Residency/reuniao familiar processing times
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Hi there
I’m an American citizen and my Brazilian SO and I are thinking about/working on my move here. I have only found pretty old info which seemed to suggest that applying for the family reunion visa and subsequently residency could take years. I’m in SP on a tourist visa and plan to go back to the US sometime this Brazilian winter. I’d prefer to do things here but could apply through the consulate there if it’s much faster (consulate indicated 1-2 months). I speak Portuguese and work remotely. Were looking to move to the interior of Bahia later this year. Any ideas how long it takes in São Paulo? Suggestions? Not sure if anything changed with covid…
Thanks!
Nico
I had mine processed by the consulate in my home country. Took a few weeks. Came to Brazil and got my PR on family reunion. That took a whopping 1 visit and 1 month wait to get my PR card
02/10/22
Welcome, Nico,
My timeline was similar to Mike's, but that was pre-covid. The pandemic has messed up everybody's schedule, and now it's very hard to tell. The most commonly reported problem in São Paulo seems to be getting an appointment through the online system.
The long pole in the tent for US citizens and residents historically has been the FBI Background Check. You need it, and you need it shortly before coming to Brazil, because the Polícia Federal want it to be no older than three months.
If you and your SO have been living in the US for some time, getting the visa at the Consulate may be helpful, since you'll need the same documents for them that you will for the Polícia Federal, so you'll already have them when you get here. It will also give you more time to get the process done when you get to Brazil than a tourist visa does. If your relationship is a domestic partnership or anything other than a legal marriage, the recognition by the Consulate may also help with the PF.
You'll still need apostilles and Sworn Translations for your documents for use in Brazil.
Nico mine was the same as abthree and Mike's. (Many years ago)
The exception I had was the PF in Foz was nice enough to take my prints and I sent it to FBI WV, processing via sedex. The FBI received it in 3 days and returned it to my US mailing (us global mail) address. They then shipped it to me by FedEx, Whole process was 7 business days.
Now, this is not the norm. I live in Foz and got to know the agents well in our PF office.
Dang I had not realized the situation with the background check before leaving. I read that a few agencies will accept the fingerprints if you can do them here but I’m not finding any info about that. I was think I’d try the PF here in São Paulo because otherwise I’ll have to go back to the US a couple times maybe or completely change my schedule which could be complicated for various reasons. Abthree and Texanbrazil you both applied at consulates in the US then I’m assuming? My biggest question is a rough timeline here but the whole multimonth process with the fbi is a wrench in the spokes potentially. Thanks all!
rnbg,
No, I applied at the PF office here. I too had the last issue of the FBI report. PF office here helped me by taking fingerprints on the FBI form. I overnight to the WV processing office and all came back in about 8 working days.
How is your Portuguese? Civil Policia may help. Also, there are FBI Channelers that can help you.
02/11/22
Rnbtg,
A FBI Approved Channeler (Accurate Biometrics, in my case) turned the FBI Background Check around for me in 24 hours, twice, hard copy and electronic version. For my naturalization, I emailed the electronic copy to an apostille service, and got an apostilled hard copy back in a couple of days. It probably cost a couple of hundred dollars, but the turnaround was fast.
Yes, I applied for a permanent visa at the Consulate
under the old law - about two weeks before the current law went into effect in November 2017. At that time, the Consulate had the final say, and the Federal Police accepted whatever documents the Consulate had already approved; I didn't have to provide apostilles or Sworn Translations.
Under the current law the Federal Police have the final say, and while the Consulate's blessing still helps, the Federal Police want to see the apostilles and the Sworn Translations. When I applied for naturalization in 2019, they wanted it all.
rnbtg wrote:Dang I had not realized the situation with the background check before leaving. I read that a few agencies will accept the fingerprints if you can do them here but I’m not finding any info about that. I was think I’d try the PF here in São Paulo because otherwise I’ll have to go back to the US a couple times maybe or completely change my schedule which could be complicated for various reasons. Abthree and Texanbrazil you both applied at consulates in the US then I’m assuming? My biggest question is a rough timeline here but the whole multimonth process with the fbi is a wrench in the spokes potentially. Thanks all!
