My solar experience - in a video - because no one reads so much text

Hi Wellsfry,

See report # 15 on this thread as it gives all the gory details.

I procrastinated for a long time over this system for many years, for 2 plus years our supply was pretty stable aside from the scheduled outings 2 or 3 times a year but the last 18 months the random drop outs 2/3 times a week and the planned outages are now 8 to 12 hours on the day and are now 6/7 times a year, pushed us over the edge to invest the bucks as well as reducing our emissions.

We could have invested in a smaller system at half the cost but we decided to go whole hog so we can run the 2 big A/C units through the day, never (We hope) ever get a power bill again, be as little more self sufficient and in control. BTW we shut Luelco off at the main breaker also.

It's not even 7am and we are now pumping in around 2Kw, charging the batteries and house consumption, looking like I went overkill with an 11.4Kwh solar array, perhaps I didn't need the 2 extra panels, early days yet.

The investment was 1.4M Pesos and given the ROI with our current power bill would take some 12/13 years to recoup but oversized so we can be pigs with power through the day, extra aircon etc. my figures indicate a 6/7 year ROI.

Cheers, Steve.

@Wellsfry

Sorry forgot to say that my location is La Union on Luzon.

I have noticed that these solar panels seem to be a hell of a lot more efficient than the ones we installed in Australia 10 years ago, @ 7:10am here we are producing nearly 3Kwh and remember our panels are 14 east and 14 west, not the best design, very confident now we can crank up extra A/C's and not worry about consumption. Long term investment as well as planet friendly.

Cheers, Steve.

Update on our system.

Making too much power, the system throttles back by 11/11:30am even running 2 A/C units. Our power bill yesterday was 2.8 pesos (fixed meter charge) and no power used. Will be funny when Ben pays the bill today with 3 pesos and keep the change.

Not going to be a problem running more A/C through the day once all the building works are finished.

Happy camper here.

Cheers, Steve.

HAHAHA. Well it wasn't funny when Ben tried to pay them 3 Pesos for the bill. He got grilled by the cashier who then went and got the manager and was grilled further, 2 phone calls, one to the meter reader, yes sir they have solar, next call was to the installers of the new bigger meter, yes sir they have solar. Back to Ben, how come you don't use power at night? because we have 40Kw of batteries, why are you not net metered? Because it was going to cost 140/150K to do that because you don't have smart meters like Australia and other thinking countries,,,,, the manager tried to rant on and Ben said "Sir I have other things to do, I simply came here to pay my bill and if you don't like my 3 pesos then disconnect us from your grid" manager walked away, the bill was paid.

I think the next cab of the rank will be them investigating/snooping around, time will tell. I'm sure we haven't seen the end of it as they lost 120K plus a year.

Cheers, Steve.

You can never have too much power ... Just like the folks that bought a 55" TV. After a week they all say "Should have gotten the 65" model". In cloudy and lower light conditions you will appreciate the extra capacity.

@bigpearl,

I'm undecided on solar. I obviously know long term it's cheaper. And certainly cleaner. There's a few things standing in my way (in my pea brain).

1. costs for everything are going down in terms of KW value. Inflation aside. As manufacturing goes up, per unit cost goes down. When does the sweet spot hit?
2. I probably don't have 10 years left on this planet. So my roi is minimal in expectation. However, it would be better long-term for my honey when I'm gone.
3. We need a new roof which I'm really putting off because of cost. It would make sense to install at that time, but that just means Mo-Money! heh
4. I have no idea how many KWh we need or panels/batteries. Our electric bill runs around 11k-12k per month. Knowing this would give me a better idea of how to estimate cost/return.

@Wingfat

I know the system I designed with my solar company and deliberate on our part to be self sufficient, no black outs, no carbon emissions, tried to sell excess power back to the grid but they tried to make our life difficult and very ridiculous fees and demands, a 4 to 6 month time frame all to give them 4Kw of power so they could give me 1Kw back, not in cash but a reduction on our bill. Did the sums and was more cost efficient to add another 20Kw of batteries,,,,, now Luelco are crying. Australia we have smart meters, connect to the existing lines and grid and guess what no charge and they give a 3 to 1 ratio in the form of a cash credit, here they wanted us to install new lines and conduits from the invertors that are mounted on a concrete slab in the garage and then a further 35 metres  to the pole so they can install net metering, 5 more metres of that is the concrete pump house. @ my costings of 140/150K to implement it was unviable. More than stupid even.

