Its a little small........

Sorry Lucyanya, but I couldn't agree with you less - and in fact to underline the point we are leaving Malta in August after 18 months living here. The first 9 months or so were new and exciting and the issues that we ran into we took in our stride or at the very most commented "Only In Malta", and of course there were some things we loved (and still do). But gradually as time progressed the issues irked us more and more and we realized Malta will never change (or at least not as quickly as we would like) and we would never feel comfortable here so we decided to move on. We know several other expat families that have left recently or are leaving soon too. So, "the majority"? I don't know about that, it seems a bit subjective to me - it all comes down to your experiences here and your personality.

Of course, I'm not advocating all expats should leave, and I'm happy for you that you are happy here (and I know there are plenty of others happy here also), but I think we can agree that you only really know if a place is a good fit for you having lived there for a while.

I have been an expat for 18 of the last 20 years so it's not like Malta is my first taste of being an expat. But I have never felt more of an outsider than here (despite having made some good lifelong friends here).

Anyway - just my opinion, and of course we have to do what we see as best for us as you do for you and your family. I hope you are just as happy here in a year or two as you are now.

Tim

hammersfan wrote:

But I have never felt more of an outsider than here

This is quite a statement Tim. I honestly have never felt so at home as what i am here.

I understand that things are different for every individual, and things that annoy some others may shrug off....

What has made you feel like this,are there individual points or is it an overall way of how Malta is...??

hammersfan wrote:

But gradually as time progressed the issues irked us more and more and we realized Malta will never change

Sureley you came to Malta for what Malta is and not to change it ??? I dont want Malta to change ... i think if it did it would be a shame...The quirks and ways of the Maltese and the Islands is what brought me here and i hope to spend a very long time enjoying it.

It will be a sad day for Malta and the forum when you go Tim, and i really do hope you find the Paradise you are looking for

All the Best

Julian

Hi guy's, it's not Malta it's being an X-Pat, I lived in Spain nearly 5 years and it's exactly the same, it's not really about the country, it's about us. First year is so busy with finding learning meeting it goes quick, second year is getting comfortable and family/friends visiting so you become a tour guide. 3 year is hard work and you start to miss UK and how do I get back there, 4th year I don't care How do I get back, thats how it was with me in Spain. I have already fely what Tim is saying getting anything done is primative and its quirky, I like that but it will frustrate me in time. The harder you push the slower they go. The Maltese go on about Car Tax and importation etc but their roads are death raceways. I have never seen an educated country put up with it, when you tell them the say "not as bad as Sicily". I am sure the accidents and deaths records must be doctored up to hide the true figures. Like Scubaboy I am enjoying Malta but my eyes are open early to it might not be the paradise promised, Costa-Rica looks good Tim, I have some very good contacts there ? If anyone is thinking of going back I have a big van outside on UK plates. Jim.

Hi Julian,

Unlike many that come here we ended up here almost by accident, so it was not a place we consciously wanted to come to because of what it was like...a job opportunity opened up and at the time it seemed like a good opportunity (both professionally and as an experience for the family). I had visited Malta on holiday in my youth but my wife and kids had never even heard of it when I first told them of the opportunity.

It was a huge deal to move my kids from their very comfortable life in the US surrounded by their family, friends and familiar things to Malta, so it was not something we did lightly, nor is the decision to move away again due to the upheaval for them. When we arrived here we had an open mind and our hope at the time was that it would turn out to be a great move and we would stay here permanently.

Our frustrations over time include: education for our kids; standard of driving (we do a lot of driving, much more than most, so we have to deal with it a lot); being ripped-off by some Maltese; being verbally abused by some Maltese; at work I have had to deal with co-workers rudeness and arrogance and exclusion (too many social and work-related conversations that I could and should be a part being conducted in Malti); lots of shopping frustrations (cost, availability, lack of convenience); etc.

I am not so naive to suppose that the UK or the USA for that matter is paradise where nothing bad ever happens to you, but on a day-by-day basis Malta just simply became too difficult, and energy sapping to deal with, coupled with our concern about education and opportunities for our kids.

