Advice on Salary offer please?

The tax-free salary is good in terms of living in KSA; however, it's lower than the salary you've indicated for comparable engineer qualifications in Oz.  Additionally, the mediocre housing and transportation allowances and the 48-hour work week are lousy.  I assume this offer came through a third-party recruiter.  Best to apply directly to companies to get the best salary and bennies.

I smurfette,  thank you for replying.
It's directly through our company's head office in Singapore.  I have a feeling they are used to paying asian wages/holiday time, and have no clue what to offer a westerner.

smurfette wrote:

The tax-free salary is good in terms of living in KSA; however, it's lower than the salary you've indicated for comparable engineer qualifications in Oz.  Additionally, the mediocre housing and transportation allowances and the 48-hour work week are lousy.  I assume this offer came through a third-party recruiter.  Best to apply directly to companies to get the best salary and bennies.

I was Director of Ops for ,at the time, the largest A/E Saudi Consultant.   It is hard to say but the offer for the level you state (10 years exp.) is quite good for SA and the true value usually depends a lot on the country from where you will be comming and from which you originate.  If you will live in a compound and have to pay for schools forget it your are better off in your home country.         Basically speaking most companies in SA work on a 45 or 48 hour week.   Legally 48 is supposed to be the maximum without overtime.   The compensation is usually calculated as follows   Salary = Basic + 25% for housing + 10% for transportation.  Paid 30 days vacation, Paid Ramadan, Hajj  and National Day , Tickets Home and paid health dissability insurance.   Big question is are you on family status and are you bringing a family.
For ref.   Egyptians with Doctorate Degrees and twenty + years of experience running whole engineering Departments in multiple offices were paid about the same basic salary offered to you with a stright 35% H&T add on plus insurance,paid yearly trips, paid 30 day yearly vacations and standard holidays.   Diference is housing and schools are a fraction of what you have to pay as a Westerner.   They actually can cover these cost out of the allowances where you will not.

you also have to think of living cost. it is substantially cheaper to live in KSA than AUS hence saving ALOT of money. so even if you make less, you make more if that makes sense

Hi Alon Injed,

I am Canadian, and have been working in Australia for the past 4 years for my company.  The company has given me a job offer in Riyadh.  So I am looking at the offer from a Canada/Australian perspective, and would like to know what is fair for that, which is why I gave the example of a similar position here in Australia being a $95,000 gross salary.

Alon Injed wrote:

I was Director of Ops for ,at the time, the largest A/E Saudi Consultant.   It is hard to say but the offer for the level you state (10 years exp.) is quite good for SA and the true value usually depends a lot on the country from where you will be comming and from which you originate.  If you will live in a compound and have to pay for schools forget it your are better off in your home country.         Basically speaking most companies in SA work on a 45 or 48 hour week.   Legally 48 is supposed to be the maximum without overtime.   The compensation is usually calculated as follows   Salary = Basic + 25% for housing + 10% for transportation.  Paid 30 days vacation, Paid Ramadan, Hajj  and National Day , Tickets Home and paid health dissability insurance.   Big question is are you on family status and are you bringing a family.
For ref.   Egyptians with Doctorate Degrees and twenty + years of experience running whole engineering Departments in multiple offices were paid about the same basic salary offered to you with a stright 35% H&T add on plus insurance,paid yearly trips, paid 30 day yearly vacations and standard holidays.   Diference is housing and schools are a fraction of what you have to pay as a Westerner.   They actually can cover these cost out of the allowances where you will not.

- 14,000 SAR for accomodation, transportation, 1 air ticket (& other allowances)

Is the 14,000 SAR monthly? I'm thinking not.  And if not, this isn't nearly enough.  You'll be really digging into your salary for accommodation if you want to live in a decent compound.

Hi Alliecat,

Sorry, the 14,000 SAR is also monthly...

Alliecat wrote:

- 14,000 SAR for accomodation, transportation, 1 air ticket (& other allowances)

Is the 14,000 SAR monthly? I'm thinking not.  And if not, this isn't nearly enough.  You'll be really digging into your salary for accommodation if you want to live in a decent compound.

Hi,The basic salary is not bad but the housing allowance is very low that how much they paid me in housing allowance and I wasn't aware how much it will cost to rent something desent in Riyadh,nothing less then SR 25000 and up,and to live in any western compound nothing less then SR 40000.Vaccation time should be 45 days,and make sure you will be working 48 Hrs per week not more,they told us 48 hrs but in their book up to 55 hrs so we end up working extra 7 hrs per week without pay.One of my friend from Canada and he is an engineer with a master degree,he get paid the same but his housing allowance is SR89000 per year,and he get a company viechle or equivalent of SR 2500 per month.I didn't find Riyadh very cheep place to live.

35grand a month? thats like almost 10 grand a month TAX FREE! if you dont take this, i will!!!

