Marrying a moroccan woman

lon1 wrote:

dags wrote:

Thank you for all the advice you have given.  I think I will try approaching the mosque for help. No need to rush.  Yes I am in Leeds.  It would be nice to find someone nearby.  As you have said there a lot of things to consider.  Travel.  Visa depending on the motive.  If its meant to happen it will.  I have lost nothing being alone so far.  In fact I have peace.  If there is someone out there I will find. 
Once again thanks for the advice.

Totally agree. Well said.

I was actually in a similar situation as you in the past.  I decided to get married, and those I came across here in the UK, were not to my taste. I gave up searching (maybe too easily and too early), and chose to go to morocco (to meet the family of my moroccan neighbours of 15 years, for possible marriage), thinking it will solve my problem of not finding someone conservative and family-oriented, amongst other values I was seeking. I couldn't be more wrong. What I realized in morocco, is they will put up an act to impress you. What I mean by that is, if you tell them that you're looking for someone religious, then they will act as that person, by wearing the hijab and whatever else required, in order to convince you. I was sent photo's of that person, fully covered, hijab, and everything. Later on, when using their computer in morocco, I found pictures of her in very different clothing. Even the manner in which she carries out salah, was incorrect.

I had trusted my moroccan neighbours (another mistake), who told me, she is the type I'm looking for. What one needs to know is, they are happy to plan behind your back, if it benefits their family. So they didn't care about me at all, and were happy to deceive me, in order for their family to benefit, by bringing her here. I ended up losing quite a lot of money on this relationship. I had completed all the paper-work, travelled 5 times, and everything was done. By the way, you did mention fiancee visa. I had also asked her that in the past, as I was sick of all the paper-work that had to be done in morocco, as it's much easier in the UK, but I don't think they would be provided with one, as she told me she can't get it.

All in all, it was my fault. I rushed, I was too trusting, I didn't do my homework and carry out a thorough research regarding moroccan marriage scams, I gave up the search too easily and too early in the UK, I didn't look at other options, such as searching in other Western countries (where visa won't be a motivation for marriage). I'm 26. I'm not desperate at all to settle down. My family is religious, and kept telling me it's my religious duty to get married. I agreed with them, and went ahead to get it done. I've learned a lot over the course of the relationship. And based on my experience and knowledge, I advise people wishing to go to morocco, not to do so, as most likely they will end up the same way I did, or worse. While it's true we can't judge everyone the same, but what makes that person any different to the other scammers? It's very difficult to tell, as lying is very common in that country. They will tell you everything that they know you want to hear & will agree with. They will all act, as they know what the plan is. It's funny how they were so "kind" and "friendly" when I was there, and the moment I told them I no longer want to continue, they all started shouting and swearing, wanting to fight me, revealing their true colours. A lot of people come back, and tell me, "the family were so nice". Of course they will be "nice" if you're there to take their daughter to Europe. Try telling them that you don't want the relationship any more, then see how nice they really are...

Avoid morocco like the plague

Quite agree- wish I had listened to that old saying.......'marry in haste, regret at leisure'

TariqTaz wrote:

laduqesa wrote:

TariqTaz wrote:

My wife's family seem to always need money- someone's baby sick, one needs the optician, fridge broke down, boy needs book, girl needs trainers etc etc
I did turn down a demand from the wife early in the marriage because 'I'm coming from Europe- I need my own car and appartment'...!?!
Any holiday there- which was atleast once a year = on average £2,000 spending money- I say 'spending money' but her family would spend this money....e.g. an uncle- all year ok- see's us, and it's like, oh my back, my back'- ok uncle here's 200 dhs to see a Dr!
I've begun to break into a cold sweat whenever I hear the words 'attuny floos!...

That sounds so familiar. I've seen it 1000 times before. And from the inside. These "disasters" are a pack of lies, as you have realised if only from your story of the uncle's back being fine all year till he sees you and your wife. I congratulate you on staying together even though she was clearly an accomplice and a part of this cheating you of every penny you had until, as you recount, you were declared bankrupt.

As for the credit cards, don't worry about them, they are very un-Islamic! 

Yes, very true.......and there is no temptation to fill up a trolley in Marjan and stick it on the card!
As for staying with wife, well that's the other thing that was mentioned earlier- after being desperate for marriage, the  woman becomes desperate for a kid- and when you have kids it's harder to walk away.
The fact she is still with me suggests it wasn't a straight forward gold digging job- but you get older and wiser.
Would I do it again- I'd be single for a much longer time , and learn to run a mile whenever someone mentions floos, mon-eey, western union, arra arra etc

I filled up the trolley at Marjan, it was mostly filled with stuff her sister (who got married a week earlier by the way), asked her to get, and another sister, who wanted things too! If that's not bad enough, they didn't even try to hide it. The moment we got back home, the sisters opened the bags and took their stuff as if they ordered a home delivery! Leaving only 1 bag, which contained the few things for the girl. The sister got married to a guy who works in a relatively good job, and the other sister is a teacher. They really took the biscuit, as there is no reason at all for me to pay for things when they can easily afford it themselves!

I disagree with you. I think it was a straight-forward gold-digging job. But living in the UK, and experiencing life here in person, they begin to realize, setting foot in Europe doesn't make you automatically rich, that money doesn't grow on trees, and that when you have kids, life changes completely, and at times, it's better to stay married, than a single parent. When I asked my mother, why she married my father, she said because she was told of his plans to come to the UK. When she arrived here, she decided she wanted to have kids from early, as she wanted a few. So I was born here. They've had problems for years, ever since the early days of their marriage. I asked her why did she remain with him for two decades, I asked my father the same question, they both simply said it was for our sake (me and my 4 brothers), so that we grow up with both parents, with more stability, emotionally & financially better off than living with a single parent. After we all grew up, including the youngest, they divorced, which was always a question of 'when', not 'if'. If I had continued with my ex and brought her here from Morocco, and had a child with her, there is a chance she would remain reluctantly with me, if she cared about the child, as she and the child would be better off, than alone. If she doesn't, then she would divorce me and move on.

