Is there an ATM card reader near you?

Bob writes "Yesterday while shopping at Landers in Pasig City . . I withdrew P4900 at the BDO ATM inside Landers. Between my withdrawal and paying my grocery bill another P8,000 was withdrawn not by me at the same ATM. (I put a lock on my card to prevent another unauthorized withdrawal.) I guess in the future I will make my cash withdrawals inside the bank using a teller. I also will use a charge card for any Landers purchases to prevent fraud. I have a stateside charge card that notifies me by email whenever my card is used and asks if it was me." @Enzyte Bob

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Well, bad luck Bob.  And also, well done .. you got onto it quickly.

Nuisance though, "making my cash withdrawals inside the bank using a teller."

Maybe you could find, and stop at, a bank-wall ATM on the way?

I guess maybe they'd be more secure than a shop-based ATM?

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Bob writes "Yesterday while shopping at Landers in Pasig City . . I withdrew P4900 at the BDO ATM inside Landers. Between my withdrawal and paying my grocery bill another P8,000 was withdrawn not by me at the same ATM. (I put a lock on my card to prevent another unauthorized withdrawal.) I guess in the future I will make my cash withdrawals inside the bank using a teller. I also will use a charge card for any Landers purchases to prevent fraud. I have a stateside charge card that notifies me by email whenever my card is used and asks if it was me." @Enzyte Bob
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Well, bad luck Bob. And also, well done .. you got onto it quickly.

Nuisance though, "making my cash withdrawals inside the bank using a teller."

Maybe you could find, and stop at, a bank-wall ATM on the way?

I guess maybe they'd be more secure than a shop-based ATM?

`
-@PalawOne

@Enzyte Bob

So presumably your card account is with BDO? Whenever I am in the Philippines I always try to use my own banks ATM. If there is a disputed withdrawal I just notify my bank and the money is recredited immediately. Under UK law the customer is protected provided they have not been shown to be negligent in terms of how they have used the card which is fair enough. Many expats in the Philippines keep their domicled country bank accounts with the attendant indigenous consumer protection laws. I would imagine US banks offer the same protection as in the UK.

The problem I have is there are very few HSBC (my bank) ATM's in the provinces. That said I would still be covered using a BDO terminal.

You say your withdrawal was inside the supermarket which means there must be security cameras. Did they not pick up anything?

@Lotus Eater

I always take a certain amount of cash and use my Halifax Credit card or RBS debit card while there, mostly using the BDO cash machines outside the banks if possible. some hotels I have stayed at sometimes have cash machines inside them and that find handy.

I did consider using one of the cards that allows you to load with money before visiting, from the Post Office I think but I could not seem to find out from staff at the Post Office or by a google search if they were valid in the Philippines.

PalawOne said:

Nuisance though, "making my cash withdrawals inside the bank using a teller."

Maybe you could find, and stop at, a bank-wall ATM on the way?

I guess maybe they'd be more secure than a shop-based ATM?

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Well I maybe over reacting but maybe if I was a knowledgeable IT Person wanting to hide my bad deeds, I would might choose a location like outside a BDO bank. That location would have the most action with the least concern about security.

What I've read it's very sophisticated, they hack the software to read the codes imbedded on your card and the keystrokes of your pin, then transmit the info to a car in the parking lot. In the parking lot they make up a blank card and imbed the info.

Thus they have duplicated your card and have the pin.

Now does BDO or any other bank even care about us small guys, why chase after an P8000 fraud, maybe hundreds or even thousand small complaints get washed under the table. A big fraud claim of hundred thousand pesos or more might get their action.

The ATM's have cameras, it would be easy to see the picture of the fraudster, but nobody from BDO will check to see the person doing the fraudulent transaction. I think BDO has a big problem on their hands, probably so much fraud they just wash their hands and say Tough Luck.

Maybe you could find, and stop at, a bank-wall ATM on the way?

Yes you really are tempting fate using an external ATM often on a busy street where one is easily distracted. That gorgeous Filipina chick that you thought took a liking to you in the queue; think again.

I would have thought that ATM's in the shopping Malls see the most action and are a better location for fraudsters to operate. I would have also thought that if the bank knows the date and time of a withdrawal it would just be a simple matter of viewing a few seconds of footage from the security cameras to find the culprit.

The best bet I guess would be to find an ATM next to a drug den or some other big criminal enterprise if possible, I am sure those sort of people would not want any unwanted attention from a bunch of bank scammers.

Maybe you could find, and stop at, a bank-wall ATM on the way?

