Buying, Building or Renting

ancientpathos wrote:

My Vietnamese friends tell me I should buy or build a house. I have a nice place that I rent in Da Nang with utilities cost me around $300 per month on the beach.

If I was to build a house, it would be a single story 3 bedrooms, outdoor toilet and shower, outdoor kitchen, living/dining room. Outdoor toilet and shower makes sense along with an outdoor kitchen due to mildew and smells. Any ideas on the costs involved with building?

Buying, I would want a place in a small village or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?

I know a lot of research, but maybe someone has already done this.

Sai Gon ???  A house

Cost will depend on the District, how new/old, or having it built yourself.

Not sure if the rules have changed again (yet) - last year it was that if your brought an existing house, you could then knock it down and proceed to have your own design built with a minimum of BS paperwork to be approved.

Two days ago, asked my wife what she wanted for her birthday this time.
ANSWER -> nice (read new) house/villa in a good, safe district of Sai Gon. 

Anyone got a million or so US dollars they don't need ?

We built, back in the recession when vật liệu xây dụng was cheap.  Four stories to have guest rooms.  Two adjacent land parcels to have a yard & garden. 

Advice: look hard for a good plumber.

Ron,

I highly suggest that you make sure that you are able to legally buy properties first.  Don't put the cart before the horse, my friend.

Wild_1 wrote:

Ron,

I highly suggest that you make sure that you are able to legally buy properties first.  Don't put the cart before the horse, my friend.

Seconded.  Be VERY wary of proxy owners.

Wild_1 wrote:

Ron,

I highly suggest that you make sure that you are able to legally buy properties first.  Don't put the cart before the horse, my friend.

Hey Howie,
I am in no hurry, not sure if I want to do it. Just thought I would look into it.  The rain and flooding in Quang Ngai has given me too much free time. I understand that the property needs to be in a trusted friends name.

Yup, "trusted" is the key word.  I can legally own anything in Vietnam, but I still have my doubts.  So, you have not missed much.  Take your time.

At the rate that the Vietnamese economy is going, the real estate market is not going to recover anytime soon.

ancientpathos wrote:

My Vietnamese friends tell me I should buy or build a house. I have a nice place that I rent in Da Nang with utilities cost me around $300 per month on the beach.

If I was to build a house, it would be a single story 3 bedrooms, outdoor toilet and shower, outdoor kitchen, living/dining room. Outdoor toilet and shower makes sense along with an outdoor kitchen due to mildew and smells. Any ideas on the costs involved with building?

Buying, I would want a place in a small villiage or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?

I know a lot of research, but maybe someone has already done this.

One of my aunties built a house similar to what you are describing except that the bathrooms, two kitchens, and a large storage room is inside vs outside. 1 level house, 3000 sq. ft in the countryside of Tay Ninh. Of course, she owns the land but it's on about 1 acre. I believe it was built over a year ago for about $45,000. She also has a small house in downtown Tay Ninh that she has owned forever and it's worth over $600,000. I don't think you should buy anything for a while. Things could change at a moment's notice and I don't think you want to commit to a big purchase given the amount of time you have been in Vietnam. You like to work in different places so having a place would tie you down too.

ancientpathos wrote:

My Vietnamese friends tell me I should buy or build a house. I have a nice place that I rent in Da Nang with utilities cost me around $300 per month on the beach.

If I was to build a house, it would be a single story 3 bedrooms, outdoor toilet and shower, outdoor kitchen, living/dining room. Outdoor toilet and shower makes sense along with an outdoor kitchen due to mildew and smells. Any ideas on the costs involved with building?

Buying, I would want a place in a small villiage or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?

I know a lot of research, but maybe someone has already done this.

$300 a month!? On the beach!?
When you move out I'll move in.

jimbream wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

My Vietnamese friends tell me I should buy or build a house. I have a nice place that I rent in Da Nang with utilities cost me around $300 per month on the beach.

If I was to build a house, it would be a single story 3 bedrooms, outdoor toilet and shower, outdoor kitchen, living/dining room. Outdoor toilet and shower makes sense along with an outdoor kitchen due to mildew and smells. Any ideas on the costs involved with building?

