Temporary Residence Cards without WP

Yes I know what he is saying, but the fact is that most illegal workers are Chinese.So as usual everyone gets lumped in the same boat.

Are you one of my staff, no, not with a head like that.

saigonmonkey wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Who are you talking to.

I think l3ully is talking to anyone here who needs to listen, and I agree with him. Either live and work here following their rules, or leave. All the abuse just makes it harder for those trying to play by the rules.

I agree, playing by the rules are the most important aspect of being a responsible expat.  I have had lots of oportunities to break the rules by Vietnamese looking to make money.  I like it here and do not want to screw up a good thing.

Agree, do the correct paperwork and have all documents in order, I have done everything by VN law. What really shits me is the corruption in the government agenicies that are processing the paperwork. Once that can be managed then things may improve, but cant see that happening in the short term.

Don't expect anything miraculous in the near future as majority young blood sleeping under blanket

Guys I totally agree with all of you. Being legal is the only way to go. I've got a 5 year VEC, matter of fact I just renewed it for another 5 years so I'm ok in that regards. Retired and not looking to work or take any jobs away from people. I should have clarified my reasons when I bumped this back up. I found a translated copy of the law and it indicated in item c. at the bottom of the translation that referred to "other" as in who was eligible to receive a TRC. Was just hoping that somebody else had seen it and understood. I searched all over and can't find an explanation to what "other" could be. I was just looking for a legal way besides my VEC for long term staying without the every 3 month trip to immigration.

Other:
war invalids, former diplomatic personnel, spouses and partners of those on a a residence, charitative figures ..... .
That is a quite long list without definitions, so it's possible more often done on discretion than by rule.

l3ully wrote:

If I would be staying illegal in you country and break all rules, how easy you country would make it for me?

I consider myself here as a guest and for that reason, I make my papers in order, according to the rules here, even if it takes some time.

The requirements are set:

- Qualification and/or work experience
- Police clearance
- ID/passport
- Medical
- investment/Employment
- 16 Passport photos


I personally consider that not really as challenge. If that can't be fulfilled, than you really have no good reason to stay/reside in Vietnam.

Much appreciated for what you are saying. People keep saying "when you are in Rome, do as the Romans do", and the very sad thing in Vietnamese society now is people use money to make up everything, to buy anything even a position in state agency, bribe, corruption... Everyone knows, everyone does just to get their things done asap. So what we expect the expats think differently when they come and work in Vietnam. As a Vietnamese, and as a minority (I trust - as I have not paid for any illigal things, I have got all things by myself - no power, no money, no relation - without payments (thanks God, I am lucky to get over those things although sometimes in work, I am under a lot of pressures because of the request to get things done for my clients!), I feel very bad that the expats come more and more Vietnamese people with the bad things, paying bribe, preferring to pay rather than following the rules (yes, I agree the laws in Vietnam sometimes just like s**t), driving motobike without helmet, going wrong in one way, etc...

I, personally, just hope that when the expats come, work and live in Vietnam, do not do the bad thing as the Vietnamese do but the RIGHT things.

Now it will be difficult to get WP and TRC in Vietnam. Because following the Decree 102/2013, which will be have valid from 1st November 2013, All of Expats, which work in Vietnam without work permit and not in the case of Vietnam work permit exemption will be force to exit Vietnam within 15 days. So I think that the best way to live here that we try to compliance Vietnam law.

That means many schools in Vietnam will be left high and dry as they dont want the expats to have WP, its all uneccessary work for them and puts them on the government radar.

colinoscapee wrote:

That means many schools in Vietnam will be left high and dry as they dont want the expats to have WP, its all uneccessary work for them and puts them on the government radar.

And what fear? Not paid taxes? Not paid salaries? Illegal employment? None-licensed content?

Enough reason to close and boycott those schools.

Why should none- school business have to comply with the law whilst schools can ignore it?

Well thats the problem here,"they are doing it so why cant I", seems to be the thinking.

aibiet150204 wrote:

l3ully wrote:

If I would be staying illegal in you country and break all rules, how easy you country would make it for me?

I consider myself here as a guest and for that reason, I make my papers in order, according to the rules here, even if it takes some time.

The requirements are set:

- Qualification and/or work experience
- Police clearance
- ID/passport
- Medical
- investment/Employment
- 16 Passport photos


I personally consider that not really as challenge. If that can't be fulfilled, than you really have no good reason to stay/reside in Vietnam.