Yes you really are tempting fate using an external ATM often on a busy street where one is easily distracted. That gorgeous Filipina chick that you thought took a liking to you in the queue; think again. -@Lotus Eater

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All the bank ATMs I've seen, and used, always have an armed guard or two posted alongside.

Much better secured than any Shop ATM I've seen, usually tucked away in an unused corner.

But maybe your local bank branch ATMs are completely different?

@Enzyte Bob

This is sad & an heads up for everyone with a local ATM card.....I just logged onto my BDO online account to double check my bank balance...all looks good; but they kept asking me to change my password like every other month...which can be very irritating/troublesome especially when using my mobile phone.

Personally I never use my BDO ATM card for over the counter payments....I pay in cash.

So sorry for this unfortunate scenario and inconvenience. Since i've been living here going back to 2014, a similar situation has happened to me. I immediately went to my bank to inform them what happened in a panic, and unfortunately to my disappointment, learned the hardway that nothing immediate could remedy my loss of 10,0000.

My advise:

only withdraw from ATMs belonging to the Bank you are a customer/client to, and be diligent to track your daily and weekly withdrawals and general cash flow. Make note of it by hand so that you can refer to it as a back-up in case later on weeks from now you discover an anomaly in any withdrawals or deduction atm slips you do not recognize.

We found it easiest and safest to withdraw cash from the bank account(BDO) once a month, pay all the bills with cash and have enough additional cash to only do this once a month.  No problems over 19 months.

Skimming is a problem in Indonesia, much of it down to East European gangs in Bali.

My banking app has a card free ATM withdrawal feature.

If you have the same, it's a dirty great big middle finger to the thieves

@Fred

Remember our Albanian friend 'Ermaldervishaj' on the Indonesian Forum who posted a few days ago? Silly me I'm sure he has valid reasons for wanting to take $6k cash into the country

Too bad we don't have ATMs here abouts, I would be proud to be scammed by an ATM. I've been scammed so many times it's starting to feel good, I look forward to the next one. My GCash was just hit for P11,000+ and I applaud the ingenuity of the scammer.

I sent $200 to my GCash with Western Union, and for the previous 9 transactions the money was there in minutes, but this time is took 4 days. On the 3rd day I was on the GCash Facebook page letting them have it. I sent a couple messages and got a reply from "GCash Cares" with a GCash logo. I was asked the same questions the Gigi bot asked which was apparently enough for them to change my MPIN and get the P127 I had in the account via a Lazada order. No problem, I reported it and changed my MPIN and enabled face ID. Problem solved and I only lost P127!

Now comes the good part, the next day the $200 finally cleared and my GCash account was once again flush with cash, for a couple minutes. I was soon receiving text messages that the payments to Lazada had successfully processed. The first one was for P20, then P5,000, another P5.000 and finally P1,000, but they left me with P380. The next day they got P300 so now I only had P80.

So here is what I learned, if a person has access to your GCash account they can link the account to their Lazada account and they will no longer need a password or MPIN to spend all your money. There must also be a way to transfer money to Lazada in round numbers. I'm thinking the hacker is a GCash employee who has an excellent side hustle.

@Moon Dog

Just out of interest, roughly how many times have you been scammed and are all the scams linked to one or more of your cards?

@Cherryann01 Probably only about 6 or 7 times. I don't think any were related to my cards.

I also protect my email from scams or infections. All my email is on a off site server and I pay $5.95 a month. I have two email accounts with this provider.

The first account is a general account that I had for28 years, yes from 1994. This is used for general everyday stuff.

The second is for my private stuff and the account is only known to my banks and paid services that require online payment. I have never received Spam because the address is not publicly exposed.

Lately my provider has added five anonymous accounts to be used like burner phones.

All my email is read in HTML from their server.

So I get a lot of scams on the general account, fake invoice all the time, I don't bother to down load or read them, I just send them to the trash can.

@Cherryann01 Probably only about 6 or 7 times. I don't think any were related to my cards.
-@Moon Dog

You have had some tough luck, 6 or 7 times is a fair few.

@Cherryann01

Those are the scams that Moon Dog (and others) are cognisant of. Others go under the radar. But hey if you are unaware of the scams ( and Filipinos are masters of the little scams) then why lose sleep over them.

Not sure if related.

I always wondered why some new-type wallets are advertised as being "RFID non-readable".

A Filipino friend told me she lost money in a card reading theft. Credit and Debit cards can make "contactless" payments, like in restaurants, when the waitress comes to your table with a wireless device. Just swipe and leave. The payment limit was increased during covid to minimise having to physically punch in pin numbers etc.

Technically, these portable devices that can read your card and authorise a payment without you seeing the amount or touching the device. The theft is to place a card reader hidden in a purse or such near to your wallet, and to and authroise a contactless payment without you knowing.