Buying, I would want a place in a small villiage or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?

I know a lot of research, but maybe someone has already done this.

$300 a month!? On the beach!?
When you move out I'll move in.
[img align=c]http://www.965malls.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Beach-BBQ.jpg[/url]

Its in Da Nang, My Khe beach. There are plenty of places here, some also rent cheaper. Cost of living is cheaper here too.

MIA2013 wrote:

... I don't think you should buy anything for a while. Things could change at a moment's notice and I don't think you want to commit to a big purchase given the amount of time you have been in Vietnam. You like to work in different places so having a place would tie you down too.

There was an article I read a while back that talked about the provision for allowing foreigners to own houses...or maybe it was a provision for allowing Vietnamese-Americans/Canadians/Europeans (Overseas people-whose-citizenship-is-not-Vietnamese-but-the-government-wants-to-take-credit-for Vietnamese) to own land...yet only like 200 something people took it up. 

http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/239511/vn-encourages-foreign-home-buyers.html

Ah okay, found the article.  The government here separates foreigners into two categories.  The 1975 diaspora and the non-Vietnamese looking foreigners:

The ministry's statistics showed that after four years, only 121 foreigners owned houses in Viet Nam while Viet kieu (overseas Vietnamese) owners numbered just 400.

Hi chris, how did you go with the title? VN friend looked at some land 55000 to 75000$ cheapie was just that no real title she found it too easy too insecure

Saigon is expensive as another posted noted, it all comes down to where you buy. I have looked around Saigon numerous times but cannot justify some prices being asked.My gf does property and business loans and she is always saying Saigon is just over the top for what you get. My advice is to stay where you are and look around, its much better value and much nicer lifestyle.

This may give you some idea of prices
http://muabannhadat.com.vn/nha_ban/t59_tp-ho_chi_minh/

Binh Duong could be a good alternative to Saigon, especially if you're looking to buy land. They'll even sell it in bulk for a good deal.

last year in Vietnam they tried to sell me 100 square meter land for $10 grand in Binh Duong. Is that deal going on or has the price gone down due to many people caught in the hype and now there's an over supply.

ancientpathos wrote:

... would want a place in a small villiage or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?.

Well, your girl wants you or wants the house? this should be the reason why many Vietnamese girls want western guys, shouldnt it?

- now, the foreigner cannot own a house (aka the land) but a commercial appartment in some cases (I remember like staying here for business purpose more than 6 months or something) - not sure which ones. But yeah, think about the appartment only. Just in case your girl or somebody tells you like: "oh, you cannot own real estate in Vietnam, trust me, I will be your nominee for the ownership certificate, blah blah blah." and then, one bright day, you are legally kicked off the house because your girl legally owns the house!

Bingo! I need to think about a guy who can buy me a house in HCMC - just small one, a but far from the centre, just $100k

Wild_1 wrote:

I can legally own anything in Vietnam, but I still have my doubts.  So, you have not missed much.

Wild_1: I admired you! "anything" like "everything"?!? so you got dualcitizenship then?

aibiet150204 wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

... would want a place in a small villiage or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?.

Well, your girl wants you or wants the house? this should be the reason why many Vietnamese girls want western guys, shouldnt it?

- now, the foreigner cannot own a house (aka the land) but a commercial appartment in some cases (I remember like staying here for business purpose more than 6 months or something) - not sure which ones. But yeah, think about the appartment only. Just in case your girl or somebody tells you like: "oh, you cannot own real estate in Vietnam, trust me, I will be your nominee for the ownership certificate, blah blah blah." and then, one bright day, you are legally kicked off the house because your girl legally owns the house!

Bingo! I need to think about a guy who can buy me a house in HCMC - just small one, a but far from the centre, just $100k

Now that I have some information, I can honestly report to my girl that she needs to find another guy, I can not justfy spending this much. Its better she knows this now so she can plan for the future.

khanh44 wrote:

last year in Vietnam they tried to sell me 100 square meter land for $10 grand in Binh Duong. Is that deal going on or has the price gone down due to many people caught in the hype and now there's an over supply.

