Superstitions about fans

You've only just begun to experience a developing countries phobias!

ChrisFox wrote:

Electric fans, quạt máy. 

I use fans to cool off.  I exercise at a gym 4-6 times a week and without fans blowing on me I will practically collapse in the heat.   At home I have the fan blowing on me so I can get by without the air conditioner.

When my housekeeper cleans up the bedroom, if I have left the fan on she assumes that my not setting it to swing back and forth absolutely has to be an oversight and she turns on swing.  I don't want it swinging.  When it swings, it only blows toward me about 10% of the time and the rest of the time, and the electricity, is wasted.

Same at the gym.  I turn the fan to blow on me while I exercise because it's 32 or hotter in there and with the weights I use I will have rivulets of sweat poring down and I am like to topple over in a faint.  First come those who think that to not have it rotating is clearly an oversight.  They think the fan is there to circulate the air.  FYI, at room temperature a molecule of air moves at about a kilometer per second and statistical mechanics says that it would take about 10^96 years before, even for a moment, all the oxygen ended up in one corner.  The air will circulate without any help just fine.

But wait, there is more.

People will walk up and turn the fan off because they are feeling a breeze and they seem to believe that it's really unhealthy, or that we should seek to sweat out the poisons, or something.  Today I had a pharmacy student tell me that a fan will do something horrible to my pores.  A pharmacy student, who probably has some education in human physiology and chemistry.  Some people give me the dirtiest looks I have ever gotten here, as though I'm doing something really ugly and rude. 

As an educated man I happen to know that all this is nonsense.  The clearest danger exercising in this heat is not toxins in the blood (hint: sweat glands have no glomeruli, they aren't kidneys) or closing pores, the danger lifting heavy weights in high temperatures is, the envelope please, overheating.  Have these people never heard of heatstroke?

Even with the fans the same brief workout that took me 30 minutes in the USA takes at least an hour here and some days I can only do four muscle groups instead of six or seven. 

Can someone explain to me what is going on here, about these weird beliefs?

In your own home, you can turn the fan on yourself and be a selfish bastard.  In other places, you need to put it on swing to share the breeze with those around you.  Generally any place that is of a public place, fans are always on to swing.  Get used to it.  You need to acclimate to this weather - otherwise, you need to move to Đà Lạt.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

In your own home, you can turn the fan on yourself and be a selfish bastard.  In other places, you need to put it on swing to share the breeze with those around you.  Generally any place that is of a public place, fans are always on to swing.  Get used to it.  You need to acclimate to this weather - otherwise, you need to move to Đà Lạt.

No, in this place the fans are always off.  They may be dripping with sweat but they act as though the fans are spraying fragments of razor blades.  It's not about sharing.  You have completely missed the point.

ChrisFox wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

In your own home, you can turn the fan on yourself and be a selfish bastard.  In other places, you need to put it on swing to share the breeze with those around you.  Generally any place that is of a public place, fans are always on to swing.  Get used to it.  You need to acclimate to this weather - otherwise, you need to move to Đà Lạt.

No, in this place the fans are always off.  They may be dripping with sweat but they act as though the fans are spraying fragments of razor blades.  It's not about sharing.  You have completely missed the point.

The fans are off because they have been raised in a culture where their bodies have adjusted to the humidity. Some may even view it as waste of resources to have a fan on because as one works out it is natural to sweat. Personally I don't go to the gyms here because there is no air conditioning and fans screw with my sinuses.

I too got the look of death when I turned the fan on in the gym, and the breeze happened to reach an older guy using the pull down lat machine about 5 meters behind me. He walked over and turned the fan off. When I first arrived in Can Tho the manager of the Hotel I was staying at mentioned that it is important to sweat out the toxins at the gym. This is after I asked him if he knew of any aircon gyms in the area. This seems to be the belief of many Vietnamese. I wonder how many people die each year of sweat related toxins?