@gsturdee

An astute observation gsturdee. I changed my wallet 5 years ago for this added protection. As the saying goes if it can happen it will - especially in the Philippines.

Recent posts motivated me to look into RFID.

Debit Cards. . . . Perpetrators can read the RFID chips your cards until they go blind or develop hairy knuckles. It's useless unless they know the pin number.

Credit Cards. . . .This is the info I gathered. The RFID chip on your card doesn't pass your actual card number to the retailer, instead it creates a one time use number that is only good for the transaction you are making at the moment.

RFDI protected wallets use aluminum foil, but once you remove it from your wallet it does not have protection, similar to a condom, once you remove it you have no protection.

If any of this information is incorrect blame the writers . . . .I'm only the messenger.

@Enzyte Bob

That's informative as always, thanks.

Regarding contactless payment - when you run a card over the sensor of a wireless card reader at a cafe then your account is debited. There's no PIN required. Speculating, if a thief had the same type device, and access to a vendor's trading number, couldn't he do the same? It might show up as an erroneous charge on your statement, or go unnoticed, and they continue to get away with it until reported?

Regarding contactless payment - when you run a card over the sensor of a wireless card reader at a cafe then your account is debited. There's no PIN required. If a thief had the same type device, and access to a vendor's trading number, couldn't he do the same? It might show up as an erroneous charge on your statement, or go unnoticed, and continue until reported?
-@gsturdee

Now you got me thinking, the way I understand it from reading: There is a limit for debit cards contactless payments and above that limit you have to provide a pin. I don't how that or contactless payments work regarding the pin.

(1) I don't see a circumstance where you would run into a thief and then run your card over his sensor.

(2) I'm old school, but I'm beyond writing checks, so I will skip contactless payment, I will continue to insert my card into the card terminal and key in my pin.

@Enzyte Bob

Yes I think you're right. In theory one could only go up to the auto-approved contactless limit, before requiring the pin.

Yes I remember the cheque books...and some of the tricks that went on with them in the old days.

My wife and I keep our credit and debit cards home in the safe. We never need them anymore in our situation. I keep photos of the front and back on my phone.

@Moon Dog

Very Wise idea.

I have 2 credit cards, one of which I don't ever really use unless for a dire emergency.  The other for unexpected expenses that I cannot easily pay for if i don't have sufficient cash on me.

those, with my passport, i keep in a safety deposit box offered by a 2nd party service that is within a short jeepney ride from where i live.

@kristopherryanwatson My cards get bent, cracked and unreadable after a couple years in my wallet so that is the main reason I keep my cards in the safe. The cards being out of reach of pick pockets and card readers is another valid reason to protect them the way I do.

My wife and I keep our credit and debit cards home in the safe. We never need them anymore in our situation. I keep photos of the front and back on my phone.
-@Moon Dog

I think keeping photos of the front and back of your cards on your phone is NOT a good idea. If your phone gets stolen, the thief could get access to your account. Or if you need your phone repaired, the tech might also get access.

I memorized the account numbers, expiration dates and the CV codes for both my debit and credit cards.

I don't keep more than 5,000 pesos plus maintaining balance in my debit card. If I need to withdraw more, I make a transfer from my non-ATM account to my debit card.

BDO now has a cardless QR code option for ATM withdrawals. Using their mobile banking app, you indicate the amount you want to withdraw from your account and the date you want to make the withdrawal. The app will generate a QR code which can be read by a QR-enabled ATM machine. The code is valid for 24 hours. There's no need to use the actual card or key in your PIN.

One nice thing about this cardless withdrawal is you can have someone withdraw for you without giving then your card or PIN. But the problem is not that many ATMs are equipped with a QR reader. For now, there's only 100 of these machines and according to BDO's website, all of them are in Makati. But BDO did state that they will be adding more machines nationwide.

Looking forward to cardless withdrawals.

I think keeping photos of the front and back of your cards on your phone is NOT a good idea. If your phone gets stolen, the thief could get access to your account. Or if you need your phone repaired, the tech might also get access.

-@FilAmericanMom

I have Face ID enabled on my iPhone so the thief would have to have my face or know the 6 digit pass code. Then they would have to contact my sister in law in the US because they would need the OTP Wells Fargo sends to my US phone for online purchases. Simple maintenance like changing the battery or replacing a cracked screen I do myself, otherwise I buy a new phone.

Moon Dog said . . . . I have Face ID enabled on my iPhone so the thief would have to have my face phone.

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All Gringo's look alike.