By the way, TariqTaz, that "lon1" person you quoted, is me. I was also "oinkoink". My new choice of username, is based on the fact I'm not welcomed on this site, I'm seen as a Shaytan, for my comments about Moroccan marriages. The truth can be bitter as they say.

Guests can't post on this site, only registered members. So when you see "guest", it means the person has been banned, which is what's going to happen to me yet again. Before they ban me, I would like to say Eid Mubarak!

Iblees wrote:

By the way, TariqTaz, that "lon1" person you quoted, is me. I was also "oinkoink". My new choice of username, is based on the fact I'm not welcomed on this site, I'm seen as a Shaytan, for my comments about Moroccan marriages. The truth can be bitter as they say.

I am sad that you, like me, have had such a negative experience.
In discussing this topic, obviously not all Moroccans are out to rip you off nor all the girls visa/gold diggers.

But there are many young, vulnerable, guys here who, for whatever reason have struggled to find a UK wife and thought, 'why not Morocco?'......a short (& cheap) flight to the UK, a Muslim country, a wife covered, knows Arabic etc.

Anyone in this situation must really have a good think about the dangers involved- it's easy when you are young, foolish, easily led and in, at times, a magical country like Morocco to get easily drawn in, and I wish there were forums like these around at the time to warn me against my own stupidity.

I also have relatives in jobs (teacher, dentist) but the thing is, whether its Marjan, a hotel stay or restaurant, it's like, 'you're from Europe- you're paying...'

One of the worst things that happened to me was getting in cheap flight to Fez, and then travelling to Meknes, where the family was.
I was quite happy with the cheap flight, but the problem happened going back home.
Her cousin & wife say they are going to Fez anyway for a holiday, so we all can go together.
To cut a long story short, I ended up forking out for this couple, 3 other relatives as well as my own family!!
The couple did not even have swimwear with them- so much for 'going on holiday anyway'
Eid Mubarak to you and all as well!

TariqTaz wrote:

Iblees wrote:

By the way, TariqTaz, that "lon1" person you quoted, is me. I was also "oinkoink". My new choice of username, is based on the fact I'm not welcomed on this site, I'm seen as a Shaytan, for my comments about Moroccan marriages. The truth can be bitter as they say.

I am sad that you, like me, have had such a negative experience.
In discussing this topic, obviously not all Moroccans are out to rip you off nor all the girls visa/gold diggers.

But there are many young, vulnerable, guys here who, for whatever reason have struggled to find a UK wife and thought, 'why not Morocco?'......a short (& cheap) flight to the UK, a Muslim country, a wife covered, knows Arabic etc.

Anyone in this situation must really have a good think about the dangers involved- it's easy when you are young, foolish, easily led and in, at times, a magical country like Morocco to get easily drawn in, and I wish there were forums like these around at the time to warn me against my own stupidity.

I also have relatives in jobs (teacher, dentist) but the thing is, whether its Marjan, a hotel stay or restaurant, it's like, 'you're from Europe- you're paying...'

One of the worst things that happened to me was getting in cheap flight to Fez, and then travelling to Meknes, where the family was.
I was quite happy with the cheap flight, but the problem happened going back home.
Her cousin & wife say they are going to Fez anyway for a holiday, so we all can go together.
To cut a long story short, I ended up forking out for this couple, 3 other relatives as well as my own family!!
The couple did not even have swimwear with them- so much for 'going on holiday anyway'
Eid Mubarak to you and all as well!

I'm not upset by the experience, as I believe it's Qadr, and many lessons have been learned from it. I've taken a lot of positives out of it, and ignored the negatives. Money comes and goes. Knowledge & wisdom stays.

Surely not everyone is the same, and out to exploit you, but I can say with confidence, the likelihood of finding an honest & genuine person is pretty much a needle in a haystack.

I didn't struggle to find someone in the UK. I've known her family for 15 years here. Thought of them as great neighbours, very religious, so and so. Out of the family friends we knew, we trusted them a lot, probably the most. I've always planned to marry someone we know or our friends know/related to, someone part of our circle, rather than a complete stranger. It may have been a bad idea to limit it to this circle, rather than look everywhere, but anyway, that's what happened. I'm not the type of person that has girls as contacts. I've attended boys-only schools, my parents were very strict with mixing with the opposite gender. So when it came to marriage, naturally I found it easier to involve my family, and let them take the lead. So they ended up talking to the family-friends, and that led to the relationship taking place.

I didn't see Morocco as a close-by Muslim country. In fact, I didn't care about Morocco. I just saw the girl as belonging to a family, we thought, were respectable, and shared the same values as us. I didn't personally care which country she was from. Values was my only concern.

I always knew the dangers involved, but this was a neice of a woman that would wash the dead bodies (female of course!) at the Masjid with my mother. Who in earth would think this "religious" woman would mislead us about marriage, telling us great things about her neice? We would never think she would plan this for the purpose of her niece obtaining a UK residency. But it's a often cold & cruel World we live inc, as you said before. People take you by surprise.

I did a lot of forking out. Glad that's all in the past. At the time I felt sorry for them, assuming that they felt ashamed to say they can't afford it so made up lies, which I obviously knew were lies. They could afford it, but better make someone else pay for it. Yet another of the many lessons I learned. I don't intend to return back any time soon. Morocco doesn't miss me, and I for one, sure in heck don't miss it!