It could be considered more of a myth to you rather than a superstition. They believe when the pores open up, 'wind' could enter those pores (trung gio), that's when 'cao gio' or 'shaving wind' (according to another thread) comes into play to 'cure' it.
I think, correct me if I'm wrong anyone

Solo1 wrote:

The fans are off because they have been raised in a culture where their bodies have adjusted to the humidity. Some may even view it as waste of resources to have a fan on because as one works out it is natural to sweat. Personally I don't go to the gyms here because there is no air conditioning and fans screw with my sinuses.

You lost me with "waste of resources," sorry, I don't believe for one second that is ever a consideration to anyone here about anything. 

Yeah some people act like a breeze is from the Arctic, but it's just pushing 32 degree air.  And, no, I just can't buy the idea that midday temperatures like this feel "normal" and that cooling down feels like entering a freezer.  Were that the case, they would put on heavy coats after sundown.  And it doesn't explain the notion that the air needs help circulating, or that sweating is some kind of detox.  I think the notion that sweating is in some way detoxifying is related to the leech-like practice that leaves the red circles of suction vesicles on peoples' skin.  That's superstition.  I think this weird stuff about fans is too.

There is another gym nearer my house that doesn't even have fans, but they let people smoke at tables near the front so they lose my business.

BradCT wrote:

I too got the look of death when I turned the fan on in the gym, and the breeze happened to reach an older guy using the pull down lat machine about 5 meters behind me. He walked over and turned the fan off. When I first arrived in Can Tho the manager of the Hotel I was staying at mentioned that it is important to sweat out the toxins at the gym. This is after I asked him if he knew of any aircon gyms in the area. This seems to be the belief of many Vietnamese. I wonder how many people die each year of sweat related toxins?

I'd like to see some stats comparing blood toxicity from holding in the sweat to heatstroke.  I'm betting heatstroke wins out.

cth wrote:

It could be considered more of a myth to you rather than a superstition. They believe when the pores open up, 'wind' could enter those pores (trung gio), that's when 'cao gio' or 'shaving wind' (according to another thread) comes into play to 'cure' it.
I think, correct me if I'm wrong anyone

These are new từ đôi to me and the first response I've gotten that sounds like an actual answer.  Can you elaborate?

BradCT wrote:

I too got the look of death when I turned the fan on in the gym, and the breeze happened to reach an older guy using the pull down lat machine about 5 meters behind me. He walked over and turned the fan off. When I first arrived in Can Tho the manager of the Hotel I was staying at mentioned that it is important to sweat out the toxins at the gym. This is after I asked him if he knew of any aircon gyms in the area. This seems to be the belief of many Vietnamese. I wonder how many people die each year of sweat related toxins?

So...why have fans in gyms at all?

BTW, welcome to Việt Nam and welcome to Expat-Blog.

ChrisFox wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

The fans are off because they have been raised in a culture where their bodies have adjusted to the humidity. Some may even view it as waste of resources to have a fan on because as one works out it is natural to sweat. Personally I don't go to the gyms here because there is no air conditioning and fans screw with my sinuses.

You lost me with "waste of resources," sorry, I don't believe for one second that is ever a consideration to anyone here about anything. 

Yeah some people act like a breeze is from the Arctic, but it's just pushing 32 degree air.  And, no, I just can't buy the idea that midday temperatures like this feel "normal" and that cooling down feels like entering a freezer.  Were that the case, they would put on heavy coats after sundown.  And it doesn't explain the notion that the air needs help circulating, or that sweating is some kind of detox.  I think the notion that sweating is in some way detoxifying is related to the leech-like practice that leaves the red circles of suction vesicles on peoples' skin.  That's superstition.  I think this weird stuff about fans is too.

There is another gym nearer my house that doesn't even have fans, but they let people smoke at tables near the front so they lose my business.

Maybe the word "frugal" would have been more relevant. Why would one pay for electricity to cool down when you are there to sweat?

As far as you not agreeing to VN feeling "normal" at high temperatures consider this. Have you ever seen VN on motorbikes especially women with socks, gloves, long pants, a hoodie pulled up with a helmet on, a face mask and sun glasses in 35 degree weather? I would be frigin boiling but they think it's "normal". Yes, I know it's to protect their skin against the sun but you get my point.

Solo1 wrote:

...
Maybe the word "frugal" would have been more relevant. Why would one pay for electricity to cool down when you are there to sweat?

