Backup generator suggestions?

Another option may be an charger/inverter with batteries to keep the fridges running in a power cut.

This sort of thing

https://id.carousell.com/p/inverter-pac … 158774753/

Connect another to the aircom, and one to whatever else you feel is required.

The nuumber of batteries depends on how long you want to draw any given amount of power.

It all depends - if outages are common but rarely last more than a few hours, this sort of thing might be a bettr bet as your fridges will run even if you're out when the power fails.

@Fred

We're getting them scheduled once a month for 10-13hrs (always Sunday). Plus a couple days a month it seems for a few hours for whatever reasons.

That inverter would run a fridge but couldn't cope with the startup current. You'd need at least 3,000W inverter. That's a lot of batteries if you need it for a few hours.

You'd need to be more detailed about how much power you'll need in order to calculate what generator you'd need. As a guide, I'd probably be looking at a 10KW and still be careful about how many appliances I was using.

    @FredWe're getting them scheduled once a month for 10-13hrs (always Sunday). Plus a couple days a month it seems for a few hours for whatever reasons.         -@Larry Fisher

Def a genny for that.

Mid size AC around 400w plus whatever else you want to run, then double the final number

A hard one Larry, lots to think about. Our power used to pretty stable for years but when we got hit wit a typhoon a couple of years ago first thing I did that morning was to race out and buy a generator because I knew the power would be out for a long time and also to beat the late comers, we ended up grabbing a 5.5Kva Honda and turns out money well spent. Runs a 24CF fridge freezer, the 1 HP A/C in the bedroom as well as internet etc. but remember it will cost you 2/3 times the price to run, and noisy, we never hooked it into the system and simply ran a heap of leads. It has been a godsend through our 18 months of construction for the workers when the power dies to keep them working. Now it appears redundant with the solar system.

The mayor across the road has a 20Kva silenced diesel gen set wired into the home and works ok from what he and the old owner said and pretty quiet. I can still hear the hum 100 metres away.

Given what you mentioned you want to run I would think 8 to 10Kva. or go smaller and manage your loads and forget your water heater 3.6 to 6Kw, your 1HP water pump while only 750 watts will be 5 to 7 times that on start up, the nature of induction motors even though a split second will still make your generator grunt.

I eventually got sick of the constant power outages and dragging the Generator out and running a heap of leads, outages can be 1 or 2 hours or all day since the typhoon, seems our power supplier is still trying to recover from that. We simply invested in stand alone solar to negate the constant outages and while a long term investment is paying off, we also have the ability to throw a few breakers and reconnect to the grid.

I'm not sure what else to say Larry, it is a tough decision and only one you and your family can make.

Good luck.

Cheers, Steve.

As a otr trucker I ran 8 deep cycle batteries in the truck. Four for the truck, and four for the "hotel supply" with a 3000w inverter. I could run my bunk AC and my NinjaFoodi grill, or my convection/microwave oven combo, but not both. Even then, after 5-6 hours of AC use after cooking dinner, the engine would auto-start up and run high idle for 45 mins to charge the hotel batteries to 80%. So I understand inverters, but I ain't buying a bunch of batteries and having to charge them up too, plus laying around wherever.

I'll look into it on generators. I'm hoping to make it seamless if possible. If we went into an extended period due to a typhoon, it would be great to know where "normal" so long as we have fuel.

Hear you Larry, our 41 ft motorhome had 4 x 600Ah deep cycle batteries and a 3Kw sine wave invertor and by morning half the power stored was gone and seemed to me that the 8 x 250 watt panels were not enough but no more roof space and at times yes either run the Detroit V8 or the auxiliary DC generator, that was a long time ago. Both were noisy especially the 2 stroke GM.

Old and lazy perhaps but we went solar and in 5 months have saved P100K so say 240K per year or ROI in under 7 years and no black outs, no cranking up a generator running leads and no power bills,,,, I lie, the last one was 5.6 pesos for the connection charge, used to be 2.8 pesos.

We started with a generator for back up and worked well and helped in tight situations but was noisy and expensive to run but did the job. we will offload the gen set in the future as no further use.

A reminder Larry size your loads and what you can or cannot not connect to reduce the generator size and thus the purchase price.