Faysg

I was reading Saudi labour laws say the maximum work week allowed is 48 hours, and after that overtime pay is required, except for a few special cases.

expatcornergcc.com/?p=743

faysg wrote:

Hi,The basic salary is not bad but the housing allowance is very low that how much they paid me in housing allowance and I wasn't aware how much it will cost to rent something desent in Riyadh,nothing less then SR 25000 and up,and to live in any western compound nothing less then SR 40000.Vaccation time should be 45 days,and make sure you will be working 48 Hrs per week not more,they told us 48 hrs but in their book up to 55 hrs so we end up working extra 7 hrs per week without pay.One of my friend from Canada and he is an engineer with a master degree,he get paid the same but his housing allowance is SR89000 per year,and he get a company viechle or equivalent of SR 2500 per month.I didn't find Riyadh very cheep place to live.

The law is one thing - in practice it is different - some places the work requires more than 48 hours so it standard to work extra hours without overtime pay...get some feedback from someone working in the same place.

Check your housing allowance...is it 14K per month, seems a bit odd if basic is 21k and housing is 14k per month....if is 14k per month you will be able live on a western compound.

Hi SaudiUK,

The 14K (SAR) is per month, and it's both housing, transportation, and for plane tickets home for holidays.

SaudiUK wrote:

The law is one thing - in practice it is different - some places the work requires more than 48 hours so it standard to work extra hours without overtime pay...get some feedback from someone working in the same place.

Check your housing allowance...is it 14K per month, seems a bit odd if basic is 21k and housing is 14k per month....if is 14k per month you will be able live on a western compound.

If you are single or married with no children and specially if your wife is a teacher or nurse you can do ok to well in Saudi Arabia.

Kids School around 40K SAR per year per kid unless company will reimburses you.
Compound 1 BR around 60-80K SAR
         2 BR around 80-120K SAR
         3 BR Around  140-200K SAR

No kids living in Apt Bldg alone I pay 37K for new luxury large 2 Br/living/dining/2 bath/kitchen apartment.  Equivalent in Compound 3-4 times as much.  While my family was here I paid 140K plus 80K for two kids in school.  I have friend that live in buildings which are OK and pay 18K per year for 2 BR.  Do the math.

Your offer is on the low side for an International Company but it is good for a Saudi Company, they do not pay well as you compete against Egyptians, Pakistani's , Indians and Filipinos which can live and send money home on a fraction of what you need to survive.   Next category up are Lebanese, Syrians Ect. which make a bit more in salary than the previous group again your competition.  These are competent technical people most of which are over educated but lack common sence, good experience and productivity.    Riyadh is more expensive than Jeddah for housing.   I cannot comment on the rest of the kingdom.

internationalcanuck wrote:

Hi Alon Injed,

I am Canadian, and have been working in Australia for the past 4 years for my company.  The company has given me a job offer in Riyadh.  So I am looking at the offer from a Canada/Australian perspective, and would like to know what is fair for that, which is why I gave the example of a similar position here in Australia being a $95,000 gross salary.

Alon Injed wrote:

I was Director of Ops for ,at the time, the largest A/E Saudi Consultant.   It is hard to say but the offer for the level you state (10 years exp.) is quite good for SA and the true value usually depends a lot on the country from where you will be comming and from which you originate.  If you will live in a compound and have to pay for schools forget it your are better off in your home country.         Basically speaking most companies in SA work on a 45 or 48 hour week.   Legally 48 is supposed to be the maximum without overtime.   The compensation is usually calculated as follows   Salary = Basic + 25% for housing + 10% for transportation.  Paid 30 days vacation, Paid Ramadan, Hajj  and National Day , Tickets Home and paid health dissability insurance.   Big question is are you on family status and are you bringing a family.
For ref.   Egyptians with Doctorate Degrees and twenty + years of experience running whole engineering Departments in multiple offices were paid about the same basic salary offered to you with a stright 35% H&T add on plus insurance,paid yearly trips, paid 30 day yearly vacations and standard holidays.   Diference is housing and schools are a fraction of what you have to pay as a Westerner.   They actually can cover these cost out of the allowances where you will not.

I agree With SaudiUK,if the housing allowance SR 1400 per year you will end up paying at least equivalent to one month salary for your rent.Thats what happened to me,I thought its SR 14000 per month but it was per year,I get stuck with the housing issue and its not rtesolved till now because I wasn't able to find any desent rent less then SR 30000 per year.

Hi Alon Injed,

I am single.  The company I work for is Asian headquartered company, I work in their Australian market.

Alon Injed wrote:

If you are single or married with no children and specially if your wife is a teacher or nurse you can do ok to well in Saudi Arabia.