__
I had my FBI background check done 14-months ago in the USA and they now use fingerprinting done at a number of specified USPS branches. The background check is done online, took about 5 minutes to fill out the info, another 2 minutes to pay for it. I made an appointment with the USPS for the fingerprinting, and once the guy clicked enter, the background check was in my email in literally seconds, before I walked out of their door I had it. I had their hard copy in about one week, but the Consulate in San Francisco did not want the original, a printed copy of my email was fine.
I’m basically fluent in Portuguese. I found a Channeler that will allow me to complete the application here if I can convince the PF to do the prints and mail them. I’m thinking I’ll probably just go to the PF and ask about the time range for the application because that’s the one thing I can’t seem to find.
02/12/22
rnbtg wrote:I’m thinking I’ll probably just go to the PF and ask about the time range for the application because that’s the one thing I can’t seem to find.
Are you here on a tourist visa or a VITEM XI family reunion visa? On a tourist visa, you have the usual 90 days, plus a possible 90 day extension (which you have to request before your visa expires) to get your application in and accepted; on a VITEM XI, you have up to a year.
It still takes one to two months for your CRNM to get back from Brasília once you complete the process; that never seems to change. Still, checking with the Federal Police for more recent info is a good idea.
I am here on a tourist visa. Let me make sure I’m understanding right. Is it that on a tourist visa you apply for residency directly or first do reunião familiar and the residency? And then when residency is approved it’s 1-2 months to get the approval or documents from Brasilia? So it would be whatever time for the fbi screen, plus residency plus the final things from Brasília? I’ll let everyone know what the PF says and my experience too. Thanks!
rnbtg,
You will need to be married and registered with the cartorio. Then both of you go to the PF and apply for the family reunion visa with all the documents required (translated and apostilled).
PF will give you a protocol # (save this paper). You can do this now. If you need the FBI background check, the protocol extends your days in Brazil for "X" amount of time to gather any information to complete the process.
Once you have all documents approved the information is sent to Brasilia for review and approval. Your CRNM will be sent to the PF office you applied. The protocol allows you to stay until your CRNM is received.
02/13/22
rnbtg,
Texanbrazil has laid out for you how your case should work, since you're on a tourist visa. I'll frame it up.
A foreigner with grounds for requesting permanent residency based on a family relationship with a qualifying Brazilian or legal permanent resident (like a spouse), has either of two routes to obtain it, and follows one or the other:
1. VITEM XI visa from a Consulate which can only be obtained abroad, and serves as a kind of pre-clearance for the Federal Police; the VITEM XI holder still has to go to the Federal Police after arriving in Brazil. Since the applicant's documents have already been vetted by the Foreign Ministry, these candidates are less likely to have difficulties with the Federal Police. They have up to one year of residency to complete the CRNM process.
2. Applying directly to the Federal Police while in Brazil, usually on a tourist visa, although people on other kinds of temporary visas can do this, too. These people need to complete the process within the time limit of their visas, or any extensions granted by the Federal Police. Once their application has been accepted and they receive their Protocolo, the visa clock stops and they're free to stay in Brazil until the date that will appear on their CRNM, which will be renewable.
Either way, these documents and information are required:
-- Application, now completed online
-- Passport
-- Legal document showing parents' names, usually a birth certificate
-- Legal document proving relationship to the Brazilian party, called the "Chamante"
-- Criminal background check from every country where applicant has lived during the preceding five years. For anyone who's lived in the USA, that will include the FBI Background Check
-- Two recent photos, 3x4 cm
-- Contact information, including email address
-- Any other document that the Federal Police request.
