Oh No Another Person Wanting to Move to Panama

Hi Wolf....
I was originally born and raised in Colorado (Boulder area)for 30 years of my life where I met and married a Panamanian....almost 17 years ago. My husband, myself and our two daughters have been living in LaChorrera, Panama for a little over 2 years now.
Exactly what sort of laws were you looking to get info. on?

I will tell you that ANY sort of legal/government process is timely, expensive, frustrating and frankly a pain in the rear! I have been trying to get a work permit and/or residency here for almost a year now and I haven't gotten very far. The only way I have been able to be employed here is through the "professional services" loophole. I will have to say that I have been blessed to experience being a teacher here....I have been a 1st grade homeroom teacher, an English and religion teacher for kids from 4th-11th grade and a college level English professor for adults earning their Bachelor's degree..... opportunities I would have never had in the States......but it's apparent that being married to a Panamanian doesn't give any special advantages to expediting the immigration process. Another difficulty I have run into.....and many others I have spoken to, is finding a lawyer who is reliable. I have gone through 2 lawyers who ended up being very unreliable and dishonest.....imagine that, a dishonest lawyer! :-).
I will have to agree with you.....Grigos(as) do tend to get treated differently here...sometimes good, usually bad. Many people here assume that if you're white, you have a lot of money and will be charged what I call the "Gringo price". Many will try to charge an extra 2 or 3 bucks for services and goods. Yeah....sometimes it's true that the white foreigners (Americans, Canadians, Europeans) here have mucho dinero. But, in my case, it's the farthest from the truth. My husband and I are working class....our kids go to the same schools as the Panamanian children, we don't live in the fancy gated communities that excludes us from the general population. We live in the same cinder block, concrete and zinc roofed house (w/o AC, mind you) that was built by my husband and his dad in the early 80's.....so we get the street vendors, loud cars (stereos and mufflers), stray dogs and chickens (12 of which we own ;-)). We drive the same kind of piece of crap car everyone else drives and we can't afford to shop in the Koala section of Albrook mall....just like everyone else.....I'm sure you get my point.
You have the benefit of being a pensionado and without young children. You will have the luxury of finding a lovely, quiet house out west and not have to worry about living close to the hustle and bustle of PC so that you can have a decent paying job. You also won't have to worry about the costs of sending your child(ren) to school....tuition, books, supplies, uniforms and the high cost of groceries adds up VERY quickly!
Sorry if this was all TMI.....I could seriously write a book on the good, bad and ugly of living here in Panama. In my short 36 years of life on this Earth, I can honestly say I have experienced more "life experiences" in the past 2 years. Some I wouldn't trade for anything in the world.....some I would.

Best of luck to you and congratulations on your up coming wedding!

Carmen

My editor has been in Panama for over 34 years and he's married to a Panamian.  I'm not sure what questions you are asking.  Do you mean to ask if you automatically get citizenship if you marry a Panamian? 

Give me a list of questions and I'll relay them to him and see if he'll chat with you.  He also has contacts all over the place for legal issues, etc.

In fact do you have a LinkedIn account?  I and he are on every expat group for Panama possible and lots of business people post questions and even complaints about professionals so it might be another avenue to use for information.

What city did you go too by the way that you found your Shangri-La?  Just curious.  We ended up in Boquete.  Not as much fishing there as what you can do in Boca Chica of course but I'm not sure what type of fishing you want.

Thank you Carmen and Flo for your kind response and your personal insights, the more information the better in my motto, so no worries on the TMI. I will try to be clearer, my words and thoughts can be lost in my ramblings. By the way Carmen, LOVE boulder! Better than Colorado Springs by a long mile. My Fiancée lived there for close to 10 years and I have a lot of history there as well. 

It will be my fiancée that will be looking for a job somewhere in the education field. Since she is Panamanian she able to work. We are not worried about her finding work since she really just wants to have a job just to keep her busy and to give back.

I have NO desire to work but playing. That is why I want to be close to water with fish and jungle to explore.  The type of fish I would like to catch is the edible kind. If I want another type I will go where they are to fill me need in that moment in time.

Oh the government!! With our little dealing we had with them getting a cedula and passport could be frustrating for most (almost was with us) but it was very comical in the whole event. It is going to be fun getting all the legal requirements to get married in Panama. I know getting to the right hospital for blood tests will be fun. IF we cannot get a Panama wedding license we have a plan B that we will still be legally married for Colorado requirements.  What I am looking for is a competent lawyer (if there is such a thing in this world) that can help me get through the process for the correct visa for an alien married to a Panamanian. I do not want to be an illegal alien and I do not want to play the exit and enter game to be a visiting visa.

Oh and I know about Gringo pricing, and I got the haggling, and banter back and forth price down pretty good. I got some of the vendors laughing that I know I go the Panama price. While in Panama I did not like shopping where all the expats were because of the price hike and there was no haggling. Even though a piña is only $1 and twice the size that I could ever get in Colorado I would still act that I was being over charged and got 25¢ to 50¢ knocked off. I had fun.   