As far as you not agreeing to VN feeling "normal" at high temperatures consider this. Have you ever seen VN on motorbikes especially women with socks, gloves, long pants, a hoodie pulled up with a helmet on, a face mask and sun glasses in 35 degree weather? I would be frigin boiling but they think it's "normal". Yes, I know it's to protect their skin against the sun but you get my point.

I thought the same thing when I first came to Việt Nam?  Then after getting sunburned and crap sprayed on me when riding on the road...I now am what I laughed at when I first came.  It is frigin boiling but you get used to it.

I also used to laugh at people wearing jackets when I was in Đà Lạt.  Here I was with just a T-shirt; It felt like nothing coming from the USA.  But now, I'm so used to the heat that I need a coat to even going outside at 6 PM since it's so cold!  So I would definitely need a parka the next time I go to Đà Lạt.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

BradCT wrote:

I too got the look of death when I turned the fan on in the gym, and the breeze happened to reach an older guy using the pull down lat machine about 5 meters behind me. He walked over and turned the fan off. When I first arrived in Can Tho the manager of the Hotel I was staying at mentioned that it is important to sweat out the toxins at the gym. This is after I asked him if he knew of any aircon gyms in the area. This seems to be the belief of many Vietnamese. I wonder how many people die each year of sweat related toxins?

So...why have fans in gyms at all?

BTW, welcome to Việt Nam and welcome to Expat-Blog.

Very good question! There are many MANY things in Vietnam that follow no logic. But don't get me started on that. Overall I love it here!

Many thanks for the kind welcome

A myth reflects a religious or nationalistic belief and is generally not historical (meaning we have no direct evidence of the tale actually happening).

To call something superstition is to say that it is an illogical and unfounded belief.

Solo1 wrote:

Maybe the word "frugal" would have been more relevant. Why would one pay for electricity to cool down when you are there to sweat?

As far as you not agreeing to VN feeling "normal" at high temperatures consider this. Have you ever seen VN on motorbikes especially women with socks, gloves, long pants, a hoodie pulled up with a helmet on, a face mask and sun glasses in 35 degree weather? I would be frigin boiling but they think it's "normal". Yes, I know it's to protect their skin against the sun but you get my point.

There are less strenuous ways to sweat; not a single gym I have seen here save perhaps the super expensive one in Hùng Vương Plaza has a steam room or a sauna.  Gyms are for exercising. 

As for the covering up, that is clearly, and I have been told this by dozens of people, because there is a prejudice against dark skin, which is regarded as bumpkinesque.  And it's too bad to me because I find dark skin here to be intensely attractive.  The whores look like ghosts, like dead people, they so whiten themselves. 

We have a distant relative who comes over in long sleeves and gloves and everything, I almost want to gag thinking about how hot it must feel.

My own temperature sense has changed since moving here; I run the AC at a temperature that would have felt hot in the USA, but we're all human with the same 37 degree body temperature and while yes there can be some variation in what we perceive as comfortable, the laws of physics and evaporation are the same for all of us.

BradCT wrote:

...
Very good question! There are many MANY things in Vietnam that follow no logic. ....

Like you picking that monkey's nose.  What are you doing in that avatar picture?

Solo1 wrote:

A myth reflects a religious or nationalistic belief and is generally not historical (meaning we have no direct evidence of the tale actually happening).

To call something superstition is to say that it is an illogical and unfounded belief.

Yes, exactly.  America has the myth that cutting taxes stimulates the economy and the country has had 30 years of declining prosperity thanks to the persistence of this.

Superstition would be the idea that sweating removes (unspecified) toxins from the body.  It doesn't.  Sweat glands aren't kidneys and sweat is salty water with traces of lipid. 

That's why I used the word.

To be more exact, superstition is a belief in false causal relationships, e.g. that walking under a ladder will encourage misfortune.

ChrisFox wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

A myth reflects a religious or nationalistic belief and is generally not historical (meaning we have no direct evidence of the tale actually happening).

To call something superstition is to say that it is an illogical and unfounded belief.

Yes, exactly.  America has the myth that cutting taxes stimulates the economy and the country has had 30 years of declining prosperity thanks to the persistence of this.