This topic has now made me question the lady I have been in a relationship for 2  years.  On the subject of marriage and money.  She seems to say in a marriage her money is hers to do whatever she feels like without having to explain to the husband.  Whether she buys herself clothing or for me including sending money to her mother that would be her decision.  When I tried to say in a marriage the union will not work especially in Europe where a couple need to help each other she did not seem to understand.  I put this to the upbringing where she expects the man to do everything in the house provide for her and in that scenario does not have to work.
There the reason she puts it that way.

This has now made me think of breaking this relationship before it gets far.  Enjoy myself and not think of getting married.

Lol. I also  was given Morroccan shoes.  Went through the engagement.  Marriage meant to be November.  At the moment all on hold while I think of the next move.

dags wrote:

Lol. I also  was given Morroccan shoes.  Went through the engagement.  Marriage meant to be November.  At the moment all on hold while I think of the next move.

Don't put it on hold. End it now before you are destroyed in one way or another.

They will beg, scream and shout. You'll get emails, phone calls, pleadings. Stand firm. Once they see that you aren't going to marry, you'll see them for what they really are. The threats will start, the insults. They will say the most terrible things about you. It will be clear that you were only a tool.

dags wrote:

Lol. I also  was given Morroccan shoes.  Went through the engagement.  Marriage meant to be November.  At the moment all on hold while I think of the next move.

Once you pay the Mahr/Dowry, you won't, and I mean won't, see it ever again, no matter what (even if you divorce literally the next minute). The moment you hand it over & it's in her hands, that's it, you've lost your money already. Not only did I lose a lot of money on the Mahr, but I also paid for the Jewellery, gifts and other things, which I likewise can't get back. I returned to the UK after the so-called "marriage". Once I realized the scam, which was obvious from the start (but like many victims of sham marriages/marriages of convenience, I was blind to it), I divorced her. In the court papers that was sent to me in the UK, it stated clearly, that they will not be returning a single thing. Not even 1 Dirham. So I have a court case in Morocco, but won't be entitled to anything back! You may wonder what's the point of attending, and what's the point of this court-case... Well they simply want me there because I would be faced with compensation and losing even more money to them! I had asked them to send the divorce papers, but they instead went to a Lawyer, and now trying to get me to attend court even though I've already lost before even going, because it's written I'm not getting anything back! It's obvious why they want me there! To hand them over more cash! Under Islamic Laws, I believe I should be entitled to half of the things I gave, if the person did not have sexual intercourse. But this is Morocco, and like many people have already told me, she will say that we did. I won't be surprised if there is a huge list of lies that she plans to say in court.

Basically, look, I'm not telling you what to do. It's your choice. In the event that you decide to get married, you should delay giving the Mahr/Jewellery/gifts etc, until she arrives in the UK. And the Mahr could be given in stages over an agreed period of time. Bottom line is, anything you give them, won't be returned. Unless you want to hire a Lawyer, which would only add to your losses. I had to cut my losses, accept my mistake, and move on.

Fortunately a British-Pakistani guy, who went to Morocco 4 times, completed all the paper-work, and was left with only the marriage contract to sign, followed my advice, and decided against returning a 5th time to tie the knot. He posted on this site a few month ago, asking if it was normal, for his Moroccan partner, to make him spend so much money on shopping and so on, i.e whether she is a gold-digger. He had added me on Skype, and since I went to Morocco 5 times, he was able to relate to my experience, and realized like mine, it was a scam.

And Dags, on your Profile, you mention you're Zimbabwean. Like me and the British-Pakistani, I really question whether you would be genuinely accepted into the family. I'm mixed Egyptian/Sudanese, and was not accepted. Racism does exist there. I was only tolerated until she receives her UK Spouse Visa, and then residency. Answer this honestly... Did you stay with them in their house or a Hotel? Did you meet her extended family? Did they introduce you to their friends and neighbours? Or did they keep you a secret, and you simply spent the time in Morocco doing paper-work instead of mingling with her family and friends? I'm convinced I know the answer. I bet the only thing you did there was the paper-work, and her family & friends don't know about you. If I'm right, you know what to do next.

laduqesa wrote:

dags wrote:

Lol. I also  was given Morroccan shoes.  Went through the engagement.  Marriage meant to be November.  At the moment all on hold while I think of the next move.

Don't put it on hold. End it now before you are destroyed in one way or another.

They will beg, scream and shout. You'll get emails, phone calls, pleadings. Stand firm. Once they see that you aren't going to marry, you'll see them for what they really are. The threats will start, the insults. They will say the most terrible things about you. It will be clear that you were only a tool.

Absolutely true. I received text messages, asking me to stop playing games, to "fear God", that divorce isn't something to take lightly as a Muslim, as if I'm doing a very sinful thing by putting a stop to the scam and my losses! I'm the victim, not them! Some of them were asking me, "what's wrong with you, what's going on? lets talk about this", as if I've suddenly lost the plot. The truth is I've long lost the plot already by getting married there! I was finally waking up, growing a brain, that's what was "wrong" with me! When religious & emotional blackmail wasn't working for them, they got the husband of her aunt involved. He was pretending to be my "friend", and even promised, that if I stuck with my decision to divorce, that he would still be a "brother" to me, and would meet me in Morocco, and personally be responsible for ensuring my things are returned back. So I received a text the following day, "let me know when you want to go, I will meet you there and get your stuff back, then we will go to court and finish this for you". I told him I'm not going, that if they are serious about giving me anything back, why can't they start off by sending the money via Western Union? "it's only £60, get EasyJet, you will be there in 3 hours, we will meet at the airport, I will drive you, and you will have all your stuff back, no need to waste time, lets do this". Again, I kept asking the same question. I even said I'm happy to accept a fraction of what I gave (as I knew they won't even send that!). After he realized I'm not going, well he obviously assumed since I was stupid enough to get married in Morocco and lose a lot of money, that I would be stupid enough to return there and believe his promises, and fall right into their plans of getting beating up, he started to swear and the following messages were simply insults, which I prefer not to repeat on this site, given their derogatory nature. I asked him, "Ya habibi, ya sadeeqi, I thought I was your brother?", that enraged him more, and he admitted I was completely nothing to them, not even worth the dirt at the bottom of his shoes, that they had zero interest in me, and were only using me, and will find another "idiot" like me.