Auntie Flo, your editor?? Tell me more….what is your story? I read about you and your husband’s experience in Boquete and I am sorry. Truly I am, and I hate hearing how people take advantage of others. As you know it happens here too. My fiancée had to advocate for one immigrant family being taken advantage by another immigrant landlord. That Panama blood came through and that landlord has been very reasonable after dealing with that passionate blood.

Shangri-La…….I do not think I found a Shangri-La but we were more at peace taking the highway between Chinqui and Almirante. The people were the people that my fiancée was warned about as a child and what we discovered were the best people we met while we were in Panama. Our rental car broke down on the highway. The locals came and helped, taxi drivers helped. They were awesome! They did not do this for money but to help another human in need. We actually felt more at ease and welcomed along this highway than anywhere else in our limited exposure in Panama.

This summer I want to head over to Boquete on a Tuesday morning and meet more expats and check out the area, then head over to David to explore a bit. Also I am very curious about Changuinola area in general. Boquete is for her and Changuinola is for me. Funny thing, the Gringo wants to be around more locals and the Panamanian wants more American expats. I am a simple man that has simple pleasures, she likes more conveniences. When we were on Isla Colon we felt we were in a tropical Boulder, CO.

I am on Linkedin as well. Who do I need to look up? I will send requests.

My direct questions:
What are the laws for an alien married to a Panamanian to get legal residency?
Can I get a cedula and passport too?
Know of any good lawyers in PC that specializes in immigration?

Cheers,
Wolf

Wolf,

Since you are on LinkedIn check out BOOM Panama. The guy who leads the group, his name is Dennis.  He has been in Panama 34 years.  He was married to a Panamian and he is the editor for several expat magazines (hence my editor).  We have had discussions on BOOM about good and bad lawyers, visa requirements for being in the country, etc. so I think that's a great resource. Lots of business people there of course so you get real answers to the tougher questions about living and investing in Panama.  And you'll see me answering questions on there too!

(Just a word of caution on Dennis however.  He is going through a divorce with his Panamian wife and its a sore subject I think, so for him, please tread lightly. Many thanks.)

I have no doubt that you found the people of Panama to be warm and friendly.  I didn't have any problems exploring the country.  It is however in the daily living that there are issues that people need to deal with and questions that should be asked. 

Did you check out the Bocas Del Toro area (not to far from Changuinola)?  We've been a couple of times and we've made some excellent contacts there.  It is a growing area and if you want things to do to explore let me know.  I can give you a week's worth of stuff just in that area.   And it might give you both what you want.  Boquete isn't going to give your fiance the shopping she wants however.  That will happen in David.  Boquete doesn't have malls or really good shopping.  Most everyone I know has to go into David.

And I've never found that being an expat is the tie that binds.  I don't want her disappointed if she doesn't meet expats that she likes.  It takes time to meet good people and many of the expats in Boquete don't participate in the daily expat community. So the longer you live in an area the more expats you will meet, many who have been in Panama over 10 years, but who do not participate in regular expat functions. 

I have contacts for car rentals, shuttle services hotel stays, you name it in Panama.  We made some excellent contacts and I have no problem in recommending them. And I know who I won't recommend. If you want that list before you go next let me know.

My story?    We are the new breed of expat.  It makes no sense to us to tie ourselves down to one country, or one city, or one home for the rest of our lives.  Been there and done that as we both climbed the corporate ladder.  The whole point in being an expat is to live less expensive lives.  There are so many countries one can do that in now.  And we intend to do just that, live in a new country every six months and explore it.  Will we live again in the US?  Sure.  But hopefully that day is at least 10 years from now.  So we did the Panama thing, we learned a lot and we know being tied down to one place isn't for us.  We are in Cuernavaca, Mexico until June and then in July we begin living in Scotland (that's the plan anyway).  We've been doing and traveling througout Latin America for two years and I've had enough third world living for a while.   

Stay warm. 

Best

Florence

Crynwolf wrote:

Thank you Carmen and Flo for your kind response and your personal insights, the more information the better in my motto, so no worries on the TMI. I will try to be clearer, my words and thoughts can be lost in my ramblings. By the way Carmen, LOVE boulder! Better than Colorado Springs by a long mile. My Fiancée lived there for close to 10 years and I have a lot of history there as well. 

It will be my fiancée that will be looking for a job somewhere in the education field. Since she is Panamanian she able to work. We are not worried about her finding work since she really just wants to have a job just to keep her busy and to give back.

I have NO desire to work but playing. That is why I want to be close to water with fish and jungle to explore.  The type of fish I would like to catch is the edible kind. If I want another type I will go where they are to fill me need in that moment in time.

Oh the government!! With our little dealing we had with them getting a cedula and passport could be frustrating for most (almost was with us) but it was very comical in the whole event. It is going to be fun getting all the legal requirements to get married in Panama. I know getting to the right hospital for blood tests will be fun. IF we cannot get a Panama wedding license we have a plan B that we will still be legally married for Colorado requirements.  What I am looking for is a competent lawyer (if there is such a thing in this world) that can help me get through the process for the correct visa for an alien married to a Panamanian. I do not want to be an illegal alien and I do not want to play the exit and enter game to be a visiting visa.

