US Cuts HU Visa-Free Entries

    A few months ago, America started to limit visa-free entries by Hungarians. It's long been concerned about the somewhat willy-nilly way Hungarian passports have been handed out under Simplified Naturalization.
The details aren't too relevant here -- they're in the link below -- but what is relevant here is whether Hungary might impose any reciprocal limits on Americans.

Have there been any suggestions that it might?

(This of course comes on the heels of the US cancelling its tax treaty with Hungary.)

https://hu.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/-@zif

Interesting.   I wonder if the Simplified Naturalisation is the real reason or if it's got other drivers.   And what is it really intended to achieve?

It doesn't seem that the conditions imposed are that onerous for native born Hungarians.  They are inconvenient for some born elsewhere but not a massive hill to climb. Of course, I am biased, I don't know any naturalised Hungarians.

My own USA ESTA is valid for 2 years.  It's a rubbish document anyway as I only use it to transit.  I've tried to avoid going via USA territory for years and up until a year ago, I managed to avoid it.  I used to try and go via Canada and that was somewhat better previously but now is rubbish too as they need their version, the ETA.  The Australian one is quite good - free for British citizens with rather good conditions - up to 6 month stay and multiple entry.  NZ I haven't got around to yet.

Anyway. my beef isn't with the ESTA per se, it's all wasted time in transit walking to get to a gate next to the one you arrived at because you have to deal with immigration, customs and the TSA.  And that's all because of the lack of a transit system at US airports.  Beyond my comprehension why they don't have transit arrangements. 

But if you were native Hungarian (and had a new post-1AUG23 ESTA) you couldn't transit twice like that on a trip to Canada because your new one-year ESTA would permit only one entry. You'd need a visa to transit on your return.

And given you in particular weren't born in Hungary, you'd actually no longer qualify for an ESTA and visa-free travel to the US on a Hungarian passport.

US concerns about Hungarian passports aren't new; they go back to the Obama years. But the poor relations between the Biden administration and OV no doubt make it easier for these steps to be taken.

    But if you were native Hungarian (and had a new post-1AUG23 ESTA) you couldn't transit twice like that on a trip to Canada because your new one-year ESTA would permit only one entry. You'd need a visa to transit on your return.And given you in particular weren't born in Hungary, you'd actually no longer qualify for an ESTA and visa-free travel to the US on a Hungarian passport.US concerns about Hungarian passports aren't new; they go back to the Obama years. But the poor relations between the Biden administration and OV no doubt make it easier for these steps to be taken.        -@zif

Yes, the return journey would be impossible.   Makes you wonder what is going on.  I suppose Biden and OVs poor relations are coming out as inconvenience rather than outright sanctions etc against an EU country.  I expect more isolation will follow for OV.  No-one talks to him at recent EU summits anyway - apart from the German chancellor.

Even though I am eligible for the VWP, I should have said my US transit avoidance strategy is usually because I'm going to the Caribbean or to Asia Pacific countries. I have  no reason to go via the USA for anything at all.   Canada is quite reasonable for DIRECT connections into the Caribbean from Europe depending on which island one is going to. However, more recently Canada has become quite miserable and unfriendly - presumably because of the USA's insistence on stronger security.

My main thing  recently is to avoid flights that have unadvertised stops in places like Miami.  British Airways do that so best to find real direct non-stop flights.  There's always the chance of being diverted which could be quite a miserable experience without the right paperwork.

As to why there's no immigration-free transit between international flights in the US, most airports aren't physically set-up to segregate international transit passengers. Everyone gets funneled to immigration, baggage claim and customs.

    As to why there's no immigration-free transit between international flights in the US, most airports aren't physically set-up to segregate international transit passengers. Everyone gets funneled to immigration, baggage claim and customs.
   

    -@zif

That's a fact for sure.

But doesn't explain why everyone else worldwide can do transit but the USA is not capable or doesn't want to do it.  When they built US airports or modernised them, they could have easily designed it in. Just puts people off. It's not a stretch to say TSA and CBP are universally hated by transit passengers. 

I asked Mrs Fluffy if she cared about the changes to the US VWP and ESTA for HU passport holders and she said no-one she knows would give two hoots about it. 