I hesitate to post! I've already given my advice to Dags and others, which is not to go through with it for the many, many reasons advanced here. Their cases fall into the classic pattern of the Moroccan marriage scam and I'm only answering because they have doubts or have found out too late. So this is relevant to the thread.

The problem is that, of course, a very small percentage of these marriages works. So everyone who is smitten hopes that they will be one of the lucky ones. Nothing could be further from the truth. The people posting here with doubts can already see that they are being sucked into a never-ending whirlpool of giving, giving, giving. They see that they are expected to provide huge dowries just because they are foreigners. That a supposedly respectable girl is asking for large sums way before marriage should give pause for thought.

Act on your instincts guys. If it smells wrong, it is wrong. Don't be Western-polite and conscience-stricken and think that you have to go through with it from some misguided sense of morality and probity. Be assured that the families aren't thinking that way about you! They will do anything to sucker you in. Get out before you are ruined financially to the extreme of being made bankrupt (as one person posting upthread was) or divorced and half your assets, if you managed to keep any, gone to your ex. Just don't do it if you have the slightest doubts

I apologise to those who have married successfully in this fashion. But if life is a bet, the odds aren't good enough for me to take this one and nor should anyone else. It's just too liable to go wrong.

I find it interesting, that people take a lot of time, in choosing their partners, when they are looking in the country they live in, give it a lot of careful thought, even when visa isn't a motivation for marriage & is out of the question. The search could go on for many years, as they seek to find the right person who matches what they are looking for. They choose carefully, they are calm and do things at their own pace & convenience. They are choosy. This is the right approach, as marriage is a lifetime commitment, not a decision to take lightly. But when it comes to third world countries, they seem to lose all common sense, lose their personalities, their pickiness, don't put much consideration into it, rush off and get married, to someone who they only know via e-mails/texts/skype/facebook, and see a few times a year at most, a person who is literally a stranger to them.

Can you say with confidence, this person isn't already in a relationship? No. Can you say with confidence, this person is who they say they are? No. Can you say with confidence, visa and/or money isn't a motivation? No. Can you as a matter of fact, say anything with confidence, about this person? No. Do you know them in person? No. Does a sensible person make a lifetime commitment to someone who they haven't lived with, haven't gotten to know in person, for a considerable period of time? No.

This goes for any long-distance relationship, even those from developed countries that don't require a Spouse Visa. I'm talking in general, not specifically about Morocco. Strange that people won't rush and marry a girl living in a European country, they would take their time, just as they do at home, but rush to marry those living in the third world.

dags wrote:

Lol. I also  was given Morroccan shoes.  Went through the engagement.  Marriage meant to be November.  At the moment all on hold while I think of the next move.

LOL yes, i was given the pointy Moroccan shoes too!
Before you know it, you will be filling up trollies from Marjan, Carrefor etc for the family, helping to bring akti, hoya, ummi etc to Europe, US, as well as paying a monthly salary to wasters who just want to live off your hard-earned floooss and don't to work!

Morocco- great for a holiday- but just bring a T-shirt back...it will be much cheaper in the long term!

A Moroccan marrying a Moroccan - Marrying one person & being their provider.

A foreigner marrying a Moroccan -  Marrying the entire family & being the family provider.

TariqTaz wrote:

lon1 wrote:

dags wrote:

Thank you for all the advice you have given.  I think I will try approaching the mosque for help. No need to rush.  Yes I am in Leeds.  It would be nice to find someone nearby.  As you have said there a lot of things to consider.  Travel.  Visa depending on the motive.  If its meant to happen it will.  I have lost nothing being alone so far.  In fact I have peace.  If there is someone out there I will find. 
Once again thanks for the advice.

Totally agree. Well said.

I was actually in a similar situation as you in the past.  I decided to get married, and those I came across here in the UK, were not to my taste. I gave up searching (maybe too easily and too early), and chose to go to morocco (to meet the family of my moroccan neighbours of 15 years, for possible marriage), thinking it will solve my problem of not finding someone conservative and family-oriented, amongst other values I was seeking. I couldn't be more wrong. What I realized in morocco, is they will put up an act to impress you. What I mean by that is, if you tell them that you're looking for someone religious, then they will act as that person, by wearing the hijab and whatever else required, in order to convince you. I was sent photo's of that person, fully covered, hijab, and everything. Later on, when using their computer in morocco, I found pictures of her in very different clothing. Even the manner in which she carries out salah, was incorrect.

I had trusted my moroccan neighbours (another mistake), who told me, she is the type I'm looking for. What one needs to know is, they are happy to plan behind your back, if it benefits their family. So they didn't care about me at all, and were happy to deceive me, in order for their family to benefit, by bringing her here. I ended up losing quite a lot of money on this relationship. I had completed all the paper-work, travelled 5 times, and everything was done. By the way, you did mention fiancee visa. I had also asked her that in the past, as I was sick of all the paper-work that had to be done in morocco, as it's much easier in the UK, but I don't think they would be provided with one, as she told me she can't get it.