Oh and I know about Gringo pricing, and I got the haggling, and banter back and forth price down pretty good. I got some of the vendors laughing that I know I go the Panama price. While in Panama I did not like shopping where all the expats were because of the price hike and there was no haggling. Even though a piña is only $1 and twice the size that I could ever get in Colorado I would still act that I was being over charged and got 25¢ to 50¢ knocked off. I had fun.   


Auntie Flo, your editor?? Tell me more….what is your story? I read about you and your husband’s experience in Boquete and I am sorry. Truly I am, and I hate hearing how people take advantage of others. As you know it happens here too. My fiancée had to advocate for one immigrant family being taken advantage by another immigrant landlord. That Panama blood came through and that landlord has been very reasonable after dealing with that passionate blood.

Shangri-La…….I do not think I found a Shangri-La but we were more at peace taking the highway between Chinqui and Almirante. The people were the people that my fiancée was warned about as a child and what we discovered were the best people we met while we were in Panama. Our rental car broke down on the highway. The locals came and helped, taxi drivers helped. They were awesome! They did not do this for money but to help another human in need. We actually felt more at ease and welcomed along this highway than anywhere else in our limited exposure in Panama.

This summer I want to head over to Boquete on a Tuesday morning and meet more expats and check out the area, then head over to David to explore a bit. Also I am very curious about Changuinola area in general. Boquete is for her and Changuinola is for me. Funny thing, the Gringo wants to be around more locals and the Panamanian wants more American expats. I am a simple man that has simple pleasures, she likes more conveniences. When we were on Isla Colon we felt we were in a tropical Boulder, CO.

I am on Linkedin as well. Who do I need to look up? I will send requests.

My direct questions:
What are the laws for an alien married to a Panamanian to get legal residency?
Can I get a cedula and passport too?
Know of any good lawyers in PC that specializes in immigration?

Cheers,
Wolf

Florence,

Thank you for the suggestion of BOOM Panama; I am now part of the group and have already found some helpful and interesting posts. Divorce is never good even when the couple remains friends afterwards. It is just never easy. With that stated, I do not know what you mean by tread lightly? Do not mention that I am marring a Panamanian or ask about his personal life?  By nature, I am not one to ask questions about a person’s personal life unless the dangle a little something out there for me to ask on, for example “my editor,” that will cause me to ask a question. Is there something I need to know?

“It is however in the daily living that there are issues that people need to deal with and questions that should be asked.”
This is what I know: the infrastructure is a guessing game of when it will be turned off and in some areas it is more frequent than others. Roads can be very rough and not very well maintained. Protest road blocks can occur out of nowhere that can last for days. Driving is not for the faint of heart. Dog sleeping in the road, people sleeping on the road, and in other words be very careful when you drive because anything at any time can happen. The crime of opportunity is high, so watch yourself and your surroundings. There is also people both expats and locals looking for ways to take advantage in other ways as well.

I really do not know what questions to ask until I see something that makes me scratch my head. It was not until about thirty months ago I started looking at the expat life. I have been exploring around the world where I would like to set roots and travel from. For too many reasons to list here I did pick Panama from my research and for the past two years I have devoted a LOT of research and doing what I can to make sure the water is safe to swim in for me before I take the big plunge. What questions do you think most people miss or should know about Panama?

We went to Isla Colon for a day and our next trip we will be there for a little longer than 3 weeks. Anything that you can suggest to see I would be more than happy to know. The more the better.  I am hoping to get over to Boquete on Tuesday morning for their expat morning talk. Could you tell me where I should go to find when and where we need to be? We are also going to head over to David as well. So, anything you can share on these two places would be great as well. We are devoting two weeks just for use to explore and play and one week for our guests to celebrate.

I would have to agree that being an expat is not the tie that binds. I am really not looking for any binds but I think she wants to meet some people with some similarities to talk to from time to time more than anything else. However, that is not a deal breaker for her. What is important is finding a place that we are both comfortable in. We both liked Isla Colon BUT we were only there for a day. I am sure we will know more when we are this summer.

Due to the weight limit of Panama Air and the increase in cost we elected to take a taxi from PC to Bocas this summer. Her family recommended a friend of theirs that would do it a one way trip for three for $250. I am not sure if that is a fair price or if we are being taken advantage of. Also we are planning on renting a car from Avis in Changuinola to travel over to Boquete and David. Would there be better car rental options other than Avis? Since you are familiar with Bouquete and David where would you recommend to do and see and what should we avoid?

Living in Mexico, how exciting. Some of my friends have moved to Guadalajara and have wanted us to come and visit them soon. From what they have told me I know you and your husband is just going to have a wonderful time there. So much to see and do in Mexico with so many opportunities as well. Scotland that will be fun but I think you can say good bye to bronze skin and eternal spring clothing. At least you do not have to worry about translating too many words over to American meaning. Sounds as well that you and your husband is living the life that you and not too many people are willing to live their life the way they want to live it.

