Buying Property in Brazil
Last activity 23 December 2022 by rraypo
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Hello.
Here is my situation. Anyone with a past similar experience, please give me your thoughts.
I am married to a Brazilian that lives in Brazil. We are buying a condo apartment in São Paulo mid-August. Contract is signed and R$10,000 deposit has been paid. We were planning on financing 50% of the purchase price, the other 50% is already at Bradesco. Financing has been declined on the only basis that we are married and that I do not have a RNM (as I don’t plan on immigrating just yet).
The other 50% will therefore need to be transferred from Canada (which is fine since I never was keen with the outrageous mortgage rates in 🇧🇷 at the moment (9.25%)).
Please help me plan that transfer so it is safe and efficient with no withholdings.
How did YOU do it?
Thanks 🙏
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2744
Is the Bradesco account in her name?
Are you using an attorney IN Brazil?
If you have an attorney, see if s/he can have an account to hold the fund in her name. Transfer money to the attorney. (no type of escrow account in BR)
My first purchase was a condo in Curitiba and my wife and the lawyer went to BB and spoke with back office as to the same issue. BB cleared it through the CB and BB advised Bradesco (which was HSBC at the time) I wired money to our attorney for the closing.
Now there are risks. One, the real property will be in her name. You will have to make changes once you obtain the CRMN.
Get a CPF at the Embassy/Consulate in Canada. This helps somewhat.
Unless you want to try for an investor visa. I see no other way.
Many on Expat have purchased the property and will "chime in".
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Use an attorney or professional facilitator for all of this. I was recommended to one in SP through this group and have been sending others to him. I truly personally hesitate to only offer you my opinion
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If you are married in Brazil then you have to choose one of four property-and-income regimes much like a prenup. one of them makes all assets and income to be joint property, the middle two are mixed between new assets and pre-marriage assets and inheritances, and the last makes all assets and income to be separate. I'm told the last option is required if one party is 70 or more years of age.
If you dont know or if you werent married in Brazil, then before the property you are trying to buy is deeded you need to decide how the ownership will go down, so that it is known who will pay property taxes and who gets to keep it if there is death or divorce.
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06/12/22 Hi, CryptoFlyGuy,
I would proceed as Texanbrazil suggests, including getting a CPF ASAP.
As Inubia says, if you were married in Brazil, the condominium ownership will follow the property regime that you agreed to at that time, so you want to be sure to understand what that is. If you were married in Canada and have a pre-nup, that should have been registered at the Brazilian Consulate when you registered your marriage there, and passed through from the Consular Certification to your Brazilian Marriage Certificate ("Traslado de Casamento"). If you didn't have a pre-nup, then the Consulate would have put you into a Brazilian property regime just like a cartório would if you were married in Brazil, so that will control.
Even though you don't plan on immigrating right away, I would recommend getting your permanent residency and CRNM soon anyway. There's really no downside, you can keep it as long as you're not out of the country for more than two continuous years, and it would solve some of these documentation problems.
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Thanks for your inputs…..
It is a lot to swallow all at once. Here are some answers to your questions:
- I have a CPF
- Married in (Québec) Canada… no prenup. Validated at the Brazilian consulate in Montreal and then registered in Brazil
- I currently live 45% in Europe, 45% in Canada and 10% in Brasil….. until I end my career then BR75%/CA25%
- I do not have a bank account in BR, the Bradesco account is in my husband’s name
- The initial plan is to buy the property in his name only
The transfer of money is easy enough (MoneyCorp or bank-to-bank) but I want to make sure the funds are not locked up on arrival and I want to make sure he is not taxed as if it was a taxable income.
All you inputs are appreciated.
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2744
CryptoFlyGuy,
I would again advise him to speak with Bradesco's back office. All this must be cleared through the Central Bank so he may receive the funds. I believe he will be taxed if the wire goes through. You will raise flags without having the CB approval.
I went through an attorney. I did have my protocol for my RNE (waiting on Brassila to issue the card) and sent it to my attorney to complete the purchase.
As abthree said I would get all the documents to obtain a CRNM based on marriage.
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@abthree
"If you were married in Canada and have a pre-nup, that should have been registered at the Brazilian Consulate when you registered your marriage there, and passed through from the Consular Certification to your Brazilian Marriage Certificate ("Traslado de Casamento"). If you didn't have a pre-nup, then the Consulate would have put you into a Brazilian property regime just like a cartório would if you were married in Brazil, so that will control."