Kids School around 40K SAR per year per kid unless company will reimburses you.
Compound 1 BR around 60-80K SAR
         2 BR around 80-120K SAR
         3 BR Around  140-200K SAR

No kids living in Apt Bldg alone I pay 37K for new luxury large 2 Br/living/dining/2 bath/kitchen apartment.  Equivalent in Compound 3-4 times as much.  While my family was here I paid 140K plus 80K for two kids in school.  I have friend that live in buildings which are OK and pay 18K per year for 2 BR.  Do the math.

Your offer is on the low side for an International Company but it is good for a Saudi Company, they do not pay well as you compete against Egyptians, Pakistani's , Indians and Filipinos which can live and send money home on a fraction of what you need to survive.   Next category up are Lebanese, Syrians Ect. which make a bit more in salary than the previous group again your competition.  These are competent technical people most of which are over educated but lack common sence, good experience and productivity.    Riyadh is more expensive than Jeddah for housing.   I cannot comment on the rest of the kingdom.

Monthly right.   Total 35,000 per month.

internationalcanuck wrote:

My company gave me the details of their offer.  It is the position of a senior structural engineer in Riyadh (based on 10 years of engineering experience).  The package is as follows:

- 21,000 SAR basic Salary
- 14,000 SAR for accomodation, transportation, 1 air ticket (& other allowances)
- 30 calender days annual leave which includes weekends and public holidays
- airfare to and from home for the beginning and end of the contract
- medical and disability insurance

The jobs requires a 48 hour workweek, no overtime pay.

Gross salary for a senior engineer here in Australia is approx. $95,000 (includes 9% superannuation/401k contribution)

Thoughts and advice on a counter offer? Any advice would be great!

Yes.

Alon Injed wrote:

Monthly right.   Total 35,000 per month.

Thats a decent offer. Average

Accomodation is going to be your big headache....rentals are paid 6 months in advance (sometimes 12 months inadvance).

If you want to live in a western compound with facilities expect to pay SR 100K plus.

For accomo, either go for a westerner compound. 8-9K per month if you don't need a dead social life. But do remember that you'll have to wait in a long queue.

Alternatively, you can just go for a furnished apartment @ 5K per month. Will be readily available.

But Brad Pitt,
Have you taken Angelina Julie in confidence about all this?
just kidding! But man, you are amazingingly similar.

The other catch is, I won't have an Iqama. I'd be on a business trip visa, which means re-applying every 90 days, and that I cannot open a saudi bank account.  I also spoke with a tax consultant today, they said that since I don't have an Iqama, the Australian government would require me to pay income taxes on my salary.
So this isn't tax free like they promised for the situation they are offering me.

TheLegendLeads wrote:

For accomo, either go for a westerner compound. 8-9K per month if you don't need a dead social life. But do remember that you'll have to wait in a long queue.

Alternatively, you can just go for a furnished apartment @ 5K per month. Will be readily available.

But Brad Pitt,
Have you taken Angelina Julie in confidence about all this?
just kidding! But man, you are amazingingly similar.

internationalcanuck wrote:

So this isn't tax free like they promised for the situation they are offering me.

Taking that into account, is this really such a good offer? 

However, if you break even, I'd say go for it (if you can leave at the end of a one-year contract) just to experience a life and culture open to very few outsiders.

Good luck!

I'm going to go back to them with a counter offer on Monday.  That's what I'm chatting with you guys, to get some help to find out what's a normal salary package, in relation to one's either gross or after-tax salary. 

After all the only reason to go to KSA from a western perspective is the financial benefit.

In my company everything in negotiable.  They just expanded into KSA last year, so I think they are stilling learning the ropes of the system there.  Hopefully I can educate them

Alliecat wrote:

internationalcanuck wrote:

So this isn't tax free like they promised for the situation they are offering me.

Taking that into account, is this really such a good offer? 

However, if you break even, I'd say go for it (if you can leave at the end of a one-year contract) just to experience a life and culture open to very few outsiders.

Good luck!

I would suggest you ask the company to sort accommodation for you on a western compound as without an Iqama you wont be able to get into a compound.

Hi internationalcanuk
Have been reading this post with interest as I am going through the process of moving to KSA and heading up my organisations venture into the country.
I would be seriously asking why you cannot get an iqama if you expecting to be their for any length of time - from what I have learnt so far, access to iqamas and visas is one of the most crucial aspects of working in the country.
As we are contractors, we will provide accommodation and vehicles for all people except those permanently at our KSA office.
If you are effectively working as a "visitor" I would insist that your company pays you offshore (ie outside KSA), provides you with accommodation, a vehicle, and a portion of your salary as cash for living expenses.