Much appreciated for what you are saying. People keep saying "when you are in Rome, do as the Romans do", and the very sad thing in Vietnamese society now is people use money to make up everything, to buy anything even a position in state agency, bribe, corruption... Everyone knows, everyone does just to get their things done asap. So what we expect the expats think differently when they come and work in Vietnam. As a Vietnamese, and as a minority (I trust - as I have not paid for any illigal things, I have got all things by myself - no power, no money, no relation - without payments (thanks God, I am lucky to get over those things although sometimes in work, I am under a lot of pressures because of the request to get things done for my clients!), I feel very bad that the expats come more and more Vietnamese people with the bad things, paying bribe, preferring to pay rather than following the rules (yes, I agree the laws in Vietnam sometimes just like s**t), driving motobike without helmet, going wrong in one way, etc...

I, personally, just hope that when the expats come, work and live in Vietnam, do not do the bad thing as the Vietnamese do but the RIGHT things.

And if we get delayed and mess things up by doing right things, which look strange to locals, who will come to help us get out of it? Your policemen only know how to see green color bills of 100 k!!

What would happen, if I get delayed with paperwork in Singapore?
Would that grant me automatically the right to bypass any law?

The system in Singapore is much more efficient and way less laborious then Viet Nam, also you wouldnt have to pay someone in Singapore to have things done properly.Half the problem in Viet Nam is that nobody is working for the good of the country, they are working for their own personal gain.

Yes, maybe more efficient, but cost considerable more. Now, it would be to much  hassle to make the Sing $10 000.00 to open a company.
That would would grant me now the right, to do that illegal?

Consider, YOU have chosen to stay in Vietnam. If you not like the rules/culture ... there are air-plains and buses and other transports leaving daily the country.

l3ully wrote:

Yes, maybe more efficient, but cost considerable more. Now, it would be to much  hassle to make the Sing $10 000.00 to open a company.
That would would grant me now the right, to do that illegal?

Consider, YOU have chosen to stay in Vietnam. If you not like the rules/culture ... there are air-plains and buses and other transports leaving daily the country.

Wow, talk about looking at the world with rose coloured glasses. If I choose to make a point of something I will, I dont need someone like you to tell me how to live or think.Dont forget,this is an open forum for opinions, dont start with the, leave the country if you dont like the rules, that is getting so old and worn out. If you cant see how things operate here, then you need to get a reality check. Last time I looked, Singapore was about number 5 on world corruption, Viet Nam 140. So what does that tell you.If I choose to make a point of how things work, thats my right, I dont need you to come on and say leave Viet Nam, because you think you have blended into the Vietnamese way of life better then the rest of us.

colinoscapee wrote:

l3ully wrote:

Yes, maybe more efficient, but cost considerable more. Now, it would be to much  hassle to make the Sing $10 000.00 to open a company.
That would would grant me now the right, to do that illegal?

Consider, YOU have chosen to stay in Vietnam. If you not like the rules/culture ... there are air-plains and buses and other transports leaving daily the country.

Wow, talk about looking at the world with rose coloured glasses. If I choose to make a point of something I will, I dont need someone like you to tell me how to live or think.Dont forget,this is an open forum for opinions, dont start with the, leave the country if you dont like the rules, that is getting so old and worn out. If you cant see how things operate here, then you need to get a reality check. Last time I looked, Singapore was about number 5 on world corruption, Viet Nam 140. So what does that tell you.If I choose to make a point of how things work, thats my right, I dont need you to come on and say leave Viet Nam, because you think you have blended into the Vietnamese way of life better then the rest of us.

If you  like the number 5 of corruption, stay in country number 5. If you not the French, don't live in France (cause there many of them) = very easy.

Where did I say I didnt like the VN people, I was talking about the system. Anyway, thats enough from me,its nice here where I am, there are no Germans,lol.

I was merely trying to answer   aibiet150204 about how wonderful it could be, if only we really do the RIGHT things the right way and things putt along smoothly. All we expats would gladly do that. But it's awfully difficult, isn't it? What legal system? Still in shambles!!  What traffic rules? Motorcyclists facing you and driving at high speed!! What queue system you must be an idiot!! WE do not want to leave this country, we have assets and a wife here, we intend to stay as long as possible! So get off your high horse and stop telling us to catch the next plane! Who do you think you are anyway, the relative of uncle HO??