All in all, it was my fault. I rushed, I was too trusting, I didn't do my homework and carry out a thorough research regarding moroccan marriage scams, I gave up the search too easily and too early in the UK, I didn't look at other options, such as searching in other Western countries (where visa won't be a motivation for marriage). I'm 26. I'm not desperate at all to settle down. My family is religious, and kept telling me it's my religious duty to get married. I agreed with them, and went ahead to get it done. I've learned a lot over the course of the relationship. And based on my experience and knowledge, I advise people wishing to go to morocco, not to do so, as most likely they will end up the same way I did, or worse. While it's true we can't judge everyone the same, but what makes that person any different to the other scammers? It's very difficult to tell, as lying is very common in that country. They will tell you everything that they know you want to hear & will agree with. They will all act, as they know what the plan is. It's funny how they were so "kind" and "friendly" when I was there, and the moment I told them I no longer want to continue, they all started shouting and swearing, wanting to fight me, revealing their true colours. A lot of people come back, and tell me, "the family were so nice". Of course they will be "nice" if you're there to take their daughter to Europe. Try telling them that you don't want the relationship any more, then see how nice they really are...

Avoid morocco like the plague

Quite agree- wish I had listened to that old saying.......'marry in haste, regret at leisure'

yawn...

Meskien, what did he think? Like any other third world country people will marry you for the visa and visa only. Of course they don't care about you. Like duh!

Don't try to make it look like the marriage scams only happen in Morocco ..it happens in a lot of third world countries.

Maroc queen wrote:

TariqTaz wrote:

lon1 wrote:

Totally agree. Well said.

I was actually in a similar situation as you in the past.  I decided to get married, and those I came across here in the UK, were not to my taste. I gave up searching (maybe too easily and too early), and chose to go to morocco (to meet the family of my moroccan neighbours of 15 years, for possible marriage), thinking it will solve my problem of not finding someone conservative and family-oriented, amongst other values I was seeking. I couldn't be more wrong. What I realized in morocco, is they will put up an act to impress you. What I mean by that is, if you tell them that you're looking for someone religious, then they will act as that person, by wearing the hijab and whatever else required, in order to convince you. I was sent photo's of that person, fully covered, hijab, and everything. Later on, when using their computer in morocco, I found pictures of her in very different clothing. Even the manner in which she carries out salah, was incorrect.

I had trusted my moroccan neighbours (another mistake), who told me, she is the type I'm looking for. What one needs to know is, they are happy to plan behind your back, if it benefits their family. So they didn't care about me at all, and were happy to deceive me, in order for their family to benefit, by bringing her here. I ended up losing quite a lot of money on this relationship. I had completed all the paper-work, travelled 5 times, and everything was done. By the way, you did mention fiancee visa. I had also asked her that in the past, as I was sick of all the paper-work that had to be done in morocco, as it's much easier in the UK, but I don't think they would be provided with one, as she told me she can't get it.

All in all, it was my fault. I rushed, I was too trusting, I didn't do my homework and carry out a thorough research regarding moroccan marriage scams, I gave up the search too easily and too early in the UK, I didn't look at other options, such as searching in other Western countries (where visa won't be a motivation for marriage). I'm 26. I'm not desperate at all to settle down. My family is religious, and kept telling me it's my religious duty to get married. I agreed with them, and went ahead to get it done. I've learned a lot over the course of the relationship. And based on my experience and knowledge, I advise people wishing to go to morocco, not to do so, as most likely they will end up the same way I did, or worse. While it's true we can't judge everyone the same, but what makes that person any different to the other scammers? It's very difficult to tell, as lying is very common in that country. They will tell you everything that they know you want to hear & will agree with. They will all act, as they know what the plan is. It's funny how they were so "kind" and "friendly" when I was there, and the moment I told them I no longer want to continue, they all started shouting and swearing, wanting to fight me, revealing their true colours. A lot of people come back, and tell me, "the family were so nice". Of course they will be "nice" if you're there to take their daughter to Europe. Try telling them that you don't want the relationship any more, then see how nice they really are...

Avoid morocco like the plague

Quite agree- wish I had listened to that old saying.......'marry in haste, regret at leisure'

yawn...

Meskien, what did he think? Like any other third world country people will marry you for the visa and visa only. Of course they don't care about you. Like duh!

Don't try to make it look like the marriage scams only happen in Morocco ..it happens in a lot of third world countries.

Ermmm... this is the Moroccan forum, and a thread about marriage to a Moroccan, hence they are talking about Morocco & not the rest of the world?   

If Morocco doesn't top the list (of marriages of convenience), it's certainly up there. 

'' It's much better to stay
single & at peace ''
yes, I totally agree with you.
My principle is : better to live
alone than to be in bad company.

tachlhit d'Agadir_1979 wrote:

'' It's much better to stay
single & at peace ''
yes, I totally agree with you.
My principle is : better to live
alone than to be in bad company.

I don't understand. I don't speak French, but after translating, you have on your profile;

Pour le moment je n'ai pas l'intention de m'expatrier

Meaning - At the moment I have no intention to go abroad ?