I remember when we had the meeting with the engineer 6 months ago when looking at net metering and he told us what we need to do/install, why I asked, that's what we need to install the extra meter,,, but why not use a smart meter, what is a smart meter sir? An engineer simply going off 30 year old technology. Explained to him what a smart meter is and he shook his head, never seen that, told him western countries have used that system for 20 years or more, no I don't know that product and that's the charges as outlined.

As said now they are bleating because we don't need/use their power.

Cheers, Steve.

@ Larry Fisher

Solar is an exact science and requires plenty of study for understanding needs and loads from the uneducated,,,,, like me. Yes the prices are dropping and the technology better every week.

Your bill is similar to ours, was 9 to 11K and if you aim to keep it that way then size your system accordingly, For us sure We spent P 1.4M to be self sufficient taking into account also running extra A/C units through the day. Our system throttles back by 10/11am and then wasted input. We use 25 to 30% of battery storage overnight and prior to me running the A/C in the office we were 100% full by 10/10:30am, now running the A/C in the office from 6am till 6 pm the batteries are fully charged an hour later.

ROI is important to consider given consumption v cost. The system we installed in Oz paid for itself in less than 2.5 years and then I was saving AU 2K per year, here it will be 6/7 years with no carbon footprint but also remember 8/10 years you will possibly be replacing batteries,,,,, the most expensive component and panels at 25/40 years. I/we did this for many reasons, save a few pesos, green (carbon emissions) and no black outs. Choice I suppose.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve

@Bigpearl, So you went overboard. Care to estimate how much overboard? Our AC units are smaller, 3/4hp and 1hp x 3. one is only used on the hottest days for a few afternoon hours. Two refrigerators, and probably a deep freezer in the future. Other than that, 1hp pump for shower water, water heater, and a couple tv's laptops.

Larry, if you are worried about the cost to replace your roof then the additional cost of solar is perhaps not for you, only you know your financial abilities.

All the figures for solar are here in this and other threads, as for us going overboard? That is ATM but there is a big picture and I will get to that later.

After the last typhoon tore off parts of the roof iron some years ago we replaced it. The old iron was corrugated 26# and nailed on, 13/14 years old, we replaced the whole lot with 24# colour bond decking and white roof screws that I had imported from Australia (can't buy here) so all up cost for 150M2 of roof iron/screws and installation was around P100K and since extensions another 180/200M2 that our workers installed another P120K so say 340M2 @ 220K = 650 pesos per m2.

Solar; Grid tied, stand alone, net metered. Each has their merits. Given say at your high side of P12K per month is 144K per year and an estimate based on that figure is you are consuming around 700Kwh per month,,,,, it's stated on your bill.

Solar arrays are 80/85% efficient based on a 5 hour max cycle so a 10Kw solar array will give you say 8.5Kw per hour x 5 = 42.5 Kwh per day. Currently you are using a little over 23Kwh per day. I sized our system to produce 45/50Kwh per day for daily usage as well as charging the batteries to 100% for over night consumption. Currently we are producing  38 to 42 Kwh per day but the system throttles back before midday so late morning we are putting in 7 to 9 Kw once the batteries are full it will drop back to 2/3 Kw. Wasted power and a grumpy power company.

I designed the system to run another 2.5HP A/C unit through the middle of the day and probably another 2HP unit, we will see.

Larry if you only plan to use solar through the day and your power company at night then size the system accordingly. Grid tied (for convenience) with batteries then size the system again. Remember a 5Kw invertor only gives you 32Amps or 7,000 watts. We went for 2 invertors linked and load sharing.

The storage batteries will cost around 60% of the outlay.

Sorry to waffle on but if you need to learn more ask or do more research online. Stand alone systems are not cheap and for us will be a 6/7 year ROI. Already counting the pesos @ 10K per month soon to be 15/18 maybe 20K per month.

Big decisions take time.

Good luck.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl

Hey Steve,

I see you reference another expat? site occasionally, last I saw was in your solar power thread. Are you able to share that site? Is there a lot of good info? Interested in many topics but especially solar power with battery backup in the Philippines.

Regards

@Dude55

Sent you a PM.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl - You cannot beat a 6 to 7 years to recover your investment on solar. I would be happy if I get a 10. When do you expect to replace the batteries? What % of the total cost are the batteries? How big of an area did the solar arrays take?

Hi Jackson, I have posted all the costs in previous posts here but to answer your questions.

40Kw of batteries were from memory P780/800K including VAT. They state they are good for 8,000 cycles and warrantied for 10 years, if the 8,000 cycles is true then they should last 21 years but of course there will be degradation as time goes on.