Sploke77 wrote:

I was merely trying to answer   aibiet150204 about how wonderful it could be, if only we really do the RIGHT things the right way and things putt along smoothly. All we expats would gladly do that. But it's awfully difficult, isn't it? What legal system? Still in shambles!!  What traffic rules? Motorcyclists facing you and driving at high speed!! What queue system you must be an idiot!! WE do not want to leave this country, we have assets and a wife here, we intend to stay as long as possible! So get off your high horse and stop telling us to catch the next plane! Who do you think you are anyway, the relative of uncle HO??

I not tell you anything. Possible issues with reading. There was a reminder for those, who lost the plot and not find there way home (where it is better)

"we have assets and a wife here ..." than you not need to complain

colinoscapee wrote:

Where did I say I didnt like the VN people, I was talking about the system. Anyway, thats enough from me,its nice here where I am, there are no Germans,lol.

Yep, until they cut your social

colinoscapee wrote:

...Last time I looked, Singapore was about number 5 on world corruption, Viet Nam 140. So what does that tell you.If I choose to make a point of how things work, thats my right, I dont need you to come on and say leave Viet Nam, because you think you have blended into the Vietnamese way of life better then the rest of us....

Just fact checking you (and learning something new).

Per the Corruptions Perception Index 2012 study authored by Transparency International.
http://issuu.com/transparencyinternatio … port/4?e=0

Singapore is ranked #5 with a score of 87 (you're dead on, SIX)
Việt Nam is tied #123 with a score of 31 (so it's improved a bit)

Australia is tied #7
USA ranked #19 
Germany ranked #13

Wow, China is #80

Ok, I was quoting off the top of my head from a  report I read last year.. Good to see it has improved in world rankings.

Sploke77 wrote:

aibiet150204 wrote:

l3ully wrote:

If I would be staying illegal in you country and break all rules, how easy you country would make it for me?

I consider myself here as a guest and for that reason, I make my papers in order, according to the rules here, even if it takes some time.

The requirements are set:

- Qualification and/or work experience
- Police clearance
- ID/passport
- Medical
- investment/Employment
- 16 Passport photos


I personally consider that not really as challenge. If that can't be fulfilled, than you really have no good reason to stay/reside in Vietnam.

Much appreciated for what you are saying. People keep saying "when you are in Rome, do as the Romans do", and the very sad thing in Vietnamese society now is people use money to make up everything, to buy anything even a position in state agency, bribe, corruption... Everyone knows, everyone does just to get their things done asap. So what we expect the expats think differently when they come and work in Vietnam. As a Vietnamese, and as a minority (I trust - as I have not paid for any illigal things, I have got all things by myself - no power, no money, no relation - without payments (thanks God, I am lucky to get over those things although sometimes in work, I am under a lot of pressures because of the request to get things done for my clients!), I feel very bad that the expats come more and more Vietnamese people with the bad things, paying bribe, preferring to pay rather than following the rules (yes, I agree the laws in Vietnam sometimes just like s**t), driving motobike without helmet, going wrong in one way, etc...

I, personally, just hope that when the expats come, work and live in Vietnam, do not do the bad thing as the Vietnamese do but the RIGHT things.

And if we get delayed and mess things up by doing right things, which look strange to locals, who will come to help us get out of it? Your policemen only know how to see green color bills of 100 k!!

I thought that we are here to help each other, arent we? Why do you have to care about how to get out of this country? You still have your home country to go back anytime you want. Anyway, my personal thoughts are: (i) if you do the right things, always have a right solution waiting for you, and yes, it costs your time and patience; (ii) if you say "people do so, so do I" then you are just showing I can do nothing but just follow what other are doing. And here is the thing: I'm sure you understand well that Vietnam is a poor country, our education system is still underdeveloped, if you come from "a wealthy country with developed education system", and you do just like Vietnamese people do (I mean you know it wrong and you still do that), does it mean you are reducing "your price"?!? I know a lot of issues need to be fixed here, but it does not mean that all are bad!

So I was sitting at a red light the other night and ....almost got ran over by several motorbikes whizzing by me (running said red light).  Then I said ah screw the law, I'm going to protect myself from getting rear-ended.  Was that the right thing to do?

I'm here on a 3-year temporary residency that has a year to go, based on investing in a Vietnamese company.  At the time I was told renewal would be perfunctory; since then, there has been a lot of abuse and now I'm told it could be a problem.  I have other options like sponsorship and work and I am working on both of them.