Superstition would be the idea that sweating removes (unspecified) toxins from the body.  It doesn't.  Sweat glands aren't kidneys and sweat is salty water with traces of lipid. 

That's why I used the word.

To be more exact, superstition is a belief in false causal relationships, e.g. that walking under a ladder will encourage misfortune.

I should note that I plagiarized that statement as it was quoted from the net. I wanted to beat Dr. Google to the punch

Solo1 wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

To be more exact, superstition is a belief in false causal relationships, e.g. that walking under a ladder will encourage misfortune.

I should note that I plagiarized that statement as it was quoted from the net. I wanted to beat Dr. Google to the punch

I'm using the philosophy-of-science definition of the word.  Scientists have superstitions too.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

BradCT wrote:

...
Very good question! There are many MANY things in Vietnam that follow no logic. ....

Like you picking that monkey's nose.  What are you doing in that avatar picture?

Lol, the Monkey is behind glass, looks like it is sucking my finger

Solo1 wrote:

You've only just begun to experience a developing countries phobias!

Just wait until you're on your bike and your lady puts her whole hand over your face because the bus in front is giving off black soot.Now that's a treat.

jimbream wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

You've only just begun to experience a developing countries phobias!

Just wait until you're on your bike and your lady puts her whole hand over your face because the bus in front is giving off black soot.Now that's a treat.

Or you have been getting sick and with diarrhea for months, then you find out your lady is filling the ice tray with tap water all this time. (Smile Smile không sao!)

Vietnam's not the only East Asian society that believes fans are dangerous. My Korean MBA colleague used to argue that 'fan death' was possible. A grandparent had died from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death

BradCT wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

BradCT wrote:

...
Very good question! There are many MANY things in Vietnam that follow no logic. ....

Like you picking that monkey's nose.  What are you doing in that avatar picture?

Lol, the Monkey is behind glass, looks like it is sucking my finger

I dunno, it looks like you're picking its nose. 

BradCT wrote:

jimbream wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

You've only just begun to experience a developing countries phobias!

Just wait until you're on your bike and your lady puts her whole hand over your face because the bus in front is giving off black soot.Now that's a treat.

Or you have been getting sick and with diarrhea for months, then you find out your lady is filling the ice tray with tap water all this time. (Smile Smile không sao!)

Good one.
Reminds me of a Simpson's episode and Homer's talking about Springfield's tap water-'If it's brown,drink it down.If it's black,send it back.'

jimbream wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

You've only just begun to experience a developing countries phobias!

Just wait until you're on your bike and your lady puts her whole hand over your face because the bus in front is giving off black soot.Now that's a treat.

You don't wear one of those cloth face masks?  You still breath it but...wait are you telling me you don't wear one just so your lady puts her hand over your face?

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

You don't wear one of those cloth face masks?  You still breath it but...wait are you telling me you don't wear one just so your lady puts her hand over your face?

Every time we've had someone attempt suicide using our vehicle as the means, it was someone wearing one of those masks. 

We had one girl go through an intersection right in front of our car, missing her by centimeters only by slamming on brakes.  When I yelled at her for coming within milliseconds of getting killed, she turned around and gave us a bored and distinctly bovine look.  That she had nearly gotten herself killed seemed to make no impression.  Do those masks cut off oxygen to the brain like neckties?

I could recount another half-dozen similar incidents.  In every case the woman was wearing one of those.  I've even seen bikes caroming recklessly around corpses in the road.

I think this may be one of those illogicals that BradCT was talking about

BradCT wrote:

jimbream wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

You've only just begun to experience a developing countries phobias!

Just wait until you're on your bike and your lady puts her whole hand over your face because the bus in front is giving off black soot.Now that's a treat.

Or you have been getting sick and with diarrhea for months, then you find out your lady is filling the ice tray with tap water all this time. (Smile Smile không sao!)

So that was you huh?  You get your bloodwork done yet?

ChrisFox wrote:

I know we don't have tertiary WWT here, do we even have secondary?

