and very confusing to say the least, so any help would be appreciated as one day I'd like to go back without a huge fine and surprises. Thanks in advance.

06/04/23 @expat5000.  That's quite a story -- glad that it worked out well for you!  My read of the situation is that you got lucky in dealing with a sympathetic Immigration Officer (and her boss), and really lucky that the system was down. 

I don't think that you have to worry very much about a fine.  If you're asked about it on your return, then you should be pleasant and polite and say that you asked the officer on departure whether you had a fine, and you were told that you didn't.  Do your best not to identify the officer -- there's no point making trouble for her -- but the fact that an officer DID tell you that you had no fine should keep one from being charged to you later. 

As for your next return, it sounds like you were in Brazil continuously from February 2022 through the end of May 2023, or 16 months.  Four of those months, and any time on your previous visits that was still being counted against you, dropped off your record as soon as you were allowed to leave Brazil without a fine.  You're allowed 180 days in every 365.  You stayed 365 out of 365, so you have to stay out of Brazil for at least 180 days plus another 30 just to begin earning time back again.

Assuming that you left on May 31, I would estimate that the earliest you can return at all would be January 2024,  when you would have 31 days available to your because your days for December 2022 (and all months prior to that) will have dropped off your record.  Come back in February 2024 instead and two months drop off your record and give you 62 days, and so on.  Stay out of Brazil for a year after your latest departure and you can stay here another six months.

@abthree Drop off your record ? Never heard of that one !