Passports (should) never require apostilles or Sworn Translations. All other documents presented to the Federal Police do require apostilles, and Sworn Translations if not in Portuguese.
You're already following the second route, so there's no point in going back and starting again on the first. If your documents have apostilles and Sworn Translations and your Background Check is 90 days old or less, you should be good to go.
With respect to the Marriage Certificate, if you happen to have a Brazilian one from a cartório, as Texanbrazil says, that's golden. A Certidão Consular, showing that the marriage has been registered at a Brazilian Consulate, should be almost as good. A US certificate with an apostille and a Sworn Translation may be accepted, at the PF's discretion.
As Texanbrazil says, the Brazilian spouse should definitely attend the meetings with the Federal Police, especially the first one. Not only does that person probably have a better understanding of how Brazilian bureaucracy works, but the candidate's application is based on the Chamante's constitutional right to have their spouse living with them in Brazil. The presence of the Chamante may prevent additional documents from being requested, and help ensure that some, like a foreign marriage certificate, are accepted without complications.
Once the application is accepted, the CRNM will probably return from Brasília in one to two months to the Federal Police station where the application was made, and has to be picked up in person by the applicant, or by someone with his/her Procuração, Power of Attorney.
Excellent now I feel very clear on the process. One last question any suggestions for sworn translation here in SP? I’m seeing a bunch of ads on google but feel a little nervous sending things like birth certificate and the like that way. Idea of the cost?
02/15/22
Sworn Translators
rnbtg,
First of all, there should be no need to give your original documents to the Sworn Translator. They can work off copies, or even electronic versions.
1. Here's the search page for the Junta Comercial of the State of São Paulo. The Junta Comercial is the organization in each state that appoints Sworn Translators. The search function is not intuitive, but it's pretty easy. Hit the radio button that says "Tradutor", choose "Inglês" for "Idioma", and hit "Pesquisar". A list of Sworn Translators that you can sort by column and download as a pdf will appear below. I would recommend sorting on "Posse" by most recent, to find the most up to date ones. Avoid any not listed as "Atuante", Active. Especially avoid any listed as "Falecido", Dead.
http://www.institucional.jucesp.sp.gov. … eilao.html
2. Just do a Google search on "Tradutor Juramentado São Paulo" and shoot out some emails.
3. I've had good results from an online firm, fidelity.com.br. At the very least, they'll be willing to give you some quotes on specific documents that you can compare to any you receive from the locals.
I did all of my translations electronically. Just send a clear scan to the translator. I received it back about a week later. I used a company called ep traduções
Here's my experience so far. I went with the 'first route' that abthree outlined. It felt a lot easier since my marriage was already registered through the Brazilian Consulate in DC years ago.
I recently (January) applied through the consulate in Washington, DC. Applied for my background check with the FBI, fingerprinted at my nearest approved USPS office.
I sent my application overnight to the consulate on Monday, received my passport with Visa on Friday (paid for overnight return shipping). Entered Brazil maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago with my visa and have my interview scheduled on Thursday in Belo Horizonte (took a very long time to actually get scheduled, looked several times every day).
No idea how the rest of the process will go, hopefully smooth. But maybe not as it seems as I'm heavily disadvantaged and possibly even suspicious of me attending the interview without my spouse and only with a local friend to help translate. Still not sure if I should leave all the talking to my translator and bother saying anything in Portuguese. My Portuguese is pretty good but not damn good.
Because the consulate already vetted all of my documents with the local notary (I didn't get an apostille stamp on anything), I don't have any of my original documents translated either (assuming I'm all good having had the consulate in Washington already issue my temporary visa).
02/22/22
okcummings
Since I assume that you have the Certidão Consular proving that you and your spouse registered your marriage, not having your spouse with you probably will not be a huge problem, although it would be better. If you two have already registered your Certidão in the cartório and have a Brazilian marriage certificate, so much the better. If not, that should be on your To-Do list too, although you don't need to get it done before your interview.
