Chaotic Road Sign

There are a few killer intersections in the city.

The new East-West Highway has several intersections where the so called motorcycle lanes have a straight ahead AND the Right-Turn car/truck lane has a simultaneous green arrow.

This also happens on Calmette on the Quan 1 side of the bridge. A straight ahead PLUS simultaneous Left-Turns for traffic in each direction.

Even worse are the multiple traffic lights in the new Thu Thiem road complex in Quan 2. I witnessed a whole family killed as the father decided to turn left against the light.

Just when he turned, too impatient to wait 10-20 seconds for his green, just as a large tractor-trailer went through. The motorcycle, along with the father, mother and two children were dragged about two hundred metres along the highway with their body parts marking their trail of death.

The truck driver was arrested, as is the case in all road deaths. After the initial excitement and before the CGST arrived most of the witnesses had disappeared.

They could devote a whole section on < www.bestgore.com > to VN road klls.

Near where you live there are a series of dangerous intersections on the Nguyen Van Linh Expressway.

The intersection near the notorious FV Hospital and the Crescent Mall is bad in the out bound direction.

The road comprises 2+4+4+3 lane configurations. Motorcycle traffic in the two-lane outbound direction blithely Turn Left, in compliance with the signal, right across 2+2 truck and car lanes which also, simultaneously, have a green straight ahead signal.

As Crescent Mall has a few movie screens there is heavy evening traffic. About four months ago a whole bunch of motorcyclists turned left right in front of  tractor-trailer travelling at full speed.

The TT driver slammed on his brakes, hitting a few motorcyclists. Meanwhile the trailer swung around in a counter-clockwise direction, managing to wipe out many more motorcyclists.

The sick joke? FV Hospital wouldn't accept emergency patients for treatment. Some doctors and nurses did emergency treatment in the ambulances before they took off for VN hospitals.

The next intersection outbound is no better (Nguyen Duc Canh)(ISSS turn) is no better.

The road signs on many parts of Nguyen Van Linh are illegal, I even went to the traffic department with photographs and showed an engineer.

He told me not to hold my breath! The CGST love them but all tickets can be appealed to court where you will win.

But the bottom line is: Does t mak a difference when many VNese drivers don't pay attention to signs any way?

Sploke77,
How long have you lived here? Have you not observed the traffic patterns (or lack thereof) during your travels here?

Regardless of what the traffic signs indicate, and I admit, many of them are ambiguous at best, the key to there not being more accidents is that every vehicle moves very slowly through intersections. That allows the motorbikes to maneuver around the trucks and cars, and allows the trucks and cars to maneuver around each other while making turns, etc.

If you're riding a motorbike here, you had better remember this: DO NOT make quick, sharp maneuvers in traffic. Go with the flow. Use road signs as a general guideline. And always watch for the CSGT. Even if you follow the signs, you may be stopped by them "just because".

Jaitch wrote:

The road comprises 2+4+4+3 lane configurations. Motorcycle traffic in the two-lane outbound direction blithely Turn Left, in compliance with the signal

Turning left here does not comply with the signal. There is no signal to turn left in the outer motorbike lanes. The proper procedure (which many VN motorbike drivers do not follow, and turn left anyway) is to wait for green, proceed straight across the intersection, stop at the cross-street, turn left 90 degrees and wait for the green to go straight in that direction. There's even a marked, painted area on the pavement to indicate this. (It's probably covered over now, due to the resurfacing going on, but there's one on the side next to the exhibition center also.) Jaitch, you live there. You no doubt should have observed this. If not, replay some of the video from your helmet-cam.

To be safe, I follow this procedure at many intersections which don't even require it.

saigonmonkey wrote:

Turning left here does not comply with the signal. There is no signal to turn left in the outer motorbike lanes. ...

I've been driving for a few years around the world, even taught truck driving when I was in the Army - double de-clutch, stop on a hill and start without crushing a small object, etc.

Your theory of lights is not correct.

On the E-W Expressway there are filter (arrow) lights some of which function in the accepted, international way, and some that are in conflict.

We are not discussing traffic flow here, we are discussing traffic light functions.

A green filter arrow indicates the direction that traffic may travel in. Most of us pass through stop lights quite legally as there are cute little signs with a motorcycle and an arrow on them. A filter light.

Again, on Hoang Dieu (Q4) at the intersection with Nguyen Thai Hoc (the main drag from Q1) there is a perfect example of a properly installed filtered light system.

Traffic from Khanh Hoa (from Q7) turns on to Hoang Dieu and is held from travelling on to Nguyen Thai Hoc until the green filter arrow light permits a turn. At the same time traffic travelling along Hoang Dieu straight n the opposite direction are blocked.

This is an accepted international standard.

It is simply the Transportation technicians do not set the lights up properly.

Likewise in on our mutually favourite Nguyen Van Linh Expressway. IF a filter light indicates a turn status, drivers are entitled to accept it as permission to turn.

VNese drivers seem to park their brains when they get in/on a vehicle.

Situation: At intersection, my direction gets a green. At eleven seconds after the green Vinasun taxi cruises through a red light across the green lanes. I manage to score a hit on his passenger side doors. He was subsequently fired when I showed VS my video.

Situation: Again on NVL. Motorcycles in their lane, Toyota in car lane, signalling to turn right. Light goes to green, car starts turning, without regard to motorcycles, unfortunately for him I was there. I stopped, he carried on and collected a beautiful scratch all along his vehicle.