The panels are 2 x 1M and there are 28 so in theory 56M2 but with spacings allow say 60M2 and warrantied for 25 years. (11.4Kw)

Panels, 2 x 5Kw invertors, the linking kit that makes it a 64amp supply as well as load sharing on the batteries, the switchboard, cables and the installation another 600K.

Call me a pig but I sized the system to comfortably produce 40 to 45Kwh per day and I can see now we will hit 50+. yesterday was 42.8 and the batteries were fully charged by 1pm. The system throttled back from 7/8Kw input to 2/3. Waste of power.

The sums are easy it's wearing the costs over benefits you need to consider.

Sorry to go on but I looked at it this way/many ways. When connected to the grid  we would consume some P120/130K per year, if we wanted to stay like that we would have halved the whole system and costs and the ROI would be around 6 years. Doubling the size the ROI will be 6/7 years but gives me an extra 25/30Kwh per day, more than enough to run the big A/C (2.5 and 2HP units) in the living areas through the day, kitchen/living/dining @ 65/70M2. As a now retired old fart I like my comfort and I can afford the costs but in the end I will be making money, an investment, trying to remove my carbon footprint for my children and grandchildren as us baby boomers should think about.

The best thing Jackson is no more power outages. Usually 4/5 times a month now and I know because I hear the Mayors diesel generator fire up if I happen to venture outside then also notice all the houses are out. A treasure there alone.

Lots to think about before investing correctly.

Cheers, Steve.

Jackson4 replied to bigpearl. . . . You cannot beat a 6 to 7 years to recover your investment on solar. I would be happy if I get a 10. When do you expect to replace the batteries? What % of the total cost are the batteries? How big of an area did the solar arrays take?

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After reading posts about solar, I was thinking would solar it be right for me?

(1) Could I afford the cost of solar without diminishing the quality of my life now or in the future?

(2) Six or more years on return of investment, it would take me six or more years to break even.

(3) Would I till be alive in six or more years?

(4) Could I be moving in six or more years?

(5) One of my banks is offering 5 1/2% interest on CD's

(6) Would 5 1/2 % of the investment cost be a better return?

(7) ROI's will be reduced as solar improves, but inflation increases the cost at the same time, when would it be the proper time to buy?

Exactly right Bob. Initial cost may affect someone's current lifestyle.

Appreciate your input Bob and valid points to consider. I will bullet point as you do.

1/ Only you can answer that, for me money/funds are not an issue but the investment is a big double edged sword and works in 3 ways. I will recoup my investment in 6/7 years which equals a 15 to 18% ROI per annum, not many investments offer those figures unless shonky.

2/ Yes Bob 6/7 years ROI, do the sums.

3/ Only your maker knows the answer to that the same as all souls on this earth.

4/Only you know the answer to that, sell and move the solar investment carries on with the property, makes it more desirable/adds value which comes back to ROI.

5/ 6/ The 5.5% investment is not 15/18% I have money invested in Australia getting 5 to 10% for me it was a no brainer if you think long term.

7/ Bob I have monitored solar prices here in PH. for 10 years and they have almost halved but could be even cheaper if the government here got off their derrieres and implemented carbon credits/tax incentives, lower import duties etc. but hey welcome to the Philippines.

The correct time to buy is when you are ready and have done your homework.

Australia was less than 2.5 years ROI, here it's 5 to 8 years depending on your design/needs. If this government simply dropped the VAT @ 12% on solar installations that would have saved me nearly P170K.

Regardless we don't get an electricity bill, my bad 3 pesos. We don't suffer black outs and I can run all the A/C's I want and no bill. Better to put your money into solar or wisely purchased property for the long term as opposed to buying a new car every 4/5 years to only lose half your money.

Bob what is your electrical bill and how much can you afford to spend then save.

Cheers, Steve.

    Exactly right Bob. Initial cost may affect someone's current lifestyle.
   

    -@Jackson4

We all live within our means.

Cheers, Steve.

Good discussion.

One of the consideration in making your decision is environmental.  If you are environmentally- or socially-driven, all kinds of other factors enter the equation.  Are the batteries using rare earth elements mined by slave labor?

Batteries, to me, are not a good investment.  Our electrical demand peaks along with the rising sun.  Overnight demands are low.  For me, reducing my bill to $40 a month is enough of an objective.  To be fully honest, I just want to get the bill down to a level that my asawa can support (with my spousal pension) once I’m gone.  (I’m 66, she’s 52.)  And electricity here through the co-op is much less than Meralco.  About p6.25 / kWh all-in.