You should be ok without apostilles. I was, but that was under the previous law. I'm presuming that that didn't change under the current law, when you have the visa.
The Polícia Federal can ask for any additional documents that they want, and while it's ok to go in with your documents untranslated, be prepared to be told to get them translated and come back. If that doesn't happen, great! If it does, it will only set you back a couple of days and shouldn't count against you, as long as you come across as pleasant and cooperative.
Good luck! Please let us know how it goes.
22 Feb 2022
okcummings
First off, simply wishing you the very best of luck. I had my successful interview in SP 13 months back, the process was simple and yes, just making the appointment was by far the most difficult part. Yes, be prepared to explain why you are not with your spouse, that will certainly post a red flag.
Our appointment was for first thing in the morning when they opened. We arrived about 30 minutes early, there was already a line, maybe 25-30 people in front of us. Other people are there for other things, not just immigration interviews. Once the doors opened, the line went quickly. within a few moments, we were directed to an information window inside. From there, we went to a large waiting area where we had to take a number, then sit and wait again to go to another information window, only to sit and wait again. After about 20 minutes, our final number was called and we went to a window to see a clerk. She was polite and professional asking a few specific questions about the documentation I had provided to the Consulate in the USA where I had received my VITEM XI. I had brought organized copies of all of those documents with me to the interview, along with a few supporting documents, but the clerk really did not want to see any of them. I think she was just verifying that we indeed knew the information. She had me sign a few documents and she took a few photos of me, getting a good laugh at having to raise her camera so much as I am 1.94 meters tall, (it is virtually impossible to buy clothes for me in Brazil). We had asked about a letter for opening a bank account and she had it already printed and signed for me, a typed and printed pre-approval from the PF for me to open a bank account. That was it, all done, very easy.
From there, straight out to a cartório to register, and then to a bank where I could finally open two accounts and get a credit/debit card. We were in and out of the bank in like 30 minutes with a handshake and a welcome to Brazil from the manager.
Hi all,
Providing an update as requested (not sure if this should merit its own thread vs hijacking this one). I was scheduled for 10AM in Belo Horizonte, I arrived at 10:00 alone (this interview was without my spouse) and there were maybe 15 people there, including a group of younger folks from France (coincidentally I ran into more French folks as I was getting my photos taken the day before and I ran into a group of French backpackers in Ouro Preto a few weeks back too) -- just an unrelated observation.
Most of the people in line were there for 11:30 appointments so I was probably the only one who showed up on time. They did prioritize people who had appointments but allows walk-ins it seemed. The walk-ins had to wait for much longer.
When I was called in, I was greeted by a younger gentleman who spoke nearly perfect English (10% accent). I handed over our passports and he asked me what I was there applying for (family reunion). From there, he confirmed that I had all of the documents on the checklist, he returned the two 3x4cm photos I'd taken, took our passports to the back and told me to wait outside for about 15 minutes. It seemed like his function was to make sure that I had everything I needed.
About 10 minutes later, I was called back inside and brought to the back where I was greeted by a gentleman who spoke no English. He was very lax, watching a TV show on his phone. He greeted me moments later as he untangled his headphones from his mask. He only reviewed the interview appointment paper I'd handed and clicked away on the computer as he apologized for the systems being so slow. From there, he asked me to remove my mask for a photo, we went through a process of taking fingerprints, then I was directed to go to the desk behind me. The entire time, I was prepared to answer questions that just never came (why do I want to immigrate to Brazil, where is my spouse, what are my intentions in the country after I gain residence, etc.).
The table behind me, I was greeted by another gentleman who complimented my Portuguese. I think they're used to foreigners speaking Portuguese, probably just not Americans is what I gathered as I could hear another lady getting grilled 2 desks down from me. He didn't really say anything to me at all. At the end, he wanted to practice a little English and explained the instructions to me as to what I should expect (basically CRNM will arrive in the mail within the next 3-4 weeks at my address in Belo Horizonte).