Needless to say, why are you on an expat website? The same questioned can be asked to 80% of members on this forum, who happen to be Moroccans, living in Morocco, with a large portion of them here to "help" us and the rest wanting to meet to "exchange culture", whatever that is supposed to mean. Are we to believe, people decide to register on an expat website, because they are looking to spend their own time (without getting paid or any benefits!) to help expats? I didn't sign-up to this site, because I thought, "hey, I need to help those people thinking about moving to or visiting England! Whatever they need, I shall be there for them helping them!". Or sign-up to "exchange culture" with anyone. Or to send private messages, in an attempt to befriend foreigners for an ulterior motive. This website has it's purpose. It's in the name.

yes, actually I didn't intend to
leave my beloved country, at least
for the moment, but we don't
know what we hide fate. I say this
because my parents need my
presence at their side, plus I have
a stable job lhamdolillah which
allows me to live with dignity, so I
didn't need a visa for Europe or
USA.
you asked me why I am
on this site, sincerely I registered
on this site to build relationships
of friendship with English-
speaking women to help me learn
to speak English, because my level
is really very low, and the second
reason is that I hope to marry a
Muslim convert who lives in the
city of Agadir, or who would be
willing to come and live in Agadir.
but after reading what was written
in this discussion about marriage
with a Moroccan, I started
thinking about this idea of
​​marrying a Muslim convert, is it
going to work or not, because for
me it's better to keep the single
status to bear the divorcee status.

I would like to add
one thing, being a Moroccan
woman, it's really unfortunate to
hear these things of Moroccan
women, it's really shameful, for
some people marriage is no longer
a sacred bond, but one thing is
certain; all Moroccan women are
not the same, there are those that
are honest and sincere.

I just want to tell you that I used
a translation site to post my
answer.

So you're looking for a Muslim convert to marry, in other-words and to be frank, a non-Moroccan Western expat to marry. Exactly my thoughts as to why you're on this site. But don't worry, you're not alone, but one of many who are here for the same reason or similar. Looking for an expat to marry.

I have seen your input on this subject.  My initial message was that I had indicated that I was in touch with a Morocco woman who I wanted to marry.  My problems are that Morrocco asks for a lot of documents of which I can not obtain one.  Which means no marriage.  Based on that subject a number of people have advised me not to marry a woman from Morocco. 
I am at a stage that I do not know what to do.  Yes I want someone.  However I want it to last.  I am not a young man and at the same time I want the woman to understand that when you marry in the west its a partnership not one sidedicated affair.  When a woman works she should help out not a situation that her money is hers.  Yes in islam that may be the case however in order to do well unless you marry a rich man then you have to help.

exactly, but don't want to leave
my country because I want my
future children insha'Allah grow
up in an Islamic society. but we
must also not forget the other
reason!
but sincerely I didn't yet
seriously looked into the matter
(looking for a converted husband)
because I am still hesitant.

You can bring up children in islam anywhere.  As for marrying a converted person as long as he does not change it's fine.  Just like scams. Some people do it for the sake of sleeping with muslim women.   Some men go to north Africa make nikka . Sleep with the woman then divorce her. So its men from the west who also abuse women in the name of Islam.

dags wrote:

I have seen your input on this subject.  My initial message was that I had indicated that I was in touch with a Morocco woman who I wanted to marry.  My problems are that Morrocco asks for a lot of documents of which I can not obtain one.  Which means no marriage.  Based on that subject a number of people have advised me not to marry a woman from Morocco. 
I am at a stage that I do not know what to do.  Yes I want someone.  However I want it to last.  I am not a young man and at the same time I want the woman to understand that when you marry in the west its a partnership not one sidedicated affair.  When a woman works she should help out not a situation that her money is hers.  Yes in islam that may be the case however in order to do well unless you marry a rich man then you have to help.

There is good reasons why they advised you not to marry a woman from there. It's based on the high rate of divorces, problems that generally arise from involving yourself in this type of relationship, a lot of people have warned others after finding themselves in all sorts of trouble because of it, be it financial or emotional (TariqTaz here on this thread has posted his own experience!), and others which could be looked up online if you care. This problem isn't limited to them only, but anyone from any third-world country. People want to get out, to study abroad, work abroad, or whatever it is they have in mind, and the only way, and I mean it, their only way out is via the marriage route, hence why it's regularly abused, and many have found themselves divorced after their partner has obtained residency, simply because they were from the start, nothing other than a means to an end.

dags wrote:

You can bring up children in islam anywhere.  As for marrying a converted person as long as he does not change it's fine.  Just like scams. Some people do it for the sake of sleeping with muslim women.   Some men go to north Africa make nikka . Sleep with the woman then divorce her. So its men from the west who also abuse women in the name of Islam.

That may have happened in the past, but not any more. The length it takes for someone to successfully marry in Morocco, means that such a thing very rarely happens. The trouble that you have to go through, to get all the required paper-work, in both your home-country, and in Morocco, which is costly and time-consuming, no one in their right mind would do all that just for a one-night stand with a women. It's simply not worth it. Especially as there are many locations in the country that already serve that purpose! Quicker & cheaper! 

You are right about marrying in Morocco.  The hassle you go through to marry someone there is like I am trying to get residence there.  The cost of running around the number of documents required approximately 7 is too much.  One has on top of that has to prove you are born muslim despite the names.  It's like the government does not want foreign men marrying there. One simply gives up in the end.

dags wrote:

You are right about marrying in Morocco.  The hassle you go through to marry someone there is like I am trying to get residence there.  The cost of running around the number of documents required approximately 7 is too much.  One has on top of that has to prove you are born muslim despite the names.  It's like the government does not want foreign men marrying there. One simply gives up in the end.

I don't know, but I assume it's a mixture of 2 reasons, why the procedure has been toughened:

- Foreigners "marrying" a Moroccan, only to dump them later on when they leave Morocco. For example, I've heard of certain groups, which I won't mention, but they are Muslim, and before anyone says anything, I'm Muslim myself, so anyway, they come to Morocco for sex tourism, and in order to make their actions "halal", to "halalize" it, for want of a better word, they get "married" knowing full well it's only temporary, then stay with the Moroccan (taking advantage of them) until they depart, then never return back. And then when the woman ends up pregnant with his child, he is no where to be seen again. So you can imagine the harm that they leave behind, so it's a good idea to toughen up the process so people simply don't turn up, do what they want & leave, without facing the consequences of their actions.