A friend of mine in TPHCM half-followed my advice to do the same; he went the same route but found his own company to do it, and the company he invested in was flipping sponsorships; taking the money and sponsoring the investor, then silently dropping them to take money from someone else.  The company got Noticed and flagged and when my friend left VN and came back he was stopped at immigration and has had a really bad time.  Now he has to do the three month shtick, which I would earnestly like to avoid.

BTW l3ully I find your snarky "follow the rules or get out" thing to be needlessly rude and nasty to say nothing of repetitive.  There is nobody here trying to get away with anything, we're all here because we want to be and expressing frustration with the volatility and inconsistency of the law here in no way merits the rude attacks you've been spraying on this thread.  Please quit it.

C'mon guys. Let's just be real. Everyone living in Vietnam, the locals as well as the expats knows about the situation here and how to get things done legally.

The first thing about the government setting new laws? I'm not even sure when they will really be put into practice and even if it is, there will still be so many ways to go around it just because corrupted officials willing to accept money to exempt certain cases. That being said, I'm sure there will still be many schools employing teachers without WP. Most of you would also know that there is quite a very high percentage of teachers working in Vietnam without the proper documentations.

Now don't you think that everyone of us living in Vietnam wants to follow the proper steps and producers? Do you think that everyone is rich and wants to pay more money to get something done? The problem is not with expats not following the laws and doing the right thing but there aren't any systems to follow. If the government were to set up proper procedure for everyone to follow, it would be so much easier and lots of agencies who are doing so well with making Visas will be out of business. This will probably add to the number of SMEs closing down in Vietnam again.

I love this country and I really want to stay here. Some are here because of their wives or girlfriends or some are basically here just because they really like this country.

Let's just accept the fact that this is how the country works and just follow it. If you use the phrase " When in Rome, do as the Romans do", then shouldn't we be following the locals here and just be getting things done their way? Through connections and under table?

It's good for you if you can do everything the proper way but that doesn't mean that those people who aren't following the laws are wrong. There is always more than one way to get something done. It's just how you choose to do it and how it applies for you in your life.

After about a year here, you start to hear things like 'well, sure you can do this, nothing is impossible in Vietnam, you just buy your way through it'. So, what do you do? It's seem like the 'culture' already. Waiting for change? 15 years ago, I was here and it was like that! Do you follow or don't you follow? Like because I am ignorant of the traffic rules here, I was waved down by 2 cops. Because my wife was around, they started to talk to her. Next moment, my wife asked me to open my wallet! The rest of the story is history... LOL..
Sure, the only good thing is a lower cost of living here. But honestly, China even has more beautiful scenery.

ChrisFox wrote:

I'm here on a 3-year temporary residency that has a year to go, based on investing in a Vietnamese company.  At the time I was told renewal would be perfunctory; since then, there has been a lot of abuse and now I'm told it could be a problem.  I have other options like sponsorship and work and I am working on both of them.

A friend of mine in TPHCM half-followed my advice to do the same; he went the same route but found his own company to do it, and the company he invested in was flipping sponsorships; taking the money and sponsoring the investor, then silently dropping them to take money from someone else.  The company got Noticed and flagged and when my friend left VN and came back he was stopped at immigration and has had a really bad time.  Now he has to do the three month shtick, which I would earnestly like to avoid.

BTW l3ully I find your snarky "follow the rules or get out" thing to be needlessly rude and nasty to say nothing of repetitive.  There is nobody here trying to get away with anything, we're all here because we want to be and expressing frustration with the volatility and inconsistency of the law here in no way merits the rude attacks you've been spraying on this thread.  Please quit it.

Chris, you have read a lot here ( in this forum). Topics like: how to an English, despite not having a WP or residence .. Opening an English school in my rented apartment..... and loads more like this.
Why move to France, if dislike the French?

And yes, that's exactly the point. Vietnam is a poor country, the wages are low, so people need all ways to get more money to survive. Well, sorry, no politics in this forum, please...

l3ully wrote:

Chris, you have read a lot here ( in this forum). Topics like: how to an English, despite not having a WP or residence .. Opening an English school in my rented apartment..... and loads more like this.
Why move to France, if dislike the French?

Are you like leaving out every other word or something?  That doesn't parse.

Answering the parts (I think) I can make sense out of .. there are things I like about living here, and things I don't.  I've written about both.  And I expect to be able to write about the problem experiences without getting a patellar reaction of "love it or leave it."  I lived through the 70s in the USA and had enough of that back then to last me.