But the tipping point for us was when my wife was involved in (another) car accident in April - she was rear-ended (again). It wasn't so much the accident (for which she was found not at fault by the insurance company) but that subsequently she was prosecuted in criminal court (not civil) and moreover she was found guilty - the punishment was a €25 fine. We could have appealed but just to file the paperwork is €250.

However, what irked us is not the fine, but the fact that we have absolutely no doubt in our mind that in the UK or the USA there is no chance that prosecution would have happened, let alone that she would have been found guilty. Whether or not it is because she is foreign we will never know (the part that hit her on their Quad bike was Maltese), but the seed is there that that was the reason...and it was when we realized we felt that way we knew that in the future if anything went against us we would always be wondering if it is because we are foreign.

Of course, it's not all bleak - it's for the most part beautiful, has great history, lots of events and we have made some great friends here (some are Maltese most are other expats) and I guarantee we will be back for visits, and maybe we would even retire here when we don't have to worry about what kind of education and opportunities the kids are going to get, and we can live somewhere like Sliema or Mellieha and not have to deal with commuting through rush hour on terrible roads with reckless drivers etc.

We won't regret our time here other than it didn't work out, and some specific instances.

Again, I am pleased for those that think this is a great place - it just isn't our experience and I would defy anyone that's had to deal with some of the things we've had to deal with not to feel somewhat the same.

Also, I never left the UK to get away from it, so I don't have that England-is-miserable-and-it's going-to-the dogs mentality that a lot of expats have, so to me I'm just going home, but to a place that has more opportunity for my kids and where we will feel like we belong (hopefully - but we always do when we visit).

Julian, surely you would want the driving to improve if nothing else?

Tim

Tim I know we have had our differences but i know exactly what you mean (no kids here though) but i do understand - we sometimes still feel the "foreigner" is an infidel mentality even though we have been here three years now - however we do feel comfortable and certainly feel at home in this village..,,and i sure as hell understand the feelings that the motoring incidents have left you with. Well all i can say is good luck to you and yours and hope that you find what you need and are looking for - good luck.

I must and do freely express my frustration at the malti attitudes we have come across in our time here and have a gut feeling that these may get the better of me over time...but i sure do hope this doesnt happen...as not all malti have these attitudes..so my mission and i choose to accept it is to seek out new malti, explore and understand them.....after all it is a new world should we choose to accept it and embrace it if we can....

Tim,

I understand what you are saying and .... Yes the driving is appauling, and please please please let it improve... as you can possibly remember... I was only here 2 weeks and i had an accident because the driver in front decided to stop and answer his phone....

I do wish you luck and hopefully you will take the good memories from Malta...

Good Luck and don't forget the Moving away Party

Luckily its just me and my wife.... so we dont have the hassle of schools etc.

Julian

Cheers everyone! In my 18 months and nearly 500 posts on this forum I like to think overall I've been helpful and friendly, but I'm human and sometimes said the wrong thing at the wrong time or been misunderstood...or misunderstood others. Let's hope we all find what we're looking for, wherever and whatever that may be (so long as it doesn't harm others).

I've still got a couple more weeks left, so I might hit 500 posts yet!

lucyanya - I didn't mean to take over this thread, but I was asked specific questions and felt I should respond...hope you don't mind.

Tim

yes sorry Lucyanya.....

And Malta will always be small.... 20minutes from anywhere lol...

Julian.... PS I still have your Fish ID Slate

We will all miss you and hope that you do look in now and again in the future ex Malta. You have been a major contributor and driving force with your expertise on schooling,family,it and many,many other topics.Thanks.

I understand exactly how you feel about Malta although I do find Jim's theory of it being an Expat and not just Malta causing problems. But Malta certainly doesn't make it easier for Expats.

And I must confess that we too have been and still are considering other countries. So far the main argument to stay has been the weather compared to all the other cold and rainy options.

But we have it a bit easier as our family here is just one long -haired feline and so we don't have to consider the kids situation.

So, don't forget to schedule the party so we can wish you farewell.

Cheers
Ricky

Tim,  no problem,  the thread was just an open thought and I am glad it opened discussion, thats what a forum is for.  I'm sad that it hasn't worked out for you and wish you every luck for the future.  Maybe you guys could pop back for a visit sometime at one of the meets.


