Gossip!

CrisFox, 
there are some really charming people about aren't there ?

I know someone like this. Keep telling my husband to stop contact with her. All she does is spread lies about business transactions, relationship issues, etc about another friend she's jealous of. Claims she has the other woman's house keepers as her "spies" to inform her of her secrets. She got in a bike crash and needed surgery and guess who came and paid for the operation? The friend she spends so much time hating on. Hope she feels like a royal jerk when she recovers.

'milkybunnyHCM'

lets face it - some people are like that, it's just in their nature, and nothing will change them.    


Sad but true fact of life.

That's all part and parcel of living in Rural VN, the stories getting bigger and more bullshit added every time they are repeated, what they don't know , they will make up , probably because they have stuff all else to do or talk about, ( this is one reason why I've never been in a great rush to learn Viet, I was told it's 10% useful and 90% gossip ).

Where I lived in Woodinville, WA, there were six miles of one-lane no-passing roads to reach my house, whatever the direction, with a speed limit of 40 MPH.  It was rare to get to drive that fast as unless it was late at night there was always someone going substantially below the limit and clearly enjoying frustration the drivers behind them, slowing them down.  This was but one example of a malice that I have seen grow and grow, a joy derived from being a nuisance, in bothering people. 

One thing I noticed coming here, more and more often, is that the Vietnamese didn't have this malice, that bothering people wasn't something people did for fun.

I was wrong.  They have their own variety of malice, and it's connected with the one thing they care about vastly more than we do: what people think about each other.  Reputation.  Face.

We westerners tend to care only about the opinions of those who matter to us, who can affect us; our lovers, family, coworkers.  Strangers?  To hell with 'em.  Here, reputation, face, is everything and malice is exercised by besmirching it.

Indeed, seems like everybody here is a 'frenemy'!

Hey Chris,

As you know, myself and girlfriend have been on the receiving end of gossip and lies since moving to Vietnam. Many attempts have been made to sabotage our relationship. Perhaps these friends are trying to protect me, have their own agenda or I am experiencing yet another "cultural misunderstanding". My favourite (and most elaborate plot) was the text message my girlfriend supposedly sent to the boss of a hotel receptionist, threatening to pour acid on her face if she ever flirts with me again. Would seem both the Hotel boss and receptionist were in on that one.

My advice to new expats in Vietnam is trust nobody, and do not believe everything you are told. Sleep with one eye open my friends!

Yeah that's competitive matchmaking carried just a lit-tle too far.  I hope nobody was seriously contemplating disfiguring someone.

ChrisFox wrote:

This was but one example of a malice that I have seen grow and grow with the ascent of right wing politics in the USA, a joy derived from being a nuisance, in bothering people.

Whoa! Do you think malice is only from the right wing perspective? I think you should check your US history. In fact you should check your world history. Malice, contempt, hatred, persecution and war are not right wing or left wing exclusives, but a matter of the current level of the human mental, emotional and spiritual capacity. Unfortunately, we as a species have not matured much as we see history repeat itself based on the lower more base forms of our interactions.

And if I am totally misreading your comments this is the type of gossip that feeds the masses with misinformation and biased perceptions.

One thing I noticed coming here, more and more often, is that the Vietnamese didn't have this malice, that bothering people wasn't something people did for fun.

I was wrong.  They have their own variety of malice, and it's connected with the one thing they care about vastly more than we do: what people think about each other.  Reputation.  Face.

The condition is called "being human" and no place in the world is free from it. It arises from the 'social' part of being 'social animals'.

*removing discussion of inadvertent remark in earlier post*

@lirelou: I was naive.  I concede it.  I based it mostly on reactions to being honked at.  I was wrong.

ChrisFox wrote:

@Good: do you blog?  To question this connection is to me like asserting no relationship between bullets and guns.  Off topic, however, feel free to take this to private mail and maybe we can Skype.

Hmm curious question you ask, does it matter if I blog or not? Your assertion avoids my question that has validity. Do you think gossip and malice, as you so absurdly put it, has anything to do with the spectrum of political consciousness or is gossip and malice a function of the human condition?

*removing discussion of inadvertent remark in earlier post*

ChrisFox wrote:

This was but one example of a malice that I have seen grow and grow with the ascent of right wing politics in the USA, a joy derived from being a nuisance, in bothering people.

More false facts and figures from the liberal book of false facts and figures, I see.

I guess you subscribe to the Joseph Goebbells philosophy, “It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”

ChrisFox wrote:

If you want to have a serious discussion

Haha, you made a funny! Everyone knows it is impossible to have a serious discussion with a paleoliberal such as you.

*removing discussion of inadvertent remark in earlier post*

For my 2 VND's worth, I've found the leftie and rightwing hot-heads, religious and/or political, are in just about every country of the whole world.
It's just that in some countries they display their views (and tempers) more openly than in other places.
In Israel for instance, serious discussions about every subject on earth. Take two Jews debating just one subject and you're going to get at least three totally different opinions in the end.