It's around 180mil vnd now, so the prices have dropped. Probably will continue to drop until they can get a steady flow of people moving there. So a good time to buy.

mark stutley wrote:

Hi chris, how did you go with the title? VN friend looked at some land 55000 to 75000$ cheapie was just that no real title she found it too easy too insecure

We bought two mảnh đất nhỏ in 2006 for 300 million ₫ apiece.  My partner' uncle (attorney) was our proxy owner.  Started construction in early 2010, moved here in November of that year.  He transferred ownership to a childhood friend from Ô Môn whom he can trust; now he's dual and the plot with the house was already in his name and we are transferring the other.

But it was all a royal pain.  The lawyer uncle went around bragging the land was his, and wanted to design and build the house, and skim skim skim, giving us a house that would look like a cigar butt on an angel food cake compared to the rest of the neighborhood.  When we wanted to do it ourselves they "lost face" and, well, you can figure out what our relationship with them is like now. 

The land tripled in value at the peak, now worth about 750 or so.  But we aren't selling.  We put a little over two tỷ into building the house.

http://namlongcantho.com/file_upload/ga … case/8.jpg

Ancient,
   My reply is based on opportunity costs. For this reason I can see no financial reason to own in VN.
Of course, for many financial cornes don't come into play.
Opportunity costs= If your house were to cost $100,000 to build you and could get a 6% return if this money were invested you would receive $6,000 per year in income.
Now the question comes in how much could you rent an equal house for. Say you can rent for $400 a month. This would cost you $4,800 a year. So your net loss on the $100,000 is $1,200 a year.

  Put another way, in the USA a $100,000 house should rent for 1% of the total value. In our case here you could rent out your $100,000 investment for $1,000 a month.

  Here in my Apt bldg in HCM the next door neighbor just sold a 61sqm for $60,000. That should rent for $600.00 a month. But you can't get anything over $375 per month. So this person decided to lose $225.00 a month. In actuality much more as they can get a better return on the $60,000 than the 6% in the hypothetical we use here.
  Of course, this does not address the issue of an expat buying in NV at all as far as legal terms .
Hope that is helpful. If I knew how much you planned in put out to build I could give you harder #. Also you can easily get a 9% return. So if you use that % things get worse. Just depends how much of your retirement money you can afford to lose each month.

May I ask question here please.
I have an 1 year old daughter who has a Vietnamese citizenship.
Can I buy a property(land or house) in the name of my daughter?
Thank you in advance

Aibiet wrote:

"oh, you cannot own real estate in Vietnam, trust me, I will be your nominee for the ownership certificate, blah blah blah." and then, one bright day, you are legally kicked off the house because your girl legally owns the house!

That is pretty good!  I have seen and heard so many people who suffer this nightmare.

I admired you! "anything" like "everything"?!? big_smile so you got dualcitizenship then?

Correctamundo, seniorita!  Yup, that's the one. 

ChrisFox wrote:

The land tripled in value at the peak, now worth about 750 or so.  But we aren't selling.  We put a little over two tỷ into building the house.

Now, that is the way to think.  There are far better ways to triple your money than to invest into the perilous Vietnamese real estate market.

bta87 wrote:

Opportunity costs= If your house were to cost $100,000 to build you and could get a 6% return if this money were invested you would receive $6,000 per year in income.
Now the question comes in how much could you rent an equal house for. Say you can rent for $400 a month. This would cost you $4,800 a year. So your net loss on the $100,000 is $1,200 a year.

Great observation!  Allow me to add that, in renting, you get to change your settings every now and then, making life a lot more enchanting.

I didn't buy the land my house is on as an investment, I buy land elsewhere for that.  Mostly in PQ.

I only mentioned current value because you were talking earlier about the earlier real estate boom here.

Based on your "outdoor" requirements, maybe you should look at something in Nhà Bè, near Phú Mỹ Hưng, district 7. It's around 30 mins away from Saigon center and costs appro. $50,000. There are some new projects coming up that are kind of interesting!