I will be seeing you on BOOM Panama as well

Cheers to living the life,
Wolf

Hola Wolf,

Sorry for the delay here but I've been working on other things lately (launching The 6 Monthers).  And I've seen your new account on LinkedIn (nice photo by the way).  Welcome to Boom Panama.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound so cryptic about chatting with Dennis. What I meant was that not too many people know about his divorce. He is willing to share lots of information on living in Panama since he's been there over 34 years.  He's guite a riot.  You wil enjoy him.

You have a very good grasp of the situation of living in Panama from what you posted here.  I'm happy to see that.  You will do well there because you will be cautious.

Questiions to ask any rental company; 

How often do they spray for bugs (most homes in Panama are sprayed every 3 months).

How often does the water go out or are they on a well?  Turn on every faucet in the house you want to rent and see if there is any water running at all or even how much. 

Ask how often the power goes out and for how long.

See if the house has a washer and a dryer (95% of the homes in Panama do not have a dryer, they hang clothes from the rafters outside).

Is there any hot water in the house and where is it (we had hot water only in the shower with what is called a suicide shower).  It is very wearing on a woman not to have hot water to wash dish's or even clothes in after a while.  Just something to ask.

Does the place have high speed internet?  We had excellent wireless internet connection in Panama and we were both on 12 hours a day.  Get a skype for business phone number.  We call the US and Canada with unlimited minutes for $2.99 a month.  We also have regular skype so that we can see family and friends but we use the phone calling feature just as much to call vendors and credit card companies, etc from what ever country we are in.

You have a shuttle driver who will drive you from Panama City to Bocas del Toro (which is a 10 hour drive) for $250?  That's an incredibly good price.  Air Panama will cost you over $110 a person so that is a really good price, especially that on Air Panama they charge you .80 cents a pound over the weight limit for luggage for every pound over.  Now locals use a company called Fletes Chavales to ship things.  They don't use Air Panama.  So if you do decide on living in Panama and you go to ship things to your new home, land in PTY and head to Fletes Chavales and then ship your luggage.  We shipped 4 luggages, each which weighed 50 pounds and the cost was $17, total.  On Air Panama that would have cost us an additional $48 but we only spent $17 shipping them via Fletes and the bags were waiting for us in PC.  The other alternative is going by bus which takes longer but you can bring things with you that won't cost you anything to ship since the luggage just gets tossed under the bus, so to speak.

Don't even know if they have a car rental in Changunola.  They do in Boquete.  Contact bill@valuemotorsboquete - he is an expat and he has the best price in the area - even better than the airport in David.  He's half the price and no games.  The owner of the company, also an expat has two other car rental companies he's opening; one in PC and the other in Santiago.  Tell Bill I sent you. 

I wouldn't avoid anything in David or Boquete.  See as much as you can possibly see.  Not sure how many days you have so that might determine how much you get to see.  If you decide on living in Panama then you can do the rest on weekends away or something.  Like I would suggest seeing the Azuero Peninsula. I really liked Las Tablas for example but you can make a weekend out of the Azuero.

So tell me how many days you will be in David / Boquete and then I can tell you the must stops for this round of adventure.

We are enjoying Cuernavaca to be sure.  It is a lovely area of Mexico and one of the safest.  We are trying to connect with the locals to learn more about the Maya Nut cultivation since its been a staple of the Mexican diet since the time of Christ.  Lots of great history in the world and we hope to get to see as much of it as possible.

See you Wolf!

Best,

Florence

Crynwolf wrote:

Florence,

Thank you for the suggestion of BOOM Panama; I am now part of the group and have already found some helpful and interesting posts. Divorce is never good even when the couple remains friends afterwards. It is just never easy. With that stated, I do not know what you mean by tread lightly? Do not mention that I am marring a Panamanian or ask about his personal life?  By nature, I am not one to ask questions about a person’s personal life unless the dangle a little something out there for me to ask on, for example “my editor,” that will cause me to ask a question. Is there something I need to know?

“It is however in the daily living that there are issues that people need to deal with and questions that should be asked.”
This is what I know: the infrastructure is a guessing game of when it will be turned off and in some areas it is more frequent than others. Roads can be very rough and not very well maintained. Protest road blocks can occur out of nowhere that can last for days. Driving is not for the faint of heart. Dog sleeping in the road, people sleeping on the road, and in other words be very careful when you drive because anything at any time can happen. The crime of opportunity is high, so watch yourself and your surroundings. There is also people both expats and locals looking for ways to take advantage in other ways as well.

I really do not know what questions to ask until I see something that makes me scratch my head. It was not until about thirty months ago I started looking at the expat life. I have been exploring around the world where I would like to set roots and travel from. For too many reasons to list here I did pick Panama from my research and for the past two years I have devoted a LOT of research and doing what I can to make sure the water is safe to swim in for me before I take the big plunge. What questions do you think most people miss or should know about Panama?