He leaves his scratched car in the opposing lanes of the side road and calls the police. I spray painted the vehicle positions (we do that in the Highlands). Police come. I produce video, they view it. I show them the VN Highway Traffic Act (on my Android) and driver gets a ticket.

What possesses a driver to assume he has the right of way across a line of traffic? Answer is simple: Not only they can't drive, they are also dumb.

I drive strictly to the VN Highway Code. If someone happens to breach it, and hit me, that is their problem. And don't expect sympathy from me - like the guy who ran a red and caught his leg on my rear trailer hitch and broke his leg. The VN Code says you have to offer assistance, only I don't assist dummies.

There are good drivers here - Mai Linh Express and Hoang Long bus drivers - it's simply a matter of caring. All cab companies have a strict termination policy - if proof is offered.

There are no excuses for poor traffic light engineering - hardly rocket science.

As a new driver suddenly switching from RHD to LHD, I drive with extreme care and caution. The practice is to signal in extra good time should you want to turn and watch for that imbecile who just insists he wants to go straight even after seeing your signal! I know signals and road signs don't mean much anyway - especially when you are a pedestrian - even worse. But that's the part I do admire about the skilled motorcyclist, everything just finds a perfect balance and life goes on..

Jaitch wrote:

Your theory of lights is not correct.

Obviously, I did not make myself clear in my original post, so I'll repost with clarifications:

Turning left, from the outside motorbike lanes at ANY of the intersections on the Nguyen Van Linh highway, does not comply with the signal, because there is NO LEFT TURN SIGNAL from this lane at any of the intersections.

This is not a theory. It is a fact. I've been through every intersection on this road more than 100 times. I know.

The proper procedure (which many VN motorbike drivers do not follow, and turn left anyway) is to wait for green, proceed straight across the intersection, stop at the cross-street, turn left 90 degrees and wait for the green to go straight in that direction. There's even a marked, painted area on the pavement to indicate this. (It's probably covered over now, due to the resurfacing going on, but there's one on the side next to the exhibition center also.) To be safe, I follow this procedure at many intersections which don't even require it.

This also is not a theory. It's a fact. I do it, and I've watched many good Vietnamese motorbike riders do it also. I posted this so that it may be helpful to other ex-pat motorbike riders.

Jaitch wrote:

We are not discussing traffic flow here, we are discussing traffic light functions.

Says you. The original post was regarding road signs. You are the one who changed the subject to poor traffic engineering and traffic lights.

Jaitch, In my opinion, the purpose of this forum is to provide fellow ex-pats with information which may help to live life more safely and happily here in Vietnam. Most of your posts serve that purpose, and many have helped me. However, these dissertations describing the deficiencies of Vietnam traffic signals and engineering do no one any good, because the people who really need to see your information probably do not read this forum. I'll also be honest and say that what I'm really thinking right now is nowhere close to what I'm typing, but I made a pledge that I would not go there on an open forum.

I understand your practice of crossing an intersection and I use myself on multi-lane roads.

There are numerous intersections with and without Left-Turn lanes where directional arrows, often one arrow pointing to the left and another straight ahead, are painted on the roadway in two lanes. I generally occupy a left turn lane when I am turning left.

There are many examples on the East-West Expressway. Another that comes to mind in is on La Duane.

I generally practice international driving here. I frequently travel down Ba Hunyh Thanh Quan to Dien Bien Phu where I turn left. This area is also a hot spot for CGST  collecting 'pensions'. Not once have I ever been stopped for moving in to the left (car) lane to turn. I always use my signals.

The CGST also wait in Dien Bien Phu and can see what I do but they also have never stopped me.

I think it all comes down to whether you are driving responsibly. A CGST sergeant I know (drives that extra wide-body Honda that looks as big as a small car) said that the CGST expect visible Foreigners (i.e. not VK) to drive better than  VNese as they are required to in their home countries.

He says that if a Foreigner is driving like an VNese ignoring lights, etc. they will stop them.

On Nguyen Van Linh there are filter (Left Turn) signals. Regardless of which lane they are intended for you get a Left Turn filter at the SAME TIME as the opposing lanes have a straight ahead signal. This is bad traffic engineering.

If a motorcycle wishes to to turn left on a non-filter light, it is legal. Then they are in between two lanes with flow in the same direction. The left most lane of the two has a green filter. Motorcycles who stop in the centre can move, legally, in to the area between the opposing lanes where there is a stop line and a traffic light.

The same engineer must have designed the next intersections signalling as it is as screwed up as the Crescent Mall one.

Road signs and traffic lights perform the same function, except one is active and the other passive.

Again back to the Crescent Mall intersection. The signage to the mall side of the NVL Expressway doesn't conform with legislation (either the road act or the 'Highway Code'). The reason, I was told by the HMC Transportation Department is that the developer of that area has responsibility for everything in their area.

The road signs on NVL from that intersection into the city are mainly illegal as at three plus metres high the signs are even high for truck drivers.

The CGST sit on the bridge or near Nguyen Thi Thap collecting 'pensions' (VND100,000) when a ticket is only worth VND50,000. I ask for the ticket then appeal it. Every one of the appeals have been successful on the grounds that the signs do not comply.

On Nguyen Du, just past Pasteur, there is a No Left Turn (cars and trucks). The sign is on the right kerb about 20-30 metres back. To be effective they should add a sign on the left hand (car) lane kerb.

IMO, knowing active signs can get Foreigners into dangerous situations, if they accept them at face value, is as important as static signs.