From there, he handed me a printed paper, "Protocolo", which had included the following information:
- Name
- Date of Birth
- RNM #
- Classification (resident)
- "Amparo" (no idea what this is)
- Country of Origin
- Parents names
- Tipo de Requerimento
- Numero de Requerimento
- Date / Time of Admission
- Validade (mine had a date of 23/08/2022 which is 6 months out, not cure if my CRNM will read the same or not)
So as you've deduced from above, I was approved without issue or question. As walked out of the office, another applicant was talking to my friend and apparently said he got grilled. This gentleman was from Pakistan, he claimed that they're tougher on people from less affluent countries. I can't confirm if this is true or not, but I am a US citizen and I experienced 0 friction throughout this morning's interview process and I was incredibly nervous going into it.
Everyone was relaxed, laid back, and didn't demonstrate any desire to go beyond the basic duties of their jobs.
Now I guess it's time for me to figure out "what's next?" I think the only thing I have left on the table is my work permit.
Thanks so much everyone for your support and advise throughout the forum in this process.
Congrats, and thanks for the update! Very good to know others' experiences with the PF.
02/24/22
okcummings,
Congratulations -- you're in!
Don't worry about the six month date -- that's just the validity of the protocolo, so they don't lose track of it. You should have your CRNM before that. If you don't for some reason, you'll probably want to go to the office to ask, and they'll just tell you, "oh, don't worry, it's in process, and the protocolo won't REALLY expire."
This is the first time I've ever heard of a CRNM being sent by mail to the applicant. In the past, they've usually gone to the PF office and been picked up there. Maybe it's a covid precaution, and one that verifies your home address at the same time. I hope it works out.
Yes, next step is your Labor Card if you don't have it yet. If you don't have a SUS card, you should get that too, at any government clinic. Even if you have private insurance, it's a good backup. You also should be able to open a bank account.
okcummings
Oh yes, congratulations to you!
I was not offered an option to have my CRNM mailed to me last year. It was however ready on the day they said it would be and we picked it up easily at the same PF office. It can also be picked up by an "agent", a person with power of attorney to pick it up for you, which I understand is commonly done.
We were also told to go to a cartório right away to register my new protocol, ID, (passport), more photographs, and signature, which we did by walking to the nearest office. You should go to a cartório that is convenient for you though as you may need to return to that same office in the future.
@abthree Thanks so much for your input and guidance, not sure if you receive enough thanks in this forum but you and texas both seem to be gurus.
I may have misunderstood when he said that the CRNM would be delivered at my address, I went back to the instructions cutout he handed me and it basically says to check the website to see if my card is available for pickup, and that I'd be able to schedule an appointment. So totally possible that I'd misunderstood him. We were talking through plexiglass and he was practicing his English.
In terms of the bank account, I'm going to give it the good old college try in applying for one but not sure if I need the physical CRNM card first. Otherwise, I may have to wait for it.
Going to see if I can start the process for the labor card and the SUS card. Both are actually mentioned in the instruction cutout he handed me actually. I guess I need to read more
Hey ABTHREE, questions for you :-)
Even after working with sick people for thirty years, I never get sick, thank you god, but I also have not registered for my SUS yet in Brazil, but I know I should. I understand that is easy at any government clinic, correct?
Now then, what about the labor "card" you mentioned? I have only seen the little booklets people use to track their retirements. I think those are created and done through Caixa Economica, and usually set up by your first employer, no? Is there a different and actual "labor card"? How and where do you obtain this?
Thanks for all of the help and advice you provide to so many.
okcummings wrote:@abthree Thanks so much for your input and guidance, not sure if you receive enough thanks in this forum but you and texas both seem to be gurus.
I may have misunderstood when he said that the CRNM would be delivered at my address, I went back to the instructions cutout he handed me and it basically says to check the website to see if my card is available for pickup, and that I'd be able to schedule an appointment. So totally possible that I'd misunderstood him. We were talking through plexiglass and he was practicing his English.
