Can LA's tragedy become a boom for Bali?

I have to be honest, I hope they don't move over.

Bali already has way too many tourists and (sorry, not you, obviously) clueless expats who cause nothing but trouble.

I will be clear so you don't shout at me as much, I restrict the above to places such as Kuta that have been ruined by bogans and those who prey on bogan stupidity.

I'll bet south Bali was lovely before that lot smashed into it.

As for lessons from the fires. Nobody will learn them,  so it's pointless trying.

They will rebuild, prices will go stupid, then there will be another fire or massive quake.

They won't learn because too many people will make a fortune by telling everyone it was a one off that will never happen again.

I understand the politicians are already blaming each other rather than do something about the problems.

@Fred

Had not heard the term Bogan before but it did make me laugh after looking it up. Comparable to the word 'Chav' in the UK perhaps. You find alot of them in Dubai.

There are analogies of course to Bali all over the world. Bali is Australia's playground as is the Med for the Brits. I would compare Bali's experience to Ibiza, a scenic island in the Balearics in the western Mediterranean. In the sixties it was the best kept secret until the 'clubbing' crowd discovered it. For our American friends I would use the example of Fort Lauderdale and the 'spring break' students of the 70's & 80's. Eventually they were moved on but it was only a 4 week affair anyway.

If I was an expat living in Bali I'm not sure I would relish the pretentious, fickle, air kissing crowd from L.A. who have an attention span of an ant before moving on to the next trendy happening. That said if they all congregate in the same area (Kuta) does it matter?

@Fred
Had not heard the term Bogan before but it did make me laugh after looking it up. Comparable to the word 'Chav' in the UK perhaps. You find alot of them in Dubai.

If I was an expat living in Bali I'm not sure I would relish the pretentious, fickle, air kissing crowd from L.A. who have an attention span of an ant before moving on to the next trendy happening. That said if they all congregate in the same area (Kuta) does it matter? - @Lotus Eater

An Ozzie friend introduced me to the word some years ago. I have to admit a fondness for the 'throwaway' English used in Australia.

I was never into American English, or the terrible attitude so many of the bogan style Americans bring with them.

There's an arrogant, "we are the best" culture I don't care for.  Of course that doesn't apply to all US citizens, but it seems to apply to far too many that travel abroad.

Also hoping lots and lots of Americans don't move to Bali. One of the negatives for me is that there are just so many westerners living there. It's also one of several reasons why I enjoy living in West Java, hardly any westerners around so no targeting of 'rich' Caucasians with higher prices.

. That said if they all congregate in the same area (Kuta) does it matter? - @Lotus Eater

No

I'm going to respond to some of the comments made in reply to my initial post in a general manner so as not to single out any specific comments.  And please take this as a general stream of consciousness and observations formed over twenty five years of full time expatriate living in Bali...all of those years living outside of Ubud in my Balinese wife's ancestral village of Bunutan-Kedewatan hugging the sacred Ayung River. 

For a good portion of my quarter century of living on Bali I also served as a volunteer with the US Consular Agency in Denpasar which provided me with the opportunity to meet a good number of other American expats on Bali as well as the then current US Ambassador to Indonesia, as it was the custom in those days for the Ambassador to annually visit Bali and meet with the American expats living here. 

Kuta was never a hub or center for either American expats or even tourists.  To the extent that such a hub or center existed for the majority of Americans, it was central and northern Bali, with Ubud and its substantial environs being most popular.  As the spiritual and cultural center of Bali, it was Ubud which had the predominant appeal to Americans who came here, and not the "Spring Break" (Fort Lauderdale) party hearty appeal of Kuta, Legian and later on, Canggu (now known as "Little Moscow"). 

For all my years on Bali, the greatest challenge and source of stress for those who managed tourism was to maintain a balance between quality and quantity of visitors and its expatriate community.  Historically, and even now, success in tourism has been measured in terms of arrivals and the emphasis on arrivals has significantly, if not exclusively, resulted in the current and ever increasing scourge of excessive traffic on our roads and other strains on existing Balinese infrastructure...potable water being near or at the top of that list. 