@Enzyte Bob If the thief had my face he would probably be making movies and not stealing phones.

I think keeping photos of the front and back of your cards on your phone is NOT a good idea. If your phone gets stolen, the thief could get access to your account. Or if you need your phone repaired, the tech might also get access.

-@FilAmericanMom

I have Face ID enabled on my iPhone so the thief would have to have my face or know the 6 digit pass code. Then they would have to contact my sister in law in the US because they would need the OTP Wells Fargo sends to my US phone for online purchases. Simple maintenance like changing the battery or replacing a cracked screen I do myself, otherwise I buy a new phone.
-@Moon Dog

I guess it's fine as long as the picture is not in external storage / memory card.

Speaking of scams, could this be a scammer?: The other day I received a call on my mobile from someone in area code +1904. I blocked it because I know the area codes of my close friends and family back in the US, and that area code is not one of theirs. And besides, if they needed to call me, they'll use messenger or Viber. I looked up the area code and found out it's in Florida. Maybe some prince is stuck there and desperately calling anyone who can help him recover millions of dollars in a bank account held by the government for a few pesos. LOL.

FiAmericanMom said . . . Speaking of scams, could this be a scammer?: The other day I received a call on my mobile from someone in area code +1904. I blocked it because I know the area codes of my close friends and family back in the US, and that area code is not one of theirs. And besides, if they needed to call me, they'll use messenger or Viber. I looked up the area code and found out it's in Florida. Maybe some prince is stuck there and desperately calling anyone who can help him recover millions of dollars in a bank account held by the government for a few pesos. LOL.

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Just like VPN's giving fake IP addresses there are sites (US) you can get that spoof phone numbers, you pick the number to show up on the caller ID. The service goes farther, you can pick the background noise or even have your voice altered.

Stateside spammers often spoof/disguise their numbers.

I must get between 5 and 10 emails every week starting, Dear beneficiary, we have been trying to contact you for weeks or I am writing about your inheritance. I just send them to the bin.

A representative for one of my credit cards called me today and informed me that they noticed a suspicious purchase attempt with my card on Facebook Marketplace amounting to over PhP11,000 and another small purchase for around PhP18. I didn't make those purchases. So, they blocked my card and will send me a new one.

I now vaguely remember that there was one merchant whose cashier swiped my card to a slot on her keyboard in addition to my sliding it into a the store's card reader. I thought it was a bit odd. But I didn't say anything. I'll be more careful next time.

@Cherryann01

I must be on the same mailing list.

I'll try to do the joke justice, but a friend sent me a picture of a room full of cash. The caption read "a Nigerian had man died leaving an unclaimed USD 20 billion in his apartment. He'd been trying to give it way for 15 years, but no one replied to his emails."

I have been lucky in general regarding being scammed but I would like to share with you good people the one time I was well and truly scammed. Not ATM or card related but very good.

I was in Budapest, alone, although that is another story, I did not go alone. I was staying at the Marriot Hotel on the Pest side near the shores of the river Danube. A lovely hotel and a beautiful city. Any how, I was out one afternoon just in one of the shopping streets behind the hotel when I was approached by two young ladies. One, a blonde was extremely beautiful but she was just dressed in jeans and a top, nothing too sexy. Any way I can't really remember how I got talking to them, one probably asked me if I was lost or something similar. Then they just asked normal questions like, how long are you here for, what do you think of the city, what have you done and seen so far, etc. Introductions were made, they said they came from Siofok, a town on the shores of Lake Balaton and were in Budapest for a few days. I have been to Siofok so we chatted about general things and walked along together.

After about 10 or 15 minutes one of the girls suggested visiting a cafe/restaurant just for a drink and a light bite and they said we would split the bill 3 ways. The place we went, which they obviously knew seemed nice, nothing too fancy but nicely decorated with a reasonable menu. We sat down ordered a platter of cold meats, salami, hams. cheeses, etc and had 2 or 3 shots of the local firewater. Everything was good until the bill came.

Now Budapest was not an expensive city and I was presented with a bill for an exorbitant amount. I can't remember the exact amount but it was maybe £600, something in the region of 20 to 25 times the actual cost. I obviously protested but was given a menu with the prices on and also told to look at the menu in the window if I did not believe them. They even told me to call the Police if I was not happy. Any way they said the bill would be split 3 ways so I owed £200, which I did not have on me so they sent a heavy with me to my hotel to get my debit card so I could withdraw the money from an ATM.

Obviously the 2 girls were in on the scam and did not have to pay a penny but it just goes to show how elaborate these scams can be. Maybe I should have contacted the Police but there is no crime in charging the amount advertised unless I could have proven otherwise.