In terms of the bank account, I'm going to give it the good old college try in applying for one but not sure if I need the physical CRNM card first. Otherwise, I may have to wait for it.
Going to see if I can start the process for the labor card and the SUS card. Both are actually mentioned in the instruction cutout he handed me actually. I guess I need to read more
___
I had asked the PF about bank accounts and they gave me a very nice letter of pre-approval for bank accounts in Brazil. From my appointment, we went straight to the nearest bank with my protolo and that letter and within 30 minutes, I walked out with two bank accounts, along with both a Debit and Credit card. After my 13 years, in Brazil, I finally had my own bank accounts. You do not need your actual CRNM to open accounts now, you are all set.
02/24/22
Hey, rraypo,
rraypo wrote:Hey ABTHREE, questions for you :-)
Even after working with sick people for thirty years, I never get sick, thank you god, but I also have not registered for my SUS yet in Brazil, but I know I should. I understand that is easy at any government clinic, correct?
Now then, what about the labor "card" you mentioned? I have only seen the little booklets people use to track their retirements. I think those are created and done through Caixa Economica, and usually set up by your first employer, no? Is there a different and actual "labor card"? How and where do you obtain this?
Yep, if you have a CRNM, and maybe just the RNM number on the protocolo, the SUS card is as easy as getting a CPF, at least it used to be before covid. You just have to go to any state clinic (you may be able to do it at a local primary care post, but the clinics definitely), tell them what you want, and show them your ID. As always, look carefully at your info as they type it into the system, to make sure that there are no typos.
Yes, when I talk about a "Labor Card", I mean the leatherette booklet that says "Carteiro de Trabalho e Previdência Social" on it. It tracks not only your retirement, but all of your legal jobs are recorded in it.
You used to be able to obtain that at any office of the State Labor Department. I understand that now it's digital, but since I already have the booklet, I've never bothered to get it, and since my phone is registered in the US, I can't download the app.
If your phone is registered in Brazil, download the app "Carteira de Trabalho Digital", and you should be able to get registered.
Thanks for the kind words.
abthree wrote:02/24/22
Yep, if you have a CRNM, and maybe just the RNM number on the protocolo, the SUS card is as easy as getting a CPF, at least it used to be before covid. You just have to go to any state clinic (you may be able to do it at a local primary care post, but the clinics definitely), tell them what you want, and show them your ID. As always, look carefully at your info as they type it into the system, to make sure that there are no typos.
Yes, when I talk about a "Labor Card", I mean the leatherette booklet that says "Carteiro de Trabalho e Previdência Social" on it. It tracks not only your retirement, but all of your legal jobs are recorded in it.
You used to be able to obtain that at any office of the State Labor Department. I understand that now it's digital, but since I already have the booklet, I've never bothered to get it, and since my phone is registered in the US, I can't download the app.
If your phone is registered in Brazil, download the app "Carteira de Trabalho Digital", and you should be able to get registered.
Thanks for the kind words.
___
Yes, I have my CRNM.
Although I have driven others to clinics and hospitals, I have only been to one hospital for myself, a private one in SP and paid case, (it was a GREAT experience and I have been in and worked in a lot of hospitals). I will go and get my SUS card though as one never knows what tomorrow will bring. In the USA, I get a DOT physical, and blood panel done, every other year as I have had a CDL to drive anything for wow, more than several decades now.
My wife has(d) the little leather booklet for labor, but was able to cash that in and she used that money as a down payment on a home in the USA in her own name. Yes, we both keep one cell phone just for Brazil and I will be back in Brazil within a month, so I will work on a labor card then. I should get one as I doubt I will ever stop working, I actually enjoy it. I'm in Oregon right now remodeling three homes, alone and at the same time, while I just finished another one before stating these.
Thanks again
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