I'm not much interested in buying a house in Saigon, too overpriced! I inherited a very nice house in the heart of Saigon and district 1. My mom told me she paid only ~500 USD in the 1960s. Now it is 3 million USD worth. Waaaaayyy too overpriced!

CaliG wrote:

May I ask question here please.
I have an 1 year old daughter who has a Vietnamese citizenship.
Can I buy a property(land or house) in the name of my daughter?
Thank you in advance

Is this a serious question?  How are you going to go to the police station and have your 1-year old daughter sign the paperwork?  In crayon?  Legal age is 18.

This article talks about crime and punishment but 18 is currently the basis for legal proceedings as an adult.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/3883/lega … 6-official
The majority age in Vietnam, the age at which people can fully be responsible for their acts as adults, should be lowered from 18 to 16, said Major General Ho Trong Ngu, deputy chairman of the NA’s Committee for Defense and Security.

THD wrote:

How are you going to go to the police station and have your 1-year old daughter sign the paperwork?  In crayon?

That's a good one!!!

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Is this a serious question?  How are you going to go to the police station and have your 1-year old daughter sign the paperwork?  In crayon?  Legal age is 18.
[/i]

Is her legal representative (the parents) can not sign the paperwork for her ? Anyway thank you for your answer.

CaliG wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Is this a serious question?  How are you going to go to the police station and have your 1-year old daughter sign the paperwork?  In crayon?  Legal age is 18.
[/i]

Is her legal representative (the parents) can not sign the paperwork for her ? Anyway thank you for your answer.

Is this a thing in any country? If people could sign off things in their child's name, the upcoming generation would forever be in debt to things they did not consent to.

Wild_1 wrote:

THD wrote:

How are you going to go to the police station and have your 1-year old daughter sign the paperwork?  In crayon?

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rolling.gif
That's a good one!!!

Wild_1: we all know well that Tran Hung Dao is very good (well, in most cases! But not all... ), dont we?!?

Seems with the rest of countries real estate going down in price, Vung Tau's real estate is moving in the opposite direction. Visited Vung Tau last year and seems to be a population boom happening there. Lots of traffic in the downtown type area.

Wait a minute on that 1 year old question. Does not a trust have a right to buy and sell property in Vietnam? If so, the Child can be the owner, with the trustee's acting in the Child's behalf.

Many years ago, when my mind was more agile, I worked on a case involving an entire housing complex whose true owners were six minor Children from Texas. IIRC, the Trust owned the property, which was administered for the minors by the Trustees until the minors became of age.

Is this a thing in any country? If people could sign off things in their child's name, the upcoming generation would forever be in debt to things they did not consent to.

Milky, here in the United States it's called Social Security.

My Anh-Viet dictionary published by the Nha Xuat Ban The Gioi contains definitions for trusts, trustee, and trusteeship, so the concept appears to be known in Vietnamese law. So there must be a section of the Civil Code dealing in Trusts. Any Vietnamese lawyers out there?

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
   My reply is based on opportunity costs. For this reason I can see no financial reason to own in VN.
Of course, for many financial cornes don't come into play.
Opportunity costs= If your house were to cost $100,000 to build you and could get a 6% return if this money were invested you would receive $6,000 per year in income.
Now the question comes in how much could you rent an equal house for. Say you can rent for $400 a month. This would cost you $4,800 a year. So your net loss on the $100,000 is $1,200 a year.

  Put another way, in the USA a $100,000 house should rent for 1% of the total value. In our case here you could rent out your $100,000 investment for $1,000 a month.

  Here in my Apt bldg in HCM the next door neighbor just sold a 61sqm for $60,000. That should rent for $600.00 a month. But you can't get anything over $375 per month. So this person decided to lose $225.00 a month. In actuality much more as they can get a better return on the $60,000 than the 6% in the hypothetical we use here.
  Of course, this does not address the issue of an expat buying in NV at all as far as legal terms .
Hope that is helpful. If I knew how much you planned in put out to build I could give you harder #. Also you can easily get a 9% return. So if you use that % things get worse. Just depends how much of your retirement money you can afford to lose each month.

bta87,
Thank you for your effort. I showed your facts and figures to my girl, her response: "you no love me", my response: "what does love have to do with buying or renting", her response: "you no love me". I know where this was heading so I just left for a while.

ancientpathos wrote:

Thank you for your effort. I showed your facts and figures to my girl, her response: "you no love me", my response: "what does love have to do with buying or renting", her response: "you no love me". I know where this was heading so I just left for a while.