To expect to live somewhere and love everything about it, without a single misgiving, is unrealistic.  This is Vietnam, not heaven.  What matters is that I would rather live here than in the USA, because there are more Bad Things about the USA than there are here.  American society is disintegrating and some Americans are becoming astonishingly nasty people. 

I live here.  I want to stay here.  I expect to be buried here.  That doesn't mean there's nothing here I dislike.  There are cigarettes, litter, and dangerous driving.  But in the USA there are gun nuts, libertarians, and not just inattentive drivers but dangerously aggressive ones.  Anyway, I gripe sometimes, and I will continue to gripe sometimes, and if you don't like that just put me on ignore.

Sploke77 wrote:

After about a year here, you start to hear things like 'well, sure you can do this, nothing is impossible in Vietnam, you just buy your way through it'. So, what do you do? It's seem like the 'culture' already. Waiting for change? 15 years ago, I was here and it was like that! Do you follow or don't you follow? Like because I am ignorant of the traffic rules here, I was waved down by 2 cops. Because my wife was around, they started to talk to her. Next moment, my wife asked me to open my wallet! The rest of the story is history... LOL..
Sure, the only good thing is a lower cost of living here. But honestly, China even has more beautiful scenery.

15 years and it was like 15 years ago?!? Nooooo, it's worse than 15 years ago!!!

A lot of things need to be fixed means a lot of time need to be taken!!! It's estimated that 95 years later, VN will catch up with present of Thailand?!? So, what can we choose?!? Waiting... And trying hard! How are you so sure that no one here cares about the situation?!? There are people perhaps you havent met them yet...

And, I just say the right thing, and didnt say following all the regulations? I did say earlier that "the laws in Vietnam sometimes just like s**t" - and trust me, I understand well how hard to follow the regulations here in Vietnam as a Vietnamese and it would be more difficult to foreigners.

Anyway, all understand... How you react show who you are...

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

So I was sitting at a red light the other night and ....almost got ran over by several motorbikes whizzing by me (running said red light).  Then I said ah screw the law, I'm going to protect myself from getting rear-ended.  Was that the right thing to do?

Many times I stop before the red-light while no one stops, some turn their faces shouting at me "crazy"! How nice! Luckily, I'm just a crazy girl! And I have to admit, sometimes I feel happy when I was the first one follow the red-light and people follow me to stop, but sometimes, I do not stop...  It's not easy to follow the rules here... Undeniable!!!

ChrisFox wrote:

l3ully wrote:

Chris, you have read a lot here ( in this forum). Topics like: how to an English, despite not having a WP or residence .. Opening an English school in my rented apartment..... and loads more like this.
Why move to France, if dislike the French?

Are you like leaving out every other word or something?  That doesn't parse.

.....

Sorry Mr Better AMI,

I had not the privilege being born with a US passport as higher education

aibiet150204 wrote:

How are you so sure that no one here cares about the situation?!? There are people perhaps you havent met them yet...

Unfortunately the ones that care can't do anything or don't have the authourity to anything.

Procedures for the new:

01 written request for temporary residence card (Form N7A); declaration about foreigners applying for temporary residence card (form N7B) with 02 photos( image size 2x3 cm);
01 copy of passport and a valid visa( bring an original for comparison);
01 copy or duplicate of legal agencies, organizations, sponsor businesses record that are in need of proposal temporary residence card. As each case, foreigners may summit the following documents: investment certificate, business registration license, established representative office license, branch company( including active notices); seal registration certificate, 01 photo of working permit( bring original for comparison);
The cases of bringing relatives: foreigner must summit some documents such as birth certificate, marriage certificate or household registration .etc

Source : www.vietnam-evisa.org

l3ully wrote:

Sorry Mr Better AMI,

I had not the privilege being born with a US passport as higher education

I think you can write just fine when you want to.

Ich kann auch auf Deutsch schreiben aber wir sollen hier nür auf Englisch schreiben.

I'm disengaging at this point.  I have plenty of political blogs I can fight on.

Yep, Better never learn. They still think, they rule the world. Dream on

Seems Im not the only one who feels that the," Love it or leave it" is getting a bit tiring.

cth wrote:

aibiet150204 wrote:

How are you so sure that no one here cares about the situation?!? There are people perhaps you havent met them yet...

Unfortunately the ones that care can't do anything or don't have the authourity to anything.

That is another story...