Moving on a little the mayor threw on a 10Kw solar array and swaps the excess back to the grid at a 4 to 1 ratio. Because his home is grid tied when the power goes out they have to crank up the diesel generator to run the home, he didn't invest in stand alone and his generator runs 2/3 times a week.

Honestly Larry it's a trade off, what you need, what you want and what you can afford and consider ROI and property value/resale. Generators are great and used them for 40/50 years in construction, film sets and now here, not many things beat the grid until it dies. Power bills aside.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

Many things to consider here, if its just for regular brownouts 4-5hrs a day, 3 -4 times a week, I would recommend a smaller unit to just run Essentials-Water pump, TV, Fan, Fridge, wifi etc, maybe a 4kw-5kw unit, But since you stated for maybe 3-4 weeks due to a natural occurrence, you would indeed need a backup unit in the 10Kw-12kw range, then you decide Gas or Diesel...Diesel is safer to store but units are louder then gas. Pull start or electric, Air Cooled or Water cooled, and to calculate wattage more precisely is tricky.

Running Watts vs Startup Watts. Depends on how many motors will be starting up at the same time. For example to Run a 1hp pump is Roughly 750w running but the startup is triple that at roughly 2300w.

For me, I decided all I need is the essentials, so

looking at a 4kw unit that is a inverter unit, it sips gas and very quiet. Once you narrow it down, I recommend searching youtube vids and watch the starting up procedure and actual running sounds of each unit your interested in for some comparisons before putting down the cash.

@Larry Fisher

We have a Daiden 7000 diesel which is rated at 6000 running watts. It handles all appliances, TVs, a 3/4 hp well pump and 2 1/2 hp worth of air-conditioning. It doesn't like it when the water heater kicks in when it already has a good load but we stopped using the water heater a while back so no problem. You can hear the governor open up a little when the well pump starts up but we now use municipal water so no issue there either, not that it was a issue. We bought it from Brodeth for P50K and it has 300+ trouble free hours on it now.

Good feedback coming in Larry from members. Honestly from experience and mostly sad as generators cost to buy and to run as does every thing in life.

Given what you want to run I would be looking at 7 to 8Kva, maybe even 10. Things to consider are start up ratings so say the water pump is 750 watts when it fires up could draw 3 to 4 Kw for a second and while invertor refrigerators and A/C units require less start current when they are running they generally use the rated consumption for a while then feather back.

Example: and only from my limited observations, If we fire up say a 1HP A/C it will draw 7 to 800 watts but after 15 minutes will start throttling back as the room cools and after say half an hour once the room cools will fluctuate between 250 to 400 watts, our 24 cubic ft invertor fridge/freezer is rated at 1.8 amps but I don't believe that rating. Induction motors are the killer, pumps, power tools etc.

I have a live feed for our solar system here refreshed every 10 seconds. We are currently running 2 x 1HP and 1 x 2.5 HP invertor A/C units, the big fridge, the water pump as required, TV, lights and all the general things and currently using 4Kwh, If I were to put the kettle on it would be 6Kwh and if the water pump fired it would be say 8Kwh for a second and you need to allow for that. Our invertors here are 5Kw each and linked for load sharing so a 10Kw limit and works.

I sized the generator to run and most importantly the fridge/freezer, the water pump, 1 x 1H/P A/C unit a fan or 2 and lighting as required, a TV, internet etc. and the 5.5Kva worked fine, grunts when the water pump kicks in and the water heaters turned off and boil water on the gas stove. Manage your loads and what you really need.

Not trying to sell solar but in the end/through our build I got sick of dragging out the gen set, running a heap of cables to connect things and 10/12 hours later packing it all up again only to drag it all out again a week later. For me/us the clincher was realizing that we wanted to run more A/C given we doubled the house size and I didn't want a P 20K bill every month so we went solar.

Don't get me wrong as the gen set worked well and got us out of the sh1t many many times over 2 years and now redundant.

Size your needs Larry.

Good luck.

Cheers, Steve.

