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WARNING: Need correct stamp for POA

Last activity 28 July 2024 by Nomad Mundo

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mikehunter

Went to the PF with my friend who has my POA to obtain my CRNM in my absence to check to see if my CRNM had arrived (it has not).  While there, decided to test the POA and found that it had been stamped with “por semelanca” which apparently means that your signature was not witnessed by the carterio.  For the PF to accept your POA (and probably any other entity here in Brasil) it needs to be stamped with “Reconheco, como autenticas”. 


My Brasilian friend wasn’t happy either, it was a WTF moment. 


Anyway, we rushed back to the Carterio and had to resign the form (witnessed yet again by the Carterio) and get the other stamp and pay yet another fee.


The clerk told my friend that you have to specificially request the special stamp and pay the extra fee even though the process done by us (appearing in person, with our documents and signing the document in the presence of the carterio) was exactly the same.


So now the POA has two signatures from each of us and three stamps from the carterio.  I hope we don’t need any more becase there isn’t any more room on the paper. Looks extremely official however, LOL.


We were both shaking our heads and just happy we double checked things with the PF to make sure we had what we needed when I wasn’t here.


To my knowledge this is much different from the US where the usually the Notary Public always witnesses the signature and attests to the same.  Apparently here, the carterio witnesses the signature, but doesn’t attest to saying they witnessed the signature unless you specifically ask for it and pay the extra fee.

mikehunter

Here is a sample POA: 

Modify the data within the brackets, e.g. [Your text Here]

Any documents that you reference for identification purposes need to be available to be shown to the notary

so they can attest that they have witnessed them.


                                   PROCURAÇÃO POR INSTRUMENTO PARTICULAR


Por meio do presente instrumento particular de procuração, [Your Name Here],

nacionalidade: [Norte Americano], [solteiro], profissão: [aposentado], Carteira de Registro

Nacional Migratório (CRNM) n. [X000000-0], CPF n. [999.999.999-99], Passaporte [EUA] n.

[999999999], e-mail: [email@mail.com], residente em: [Full Address Here]


Doravante denominado OUTORGANTE, nomeia e constitui seu bastante procurador

[POA Name Here], nacionalidade: [Brasilero], [solteiro], profissão:

[Profession], Carteira de Identidade (RG) n. [9.999.999-9], CPF n. 999.999.999-99, residente

em: [Full Address Here]


Doravante denominado OUTORGADO, a quem concede plenos poderes para que, em sua

nome, pratique todos os atos convenientes e necessários, com o objectivo de: Representar

o OUTORGANTE perante o órgão competente da Polícia Federal, para solicitar e retirar sua

Carteira de Registro Nacional Migratório (CRNM).


A validade da presente procuração estende-se do momento de sua assinatura até a

conclusão pelo OUTORGADO da missão que lhe foi confiada.


[City, State e.g. Sao Paulo, SP] - [Date, e.g. 14 Maio 2024]

(Local e data de assinatura)



<<<<<<<< YOU SIGN HERE witnessed by the notary >>>>>>>>

...........................................................................................................................

[Your name Here]

OUTORGANTE

CPF: [999.999.999-99] / RNM: [X999999-1] / PASSPORTE [EUA]: [99999999]



<<<<<<<<<< POA SIGNS HERE witnessed by the notary >>>>>>>>>>>>>

...........................................................................................................................

[POA Name Here]

OUTORGADO

CPF: [999.999.999-99] / RG: [9.999.999-9]

mikehunter

One additional thing... whomever is acting as your POA, tell them to make a copy of their identification used above (both sides) and have them take it with the POA to the PF.  Why?  After your POA shows their ID, the PF will ask for a copy of the form for their records (apparently they don't want to use their own copy machines).  If you don't have a copy, they will send you across the street (this is for the SP PF), and have you pay an inflated price for a copy.  Be prepared and have it ready.

LegalWingman

@mikehunter


insightful information Mike. Would the process differ if i choose an online POA rather than appearing at the Cartorio?

mikehunter

@LegalWingman I'm not familiar with an "online POA".  From my experience the PF loves paper and lots of it.  Hence, (at least in SP) they insist that your POA provide a copy of their ID (see comment above).  I would stick with providing them a paper POA with the correct stamp.  I know from experience that works.

Nomad Mundo

@mikehunter/@LegalWingman

https://www.26notas.com.br/novidades/co … cao-online

As you can see above, POA is entirely ordered and executed in online system and the grantee may print it out physically and present it to PF with the copy of your and his id.

It's a legalized and valid document under the legal basis for the power of attorney signed electronically by means of a certificate is Provisional Measure No. 2,200-2/2001. The standard established the Brazilian Public Key Infrastructure (ICP-Brasil) to guarantee the integrity, authenticity and legal validity of electronic documents and applications that use digital certificates.

Note: POA must be Power of attorney by public instrument *Procuração Pública* to be presented in physical form alongside two parties IDs.


In case PF denied your request to release the card with POA, you can always ask for Letter of Justification (Carta de Justificativa). Instead of this letter, the PF agent will give your card to the POA presenter.

Peter Itamaraca

I believe a digital signature through gov,br is only available to Brazilians or foreigners who already have a permanent visa, not those applying for a permanent visa. So the only option may be a public POA made in a Notary Office?

Nomad Mundo

@Peter Itamaraca


The digital signature through gov,br won't be acceptable and valid for POA we are talking about.


I'm talking about digital signature and notarial acts through the *e-notriado* used by majority of Cartório now for people who aren't available for visiting. It has rebust verification and processing capacity which is why it's legal and can't be denied for acceptance without relevant legal justification, PF or other other federal agency for that matter. Denial to accept will impose administrative and punitive sanctions and compensation if the applicant wishes to sue the public agent in whatever capacity.

mikehunter

@Nomad Mundo Thanks for the link.  Very interesting.  Seems like quite an involved procedure IMO rather than a quick trip to the carterio.  However, if you are remote and don't have any choice, it's nice to have the option.

Nomad Mundo

@mikehunter


I certainly agree with you that PF agents are incredibly vehement for physical documentation, and it is barely happening that you present these POAs and they accept graciously.


Last year, I had to intervene for my friend and explain the legality of the POA to a *Jovens* agent. Nevertheless you shouldn't anticipate a lot more from these high school kids that work at the delivery desks in the majority of PF offices. These are typically internship/short-term contract workers who do not have adequate training to work with these documents.1f60e.svg

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