We went to Isla Colon for a day and our next trip we will be there for a little longer than 3 weeks. Anything that you can suggest to see I would be more than happy to know. The more the better.  I am hoping to get over to Boquete on Tuesday morning for their expat morning talk. Could you tell me where I should go to find when and where we need to be? We are also going to head over to David as well. So, anything you can share on these two places would be great as well. We are devoting two weeks just for use to explore and play and one week for our guests to celebrate.

I would have to agree that being an expat is not the tie that binds. I am really not looking for any binds but I think she wants to meet some people with some similarities to talk to from time to time more than anything else. However, that is not a deal breaker for her. What is important is finding a place that we are both comfortable in. We both liked Isla Colon BUT we were only there for a day. I am sure we will know more when we are this summer.

Due to the weight limit of Panama Air and the increase in cost we elected to take a taxi from PC to Bocas this summer. Her family recommended a friend of theirs that would do it a one way trip for three for $250. I am not sure if that is a fair price or if we are being taken advantage of. Also we are planning on renting a car from Avis in Changuinola to travel over to Boquete and David. Would there be better car rental options other than Avis? Since you are familiar with Bouquete and David where would you recommend to do and see and what should we avoid?

Living in Mexico, how exciting. Some of my friends have moved to Guadalajara and have wanted us to come and visit them soon. From what they have told me I know you and your husband is just going to have a wonderful time there. So much to see and do in Mexico with so many opportunities as well. Scotland that will be fun but I think you can say good bye to bronze skin and eternal spring clothing. At least you do not have to worry about translating too many words over to American meaning. Sounds as well that you and your husband is living the life that you and not too many people are willing to live their life the way they want to live it.

I will be seeing you on BOOM Panama as well

Cheers to living the life,
Wolf

Hola Florence,

No worries about any delay, I am very laid back and very understanding. Thank you for your suggestions on what to ask for a rental home. Each country has their uniqueness that I would never think of. I remember being a young property owner renting to some European expats and I thought their questions were very strange. They could not believe that the washer and dryer had their own room and was not part of the kitchen cabinets and there was such a large Frigidaire. Not a great home but to them it was the best.  I would have never thought about hot water or spray for bugs. I would have taken on the bug myself.

I love Skype! That is what we use now to call Panama since it is cheaper than calling cards and traditional methods. My family loves that I have a Colorado number so when I travel they can call me anytime and leave a message knowing that when I have internet I will call them. I used Skype while I was in Qatar and I swear that whole country is on wifi because wherever I went I was receiving Skype phone and video calls. You would have thought I was back home.

My “plan” is to come into Boquete  in the afternoon on a Monday and stay overnight. I would like to stay for the expat gathering on Tuesdays. Would you recommend this or not to meet people?  I am thinking either leave Tuesday night or Wednesday morning to head over to David for the day.  Then leave Thursday morning to enjoy Isla Colon, but who knows for certain. On our third week(our honeymoon week)  I am not sure what we are doing. I know we have to go to Limon, Costa Rica, but besides that we will go where the mood strikes us. 

I did find Avis at the Changunola airport on the Avis website. Originally I was thinking of doing a one way rental with Avis but when I saw the price I remembered that my future in-laws mentioned a driver for us for our last visit so I inquired about the cost to drive us. He is a family friend so I wanted to give him first bid. When he quoted $250 for one way I jumped on it. My fiancée thought this was too high and thought it was strange that the great negotiator did not haggle on price; hence why I am checking in with you.  Thanks for Fletes Chavales suggestion too, I am going to hold on that nugget as well.

I understand gringo pricing, and it really does not bother me unless it is huge price gouging. We practice the same thing here in the states in many towns with local price and sticker price. I even experienced gringo price here in Colorado in a local owned Mexican restaurant. Prices dropped when the owner saw my ex-wife and her mother were of Latin origins. Pulled that high priced menu right out of my hand and gave us better service with a smile.
 
So happy that your move is working out for you. Mexico is one of our destinations as well. Since my fiancée has so many Mexican contacts from her line of work, many families have told us to call them when we are headed to their country. Very exciting to have locals as your guide and host. You will have a lot to learn I hope you can do it in 6 months. I have no doubt you will achieve your life goal.

Cheers to you Florence and thank you for everything you have given.

Best regards,
Wolf

Wolf,

Definately head to the expats meeting on Tuesday.  The best times to go (if you want to buy something) is by 8:30 when they open since they tend to sell out sometimes of produce or other baked goods.  The meeting will commence around 11:00 (depending on the speaker) and the whole thing is over by 1:00 or so.  And they are always looking for volunteers to bring mail back to the US so if you are so inclinded I'm sure they would be appreciative.

There are reportedly 10,000 expats in the Boquete area and you won't meet them all at the expat meeting.  There are many, many who stay in the shadows who have lived in Panama a long time.  Those are the folks you should try to connect with before you arrive in Panama and then perhaps set up a time for everyone to get together after the Tuesday market to meet and chat. 

