How to navigate this tricky situation for my PR application?

From what I understand, you did not receive a termination letter yet. Correct?

if so, you should check your employment contract for the termination notice period. I am quite sure you will still have your job in December!

But if a failing company is not issuing the employment certificate (which by right they must), your only options are sueing them for it, or proving your employment status to the foreigner office by other means - contact them, explain the situation clearly (maybe with some proof that the company is failing) and ask what you can do.

And, of course, immediately start looking for another job!

From what I understand, you did not receive a termination letter yet. Correct?if so, you should check your employment contract for the termination notice period. I am quite sure you will still have your job in December!But if a failing company is not issuing the employment certificate (which by right they must), your only options are during them for it, or proving your employment status to the foreigner office by other means - contact them, explain the situation clearly (maybe with some proof that the company is failing) and ask what you can do.And, of course, immediately start looking for another job! -@beppi

No, I have not received a termination letter yet. It's strange because you would think that the notice period would be at least 3 months but maybe not, I will check what my contract says. My former colleague claims that people now have legal issues because of the company and that some received deportation threats but I've gotten none of that so far.

A company cannot deport anyone - such threats are just nonsense.

When a company is bancrupt, an insolvency manager (usually a lawyer) is appointed by the court. He/she must then wind down operations in an orderly manner - and the rights of employees feature higher here than that of debtors.

The whole story might just be a panic overreaction by your colleages, which you should not participate in.

A company cannot deport anyone - such threats are just nonsense.When a company is bancrupt, an insolvency manager (usually a lawyer) is appointed by the court. He/she must then wind down operations in an orderly manner - and the rights employees feature higher here than that of debtors.The whole story might just be a panic overreaction by your colleages, which you should not participate in. -@beppi

No not the company, from what I understood the threats came from the German government to my coworkers. And the company is not going bankrupt, it is simply being shut down by the German government because it has ties to Russia.

Oh, that of course is an entirely different situation (and so rare that I didn't think of it):

So you were part of an illegally acting organisation that is shut down by the authorities (not the government).

In that case, of course, deportation is possible (same as with other criminal activities).

You should quickly engage a good lawyer to advice on your options, what your rights are and how to defend you against any accusations of being a criminal.

Losing an ongoing PR applcation (or your job) is the least of your worries now!

Oh, that of course is an entirely different situation (and so rare that I didn't think of it):So you were part of an illegally acting orgaisation that is shut down by the authorities (not the government).In that case, of course, deportation is possible (same as with other criminal activities).You should quickly engage a good lawyer to advice on your options, what your rights are and how to defend you against any accusations of being a criminal.Losing an ongoing PR applcation (or your job) is the least of your worries now! -@beppi

I wasn't part of an illegally acting organisation, I was (still am) part of a company that has ties to the Russian government and that is why it is shutting down now. Before the beginning of the war in Ukraine, my company posed no issues to the German government. I myself do not have ties with the Russian government at all but some in the company do. I was not threatened with deportation and I already have a lawyer.

@Trabantlover Germany is governed by laws, regulations and a functioning legal system, not arbitrariness. The authorities can only shut down a company after extensive illegal activities and as a last resort. Dealing with Russia was not illegal before the war, but many aspects are illegal now (due to sanctions) - the company must have continued them nevertheless and ignored warnings and fines, otherwise such a drastic measure would not be approved by the courts.

You seem to take this lightly, but everyone being part of such an organisation is a suspect - you can become criminal by doing things unknowingly, or by just knowing about but not reporting it.

I really recommend a good criminal lawyer now (not just one for immigration, which is a topic you should deal with after the big matter is cleared!).

And all the above is apart from the moral aspect: Dealing with the Russian government under the current circumstances is despiccable!

@Trabantlover Germany is governed by laws, regulations and a functioning legal system, not arbitrariness. The authorities can only shut down a company after extensive illegal activities and as a last resort. Dealing with Russia was not illegal before the war, but many aspects are illegal now (due to sanctions) - the company must have continued them nevertheless and ignored warnings and fines, otherwise such a drastic measure would not be approved by the courts.You seem to take this lightly, but everyone being part of such an organisation is a suspect - you can become criminal by doing things unknowingly, or by just knowing about but not reporting it.I really recommend a good criminal lawyer now (not just one for immigration, which is a topic you should deal with after the big matter is cleared!).And all the above is apart from the moral aspect: Dealing with the Russian government under the current circumstances is despiccable! -@beppi

I am not responsible for what some people within the company did, I myself have done nothing illegal.

The situation described is so specialized and uncommon that it’s doubtful you’ll find anyone here with firsthand knowledge. From what I read you are merely speculating if you could be denied PR due to the situation. One can only answer; possibly. But this might not be a permanent situation. They want to know one is likely to continue on being employed. If they know your employment is ending then you are likely given a chance to find new employment within a certain time frame although I don’t have any details on how long that might be. If successful , then you will (likely) get to stay, but possibly with extended limited residency and eventually again have a chance to be granted unlimited.

What they don’t want is to grant unlimited residency to one likely to soon be unemployed. Not necessarily a factor if your employment ending is due to the company closing or doing layoffs.  They just don’t want to have to start giving social benefits for one unemployed. One can always say it is unfair that a company fails or the economy has a downturn. The bottom line is if one employed or not – although I suspect being fired is even worse since it can bring one capabilities for further employment in question. 