Forget everything we talked about.  No iquama and  travel out every 90 days changes the rules.
U cannot rent an apartment, have a bank acccount or almost anything without an iquama.
You need to be paid your regular salary and get at least 25% service increase, paid housing and a paid rental car for your troubles.  You will not save anything and may end up taking all your savings to supplement your income otherwise.

internationalcanuck wrote:

The other catch is, I won't have an Iqama. I'd be on a business trip visa, which means re-applying every 90 days, and that I cannot open a saudi bank account.  I also spoke with a tax consultant today, they said that since I don't have an Iqama, the Australian government would require me to pay income taxes on my salary.
So this isn't tax free like they promised for the situation they are offering me.

TheLegendLeads wrote:

For accomo, either go for a westerner compound. 8-9K per month if you don't need a dead social life. But do remember that you'll have to wait in a long queue.

Alternatively, you can just go for a furnished apartment @ 5K per month. Will be readily available.

But Brad Pitt,
Have you taken Angelina Julie in confidence about all this?
just kidding! But man, you are amazingingly similar.

Alon Injed wrote:

Forget everything we talked about.  No iquama and  travel out every 90 days changes the rules.
U cannot rent an apartment, have a bank acccount or almost anything without an iquama.
You need to be paid your regular salary and get at least 25% service increase, paid housing and a paid rental car for your troubles.  You will not save anything and may end up taking all your savings to supplement your income otherwise.

internationalcanuck wrote:

The other catch is, I won't have an Iqama. I'd be on a business trip visa, which means re-applying every 90 days, and that I cannot open a saudi bank account.  I also spoke with a tax consultant today, they said that since I don't have an Iqama, the Australian government would require me to pay income taxes on my salary.
So this isn't tax free like they promised for the situation they are offering me.

TheLegendLeads wrote:

For accomo, either go for a westerner compound. 8-9K per month if you don't need a dead social life. But do remember that you'll have to wait in a long queue.

Alternatively, you can just go for a furnished apartment @ 5K per month. Will be readily available.

But Brad Pitt,
Have you taken Angelina Julie in confidence about all this?
just kidding! But man, you are amazingingly similar.

I don't have an iqama and I rent an apartment. You can rent an apartment with a business visa. You can't as you say open a bank account.

I was refused an apartment in Jeddah until I gave them a letter from my employer that an Iquama was being processed and would be available shortly? 

gashead wrote:

Alon Injed wrote:

Forget everything we talked about.  No iquama and  travel out every 90 days changes the rules.
U cannot rent an apartment, have a bank acccount or almost anything without an iquama.
You need to be paid your regular salary and get at least 25% service increase, paid housing and a paid rental car for your troubles.  You will not save anything and may end up taking all your savings to supplement your income otherwise.

internationalcanuck wrote:

The other catch is, I won't have an Iqama. I'd be on a business trip visa, which means re-applying every 90 days, and that I cannot open a saudi bank account.  I also spoke with a tax consultant today, they said that since I don't have an Iqama, the Australian government would require me to pay income taxes on my salary.
So this isn't tax free like they promised for the situation they are offering me.

I don't have an iqama and I rent an apartment. You can rent an apartment with a business visa. You can't as you say open a bank account.

Alon Injed wrote:

I was refused an apartment in Jeddah until I gave them a letter from my employer that an Iquama was being processed and would be available shortly?

The real-estate offices ask for the iqama or employer letter just for the sake of making sure that the tenant is trust-worthy. I took a family apartment on rent while I was unmarried. First they refused but then my company had to issue a letter authenticating my employment and stating that I would be married soon.

Why no iqama? Sounds strange and could give you a big headache. Who will pay the travel costs every 90 days and where will you have to travel to? Also what about when the business visa expires? Do you have to leave every 6 months and take holiday to get a new visa?

Regarding taxes i'd get some more advice regarding off shore payments. Of course the easiest way is to get an iqama.

Good luck.

The company has said they will pay the travel/accomodation costs associated with maintaining the visa requirements.
I have to exit and enter the country once every 30 days, and then go back home every 90 days to get a new visa.

hamlay wrote:

Why no iqama? Sounds strange and could give you a big headache. Who will pay the travel costs every 90 days and where will you have to travel to? Also what about when the business visa expires? Do you have to leave every 6 months and take holiday to get a new visa?

Regarding taxes i'd get some more advice regarding off shore payments. Of course the easiest way is to get an iqama.

Good luck.

Hi,

I spent 5+ years in Australia, currently in Riyadh.

That KSA offer is pretty decent especially when compared to your Australian average of $95K (which sincerely is pretty average, considering taxes)...you will definitely save more than what you had save with $95K at home...go for it mate!

I've been doing a lot more research on this, basically, the
21,500 basic salary is about equivalent to the Net Salary after taxes in Australia.

While a housing/transportation allowance is added, it's not really a bonus, but is more compensation for the fact that a foreigner cannot purchase a house and must rent, and public transit/walking is impossible.

I've gone back to them with a different offer, see what they say, especially taking into account that the workweek will be 26% longer in KSA than Australia.