But I can imagine mobile HU elites being annoyed about it.  Maybe that's what it's really about.

    As to why there's no immigration-free transit between international flights in the US, most airports aren't physically set-up to segregate international transit passengers. Everyone gets funneled to immigration, baggage claim and customs.
   

    -@zif

That's a fact for sure.

But doesn't explain why everyone else worldwide can do transit but the USA is not capable or doesn't want to do it.  When they built US airports or modernised them, they could have easily designed it in. Just puts people off. It's not a stretch to say TSA and CBP are universally hated by transit passengers. 

I asked Mrs Fluffy if she cared about the changes to the US VWP and ESTA for HU passport holders and she said no-one she knows would give two hoots about it. 

But I can imagine mobile HU elites being annoyed about it.  Maybe that's what it's really about.

I haven't looked into it, but there may also be a legal requirement that everyone landing in the US undergo immigration clearance.

I don't understand why they are concerned with this, while they keep the southern border open to everyone.

The only plausible reason is political IMHO.

    I haven't looked into it, but there may also be a legal requirement that everyone landing in the US undergo immigration clearance.
   

    -@zif

Ok, but what's it for? 

They already know everything though the API - passport number, arrival airport, transit airports, names, DOBs etc and blah-blah.

What's the point in wasting everyone's time queueing up for transit?

It's demonstrating jurisdiction over anyone physically present in the US.

Other than that, we're moving into "Why isn't the moon made of green cheese" territory.

    It's demonstrating jurisdiction over anyone physically present in the US.
Other than that, we're moving into "Why isn't the moon made of green cheese" territory.
   

    -@zif

Green cheese means something is wrong.

Just never understood the policy.   Transit is an efficiency measure to get people through the system, especially those just passing through.  They can tell the passenger left.

I did read a very long time ago that everyone entering US territory is considered an immigrant so passing immigration establishes that the passenger is not actually an immigrant but someone in transit.  It's weird logic and even arrogant but that's what it said.  Bit like those looney forms asking if you're a terrorist or a drug smuggler.  Like those guys are going to say yeah to those questions.

    A few months ago, America started to limit visa-free entries by Hungarians. It's long been concerned about the somewhat willy-nilly way Hungarian passports have been handed out under Simplified Naturalization.
The details aren't too relevant here -- they're in the link below -- but what is relevant here is whether Hungary might impose any reciprocal limits on Americans.

Have there been any suggestions that it might?

(This of course comes on the heels of the US cancelling its tax treaty with Hungary.)

https://hu.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/-@zif

Simplified Naturalization just an excuse for the current US administration.

Mostly who get citizenship by that already an EU citizen + people from Serbia/ Ukraine or some descendants of 1956 refugees even from the USA itself.

Security considerations nonsense anyway as the way from the south US open for all even without any papers.

I agree the US S. Boarder is a joke, a joke on the US tax payers.

I looked into how to qualify for a resident permit into Mexico.

Well, it is a one way st. They have some strict guidelines to get a permit.

You can either be a none stop tourist entering and leaving every 180 days or have an income of slightly over $3,000 a person each month or have a min. of a steady bank balance of slightly over $51,000 USD per person that is kept there at all times.

It is not like you can just enter Mexico and drop a baby and have the Mexican gov. pay your way forever and a year.

Hi, All.  Interesting topics and ideas being thrown around.  But no one seems to have mentioned the fact that Orban is more than cozy with Russia despite the Ukraine "training exercises" now going on for almost 2 years. Also, PM Orban has been cozying up to China and their lucrative business propositions and thus, this too could be the discord between Hungary and the Biden administration.  The situation in Hungary is a bit more complex than the U.S. southern border situation.  Just calling out the elephant in the room.  Follow the money...  Bottom line, the quotation at the foot of the Statue of Liberty died after Eisenhower (a Republican, I might add) permitted ten of thousands of Hungarians in 1956, WITHOUT ANY PAPERS, like my parents, and created papers for them.   

The quotation by Emma Lazarus reads,

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore." 

@ljcooke64

If Trump will be elected the relationship to Hungary will change. it would be positive. Lets  hope it will happen.