How is a good girl?

Speed dating is where you have a group of single men and women get together (can be at a cafe or anywhere you can sit and talk) and they take turns sitting and chatting with each other. Depending on the size of the event this can be 5 to 10 minutes each. so if there are 10 men and 10 women each man and women has a chance to talk with each other. So each person has 10 "speed" dates to learn somethings about the others

I don't like to label people as good or bad. I have found that Vietnamese women can be some of the most family oriented and self sacrificing women in the world. A good girl in Vietnam will do things to protect or provide for her family that on the face look like bad things.

VungTauDon wrote:

I don't like to label people as good or bad. I have found that Vietnamese women can be some of the most family oriented and self sacrificing women in the world. A good girl in Vietnam will do things to protect or provide for her family that on the face look like bad things.

Well said sir Donald!

i think because the culture,most of vietnamese people live with their families even with relatives together. Maybe they think family is the most reliable thing

I think a lot of this is due to cultural differences. I met my wife (nguoi viet) in the US and noticed some differences about how dating is approached. Before we were married, someone asked us how long we had been dating, and we gave answers that were off by about 6 months. Apparently I had been dating her long before she was dating me! The term "dating" is used much more loosely in the US than it is in VN. The first time I took my wife out on a "date" (she wasn't my wife at the time obviously), I asked her if she would like to go eat with me, picked her up, brought her flowers, and paid for the meal. I considered that a date because we had romantic interest (or at least I did) and it was a one-on-one date-type situation. My wife did not consider that a date because we were not committed to each other and she just considered it hanging out with a friend.

I think that some times Western men may give the impression that they want the relationship to move forward more quickly than they do because of the differences in the way the two cultures view the dating concept. In the west, we will use terms such as "just dating" because dating does not imply a very serious relationship in our culture. In VN, it implies a much more serious relationship than in the west. When a western guy wants to date a girl, he just wants to get to know her better to see if a long-term relationship would be a good idea or not. As far as I can tell, VN does not categorize this as serious enough to be called dating. In my opinion, this adds to the confusion between Western/Eastern couples. Just my 1,000 VND.

jakejas wrote:

I think a lot of this is due to cultural differences. I met my wife (nguoi viet) in the US and noticed some differences about how dating is approached. Before we were married, someone asked us how long we had been dating, and we gave answers that were off by about 6 months. Apparently I had been dating her long before she was dating me! The term "dating" is used much more loosely in the US than it is in VN. The first time I took my wife out on a "date" (she wasn't my wife at the time obviously), I asked her if she would like to go eat with me, picked her up, brought her flowers, and paid for the meal. I considered that a date because we had romantic interest (or at least I did) and it was a one-on-one date-type situation. My wife did not consider that a date because we were not committed to each other and she just considered it hanging out with a friend.

I think that some times Western men may give the impression that they want the relationship to move forward more quickly than they do because of the differences in the way the two cultures view the dating concept. In the west, we will use terms such as "just dating" because dating does not imply a very serious relationship in our culture. In VN, it implies a much more serious relationship than in the west. When a western guy wants to date a girl, he just wants to get to know her better to see if a long-term relationship would be a good idea or not. As far as I can tell, VN does not categorize this as serious enough to be called dating. In my opinion, this adds to the confusion between Western/Eastern couples. Just my 1,000 VND.

Yes.
I think your dating process is quite common in Vietnam. We want to develope the relationship from lower to higher. Almost of all Vietnamese girls want the man take time and impress to their relationship. Its difficult to us to love more quickly. Because of the that, we often find the stability and sustainablity realtions.

I think the posts above referring to dating are somewhat off-topic and should be over on the thread "Dating In HCMC".

Regarding the OP's question, How (what) is a good girl?, I've posted both positive and negative comments about girls here on other threads - particularly about bar girls.

My definition of good is anyone who is honest, virtuous, and places her family above all else. That does not mean, to me, that the girl is self-sufficient and doesn't need money. Most do need money because VN is a generally poor country, and right now, matters are worse due to the state of the economy here. Bad girls usually need money also, but are not honest, and are usually the ones referred on this forum as seeing Western men as ATM machines.

In my experience here, both good girls and bad girls can be found anywhere - even in the places I call "monkey bars". That's right - I said it - there are a few "good" girls working in the monkey bars. Most western men do NOT agree with me on this. It's the general consensus that any girl who works in those places is bad, and is a whore. I've even said they're whores. But that alone does not make them "bad" girls, because I believe that most of the girls working in those places do so because of their family situations, and not by choice. They are in desperate straits, and think there's nothing else they can do to make any kind of decent money to support their family. I feel very sorry for them. What's worse is they are likely in a perpetual cycle of gloom because of a complicated life, and no man wants to get involved with that. Therefore, very few of those girls will ever find a good man who will love and take care of them. Not to mention the stigma most men would feel by "society" for having a girlfriend/wife who was a former prostitute. Where I come from, ALL prostitutes are bad, and everyone I know agrees with that. I don't believe that to be the case here.

I don't know if VungTauDon agrees with me on this, but I agree with him that people should not be labeled as good or bad, particularly based on where they choose to try and make a living. As he said, "A good girl in Vietnam will do things to protect or provide for her family that on the face look like bad things." I totally agree...

I think they are all good, just different goals in dating.  My luck has just been bad.  Since my divorce in the USA, I have only dated 2 Vietnamese and they were both looking for a visa to america.  Wow, just realized I have only dated 5 women since my divorce.  1 Thai in Chiang Mai, one Canadian teacher in Hanoi, one German tourist in Saigon and the 2 vietnamese.  That is in 3 years since my separation and divorce.  Sorry did not mean to get into my life, the point I want to make is there are many reasons why a person may date, and for happiness you need to have the same or similar goals in a relationship.