I did include a manual transfer switch, however, for those day-long power outages and the odd typhoon.  We may not be able to run all the aircon at once, but a 5kW generator is a small investment compared to a battery storage system.

Stef

Power outtages here in Zamboanga del Norte have always been 2 to 3 a week some scheduled for all day. the ones that that pushed me over the edge were the late evening and into the night ones. All that scrambling for the battery light around the family compound and i never thought it was right to impose our generator on the neighbors in the evening. I’ll just add we have 32 x 400 watt panels 30 kWh of batteries with 2 x 6,500  watt capacity inverters . set up the same as bigpearl. We have a resort so when there are guests in the two rooms we’ll flip the Zaneco switch for an hour. I charge my Electric car between 8:30 and 2:30 for two days and its good for two weeks and ever a problem for the system. our bill was 9,500 php, but all the bill around here since gone down, ive heard because they’ve connected n under sea power line from Negros (not verified).

it’s debatable but after all the manufacturing, mining and transportation energy required I personally don’t think there is much of a net carbon neutral argument to be made for solar. I’ve had it for 2 years and i couldnt live here without it. My wife hated me for a week after they installed the batteries and inverters in her living room, now she loves them more than me.

Great input Stef and a perspective that I can see/appreciate. Our 5.5Kw Honda generator is up for sale, switching over to the grid is far cheaper than unleaded. Having a decent sized battery system wins the day.

As for rare earth minerals and slave labour I agree but is that any different to diamond mines or sweat shops? The sex trade? Politicians taking the piss? Slave labour is a world wide problem starting at the top.

Our Luelco power here is twice the price that you are paying and if it was the same here I would not go stand alone as it would take 15 years to recoup the difference. We all need to run the figures to work out the best scenario to suit our lives.

Here the locals in the back burn all their plastics adding to the world problems, we take our own bags and reusable to the market/supermarket and rarely purchase anything wrapped in plastic. our choice.

Stef, our bill is less than P3 per month (meter charge) and no black outs, not nice waking up at 2am sweating because the power went out, not happening now. May haps your power supplier is reliable, not here these days, was stable 5 years ago.

While I agree with your point on slave labour one simply has to look at who the slaves are. The western world, Most countries are slaves to crude oil and natural gas as well as biproducts, a conditioned environment to simply make trillions of bucks, where are our grandchildren going to land? They in history will blame us baby boomers for raping and pillaging the natural resources to their detriment and if we don't act that's going to be their future.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.   

bigpearl asked. . . . Bob what is your electrical bill and how much can you afford to spend then save.

************************

(1) My last bill from Meralco was P11764.41

(2) I cannot afford to dip any further into my savings.

(3) I'm old enough to be the father of some retired Expats. I don't expect to live beyond any R.O.I.

(4) Environment?

Drill Baby Drill,

Has anyone realized? When we run out of oil for energy, the environment will improve.

Drill Baby Drill

@Michaelm54

Love it and enjoy.

Cheers, Steve.

    bigpearl asked. . . . Bob what is your electrical bill and how much can you afford to spend then save.
************************
(1) My last bill from Meralco was P11764.41
(2) I cannot afford to dip any further into my savings.
(3) I'm old enough to be the father of some retired Expats. I don't expect to live beyond any R.O.I.
(4) Environment?
Drill Baby Drill,
Has anyone realized? When we run out of oil for energy, the environment will improve.
Drill Baby Drill
   

    -@Enzyte Bob

Interesting synopsis Bob.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl  I agree with you 100%.  Spot-on! 

I am on my 3rd deployment.... Kuwait, Iraq, Syria....   Everything we are doing here is for oil...

I see the massive oil refineries in Kuwait everyday on my way to work (Camp Afrijan) .... and I think.... they WILL runout of oil in the not-to-distant future  ... then Kuwait will be brought to it's knees.  Everybody here has money but that won't last.  Oil is Finite... that means its not renewable.... when is done... its done.  With all the CO2 in the atmosphere we may not be here either. 

I plan on retiring in the Philippines in July of next year.  My wife and I bought land and are getting ready to build.

    @bigpearl  I agree with you 100%.  Spot-on!
   

    -@Daniel Reed54

Sorry to seem ignorant but what are you agreeing with Daniel?

BTW welcome to the forum.

Cheers, Steve.