Hoo boy.

Long day ahead.

ancientpathos wrote:

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
   My reply is based on opportunity costs. For this reason I can see no financial reason to own in VN.
Of course, for many financial cornes don't come into play.
Opportunity costs= If your house were to cost $100,000 to build you and could get a 6% return if this money were invested you would receive $6,000 per year in income.
Now the question comes in how much could you rent an equal house for. Say you can rent for $400 a month. This would cost you $4,800 a year. So your net loss on the $100,000 is $1,200 a year.

  Put another way, in the USA a $100,000 house should rent for 1% of the total value. In our case here you could rent out your $100,000 investment for $1,000 a month.

  Here in my Apt bldg in HCM the next door neighbor just sold a 61sqm for $60,000. That should rent for $600.00 a month. But you can't get anything over $375 per month. So this person decided to lose $225.00 a month. In actuality much more as they can get a better return on the $60,000 than the 6% in the hypothetical we use here.
  Of course, this does not address the issue of an expat buying in NV at all as far as legal terms .
Hope that is helpful. If I knew how much you planned in put out to build I could give you harder #. Also you can easily get a 9% return. So if you use that % things get worse. Just depends how much of your retirement money you can afford to lose each month.

bta87,

If your girl is saying this to you its like a warning sign flashing in front of your face, I wouod be very careful if I was you.
Thank you for your effort. I showed your facts and figures to my girl, her response: "you no love me", my response: "what does love have to do with buying or renting", her response: "you no love me". I know where this was heading so I just left for a while.

ancientpathos wrote:

jimbream wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

My Vietnamese friends tell me I should buy or build a house. I have a nice place that I rent in Da Nang with utilities cost me around $300 per month on the beach.

If I was to build a house, it would be a single story 3 bedrooms, outdoor toilet and shower, outdoor kitchen, living/dining room. Outdoor toilet and shower makes sense along with an outdoor kitchen due to mildew and smells. Any ideas on the costs involved with building?

Buying, I would want a place in a small villiage or rural area. Current girl wants house in Saigon aka HCMC. Any ideas on cost to buy?

I know a lot of research, but maybe someone has already done this.

$300 a month!? On the beach!?
When you move out I'll move in.
[img align=c]http://www.965malls.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Beach-BBQ.jpg[/url]

Its in Da Nang, My Khe beach. There are plenty of places here, some also rent cheaper. Cost of living is cheaper here too.

Wait until you see the other My Khe beach, when your back in QN, I'm an expert, ( now unfortunately ),  in building, land and building material prices around here . Hard to get sections wider than 10 metres these days anywhere, so inevitably you will end up with the usual long narrow, or tall VN building.

Like a locomotive stood on one end

ChrisFox wrote:

Like a locomotive stood on one end

I shake my head when I see these 3 or 4 floor, freestanding buildings.
I watched another floor being added, ( another 200 ton of concrete? ) to the first floor of one house here, must have had good ' foundations' ?

lirelou wrote:

Milky, here in the United States it's called Social Security.

Ahahaa, touche!!! But yes, technically in US a minor can only own property if they emancipated. A minor's name goes on the documents in the case that it is inheritance but still must have a legal guardian take responsibility until legal age. No idea on Vietnam, but a good question to answer.

lirelou wrote:

My Anh-Viet dictionary published by the Nha Xuat Ban The Gioi contains definitions for trusts, trustee, and trusteeship, so the concept appears to be known in Vietnamese law. So there must be a section of the Civil Code dealing in Trusts. Any Vietnamese lawyers out there?

I do have a lawyer buddy, I am definitely asking him this next time we chat. Good to know more about property laws here.