As for the subtle and not so subtle American bashing here, I can partially understand it especially given America's choice for President last November.  However, you won't run into those sort of Americans here on Bali.  Bali has no appeal to those who wear MAGA hats.  So, have no worries.       

However, you won't run into those sort of Americans here on Bali. Bali has no appeal to those who wear MAGA hats. So, have no worries.    - @Ubudian

I really hope you're right. They are the worst of the bogans I mentioned

i. Bali has no appeal to those who wear MAGA hats. - @Ubudian

          Very few MAGA Hindus.

i. Bali has no appeal to those who wear MAGA hats.  - @Ubudian
     Very few MAGA Hindus.
- @mugtech

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor … 325526.cms

@mugtech

"Very few MAGA Hindus."

I can't understand your confusion as I was clearly talking about Americans living in or visiting Bali and not the Balinese.  Every Balinese I've tutored in English would have no trouble understanding that. 

@Fred

The two main components of Agama Hindu Bali are Animism and Buddhism.  Vivek Ramaswaney is not a Balinese Hindu.  He would be just as confused in a Balinese temple ceremony as you would be. 

I have dealings with a lot of Buddhists of late. Mostly decent but one is an evil little git - stupid as well.

If Balanese Hinduism is anything like that lot, it's probably pretty gentle and 180 degrees from Maga.

However, back to topic. Bali has way too many foreigners to be good for anyone except those who prey on them.

@Fred

"Bali has way too many foreigners to be good for anyone except those who prey on them."

Given your own minimal experience being in Bali I would respectably submit you're in no position to say that aside from it being your own opinion. Having spent most of your limited time on Bali in the South, I can understand why you might have come to formulate that opinion.  I could take you to areas of Bali where the locals rarely see foreigners. 

Now, in your opinion. who is it that preys on these foreigners?   

        Bali supposed to be 82% Hindu, MAGA folks not feeling too comfortable in that situation, as they are alleged Christians.  MAGA folks not good at being a minority.

@Fred"Bali has way too many foreigners to be good for anyone except those who prey on them."Given your own minimal experience being in Bali I would respectably submit you're in no position to say that aside from it being your own opinion. Having spent most of your limited time on Bali in the South, I can understand why you might have come to formulate that opinion. I could take you to areas of Bali where the locals rarely see foreigners. Now, in your opinion. who is it that preys on these foreigners? - @Ubudian

As you rightly say, my visit was limited in both time and locations.

My list of bad experiences include, but are not restricted to:

1. "Young lady?". Men pimping prostitutes. One or two can be ignored as filthy little gits, but I must have been asked 20 times every day. This nasty game is likely targeting bule because they hope for a big payday.
2. Drugs sold openly on the street near Ground Zero. I saw what dealers did to the UK so I find these people not to my taste. They are in business because too many idiot tourists buy their rubbish.
3. Taxi drivers. Blue Bird excluded. Many local taxi drivers are essentially thieves with the prices they charge. Worse. At least one hotel in a remote  beach doesn't allow Blue Bird to pick up. They give you a ripoff taxi's number.
4. Massive overpricing. I got sick of places overcharging for everything so I stuck to Alfamart and other honest chains.
5. Prizes. You're given a ticket. You've won, buy you have to buy a load of stuff to get your prize. A really nasty scam that isn't restricted to Bali, but is very common there.

Breakfast time. Enjoy your day.

Add tour guides whist I'm defrosting a portion of my home made bolognese sauce for breakfast.

I politely refused a couple of times on each occasion before given the ridiculously overpriced tour sellers an unambiguous offski.

However, they target the vulnerable to pester them into taking their trips.