There is a group in David as well but not sure how good they are about meeting all the time.  I know the group in Volcan is growing and they have had some really good speakers at their meetings the last few months.

We have good friends currently in Boquete who have been trying to get their pensionado visa since last March so if they are still in Panama when you go I'll give you their contact information so that you can connect.  They are meeting with an attorney this week to find out why their application was rejected so they might not be staying in Panama after all. 

Best,

Florence

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Crynwolf wrote:

Hola Florence,

No worries about any delay, I am very laid back and very understanding. Thank you for your suggestions on what to ask for a rental home. Each country has their uniqueness that I would never think of. I remember being a young property owner renting to some European expats and I thought their questions were very strange. They could not believe that the washer and dryer had their own room and was not part of the kitchen cabinets and there was such a large Frigidaire. Not a great home but to them it was the best.  I would have never thought about hot water or spray for bugs. I would have taken on the bug myself.

I love Skype! That is what we use now to call Panama since it is cheaper than calling cards and traditional methods. My family loves that I have a Colorado number so when I travel they can call me anytime and leave a message knowing that when I have internet I will call them. I used Skype while I was in Qatar and I swear that whole country is on wifi because wherever I went I was receiving Skype phone and video calls. You would have thought I was back home.

My “plan” is to come into Boquete  in the afternoon on a Monday and stay overnight. I would like to stay for the expat gathering on Tuesdays. Would you recommend this or not to meet people?  I am thinking either leave Tuesday night or Wednesday morning to head over to David for the day.  Then leave Thursday morning to enjoy Isla Colon, but who knows for certain. On our third week(our honeymoon week)  I am not sure what we are doing. I know we have to go to Limon, Costa Rica, but besides that we will go where the mood strikes us. 

I did find Avis at the Changunola airport on the Avis website. Originally I was thinking of doing a one way rental with Avis but when I saw the price I remembered that my future in-laws mentioned a driver for us for our last visit so I inquired about the cost to drive us. He is a family friend so I wanted to give him first bid. When he quoted $250 for one way I jumped on it. My fiancée thought this was too high and thought it was strange that the great negotiator did not haggle on price; hence why I am checking in with you.  Thanks for Fletes Chavales suggestion too, I am going to hold on that nugget as well.

I understand gringo pricing, and it really does not bother me unless it is huge price gouging. We practice the same thing here in the states in many towns with local price and sticker price. I even experienced gringo price here in Colorado in a local owned Mexican restaurant. Prices dropped when the owner saw my ex-wife and her mother were of Latin origins. Pulled that high priced menu right out of my hand and gave us better service with a smile.
 
So happy that your move is working out for you. Mexico is one of our destinations as well. Since my fiancée has so many Mexican contacts from her line of work, many families have told us to call them when we are headed to their country. Very exciting to have locals as your guide and host. You will have a lot to learn I hope you can do it in 6 months. I have no doubt you will achieve your life goal.

Cheers to you Florence and thank you for everything you have given.

Best regards,
Wolf

Good morning,
Just read your post and I wish to pass on our website for you to check out. We have designed and built (and continue to build) our development to meet the demands of this changing world. Check out www.easyretirementliving.com
Cheers,
Jack

Many of the professions requiring a license are closed to foreigners but spouses of Panamanians are usually exempt. This is a big advantage if you are a doctor, dentist, teacher, accountant even a cometologist,hair stylist etc. Definitely get a lawyer soon since laws change frequently here. Your situation is very favorable and I believe you will qualify for a different type of visa. Most of us here are on the Pensionado Visa.

Jack ~ Thank you for the recommendation of the condos

Cheers,
Wolf

Nfoote,

That was my understanding that most of the people from USA and CA are in Panama on the retirement visa. I have began communications with a lawyer that came forward to a group on linked in. Hopefully, things will progress favorably.

If you do not mind me asking, how long did it take for you get obtain a  Pensionado Visa? Did you have any hiccups? If so, what were they?

Cheers,
Wolf

It took 8-10 months from start to receipt of permanent card. On first visit to Migracion they stamp your passport indicating that the process has started. About 2 months later I got the temporary card followed by the permanent card a couple months later. Once you get your documents authenticated/Apostilled, the lawyer will get them translated in Panama and take care of the bureaucracy. Google Apostille if you are not familiar with the word. My lawyer is Nitzia de Villareal - nitzia14@hotmail.com  She speaks English so you can e-mail her and ask questions. I suspect your pathway is different from mine since you are married to a Panamanian.

Nofoote ~ That number months that it took you is about the same amount of time I was told too to get a Pensionado Visa. I started communication with a lawyer in PC that put herself out to be seen on LinkedIn. Her willingness to do such a thing was impressive to me knowing that if a client is not happy with her or her firms service it will go out on LinkedIn.

This lawyer did mention a new Visa for people from "friendly countries" so I felt I had three choices of Visas to choose from until she told me it would take 2 years to get a Visa married to a resident. So that was taken off the list. For me to work in Panama would take too much effort (too many to list here) so I am going apply for the Pensionado Visa. This one makes the most sense for us. I do not have to claim my wife or her child since they are Panamanian and we still get the benefits and I only need to make enough for just me.