    Many things to consider here, if its just for regular brownouts 4-5hrs a day, 3 -4 times a week, I would recommend a smaller unit to just run Essentials-Water pump, TV, Fan, Fridge, wifi etc, maybe a 4kw-5kw unit, But since you stated for maybe 3-4 weeks due to a natural occurrence, you would indeed need a backup unit in the 10Kw-12kw range, then you decide Gas or Diesel...Diesel is safer to store but units are louder then gas. Pull start or electric, Air Cooled or Water cooled, and to calculate wattage more precisely is tricky.
Running Watts vs Startup Watts. Depends on how many motors will be starting up at the same time. For example to Run a 1hp pump is Roughly 750w running but the startup is triple that at roughly 2300w.
For me, I decided all I need is the essentia
looking at a 4kw unit that is a inverter unit, it sips gas and very quiet. Once you narrow it down, I recommend searching youtube vids and watch the starting up procedure and actual running sounds of each unit your interested in for some comparisons before putting down the cash.
   

    -@vehicross100

We can get by on a whole house generator of 7KVA, electric start. Next time I buy it will be 10KA but 7JVA serves us well

Larry some input from this side, during the building stage I sized for exactly outages or typhoons and based on the essentials that you will need such as fridge, water pump if you have one, AC in Living room, Ac in bedroom, TV, Wi-Fi and things we normally forget such as a toaster, coffee machine, maybe microwave etc. Long story short I added a bout 15% to 20% to the load just not run on the edge, I Got a 7 KW generator silent (turn out not so silent) but it's in my utility room on the roof so not too bad the noise in the house.

Also remember keep the power factor correction in mind which is approx 20% which means that my 7 KW generator will deliver only 5.5 KVA and it is expensive to run not very efficient diesel consumption to KW ratio.

@aklokow

I suppose Andre when we look at sizing our invertors in a solar system is little different to sizing a generator but add on losses. Here running 10Kw of invertors would be like having a 14/15 KVA gen set or you with 8Kw invertor like a 12 Kva gen set. Add 25/30% to your projected needs. the most I've seen going through the invertors is around 6 to7Kw but that's running 4 A/C units and boiling the kettle as well as the normal stuff.

Like others have mentioned don't over or undersize. If the power goes out then simply run what you will need and size accordingly, save Pesos.

Cheers, Steve.

@aklokow Also remember keep the power factor correction in mind which is approx 20% which means that my 7 KW generator will deliver only 5.5 KVA and it is expensive to run not very efficient diesel consumption to KW ratio.

From my days in engineering school I seem to have a different take on this. Where the real power is stated in kW and S is the apparent power KVA in the equipment which includes both real power and imaginary (reactive) power, it appears that the reverse of what you say is true. If your PF correction is 20%, then your PF is 0.8. for a generator that handle 7KVA real plus reactive power, it will handle only 5.6KW real (resistive) power, which is probably the number you are looking for, steady state. P(kW) = S(kVA)*PF. I suspect your generator is 7KVA supporting approx.  5.6KW.

I had it with all these brownouts several years ago. I bought a Navigator 5000, rated 4500w....diesel, electric start with 12v battery on wheels. There are no "quiet" generators. Diesel is better, will last longer, more reliable starting. We have microwave, TV, Wifi, many outdoor lights, fans, 4 fridges, 2 freezers, 1/2hp water pumps and 1hp water pumps............not all pumps on at the same time. This generator is 5 years old, replaced battery 1 time, replaced throw rods 1 time. I don't use the 2hp aircon......only battery fans during brownouts.

Portable gasoline generators are lucky to last 5 years, diesel should go strong 7+ years. Keeping an eye on it, listening, looking for any leaks ...all is very important to avoid problems.

    I had it with all these brownouts several years ago. I bought a Navigator 5000, rated 4500w....diesel, electric start with 12v battery on wheels. There are no "quiet" generators. Diesel is better, will last longer, more reliable starting. We have microwave, TV, Wifi, many outdoor lights, fans, 4 fridges, 2 freezers, 1/2hp water pumps and 1hp water pumps............not all pumps on at the same time. This generator is 5 years old, replaced battery 1 time, replaced throw rods 1 time. I don't use the 2hp aircon......only battery fans during brownouts. Portable gasoline generators are lucky to last 5 years, diesel should go strong 7+ years. Keeping an eye on it, listening, looking for any leaks ...all is very important to avoid problems.        -@Gregorio2020

I am a bit puzzled; gasoline generators last 5 years only and you had to replace throw rods? First, pardon my ignorance but, although I know what it means to throw a rod in the engine, as an American used to only US terminology I have never heard of a "throw rod" but I am no mechanics and will assume you know what you are talking about. Who did the replacement? you? Where did you get replacement throw rods? And how can you say 5 years lifetime without defining percentage of on-time? My 7 KVA gas generator has lasted 5 years and still going strong with original rods (not thrown)  and even the original spark plug. I am on the 2nd battery but pull start isn't too bad if required. I have a Promate with Japanese engine and I always change oil with full synthetic. I wouldn't buy a generator brand that was said to last only 5 years and where the rods might need to be replaced within that period.