- Moroccans "marrying" foreigners. There has been cases where a foreigner goes on holiday, and the next thing is they are marrying someone they've came across. Or someone they've met online etc And then it ends up in disaster later on, which was always inevitable and bound to happen.

So in both cases, you can see why they needed to change the marriage process and toughen it up to lessen the harm quick marriages caused.

Moroccan authorities certainly
require a lot of documents for
abroad to marry a Moroccan in the
goal of protecting the Moroccan
women, because there are many
cases of mixed marriages where
Moroccan women have been
victims of fraud, blackmail, lies
and violance by their foreign
husbands.

tachlhit d'Agadir_1979 wrote:

Moroccan authorities certainly
require a lot of documents for
abroad to marry a Moroccan in the
goal of protecting the Moroccan
women, because there are many
cases of mixed marriages where
Moroccan women have been
victims of fraud, blackmail, lies
and violance by their foreign
husbands.

And likewise there have been many cases of mixed marriages where the foreigner has been on the receiving end.

Yes I know of a certain group of men one particular background.  They leave their wives behind and do all these bad things.  Yet they would kill their daughters if they went out with someone outside the family approval.  One even told me they go to Tunisia because it's not as strict. We call ourselves muslims and do not practice it. 
Anyway if I am meant to have someone it will happen.  I cannot fortell the future only the almighty knows.

So definitely nowadays marriage
has become very complicated,
whether a citizen or a foreigner,
and this because of the lack of
trust and good faith.

dags wrote:

Yes I know of a certain group of men one particular background.  They leave their wives behind and do all these bad things.  Yet they would kill their daughters if they went out with someone outside the family approval.  One even told me they go to Tunisia because it's not as strict. We call ourselves muslims and do not practice it. 
Anyway if I am meant to have someone it will happen.  I cannot fortell the future only the almighty knows.

Yes, exactly. This is the exact group I'm talking about. I've came across them in Morocco. And I've even read online, a woman complaining that her husband has been constantly making trips to Morocco (without good cause). And as you said, if they find their daughter together with someone they didn't approve of, they would kill her (honour killing). If it was their wives travelling without a good reason, they would never allow her to do that, yet they are happy to continue travelling without reason & doing whatever they want.

tachlhit d'Agadir_1979 wrote:

So definitely nowadays marriage
has become very complicated,
whether a citizen or a foreigner,
and this because of the lack of
trust and good faith.

Not only lack of trust and good faith. But a huge difference in culture between the West & East, and I think that is the major reason why many of these relationships fail. For example, here, marriage is viewed as a partnership. Both work, and share in the running of the household. In contrast to the man being expected to pay for everything, and to make matters worse, the woman saving up her own money and keeping it safe. When I was in a relationship with a Moroccan, she told me, "my money is mine". So that means the only money being spent is mine, and she chooses how she spends "hers". Personally, my money isn't "mine". I view it as belonging to the household. I view anything that anyone in the household has, and brings into the house (which isn't a personal item), belonging to the household collectively.  For example, if my son bought a new t.v, it won't be "his" t.v. It would belong to us all equally, and we can all use it. And if he starts bringing in money, then I expect him to take responsibility and help out towards the running costs of the house to the best of his ability. Likewise, the money she brings in, should belong to the household, rather than belong to her, and expect me to pay for everything. A family should work together as a team, rather than have one doing all the work.

XB23 wrote:

tachlhit d'Agadir_1979 wrote:

So definitely nowadays marriage
has become very complicated,
whether a citizen or a foreigner,
and this because of the lack of
trust and good faith.

Not only lack of trust and good faith. But a huge difference in culture between the West & East, and I think that is the major reason why many of these relationships fail. For example, here, marriage is viewed as a partnership. Both work, and share in the running of the household. In contrast to the man being expected to pay for everything, and to make matters worse, the woman saving up her own money and keeping it safe. When I was in a relationship with a Moroccan, she told me, "my money is mine". So that means the only money being spent is mine, and she chooses how she spends "hers". Personally, my money isn't "mine". I view it as belonging to the household. I view anything that anyone in the household has, and brings into the house (which isn't a personal item), belonging to the household collectively.  For example, if my son bought a new t.v, it won't be "his" t.v. It would belong to us all equally, and we can all use it. And if he starts bringing in money, then I expect him to take responsibility and help out towards the running costs of the house to the best of his ability. Likewise, the money she brings in, should belong to the household, rather than belong to her, and expect me to pay for everything. A family should work together as a team, rather than have one doing all the work.

but what you do not know is that,
according to official statistics, 20 to
25% of Moroccan households are
headed by women, heads of families
and sing working. much of Moroccan women
employed share household expenses
with their
husbands, participate in the
acquisition of housing, car, school
fees for
their children etc ..., the Moroccan
woman is hardworking, she is of
enormous sacrifices for the
happiness of his home, but
unfortunately this is
to the detriment of his health, I
have a colleague at work who started
having heart problems, the doctor
asked him to talk to him a little
about
his daily life she told him she works
outside the home, she takes care of
shopping, paying the bills, bring the
kids from school, preparing meals,
cleans the house, assists children in
homework, caring for her husband ...
etc, so unfortunately the doctor told
him that's the problem of Moroccan
women "Must do everything" and he
advises her to find some time to take
care her and do sports and romp.
In Morocco the mentality of women
has evolved through against the
mentality of man not in fact a large
part of young Moroccans when they
decide to get married, they look for a
woman employed to help in
household
expenses , but in return they will
not agree to help their wives with
the
housework, in fact they seek a
woman who is in two places at once,
moreover
it is also the case in Western
countries, in the late least for
France,
there are about 2 years I read an
article about the causes of the
increase
in the divorce rate in France, and of
these causes there are the problems
which operates between the woman
and her husband because of the
refusal of
man to help his wife with the
housework, the woman and the man
come home
from work, the woman goes directly
to the kitchen while her husband
sits on
the couch and takes a newspaper or
watch TV or a game, and of course
western
women do not accept this injustice
when she rebels against her
husband ...