Actual deportation or criminal charges are possible but sound unlikely from what you write. Both for residency and/or citizenship it is usually asked if one is a member of an illegal or undemocratic organization. Membership is an out criteria. One cannot be in an openly jihadist or Nazi group that does illegal things and argue that they themselves are innocent. Mere membership is enough.

You are not the mastermind of a company doing illegal dealings with Russia - yet still a part of such an organization even if unwittingly. So yes, they could demand some accountability from one for being in such an organization even if not a manager or person personally directing illegal actions. Seems kind of unlikely though if one is a lower level employee and can credibly show that they had no knowledge of violations. I would not get too worked up about such things until they happen but good that you already have a lawyer.

The situation described is so specialized and uncommon that it’s doubtful you’ll find anyone here with firsthand knowledge. From what I read you are merely speculating if you could be denied PR due to the situation. One can only answer; possibly. But this might not be a permanent situation. They want to know one is likely to continue on being employed. If they know your employment is ending then you are likely given a chance to find new employment within a certain time frame although I don’t have any details on how long that might be. If successful , then you will (likely) get to stay, but possibly with extended limited residency and eventually again have a chance to be granted unlimited. What they don’t want is to grant unlimited residency to one likely to soon be unemployed. Not necessarily a factor if your employment ending is due to the company closing or doing layoffs. They just don’t want to have to start giving social benefits for one unemployed. One can always say it is unfair that a company fails or the economy has a downturn. The bottom line is if one employed or not – although I suspect being fired is even worse since it can bring one capabilities for further employment in question. Actual deportation or criminal charges are possible but sound unlikely from what you write. Both for residency and/or citizenship it is usually asked if one is a member of an illegal or undemocratic organization. Membership is an out criteria. One cannot be in an openly jihadist or Nazi group that does illegal things and argue that they themselves are innocent. Mere membership is enough.You are not the mastermind of a company doing illegal dealings with Russia - yet still a part of such an organization even if unwittingly. So yes, they could demand some accountability from one for being in such an organization even if not a manager or person personally directing illegal actions. Seems kind of unlikely though if one is a lower level employee and can credibly show that they had no knowledge of violations. I would not get too worked up about such things until they happen but good that you already have a lawyer. -@TominStuttgart

I'm not speculating that I could be denied PR, if I'm jobless (or about to be jobless) I'm almost guaranteed of being denied PR. Unless there is a way to get PR knowing full well that I will be laid off about 10 days after my appointment but I don't know that.

The thing that concerns me is that my former colleague is claiming that most people now are facing legal issues because of the company to the extent of deportation threats yet so far I haven't had any legal issues and nobody has threatened to deport me.

The thing that concerns me is that my former colleague is claiming that most people now are facing legal issues because of the company to the extent of deportation threats yet so far I haven't had any legal issues and nobody has threatened to deport me. -@Trabantlover

Yes, after you have (only in your fouth message of this thread) described the situation fully, I think your colleagueis right.

As Tom and me already wrote above, EVERYONE in such a criminal organisation is a suspect and will be investigated - and since merely knowing about (even if not participating in) illegal activities makes you complicit, you really have other problems now than your immigration status. Forget about that PR application (it will anyway be put on hold as long as the investigations are ongoing, which can be years), start worrying with your colleague and prepare your legal defense!

(Ask your lawyer about it, but in some cases cooperating with the investigators can show remorse and lower the punishment. Claiming innocense until they find something will not.)

@TominStuttgartI'm not speculating that I could be denied PR, if I'm jobless (or about to be jobless) I'm almost guaranteed of being denied PR. Unless there is a way to get PR knowing full well that I will be laid off about 10 days after my appointment but I don't know that.The thing that concerns me is that my former colleague is claiming that most people now are facing legal issues because of the company to the extent of deportation threats yet so far I haven't had any legal issues and nobody has threatened to deport me. -@Trabantlover

Whether you know definitely if you are going to be laid off or not, the prospect as described already shows an insecurity about your employment. Officials don't want that. Best to be upfront about your situation and see what they say. Actually different German government offices often do NOT communicate well with each other. You might present your employment as ongoing and secure and they won't necessarily find out about the problems. Maybe. But if you are soon after unemployed then they might look into and claim you concealed relevant data and should have let them know your job seemed at risk. This might invalidate your residency and make it more likely for further refusals of extending a limited residency and more so an unlimited one.

@TominStuttgart I believe the matter is no longer about him being employed, but about being a criminal or not. And I am reasonably certain that his criminal background is checked during a PR application process and investigations of this nature will put the application on hold. So there is no point for him applying now!

Everything matters but the main issue here is whether I can get PR or not, I had no involvement in any criminal activities and if someone tries to go after me I will defend myself. This is, however, not the topic at hand here.

Well, it sounds a bit like a soap opera. Please come back and report how the next episode went!

Well, it sounds a bit like a soap opera. Please come back and report how the next episode went! -@beppi

My next immediate step is finding out if the company is indeed shutting down operations and if they are, getting them to admit it to me because according to my ex-colleague: "That is what literally all of us know and we were informed". Well, I wasn't...