Oh Sorry... I read your post.... I should have referenced it.  Just in general .... about solar and trying to leave a better planet for our children .... my generation will NOT be judged kindly by future generations due to our disregard for the environment.   As I said I am on my 3rd deployment and I see a very bad world everyday.  One thing I will miss when I move the Philippines is our US National Parks and National Forests. 

And Yes.... we are putting solar on our new house.... for a variety of reasons... as you have stated.

@Daniel Reed

Even I am an Aussie I thank you for your service.

When I was young and ignorant/stupid there was never a thought to the abuse at all levels what we were doing to this our world, the only one we have. We simply took, a never ending supply but now?

I see my kids at 34 and 28 never owning a home, battling day by day the world we created for them through greed and ignorance, now they will try to pick up the pieces.

As for your national parks and beauty and I have been to a few in the States, you will find plenty in the Philippines to keep you busy. A tiny country but beauty abounds as well as plenty of other crap no different to all countries.

Good luck with your move.

Cheers, Steve.

Oil is the largest source of CO2 (33%) other sources produce twice as much.

Total of "ALL" sources of CO2

#1 China produces 10.4 Billion metric tons of CO2

#2 USA produces 5.0 Billion metric tons of CO2

#1 through #10 produces 30 Billion metric tons of CO2

*****************************************

As first world countries are reducing their carbon imprint, emerging economies are increasing their global carbon imprint.

In the future if first world countries reduced their emissions to Zero, there will be no reduction of CO2 as emerging countries will fill the void of this reduction.

*******************************************

Nuclear power for reduced CO2 emissions.

There are 160 nuclear powered ships and in addition there are 441 operable nuclear power plants world wide. Nuclear power produces 10% of the worlds electricity. The peak of nuclear generation in the US was 20% in the 1990's and has been on the decline as older plants are taken off line without replacement.

France produces 68.3% of their electric by nuclear plants.

@Enzyte Bob, not sure what figures you are stating to arrive @ #10 producing 30 billion tons.

Emerging countries are also trying to limit their Co2 footprint, it has to start somewhere and as first world countries seem to be the biggest culprits it's on us to set examples for the rest of the world.

A good start would be getting rid of cows, no more beef, no milk as cows are screwing up the environment with copious amounts of methane which is far worse than Co2.

Agree, nuclear power if properly managed is a great help to our environment, the do Gooders always seem to have the loudest voice but won't put a solar panel on their home because they are expensive.

Based on our current input from solar @ P500 per day = 182,500 per year savings or ROI on P1.4M = 7.7 years.

When we crank up the rest of the house (if it ever gets finished, gone on for too long) I expect 6/700 pesos per day, say @ 600per day = P219K or a 6.4 year ROI. @ 700 per day = 5.5 years ROI.

It gets better, one house, ours here is reducing Co2 emissions by 900Kg per month or equivalent to planting 170 trees per month.

I can't afford a nuclear power plant but we are trying to do our bit for the generations that follow.

Cheers, Steve.   

@bigpearl

Thx

bigpearl said to me. . . .Enzyte Bob, not sure what figures you are stating to arrive @ #10 producing 30 billion tons.

A good start would be getting rid of cows, no more beef, no milk as cows are screwing up the environment with copious amounts of methane which is far worse than Co2.

*********************

That's #1 through #10 combined for 30 Billion.

A win-win situation is to put a rubber hose up the rear end of those cows and heat poor peoples houses with the methane gas.

Green House gas gets a bad reputation.

.

(1) Green House gas helps maintain Earths habitable temperature.

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(2) With out Green House gas the Earths average temperature would be -18C or -.4F

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(3) Green House gas supports plant growth.

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(4) Green House gas protects Earth from the Suns harmful UV.

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(5) Water Vapor is a significant Green House gas, leads to cloud formation for distribution of water.

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Thank you Google

@Enzyte Bob

Yes so true Bob but too much? I suppose it matters little individual beliefs where the world is heading.

My primary reason was to try to reduce my footprint, currently looking at the figures so far we will reduce 12/14 tons of Co2 per year so it's definitely going to take a lot of like minded people to help make a difference.

Secondary and just as important was to invest spare money that was earning 5% in the bank and turn it into 15/18% per Annum, adding value to the property and the bonus of no black outs from an unreliable grid.

No more P10/11K bills and when in a couple of months when we crank up the rest of the house (another 150M2) My like your fuzzy math shows that the monthly grid cost would be P20+K per month so saving 240K per year minimum and this system is sized accordingly.

Each to their own and all input is appreciated.

Cheers, Steve.