I thought I read somewhere that, for marrying without a prenup in the USA, when you register at the Consulate in the US, you do not have a choice of marriage regime. Instead the regime noted on your marriage cert will default to the regime of the US State that you were married in. If that happens to be "joint property" then that is the regime that will be placed on the Consulate Marriage Cert.
Can anyone confirm this.
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06/15/22 @CryptoFlyGuy -- Thanks, that clarifies things beautifully.
Your situation is very much like ours was. The wedding/register at the Consulate/record at the cartório process was exactly the same. The only differences were that I'm a US, not a Canadian, citizen, I had already moved to Brazil when we bought, I already had my CRNM, and the apartment is in both of our names.
I doubt very much that your husband will have a tax liability from the transaction that you describe, but it's in his and your best interests to get professional advice from a Brazilian tax accountant before you proceed. Canada and Brazil have a tax treaty, but if the funds were already taxed in Canada, my understanding is that that is more likely to work in your favor or be neutral than it is to work against you.
As Texanbrazil writes above and I've written in other threads, if your husband has a talk with his Bradesco branch manager about a week before the transfer, with the purchase documents, your Traslado de Casamento, and perhaps your most recent bank statement showing that the funds are yours, the bank should make sure that the transfer goes through without any delays. Since you're not here they may require some additional proof that the funds are legit, which is the reason to go the week before. That's what we did; on the morning we had planned to complete the purchase the funds had been received, and we went to my bank's office with the Seller, had a bank officer transfer the funds to the Seller's account, and then the Seller and both of us went directly to the cartório to complete the paperwork. Easy and trouble-free.
Congratulations, and good luck! 👍🏻
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106/15/22 @abthreeI thought I read somewhere that, for marrying without a prenup in the USA, when you register at the Consulate in the US, you do not have a choice of marriage regime. Instead the regime noted on your marriage cert will default to the regime of the US State that you were married in. If that happens to be "joint property" then that is the regime that will be placed on the Consulate Marriage Cert.Can anyone confirm this.- @seinfo3
As I recall from our visit to the Consulate to register our marriage, if we had not had a pre-nup, the Consular officer said that we would have been required to select among the Brazilian options to register the marriage, just like a cartório, not flow through the requirements of Illinois law, which is where we were married. Since we did have a pre-nup, though, she just took a copy of that and recorded it in their books along with the Marriage Certificate, so I didn't pay too much attention to the other alternatives.
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@CryptoFlyGuy
All of the above posters are spot on for the replies.
Just, for your own sake, avoid escrow and deposits in future transactions. All transactions here take place in good faith with no cash exchange. What you did was not illegal, but not a pro forma requirement. The institution of escrow accounts here is non existent, thanks to many fraudulent and will deeded transactions. I have yet to preside over any closing that demanded deposit or escrow.
Yes, use an attorney, ( https://www.martindale.com/ has registered Brazilian attorneys in it, although they might not come out cheap ) even thought they are not required in closings. Just for your own informed protection and peace of mind. The way Brazilians go through simple purchase and sale transactions of residential real estate only requires they use a Registry of Deed ( Cartorio ) of their choice, as gophers between you and the actually Clerk of Property Deed your location is circumscribed to ). Yet, since you are a foreigner, you might want to spend the extra money, and given they will be used as a tool to bring in the money legally.
Bank decline rates are well known on foreigners. You have no track residency here, and no relationship with your branch manager, so for all intents and purposes, you are a complete stranger here.
Your spouse ( I assume on your replies it's him not her, either ways, not that relevant ) is going to own free and clear title and deed until changes are appended on your Registry of Deeds to include yourself as the facto co-owner. The American Version of "She is a good housekeeper" here is called " Meu Bem, Meus Bens" ( My dear, my holdings ). Just make sure you are stable and in the same footing. No rush decisions. She or he must be a keeper, just as it might be in Canada.
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@rraypo I am looking to buy a house. Can you send me the contact details of the attorney you recommend please. Thanks in advance. I am a resident in Brazil with a CPF and bank account.
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1This morning we looked through a new house being built in the neighborhood here ....smallish but very well appointed for this area ....living room, dining room, kitchen, two baths, two bedrooms, carport, tile throughout, glass doors, no grass to mow, 10 foot wall around everything as customary around here.....they are asking R $180K .....its a nice deal but I'd rather live somewhere else, msyelf....
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@rraypo I am looking to buy a house. Can you send me the contact details of the attorney you recommend please. Thanks in advance. I am a resident in Brazil with a CPF and bank account.
-@timw445
I will send you a private message off here so we are not promoting anyone or any business.
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