Jules,
Did I give you my email addy, PM me if not and I'll send it to you.  Thanks loads for getting the fish card.





I've also started watching re runs of wacky races in an attempt to bring my driving up to scratch, if it doesn't work I'm gonna watch Death Race 2000 on repeat....  fingers crossed.


I think one of the most eye opening experiences I have had as an expat, in various places, is to be on the wrong end of prejudice for a change.  In our home country we mostly aren't aware of it but its not until you place yourself somewhere else you get to see it from the other side.  It certainly makes you think and also encourages more respect to other cultures.  I am fortunate in that I have never really considered myself prejudice or 'racist' in my outlook, and perhaps that is why I found it so hard to deal with but really, its just looking at things from the other end of the stick.  Usually, we are on the other end so don't see it.  This is just my opinion tho.xx

Sorry to hear you are leaving Tim and I also hope you find the perfect place and are happy wherever you end up!

In regards to the original topic, I agree with you Lucyanya! I came here knowing it'd be small and may take some adjusting and at first it did seem tiny but the longer I'm here I realise that I've not even seen half of what the island has to offer. I think people who move here and do and see everything within the first few months or a year are setting themselves up to get bored.

Take your time seeing the island. I've been here over a year now (so still a relative newbie!) but we've been careful not to cram everything in to the first year. We've still got a good few years of exploring left on Malta!

I do understand peoples frustrations and I think a lot depends on your situation- your age, where you lived before and whether you have kids or not. My partner are and I are  22 and 23 respectively, no kids and no real worries. So when the water doesn't get fixed for 3 days, its a slight annoyance but no big deal for us, we can just shower at a friends. Or the bank 'loses' our wages (went missing for 3 days this month!) although its super annoying, we can borrow 20 euro off friends to eat and it's no big deal. We haven't got kids to worry about/provide for or anything like that.

We're lucky in that a lot of the time we can just laugh at things which may otherwise be totally infuriating and in England probably would have made my head explode but we've managed to mellow out here and just take everything in our stride. Although I think it helps that we don't necessarily see Malta as somewhere we'll be forever. We're young enough right now to up and leave for another part of the world the moment we get bored or are unhappy. Knowing that helps because you never feel stuck in a rut or trapped.

Malta can certainly take some getting used to and is a bit of a 'love it or hate it' kinda place!

Lucy.... can't remember but will check if not i will pm or give you a Dropbox link.

Malta imho was always known as a Marmite Country... Love it or Hate it... (marmite is again imho bloody awful... Malta is the opposite)

I have hated the way people that have visited Malta have ".. Seen it all in our day trip out from the hotel and its a bit rubbish.."

I have been visiting Malta since 1979 and STILL haven't seen anything in over 90 visits.. ok so i do spen a lot of time underwater

I think its all about how you perceive the country and the people and slot in with there way of life not try to implement your way on them...

i sort of agree with scuba...it can be a great place to live if you accept the way the country and its people are, and embrace it all - however its sometimes difficult and very very frustrating at times.

we came here on holiday four years ago and "hated it" honest!

but we thought we ought to give it another chance as we had decided to move to anther country to live when we had the
opportunity to retire early. 1st choice was Turkey (we even had a apartment sorted out and lost it by an hour so it was not meant to be - turkey dropped out of the running with not being EU and at the time sharia law was mooted very strongly by the interior...2nd choice was Rhodes (just too expensive to live and am so glad now what with the greek problems)  3rd choice Malta - thought we ought to give it another go and glad we did...found a great village to live in and a property and landlord to die for. so as they say Malta isnt for everyone and its defo true about "you either love it or hate it - no middle ground"

I agree you need to fit in but it's difficult to embrace someone who is trying to run you off the road, or run you kids over, and like Tim say's and proves you are always going to be in the wrong so getting out and giving them a thumping is not an option.
I prefer Marmite as a beefy drink so maybe now I have started doing a little work and a few meetings here I might mellow to it, before I start running them of the road with my big bashed ugly van. Jim

I'm not quite in the "love it or hate it camp" as for us it's been very situation specific. I really think had our circumstances here been different (younger, no kids, or retired) we would have enjoyed it a lot more...so I honestly think we are in the middle ground...that's why the decision to leave was so tough - if we totally hated it, there would have been no decision to make. People who visit on their hols just for a week maybe make those kind of snap judgements (we're probably all a little guilty of that from time to time).