I recall a youngish woman being got at by one especially evil pillock. I couldn't leave that alone as she was clearly upset and close to tears, so I pushed by 100+ kg in front of the guide and asked to woman if she wanted away from him. Her relieved look made the risk of a fight worth it.

The guide wasn't left with a lot of choices so he buggered off, but he'll have just aimed at the next victim.

Bali, at least the tourist ares, needs a clean up. Yes, I blame the tourists for being stupid, and the criminals/rip off artists for uncaring greed, but I would suggest the local government and law enforcement could clean up a lot of it quickly.

The dealers stood out like sore thumbs. Identifying, arresting, and dumping them in gaol could be completed in an hour. Interrogation would likely see the heads arrested.

Dumping that lot would be a good start.

1. Why is MAGA being brought into this? Can't see the relevance.
2. While I really don't enjoy Bali so much anymore, back in the 80's and 90's and even 2000s there were far less westerners which was much nicer.
3. I have nothing against Americans because like any other westerners there are good and bad. For many years now people are getting fed up with Russians and Ukrainians.
4. Yes lots of parts of Bali where you won't see westerners and where Bali is unspoilt but you need to go further and further away to find these areas.
5. It seems that the Bali government is going flat out in tourist development. I feel that putting up giant swings everywhere and in my opinion destroying places like Uluwatu with removing parts of the cliff to put up new hotels, big swing in Tegallalang and so on is damaging the natural beauty. So many examples of this in Bali.
6. The local government needs to come down harder on criminal gangs, scammers, money changing thieves etc.
7. Some people selling drugs are undercover police, that is what I have always heard over the past 30 years or so.
8. Police should do something about fake Blue Bird taxis.

Why is MAGA being brought into this? Can't see the relevance. - @wyngrove60

The more arrogant the tourist, and the more up their arses about how great their home country is, the worse they are.

Especially crap UK tourists tend to be middle class "I am" types, but the worst US tourists I've had the misfortune to meet were all pretty much flag wrapped, closed minded, idiots. As for Ozzies, it's the bogans.

Thailand gets a load of dirty gits out for young girls they'd get arrested for touching at home. I saw Brits, Germans, and Americans at that game.

I suppose being cretins isn't their fault, but  wish they'd go to Blackpool instead of Bali.

One of the big reasons I love living in Indonesia is the safety and lack of all the stuff that the rubbish end of foreign visitors have brought to Bali.

Numerous times on this thread it has been stated that there are too many westerners in Bali.  Those westerners would be comprised of two types...tourists/visitors and expats.  The most recent data available cites that there are approximately 3,600 expats of all nationalities on Bali, whereas the total population of the island is 4.4 million.  With such a tiny percentage of the Balinese population being expatriate, that "too many" is obviously from some other source, and that source is of course the number of tourists to be found here.  International tourist arrivals for 2024 was approximately 5.8 million.  Domestic tourist arrivals for the same period was approximately 9.2 million. 

Although hard numbers are not available, it is obvious and well known to the locals that the vast majority of tourists to Bali confine, or at least concentrate their stay to areas in southern Bali.  Bali is economically reliant on tourism/hospitality industry, so it's only reasonable to expect that tourism numbers for Bali will remain at high levels. 

The obvious solution for those who feel the need to limit their exposure to other westerners while on Bali, either as a visitor, or an expatriate, is to concentrate their time on Bali to those areas that are not in the South, and to plan their stays during non peak tourist seasons.  Topics like "Bali, off the beaten track" and peak tourist seasons on Bali can be easily explored on the internet as much has been written on those topics.   

@Fred

Having just read your list of horrible experiences, my only reply at this time was our earlier discussions where I warned you to avoid Kuta.  🙂  But, even for Kuta, being solicited by pimps 20 times a day seems to me to be a real stretch.  Are you sure you weren't confusing some of your memories with Bangkok?  And as a side note, in case you were unaware, most of the "working girls" on Bali come from Java.  Balinese "working girls" are VERY rare and restrict themselves to Balinese clientele.  I know this from members of my extensive Balinese family which include two in Polda. 

