Expat interfaith marriage in Malaysia

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Harryy wrote:

Hello, i am a muslim and my fiance is catholic. Neither of us wants to convert. We both live and work in Malaysia. As i understand, malaysia does not allow interfaith marriage so can anyone recommend the best course of action or another nearby country that would  allow interfaith marriage registration?

Harry, the answer you got is......well not so fast, Singapore and others may do a wedding but that itself is not valid in Malaysia. The govt would call it an elopement and you have 6 months to register the marriage here. But you cant simply register, you have to go to court and prove the wedding was lawful according to Islam. Many people do phony foreign weddings so it will take time in court -- about 9 months --- and then you will pay fines for elopement, pay your lawyer and are then allowed to be tested for diseases and to register the marriage. But since you already know that Malaysia wont recognize interfaith marriages, you wont even be able to withstand court and the matter will close unless she converts first. That immediately raises another red flag to the court, that she converted only to marry and not because she was sincere on islam and the marriage will be disapproved.

Having said that, if you can indeed do this in Singapore, then Singapore is where its valid and where you should stay, unless any other country like Thailand or other country also doesnt care. I'll say again that you have 6 months to make decisions about starting the court proceedings OR, though you will still be married as to Singapore, you will be treated as two single people in Malaysia with you violating islamic rules by living with an unmarried woman and thats another kettle of fish. Regardless of how you personally view this as a Muslim or how you individually practice Islam, Malaysia only sees it one way -- you are muslim, you know the rules, she has to convert.

And having said that, there is one final way and I will only say it in an academic way, not as a recommendation. A phony conversion in a Singapore or Thailand mosque. To convert in Malaysia, it takes up to a year of classes and a committee to approve that she is really on Islam. But a foreign mosque can easily convert, give her a paper and you then marry and bring all docs and proof back to Malaysia and start court proceedings for the elopement. If all goes well you will come out the other end ready to register. Its time consuming, costly and very tiring but you succeeded. After that, she dumps the conversion certificate and carries on her life. I very much dislike people abusing religious faith this way and Im not recommending it. In the end, you two have to live with whatever consequences of conscience there are and face God one day but thats how things work as an academic solution model.

There is also a problem. If you are Malaysian the court will want to know why the father (wali) didnt give approval for the wedding. If you are not Malaysian and therefore no wali present here, why didnt you go to a local mosque, discuss it, get a substitute wali, convert her and marry? Why did you go to Singapore? How will you answer that and convince the court you did the right thing under Islam? The court will run you ragged with questions and can easily disapprove of the marriage and you are back to the start.

Also, lets not forget that the catholic church also insists on your conversion and that you marry in a catholic ceremony. Also, lets not forget you may not be able to accomplish all this during covid. Im not even sure the shariah court is taking cases like that now.

In the end, what to do? My actual advice is not to marry, at least during covid, and to consider living outside of Malaysia should you do marry. Sorry to raise so many negatives but islam and catholicism are taken seriously here and involve more than a few problems that cant be ignored.

Im sure I havent covered everything but at least its an outline. If you want to talk further you can PM me for my phone and we can talk.

Harry,

Im sure that when a person sits down to think there are even more ideas. Here is one I forgot and again, its academic discussion, not a recommendation. Simply go marry as non-denominational. Because im american, we think in simple terms and people just simply go marry regardless of their faiths. Some in churches, some in front of a judge, and some in drive-through weddings in Las Vegas where you dont even have to get out of your car. I think its no different here, you walk into a church or somewhere, no described faith, marry, take the cert and register it and its all done.

What problems that may pose later, i dont know. Its conceivable that two people married and then later one joined Islam and one joined Catholics, right? In Malaysia, I believe the courts have upheld a persons right to do that and there have been such cases. Nobody can say you two are not married just because religion happened to come along later in your lives. Would, for example, sharia law dictate re-marriage under Islam? I doubt anything like that could be forced. Obviously, Im referring to people who were not born into a faith as Islam, for one, does. I was born without any religion, its not unusual.

Last thought, if you are a foreigner then marrying abroad creates its own problems since your home country may not recognize a foreign marriage. If you are american, the US, for example, high-pressures the two marry in US so that US laws apply and that the marriage certs are in English. There is also divorce to think about. If marrying in Malaysia and one or both of you leave the country, how to undo this should divorce be necessary later?

Im not saying what anyone should do or not do. Its just a thought.

Philippines, China, Thailand, Vietnam…etc. all allow

Hi any such marriage would be unrecognized in Malaysia, if you are both non Malaysians wait until you can travel home amd get married. Getting married as a tourist in a pandemic is going to be too hard.

I would counsel you to consider if her Catholic faith is so strong, you will get family arguments over this. Inter faith marriages are super hard between Catholics and Muslims. You face some real issues rhere

Nemodot wrote:

Hi any such marriage would be unrecognized in Malaysia, if you are both non Malaysians wait until you can travel home amd get married. Getting married as a tourist in a pandemic is going to be too hard.

I would counsel you to consider if her Catholic faith is so strong, you will get family arguments over this. Inter faith marriages are super hard between Catholics and Muslims. You face some real issues rhere

Its bad enough when its only one who is strongly on a faith. With both, its fire; with families, its 20 fires. What I see in Malaysia, maybe its everywhere in humanity, opposites attract not for contrast but to pursuade the other to change. Its a challenge. I guess if you are 20 years old and have the energy, hey go for it, but mostly i'd counsel people very strong on their religion to stop doing that and find someone of their own kind. I have a Muslim friend here who is on a personal quest to change a Christian so he can have a second wife. But in his telling of the story its clearly not love, its the challenge, the chase, the quest for his idea of Islam to prevail. Im repelled by that and hope people will just leave each other alone and let them find their own way but some people are not satisfied with that. I also dont believe that love conquers everything. Love gets you just so far and then you hit a wall when the real internals of a person are seen. In the end, for those strongly on their faith, or strongly on no faith at all, thats whats going to prevail. Love withers and fights increase until they wind up where they started -- apart. But hey, dont mind me, people can try anything they like and good luck to them.

@cvco great advice