We are going to start this process either the last quarter of this year or the begging of the next. This is really determined how many of my global friends are also getting married this year.

Do you think once I start file my application that it is best to stay in Panama for the duration or do you think it would be fine to travel back and forth from the state to Panama? I am weighing my options right now. If I have to sit in the PC area I have to problem with that.

Cheers,
Wolf

I traveled back and forth, each time I was needed in Panama. No problem.

Florence ~ For sure we will be in Boquete on June 4th at 0830. We are looking forward to meeting people and local shopping. I hate making to many plans for a day. If mail is needed to be brought back we do not mind helping out. If you know anyone that we should contact let me know and I will be more than happy to give them a call.

Our plans for David are much more simple, shop and drive around. I know David is too big and too busy for me. At the most I could live just outside of David and come into town when I need to.

Feel free to contact me through LinkedIn as well. I am a little more open on sharing contact info there.

I want to thank you Florence, you have been a great resource of information that you have been willing to share without an angle. I really appreciate it. I am a person that believes in paying it forward and you are one of those that really have been. Thank you.

Cheers,
Wolf

Thanks Wolf.  Appreciate the cudos.

At the Tuesday Market the woman who manages the used book tables with books for sale is also the post-mistress.  She's the one who gathers US mail that needs to get back to the US so just see her when you arrive.  If she doesn't have anything that needs to go to the US at least you asked.

I'll see you on LinkedIn.

Best,

Florence

Crynwolf wrote:

Florence ~ For sure we will be in Boquete on June 4th at 0830. We are looking forward to meeting people and local shopping. I hate making to many plans for a day. If mail is needed to be brought back we do not mind helping out. If you know anyone that we should contact let me know and I will be more than happy to give them a call.

Our plans for David are much more simple, shop and drive around. I know David is too big and too busy for me. At the most I could live just outside of David and come into town when I need to.

Feel free to contact me through LinkedIn as well. I am a little more open on sharing contact info there.

I want to thank you Florence, you have been a great resource of information that you have been willing to share without an angle. I really appreciate it. I am a person that believes in paying it forward and you are one of those that really have been. Thank you.

Cheers,
Wolf

Hey grooverz, this is a great information forum you got going here. Well done. I quite like wolfs idea's, fishing, relaxing and just taking it easy.
And of course, Auntie Flo, who, with her idea about the 6 months and move on.. simply brilliant. I have Thailand as a base, and over the years of my comings and goings, exploring, I return to see the expats doing more renovations, putting up another wall on their self imposed prison, and then telling every one how the world turns. They hardly leave their door, so im rather at odds as to where they get their info from. My father reads Rupert Murdoch publications daily , so I know where he get his worldly ideas from.
Its rather cute and requires a cute smile, a cup of tea and a quick departure.
Basically, Im coming for a look, fishing, relaxing, meet the locals type of story, same as ive done for the last 40 years on the road. I dont require much info to get around, wouldnt mind a cheap motor bike though, put the fishing gear onto. That would be terrific.

So, to you all, thanx for your loverly in sights. Keep on rockin"
Ooddeee

Hi Crynwolf, I would like to know if there is difficulty in getting a narcotic that I take for chronic migraines.  I certainly want to move to Panama.  Will it be difficult to find a job.  My background is Customer Service, Blogger, Sales, Barista, and Finance. Do you think it is possible to live in the city for $800 a month?  I've heard several times now that it is very difficult to get a Visa for permanent residence?  You mention "professional services" loophole... what did you mean?

Thank you.

Char

charlenecharles21@gmail.com

Narcotics and antibiotics require a prescription, so find a local general physician. Cost $25 per visit. Most drugs are available here, even though the name may be different from that which you are accustomed to.

Wages are low in P but you may be able to find work. You would be working illegally but they have frequent 'Immigration Fairs' where the Colombians, Nicaraguans etc. are allowed to legalize their stay for a few years. They do a lot of the hard work (construction etc) here.

Start learning Spanish and you will have a better appreciation of the general routine here.

Average wage for Panamanian office-type jobs is about $800. Registered Nurse - $800 per month. Clinic dentist - $1200 per month. Chauffer - $400. Maid $300 per month.

You can live on $800 but you would have to live like a Panamanian of modest means. You have lots of choices here - from renting a room for $300 per month to a 3 bedroom furnished apartment for $1600, in a good neighborhood. If you like rice, beans, bananas, plantains, yams, milk, potatoes, chicken, fresh fish, local beef etc. your food bill will be low. If you have to have US brands you will pay a premium.

This should give you a little insight.

nfoote, thank you for your reply and information. About the $800 income I currently have... you say I would have to live like the Panamanian's.  Is this in the City?  I guess I have seen other threads where this was possible and not live like a local, but decent.  Please understand I know this is not a large sum of funds, but I guess I just have been reading or maybe I was wishing that this was possible?

It is good to know that I probably can get my medicine.  Yes I will learn Spanish.  A room for $300 is an option but not one I hope and pray I have to do.