Hey, I hope you enjoyed your breakfast!  Cheers!

For the tourist numbers against local population, one fly can ruin a soup.

@Fred

Having just read your list of horrible experiences, my only reply at this time was our earlier discussions where I warned you to avoid Kuta. 🙂 But, even for Kuta, being solicited by pimps 20 times a day seems to me to be a real stretch. Are you sure you weren't confusing some of your memories with Bangkok? And as a side note, in case you were unaware, most of the "working girls" on Bali come from Java. Balinese "working girls" are VERY rare and restrict themselves to Balinese clientele. I know this from members of my extensive Balinese family which include two in Polda.

Hey, I hope you enjoyed your breakfast! Cheers! - @Ubudian

Warned?  You did, but that's where my mate wanted to be.

Kuta has loads of pimps, so offers were many. It was always a passing, "Young lady?" rather than hard sell.

Thailand has pros hanging out of bar windows so no mixed memories.

The 'you win' scammers I met were all Javanese, but I declined to visit any prostitutes so I will have to bow to your experience 🤣

Ah!  Maybe you got solicited by pimps in Kuta so often because you were wearing your "Me So Horny" baseball cap you picked up in Bangkok!  🤣

But for the record, it's not my experience that you are bowing to, rather it's my expertise and knowledge about crime in Bali acquired over the years from members of my family who are Balinese cops (Polda).  In fact, I've worked with them in the past helping to snare some foreign expats involved in criminal activities, but I'm too old for that sort of amusement any more. 

Bali isn't perfect by any means, but exaggerating its problems and issues on this forum is hardly useful.  That's my point, mate. 😉

Cheers!

Bali isn't perfect by any means, but exaggerating its problems and issues on this forum is hardly useful. That's my point, mate. 😉
Cheers! - @Ubudian

I've told you a million times, I NEVER exaggerate.

I all truthfulness, the pimps are a pain, but they don't push it after first refusal so that's it. The number per day varied, but it was a lot.

The drug dealers are there for all to see, but the cops did nothing. Some claimed the cops were in on it, but I have nothing to suggest that might be true.

Try to tell me a lot of non-blue bird drivers aren't much short of rubbers, if you dare.

The same goes for the street tour pushers.

As for the place's rep, it's deserved. The bad end of foreign visitors have ruined the place.

Bali, or at least Kuta, has everything I moved away from the west to avoid. It's the only place in this wonderful country I was happy to leave.

I know the tourist industry is where much of Bali's money comes from, but I would question the wisdom of selling out beautiful in favour of cash.

I think Roy must be younger than me, or perhaps wasn't an utter git when he was younger.

Perhaps seeing Kuta and the bogans brought back unpleasant memories of times I should, but don't, regret (except for all the hangovers).

I was a greasy biker with the social graces of a flatulent rat, so perhaps the sight of people doing stunningly idiotic things whilst drunk hit hard.

As for drugs and prostitution, I'll leave them to people even more stupid than I.

@Fred

I've told you a million times, I NEVER exaggerate.

I think that’s an exaggeration Fred. How was the Bolognese?

@Fred
I've told you a million times, I NEVER exaggerate.
I think that’s an exaggeration Fred. How was the Bolognese? - @Lotus Eater

Stunning- and that is bang straight up.

@Fred

"I think Roy must be younger than me..."

You think?

I'm midway in that septuagenarian period of my life...yeah my profile picture goes back to the invention days of digital photography and life on Bali. The sad part is most of my long time expatriate friends, going back to the Beggar's Bush and Naughty Nuri's era of Ubud are dead.

So, do you still think I'm younger than you?  Or is it time for me to start calling you Kumpi which is how most of fellow villagers honorarily address me these days?   

So, do you still think I'm younger than you? Or is it time for me to start calling you Kumpi which is how most of fellow villagers honorarily address me these days? - @Ubudian

You are it, and I feel it.