The difference between bar girls in Vietnam and the girls who work the equivalent in the US is that the US girl will say "I'm working to pay my way through school" and the Vietnamese girl will say "I'm working to pay for my sister's school or house bill for parents"

I used to have a friend who worked as a waitress in a restaurant attached to a girly bar and she told me she hated the bad girls who worked there at night. So I thought i was agreeing with her and said it was not a good job for them. She said she wasn't talking about those girls, she was talking about the girls that gossip all the time. She said the bar girls were just doing what they had to do and were not bad girls

VungTauDon wrote:

The difference between bar girls in Vietnam and the girls who work the equivalent in the US is that the US girl will say "I'm working to pay my way through school" and the Vietnamese girl will say "I'm working to pay for my sister's school or house bill for parents"

I used to have a friend who worked as a waitress in a restaurant attached to a girly bar and she told me she hated the bad girls who worked there at night. So I thought i was agreeing with her and said it was not a good job for them. She said she wasn't talking about those girls, she was talking about the girls that gossip all the time. She said the bar girls were just doing what they had to do and were not bad girls

Exactly! This is the main difference between west and this causes so many problems with mixed relationship because we see things differently.
In Vietnam (Thailand etc) taking care for your parents or close family and proving a financials is the most important thing. Therefore a girl doing bad thing is not seen as bad girl as long as her family has benefits from  what she does. I have seen many examples of girls going out or traveling with (older) foreign men and it was plain and simple prostitution (GFE) but no one was saying they are bad girls, including parents (of course most of Vietnamese parents pretend that nothing is going on but they all know how the system works here). A girl running away with a guy she loves against her parents wishes is seen as much more bad girl than a girl marrying or prostituting (GFE) herself so she can bring money to her family.

A good girl in my eyes is a girl that respects parents but she decided her own fate and does against parents/husbands wishes if they force her to do things she doesn't want (prostitution, marrying some old Korean or western guys etc).

I actually have to say that I thing a prostitutes in street bars are less bad girl than a girl that does prostitution voluntary. I have much more respect for a poor prostitute that if forced to prostitute herself due to greedy parents than I have for a young Vietnamese girl who dates richer men because she likes money.

I think your dating process is quite common in Vietnam. We want to develope the relationship from lower to higher. Almost of all Vietnamese girls want the man take time and impress to their relationship. Its difficult to us to love more quickly. Because of the that, we often find the stability and sustainablity realtions.

maybe when dating a Vietnamese guy but this is completely untrue when dating a foreign guys. A expat guy can go out and find a plenty of girls who want to be his girlfriend without even knowing them. In fact Vietnamese girls say "I love you" way too easy and quick to foreign men. In a way for me this is indicator of a one kind of a bad girl.(the other are GFE prostitutes you see everywhere,especially on travels).

A bad girl is a girl who does sexual favors in any form for some financial reward in any form. If she is not forced by someone then she is even more of a bad girl.

" A bad girl is a girl who does sexual favors in any form for some financial reward in any form. If she is not forced by someone then she is even more of a bad girl."

Prostitution does not make a girl bad.  A bad person hurts others for no reason. Prostitution is either a choice, survival skill or someone forced it upon her. IMO a bad person is someone who is rude to the working girls or they treat them badly.  There is nothing wrong with paying someone for an agreed upon service.

https://www.expat.com/forum/profile.php?id=828767

Now, this IS a bad-ass girl...

ancientpathos wrote:

" A bad girl is a girl who does sexual favors in any form for some financial reward in any form. If she is not forced by someone then she is even more of a bad girl."

Prostitution does not make a girl bad.  A bad person hurts others for no reason. Prostitution is either a choice, survival skill or someone forced it upon her. IMO a bad person is someone who is rude to the working girls or they treat them badly.  There is nothing wrong with paying someone for an agreed upon service.

I did not mean bad in a way you describe (treating someone badly etc) - that is different kind of bad. Bad in a classic way of the words bad girl - good girl. Bad girl in a way for example that you would not want it to be your wife or to show it to your parents. Bad in a way that would lie you about being your gf then have other boyfriends etc. I am sure you know what I mean,you have been in Vietnam long enough.

Wild_1, she may be busier after your free ad ^___^

Wild_1 wrote:

https://www.expat.com/forum/profile.php?id=828767

Now, this IS a bad-ass girl...

From the photo I rate the ass as a 7, skin is too white for me.  I prefer clothing for my imagination.  Does being an escort make her bad?

Wild_1 wrote:

https://www.expat.com/forum/profile.php?id=828767

Now, this IS a bad-ass girl...

can't really tell... if this IS a girl!

VungTauDon wrote:

I don't like to label people as good or bad. I have found that Vietnamese women can be some of the most family oriented and self sacrificing women in the world. A good girl in Vietnam will do things to protect or provide for her family that on the face look like bad things.

like your comment

What I find quite disgusting is the treatment by the parents between a male and a female. If the family situation warrants it, why is it that the female must be the family oriented and self sacrificing one instead of the Good for nothing males? Is it because the 'oldest profession' is the easiest to make ends meet so that the males  do not need to work hard and spend money drinking beers and gallivanting? I hear it is about 'who holds the joss-sticks'? if you are the eldest and only son, you get all the property and nothing is left for the females even they are also your own flesh and blood? There is also a very thin line between greed and integrity and owing to poor wages, money making 'by all means ' permeates most minds. And since its cultural, we cannot say whether it is 'good' or 'bad'..

I always learned it was good to be a bad girl and bad to be a good girl.