First of all, I never said "all" Moroccan women don't want to contribute towards the cost of running a household. That is generalization, which I avoided!

In every country of the world, there are women who do work harder than their husband (my mother did!), lazy men who do not fulfil their responsibilities & leave it to their wives, so I'm certain that is also the case in Morocco.

But don't forget, the subject here is specifically "mixed-marriages" involving foreigners, and not "Moroccan women" in general, or "Moroccan married to a Moroccan" in Morocco. Now since we are on the subject of "mixed-marriages", there is a difference, and herein lies the problem.

The motivation for the marriage is in most cases (I didn't say all!), based on leaving the country (via obtaining a spouse visa). This can be due to many reasons, such as joblessness, poverty, wanting to study abroad, living off the welfare system of a country, and so on. So I can confidently say the majority of mixed-marriages is not with women who are in stable, decent paying jobs/from a middle-class background. Rather it's mainly from the lower-classes, unskilled, who will be financially dependent on you, while at the same time, trying to support her family back home, by sending them money. So the problem the foreign man faces is, continually supporting this person & the kids alone, while ensuring her family back home are also supported (either with his own money, hers, or a bit of both). The family only agrees to the marriage because it will benefit them financially. Otherwise, how many well-off respectable Moroccan families will agree to their daughter marrying the random non-Moroccan guy she found on facebook, skype, dating website?

Also you are talking about employed women. Many of the mixed-marriages, don't involve woman who are in good jobs. I don't want to say all, because it's against the site's rule to generalize, but I would say 99.99999%! Also women who are in good paying jobs, are not desperate to leave the country, won't be spending time online searching for someone, and hence marry any foreigner.

This, precisely, is the problem of mixed-marriages.

XB23 wrote:

First of all, I never said "all" Moroccan women don't want to contribute towards the cost of running a household. That is generalization, which I avoided!

In every country of the world, there are women who do work harder than their husband (my mother did!), lazy men who do not fulfil their responsibilities & leave it to their wives, so I'm certain that is also the case in Morocco.

But don't forget, the subject here is specifically "mixed-marriages" involving foreigners, and not "Moroccan women" in general, or "Moroccan married to a Moroccan" in Morocco. Now since we are on the subject of "mixed-marriages", there is a difference, and herein lies the problem.

The motivation for the marriage is in most cases (I didn't say all!), based on leaving the country (via obtaining a spouse visa). This can be due to many reasons, such as joblessness, poverty, wanting to study abroad, living off the welfare system of a country, and so on. So I can confidently say the majority of mixed-marriages is not with women who are in stable, decent paying jobs/from a middle-class background. Rather it's mainly from the lower-classes, unskilled, who will be financially dependent on you, while at the same time, trying to support her family back home, by sending them money. So the problem the foreign man faces is, continually supporting this person & the kids alone, while ensuring her family back home are also supported (either with his own money, hers, or a bit of both). The family only agrees to the marriage because it will benefit them financially. Otherwise, how many well-off respectable Moroccan families will agree to their daughter marrying the random non-Moroccan guy she found on facebook, skype, dating website?

Also you are talking about employed women. Many of the mixed-marriages, don't involve woman who are in good jobs. I don't want to say all, because it's against the site's rule to generalize, but I would say 99.99999%! Also women who are in good paying jobs, are not desperate to leave the country, won't be spending time online searching for someone, and hence marry any foreigner.

This, precisely, is the problem of mixed-marriages.

but there is another category of
girl who has a good level of
education, a good job, yet they
want to marry foreigners, not for
their visa or for their money but
for their mentality. I know girls
who are part of this category and
they are married to converts muslims and
they are happy in their marriage.

I'm sorry. I've heard of that excuse one too many. I think it's a very pathetic excuse. Very pathetic indeed, and is simply used to conveniently hide behind the real intention.

I challenge anyone who uses that excuse, which has led them to search for a foreigner to marry, to tell me exactly what is it that is different about a foreigner, that they couldn't find with a Moroccan?

What is this "mentality" that you're talking about, that is found amongst foreigners, that allegedly isn't among Moroccan men?

Your only option is to generalize, and tell me that Moroccan men have the "wrong" mentality, & that foreigners have the "right" mentality. That won't work. As not everyone is the same!

Hence it's a pathetic excuse!

XB23 wrote:

I'm sorry. I've heard of that excuse one too many. I think it's a very pathetic excuse. Very pathetic indeed, and is simply used to conveniently hide behind the real intention.

I challenge anyone who uses that excuse, which has led them to search for a foreigner to marry, to tell me exactly what is it that is different about a foreigner, that they couldn't find with a Moroccan?

What is this "mentality" that you're talking about, that is found amongst foreigners, that allegedly isn't among Moroccan men?

Your only option is to generalize, and tell me that Moroccan men have the "wrong" mentality, & that foreigners have the "right" mentality. That won't work. As not everyone is the same!

Hence it's a pathetic excuse!

it's your personal opinion, and I
respect, even if I don't agree with
you.
in life nothing is absolute, but everything is relative.
thank you.