Friend of mine has been getting sick here regularly, found out yesterday his GF was filling ice cube trays straight from the tap.  I think he'd better get his bloodwork done.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 72#1584552

lirelou wrote:

Vietnam's not the only East Asian society that believes fans are dangerous. My Korean MBA colleague used to argue that 'fan death' was possible. A grandparent had died from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death

Read the article; it says that the fan is only potentially harmful when the air temperature exceeds body temperature, but omits noting that when there is sweat to evaporate this isn't an issue.  Vaporizing a gram of water removes 5.4 times more heat than what it takes to heat water from the bottom to the top of its liquid range.  Latent heat of vaporization. 

This is important to me because I need to keep up my workout discipline and I don't want issue like this getting in the way.  I don't want conflicts but I can't exercise without the fans, it's just too goddamn hot.  And that isn't anything I can choose

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

BradCT wrote:

jimbream wrote:

Just wait until you're on your bike and your lady puts her whole hand over your face because the bus in front is giving off black soot.Now that's a treat.

Or you have been getting sick and with diarrhea for months, then you find out your lady is filling the ice tray with tap water all this time. (Smile Smile không sao!)

So that was you huh?  You get your bloodwork done yet?

ChrisFox wrote:

I know we don't have tertiary WWT here, do we even have secondary?

Friend of mine has been getting sick here regularly, found out yesterday his GF was filling ice cube trays straight from the tap.  I think he'd better get his bloodwork done.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 72#1584552

That would be me! Haven't had blood work done yet, returning to Sydney next month, will get a full health check done then. And to think my lady will not allow our dog in my study because she says it is unhygienic, but drinking untreated tap water is okay

ChrisFox wrote:

lirelou wrote:

Vietnam's not the only East Asian society that believes fans are dangerous. My Korean MBA colleague used to argue that 'fan death' was possible. A grandparent had died from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death

Read the article; it says that the fan is only potentially harmful when the air temperature exceeds body temperature, but omits noting that when there is sweat to evaporate this isn't an issue.  Vaporizing a gram of water removes 5.4 times more heat than what it takes to heat water from the bottom to the top of its liquid range.  Latent heat of vaporization. 

This is important to me because I need to keep up my workout discipline and I don't want issue like this getting in the way.  I don't want conflicts but I can't exercise without the fans, it's just too goddamn hot.  And that isn't anything I can choose

Just wondering how long you've lived in VN and have you lived in any other underdeveloped countries?

This fan issue is a hot topic! 

Solo1 wrote:

Just wondering how long you've lived in VN and have you lived in any other underdeveloped countries?

Three years here (3rd anniversary a week away), two years in Spain a long long time ago.

BradCT wrote:

And to think my lady will not allow our dog in my study because she says it is unhygienic, but drinking untreated tap water is okay

I'd say Kiki just got her indoor passport

Now I understand why you look so grumpy lol

Anniest wrote:

Now I understand why you look so grumpy lol

Too funny.  Why don't you use your old avatar Anniest...that one always cracks me up.  Retard girl...

Solo1 wrote:

This fan issue is a hot topic! 

Solo1 wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

lirelou wrote:

Vietnam's not the only East Asian society that believes fans are dangerous. My Korean MBA colleague used to argue that 'fan death' was possible. A grandparent had died from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death

Read the article; it says that the fan is only potentially harmful when the air temperature exceeds body temperature, but omits noting that when there is sweat to evaporate this isn't an issue.  Vaporizing a gram of water removes 5.4 times more heat than what it takes to heat water from the bottom to the top of its liquid range.  Latent heat of vaporization. 

This is important to me because I need to keep up my workout discipline and I don't want issue like this getting in the way.  I don't want conflicts but I can't exercise without the fans, it's just too goddamn hot.  And that isn't anything I can choose

Just wondering how long you've lived in VN and have you lived in any other underdeveloped countries?

What makes you wonder that Solo1?  Cuz every posts of ChrisFox reads like a "I hate it here, the people suck here" post?

ChrisFox wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

Just wondering how long you've lived in VN and have you lived in any other underdeveloped countries?

Three years here (3rd anniversary a week away), two years in Spain a long long time ago.

Spain wouldn't be considered underdeveloped. 

Wow, three years...so who'd you complain to all those years here?