ChrisFox wrote:

Does one have a lot LOT more of it than the other?  Absolutely.  This is my unvarying experience of political activism and debate for over 40 years.  And the imbalance is greater every year. 

If you want to have a serious discussion, we can take it offline as we are entirely off topic at this point.  I you just want to call me names, find someone else to play with.  It's not absurd.  It's just about the most robust correlation I've ever run into.

Point one I am presuming you are talking about politics in the USA, correct? If you are I strongly suggest you brush up on your history. Here is an article from today that proves my point that political activism is not relegated to one side of the spectrum.

http://news.yahoo.com/are-republicans-r … 14638.html

Point two, I did not call you absurd, but what you said is absurd. I hope an intelligent person like yourself can distinguish between an action and a person. For example, if you inadvertently cut someone off in traffic the action is asinine, but it doesn't make the person an ass, does it?

So if you really want to have a serious discussion I think intelligent people on this blog would enjoy a discussion of the merits of your thoughts.

FYI when you talk about name calling I also strongly suggest you look at your own words for content AND intent.

*removing discussion of inadvertent remark in earlier post*

ChrisFox wrote:

This was but one example of a malice that I have seen grow and grow with the ascent of right wing politics in the USA, a joy derived from being a nuisance, in bothering people.

Come on Chris... You KNEW when you typed this sentence you would get a rise out of one or more posters here. Don't post this stuff, then act all righteous about people going off-topic when they reply/react to it.

saigonmonkey wrote:

*
Come on Chris... You KNEW when you typed this sentence you would get a rise out of one or more posters here. Don't post this stuff, then act all righteous about people going off-topic when they reply/react to it.

Not true.  Had I known the side trail it would lead to I would have left it out but I regard its truth as self-evident.  On the level of "men don't bear children."

Point taken, however.

I went back to that post and removed those few words and have deleted my own posts in responding to it.  In other news, the sky appears blue and the sun rises in the east.

Ah, C'mon Chris. You know you like to throw the bait out and wiggle it a little bit just to see of the fish are biting. All this despite a "No Fishing" sign posted by M. Julien, propriétaire.

You doth protest too much, me thinks ;-)

lirelou wrote:

Ah, C'mon Chris. You know you like to throw the bait out and wiggle it a little bit just to see of the fish are biting. All this despite a "No Fishing" sign posted by M. Julien, propriétaire.

You doth protest too much, me thinks

You don't know me.  If I was looking for a fight it wouldn't be a suggestive goad, it'd be a two-handed shove to the chest.  I'm a New Yorker, even if I did live in Seattle for decades.

Most of the blogging I do is political.  Sometimes I don't switch gears when I switch blogs.  I've done it on the parrot list I manage in Seattle, too. Grannies with lovebirds don't want to hear about Palin and Mike Lee.

I have the same problem with languages.  If I meet a German tourist here and speak German for a half hour, I'm saying Danke to Vietnamese fruit-sellers.  For a week.  It's a weakness that's an extended strength; I can concentrate for hours when I need to and have done trailblazing work in software.  But I don't shift gears well.

I went back and deleted the original what, three words, that set off this kerfuffle.  What, you want to keep it up? 

OK, you want flying fur, let's talk about libertarians.

ChrisFox wrote:

OK, you want flying fur, let's talk about libertarians.

What bad can you say about librarians? You got something against books?

Oh libertarians hehehehe

lirelou wrote:

Ah, C'mon Chris. You know you like to throw the bait out and wiggle it a little bit just to see of the fish are biting. All this despite a "No Fishing" sign posted by M. Julien, propriétaire.

You doth protest too much, me thinks ;-)

La Verdad!

MIA2013 wrote:

La Verdad!

You gotta do the translation otherwise a mod will come to remind you this is an English forum. 

Good thing I'm multi-linguistic (called Google).

La Verdad! = the truth! ... comes from the latin root "per dad" who always said "Don't lie to me, you better tell me the truth or I'll knock your teeth out."

Good_Man wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

OK, you want flying fur, let's talk about libertarians.

What bad can you say about librarians? You got something against books?

Oh libertarians hehehehe

I'm the biggest bibliophile you ever saw.  Even after getting rid of 90% of my books I still have a library room here, about 90% physics.  Expensive books that are mostly beyond me but I'll go back to it when my Vietnamese is better.

My eyes are going and I am not quite at the wearing glasses habit yet, and have gone from over a hundred books a year to a few dozen.  It's awful.  Science, crime noir, hard science fiction, literature.

MIA2013 wrote:

La Verdad!

Lyrics to Lou Reed "Heroin," "Rock & Roll Animal" version, the line following "big fat talk."

[Thread closed for getting way off topic]