Thank you.

Charlene

My numbers are for Panama City where I live. Rent is a lot cheaper in the interior of the country (Pedasi,Las Tablas etc). In some parts you could rent a house for $500 or less. These are small communities and away from beaches, of course. Culturally, you would be deprived since there would be no cinemas etc. Hospitals might also be far away or basic. There are lots of choices here and you just have to find your own level of affordability and tolerability.

Panamanians of modest means do dress very well (fashionably actually) and are well nourished. The point is really that you would have to change your NY lifestyle a bit to live on $800 per month.

One thing to know is that public transportation is cheap and very good.  25 cents on the MetroBus which is air-conditioned and new. Taxis $2-5 dollars. Next year the subway will be ready. Long distance buses to the interior are nice and cost only a few bucks.

Thank you Norman.  It was a pleasure speaking to you yesterday.  Will speak with you soon.

Charlene

We live in David, the second largest city. http://thepanamaadventure.com/information.html#journey  If you go there you will find links to two cost of living reports. Our house ($385/mo) is considered quite expensive by many locals.
http://onemoregoodadventure.com/  This guy lives in a more rural area not far from us and lives happily on a budget similar to your income. There is nothing wrong with living like a Panamanian! You can live in a simple but comfortable house, eat locally grown healthy food, and have a very good life here. Remember that gallup poll awhile back? Panamanians are the happiest people in the world! http://www.gallup.com/poll/159254/latin … world.aspx

You must learn Spanish. This is very important so I'm glad to hear you are working on it. Your life here will be so much easier and so much happier if you can communicate. They don't care if your Spanish is bad and your grammar is all messed up and everything is in the present tense, but if you can speak and understand enough to communicate it makes a huge difference.

Kris

thematrixx wrote:

nfoote, thank you for your reply and information. About the $800 income I currently have... you say I would have to live like the Panamanian's.  Is this in the City?  I guess I have seen other threads where this was possible and not live like a local, but decent.  Please understand I know this is not a large sum of funds, but I guess I just have been reading or maybe I was wishing that this was possible?

It is good to know that I probably can get my medicine.  Yes I will learn Spanish.  A room for $300 is an option but not one I hope and pray I have to do.

Thank you.

Charlene

Hi --you mentioned a room at $300-----we have one of our 1 bedroom "casitas" that goes for $250 per month plus utilities. There are deals to be had but you MUST be careful of the area. We are in a rural location--very safe, quiet and affordable. visit--(moderated: no ads please)
Panama is the closest you will come to a "perfect spot" to live or retire to.

Hi, there. I'm also considering moving to Panama. I've recently got out of the army. Spent to much time in three branches. I have a fiancee who is from Europe. I am planning to move to Panama with her. Reason being. In order to bring her to the states. I have to fill out a form I 864. Which means I have to support her in the states no matter if we separate or divorce. Not that she doesn't love me. But it sure puts the Americano on the, "hook". If things go wrong. I have a friend who I met while in the military. He is from panama and now is back in panama city, panama. We talk at least once a week. He asks I go visit him and his family. I'm making plans to do so. I, to. Am hoping to find place I can afford there. I'm basically riding on my small va pension. 90% to be exact. I hope you could find the time to email me what you encountered there and make my trip woth its time. Sincerely, William

Hi check out Villa Davina, Gariche Panama or email me.
Jack

I sure will thank you! I can make calls to Panama for free, if they are on a lan line. If you have one email me at: militaryguy2013@gmail.com. thanks, William

Wolf,

I am wondering how your search for visa information is going?  I have been married to my beautiful Panamanian wife for 22 years now and we are ready to make that move back to Panama.  Although we do not have much money and will have to find some kind of work or start a business. Anyone know of job openings for a gringo with computer/networking knowledge/skills?

Have you found any good information on visa's or a good lawyer who has answered your questions that you might recomend?  I am going to try and join BOOM as well. Thanks for any insights you may be able to provide.

David

David,

Right now I am working with a lawyer that I found in LinkedIn in BOOM. When you join you will find the lawyer I am speaking of. There is a new Visa that is offered to people from friendly countries, like the USA that allows us to get a work permit. However, the best Visa for me is the retirement visa.

Right now the lawyer and I are in the gathering information stage. If there is anything funky on your FBI report make sure you get the reports directly from the source as well to support any questions that might come up with immigration office. For example, I was arrested one time but the charges were dropped and I was never convicted of a crime. I had to go back to the county that arrested me and have them pull the records to prove the charges were dropped.

I hope this information helps you. Feel free to ask more if you have more questions.

Cheers,
Wolf

Wolf,  You haven't updated your progress for awhile and since I'm living in Panama vicariously through the stories and various blogs. I too would like to make an extended visit to see if Panama is the place for me. The wife (love her to death but she) is just not as adventurous as me and her ties to the USA (grandkids) seem stronger than mine. I like visits, grand kids, kids also but feel that some time should be just for us. Life is fleeting and experience it while you can. .