I'm curious also why a push rod replacement, generally a bent push rod is caused by over revving especially in a newer engine and seems/sounds like the engine has been pushed to the limit over the max. 4 refrigerators and 2 freezers even if invertor types will strain a 5 Kva gen set, throw a 1 Hp water pump with an induction motor into the mix is asking for trouble then throw on the microwave and another 600 to 1,000 watts depending on size. Saying all that I think we have had our 5.5Kva gen set 2 years now and probably clocked up 48/60 hours run time and looks brand new, we never overload it, try so stay under 4Kw with load and like Dan said our first oil change we put in fully synthetic oil.

For the loads you mention I would be considering minimum 8/10Kva as you need to consider max load, 3 or 4 of your fridges and freezers firing at the same time as well as running all the peripherals?

I had a 5Kva gen set in Australia for 25 years, pull start Honda for the construction industry and never missed a beat, oil changes only and a couple of spark plugs.

I suppose it's a lot like putting a 1HP A/C in a room that really needs 2HP, the 1HP A/C will run full tilt, not cool the room properly and wears out quickly. Undersized for the job.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl said . . . .I suppose it's a lot like putting a 1HP A/C in a room that really needs 2HP, the 1HP A/C will run full tilt, not cool the room properly and wears out quickly. Undersized for the job.

************************

When the third floor was added on to our house, our air conditioner was 1.5 hp, it was undersized and ran 24/7 for five years.

Two months ago we replaced it with a 2.5 hp. My electric bill dropped 20% the first month.

@Enzyte Bob

how much are 2.5 cost to buy

Bent or broken push rods are most often caused by sticking a valve, or bending one. Sticking a valve can happen by something as simple as a small screw in screw in a carburetor coming loose and getting sucked into the intake valve and BAM! Top end rebuild time. Head, valves pushrods if lucky, Hole in piston, scraped cylinders, junk in bottom end if not lucky.

Now this is all from experience rebuilding Harley Davidson motors 30 yrs ago, but the principle is the same.

Something has to actually happen to make the push rod stop moving back and forth while it's still under rotational pressure from the cam lobes, chain, whatever. They generally don't just break.

Also an over working engine will get hot and valve guides which are only pressed in can dislodge and restrict the valve travel. Something has to give.

Agree Larry the last thing you want lurking around in your engine whether top or bottom end is a screw or bolt.

Off topic But the SL Merc we had in Oz would only rev to 4,000 if in neutral and not under load so governed but out on the road driving would easily hit 6,000 RPM, protection I suppose.

Back to generators My best friend in Oz simply purchased a Honda EU2200i and they are quiet but for he and his lady it was for running the fridge freezer his computer and internet (work at home accountant) and a few lights. That's all they needed to run and sized accordingly as not many outages there.

I think you get the idea Larry with sizing given input from members and your own needs, let us know what you decide on.

Cheers, Steve.

renegadesric529 asked me: how much are 2.5 cost to buy

***********************

Model: (Kolin) KAG-250WCINV 2.5 HP Window Air Conditioner

I bought it from Anson's Home Appliance

List Price: P47,695

Online Price: P41,395

I purchase when it was an online sales price of P35,900
   

@Moon Dog

Thanks for that sir.

I'm just commenting on my own experiences......there are 2 throw rods....1 of them got a little deformed on the end....a local mechanic determined. I bought 2 more through Lazada...approx P150.....easy to install....generator up and running with no problems. Listening  and general maintenance are the key. IF you maintain ANY equipment, it will last longer. Most people DON"T......that is just asking for problems. You don't have to be a mechanic, do some research on YouTube...just use basic common sense......take time to take care of your equipment. By the way, gasoline products do have greater horse power, but will NEVER outlast a diesel....which doesn't have issues with spark plugs, carburetor, fuel lines.....and the dirty gasoline that is sold here in the Philippines. Brownouts occur almost weekly, mostly 2-3 hours, but occasionally 8 hours for a scheduled brownout. ...I have been very satisfied with this generator.....and hope it will keep on ticking for a long time. Having said all this.......please remember, we live in the Philippines, where most products are substandard............and your purchases are like a crap shoot......maybe you get a good product and maybe you get a lemon.....Good Luck.