One of my waggish friends back in the UK when I told him I was living in Malta said that he was here on his honeymoon a few years ago and it looked like "it would be nice when they finish it". I did chuckle at that.

Tim

jim IPTV wrote:

I agree you need to fit in but it's difficult to embrace someone who is trying to run you off the road, or run you kids over, and like Tim say's and proves you are always going to be in the wrong so getting out and giving them a thumping is not an option.
I prefer Marmite as a beefy drink so maybe now I have started doing a little work and a few meetings here I might mellow to it, before I start running them of the road with my big bashed ugly van. Jim

Now I'm tempted to stay in Malta just to see which way you go Jim!


Tim

"it would be nice when they finish it"

made the chuckle muscle quiver a little but oh so true...lol but we still love it warts and all...which actually is quite a surprise as its ever so frustrating at times - fortunately for us most of our experiences have been good ones and those that havent been although frustrating and sometimes making you angry you do get over it.


a quick question - someone once said if it aint broke dont fix it ......is malta broken? and does it need fixing?...LOL

I had to chuckle also, on my husbands first visit to Malta he said exactly 'It will look great when they finish it'. 

I have to agree with Scubaboy too. "
I think its all about how you perceive the country and the people and slot in with there way of life not try to implement your way on them..."
One of the main things I noticed about the expats in Spain was the attitude they had towards that differences.  Maybe its the old colonial thing coming out in us but there was definitely the 'when its a bit more like home it will be ok'.  The problem is I think that Brits in particular do not seem to integrate well and expect the country to change for them and not the other way around.  Sadly, many places do change to accomodate them... see the Costas, more places selling English breakfast and doing karaoke then selling tapas and flamenco.   

Not everybody has this attitude before I get jumped on but we have to accept that things are done differently.  Not necessarily in a good way but perhaps by integration and involvement together we can all improve things. 

Have to agree about attitude towards your new country - when we arrived in the UK 10 years ago we were very cheerful, happy go lucky South Africans that thought the rest of the people in the world were the same - we were like happy puppies. We thought that job applications, administrative issues etc etc would be sorted quickly and easily as they were in SA - after all we were now living in the 'first world', we were nice people and all will be resolved promptly.
Not a chance - masses of red tape, weeks of waiting for replies to simple applications, stiff English attitudes, 'Health & Safety issues' (we came to detest that phrase!)all resulted in extreme frustration for us. After about 3 years the penny dropped , we were in their world now, so we had to wind ourselves in, and pretty much put up and shut up when we were dying to express our outrage at the way things are done. We have got used to it even though we don't like it, and are sure that when we settle in Malta next year we will go through all the frustrations that you guys have experienced. But ..... we will once again be in their country, so 'when in Rome do as the Romans do' or leave

We're sorry to hear that you and your family are leaving Malta Tim.  And...we do understand your reasons. 

As expats having lived, now in five different countries, there are so many things to consider from an indvidual point of view and circumstances.

For us size is not an issue, as its only a 'short' trip to Europe, a little different from two or three days trip!  And we, as newbies (9 months), love all the culture and history and find or see something new everyday.  But we are retired! 

Bad roads, driving, waiting for things to be done, government frustations, are all relative to what you've experienced previously.  Coming from a Central Amercian country, things are not so bad here.  And...you can communicate with most people in English, which is bonus when dealing with all those frustrations!
And it's safe.  No living behind bars and being afraid to go out on ones own. 

To bore all with an accident experience in the last country.
A taxi driver (in a little car) drove head on (almost) in to my 'Big' Toyota Hilux Truck.  If this had not been dealt with by our own Attorny, it could have ended up with, in the Attorny's words, our truck, house, bank accounts and all empounded/gone, jail time and who knows what else!

I think its all about pros and cons for each individual and their family.  No where is Paradise!  Take and enjoy the best and deal with the worst.

We shall miss you all and your posts with the excellent information.