You speak as an expert but insist there is such a part for generators as a throw rod. You said

".there are 2 throw rods....1 of them got a little deformed on the end....a local mechanic determined. I bought 2 more through Lazada...approx P150.....easy to install....generator up and running with no problems"

The term "throw" is a verb as in to throw a rod. When used as an adjective as "I replaced a throw rod", now you are referring to something that doesn't exist. You can determine that with a simple Google check. As for Lazada carrying replacement (fictional) throw rods, that is pure BS. The closest thing I can find is the double throw switch (a transfer switch) that, being a generator expert, I know you must be using for safety purposes, however that is something completely different external to the generator. However, your insistence that this fictional part actually exists tells me you do not know WTH you are talking about regarding generators

@danfinn He is probably talking about push rods. A single cylinder overhead valve engine will have two push rods. If you look up "push rods" on Lazada you will find a bunch in the P150 price range he spoke of. Push rods seldom fail so if one was "a little deformed on the end" I would guess it was a factory defect.

    @danfinn He is probably talking about push rods. A single cylinder overhead valve engine will have two push rods. If you look up "push rods" on Lazada you will find a bunch in the P150 price range he spoke of. Push rods seldom fail so if one was "a little deformed on the end" I would guess it was a factory defect.
   

    -@Moon Dog

Thanks. That is what I suspected, however he would not back down and insisted it was "throw rods" and then gave us expert advice on throw rod replacement for generators in the Philippines. "Oh Lord it is hard to be humble, when you're perfect in e-ver-ee way". 😂

Twas a good Song Dan and matters little how you sing it, He is not an expert as a mechanic was involved and simply think was relating his experience in an open forum and only sharing and I'm sure he knows the song.

Cheers, Steve.

@danfinn That may have been the term the mechanic used. It is like the term "brown out" I've heard so much in reference to power interruptions. When I was stationed in Korea back in the 70s we had brown outs. In the evening when the clubs in the village started up and everyone turned on a light or two the voltage would drop until TVs would no longer work. That was a brown out. When the power goes to zero that is a black out, but Filipinos use the term brown out. My nephew was trying to get across to me the part he needed for his bicycle. It turned out to be an innertube but I forget what his term for it was.

    Twas a good Song Dan and matters little how you sing it, He is not an expert as a mechanic was involved and simply think was relating his experience in an open forum and only sharing and I'm sure he knows the song.
Cheers, Steve.
   

    -@bigpearl

Steve, after discussing with him twice I am pretty sure he will describe it again as a throw rod lol (I may be wrong).

    Twas a good Song Dan and matters little how you sing it, He is not an expert as a mechanic was involved and simply think was relating his experience in an open forum and only sharing and I'm sure he knows the song.
Cheers, Steve.
   

    -@bigpearl

Steve, after discussing with him twice I am pretty sure he will describe it again as a throw rod lol (I may be wrong).

If there were 2 @ p150 and easily installed, my guess would be the two brushes, regardless of what one calls them. Cheap and easily to replace, but if they bad, no juice...

Hear you Dan but throw rod/push rod bent in an engine is nasty and I knew what he meant, his terminology and maybe not the correct terminology and laugh now as brushes have come into the equation, with oil or without sir?

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl. Hear you Dan but throw rod/push rod bent in an engine is nasty and I knew...

A thrown push rod would be a big problem. It happened to me once a very long time while driving my moped, the only vehicle I could afford as a student. A Honda 50, Japanese. But I did push it pretty hard. Fortunately, after the engine died I could still pedal home in bicycle mode.

             Currently we have not had a blackout here in Santa since we got back from Baguio, over 4 weeks ago.  Longest I was ever here without a blackout, not needing a generator these days.  Usually they have planned 9 AM to 4:30 PM blackouts periodically for maintenance purposes.  I am guessing by mentioning this we will have one in the next few days.