Considering a big move to Hanoi from Canada

If you leave, you'll miss the mayoral election.

That is funny, good point, though not sure enough to keep me from leaving

If he wins, you know there's going to be a big party.  Lots of booze, blow and strippers.

I can't imagine he will get back in, but you never know!  I know he won't get my vote

How do you like living in Hong Kong?

It's a lot warmer and more humid than Toronto.  I'm sure the same can be said of Hanoi.

Depend what you want. Language is a bit issue and living style is also different. But if you like to explore, give it a try. By the way, the whether all year long is around 20c to 24c

Don't do it Kelly! I have been here in Saigon for 7 years and been to most places in Vietnam. Hanoi is colder than Canada figuratively speaking because houses and hotels don't have central heat. The language is a huge problem and women are considered disposable. Vietnam has thousands of hotels that advertise hourly rates. Hmmm...  I'm Canadian from St. Catharines, Ontario and I say again; don't do it. This place is a living hell.

I do believe wrote:

Don't do it Kelly! I have been here in Saigon for 7 years and been to most places in Vietnam. Hanoi is colder than Canada figuratively speaking because houses and hotels don't have central heat. The language is a huge problem and women are considered disposable. Vietnam has thousands of hotels that advertise hourly rates. Hmmm...  I'm Canadian from St. Catharines, Ontario and I say again; don't do it. This place is a living hell.

Hi there,
Do you think of re-locating?

kelly0226 wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I currently live in Toronto Canada.  Life has taken me in a direction of exploring opportunities overseas.  I have a connection in Hanoi who suggested I come over and teach English.

I would love to hear experiences from other expats?  I went to college and have a diploma, but not a BA from University, does anyone know if that will hinder me in finding work teaching in Hanoi?  My friend says no, but I would love to hear experiences from others.

To stay or to go, that is where I am at, I would love to hear about others going to Hanoi from countries like Canada, US, Australia, Europe etc...  How you settled, was it a big culture shock?  Did you or do you still miss the comforts of home?  Did you find it easy to meet people?  These are all things that keep me up at night

I look forward to connecting!

Kelly

Hi Kelly,

1). Usually people from other countries want to come to Canada to live better.  There are people who would kill to get their immigration papers for Canada.
Why would you go from a place everybody wants to enter?

2). I see hordes of Americans leaving USA to settle abroad.  Many of them come here to the Caribbean to irritate us with their fuss and paranoia.
Why would you leave Canada which did not reach the low desperation level like in USA yet?

3). You can get English teaching jobs in many countries. Why go to Hanoi just because someone could help you get a job?
Did you lose confidence in what you can do alone?
You may have found honey in Hanoi but why does he not come to Canada instead?

4). Why would you start from square one with learning a chirpy language in a 3rd world country when you are supposed to hurry up and make use of what you already know to the maximum?

5), You may re-think your Internet presence (web site) and if you can earn a living off the Net, you can travel anywhere and back at anytime.

You may think that I am advising you to stay home and wonder why I did not stay home myself.
Well, I lived for 38 years behind the Iron Curtain, and I left my home country as fast as I could when leaving was possible because I was much too bitter about everything. Yes, logic would have dictated for me to stay when the tide of freedom, democracy and capitalism entered Romania, but I have no better explanation other than the belief that the hand of Destiny pointed me to the west.

Feel free to go anywhere you want, anytime and anyhow.
If you fulfill your heart’s desire there is a chance you will meet your fate.  Staying in one place can never be called ‘meeting your fate’, or can it? 

John C. wrote:

2). I see hordes of Americans leaving USA to settle abroad.  Many of them come here to the Caribbean to irritate us with their fuss and paranoia.
Why would you leave Canada which did not reach the low desperation level like in USA yet?
/

I think Nostradamus foresaw that..

Vietnam is not for the feint of heart.  It can be a difficult place to live.  Some of us take to it like a fish to water, while others struggle.  If it was easy, everyone would be here! 

The lack of a BA is going to cause problems.  You need a solid teaching certificate, like a Trinity TESOL, or a Cambridge CELTA to counter that.  I'm not a big fan of either, but both are held in a high regard, and are by no means easy to earn.  There's only one CELTA, but a whole slew of TESOL providers.  Some are good, some are not worth the paper they're printed on. 

Coventry House, in Toronto, offers the Trinity TESOL

If you choose to pursue a CELTA in Vietnam, go with any provider EXCEPT Apollo.  Language Link is probably the lesser of the evils.  The Trinity TESOL isn't available anywhere in the country.

I've noticed a downturn this year, post-Tet.  Hanoi is usually over-flowing with job vacancies, but not now.  If you make the leap, make sure to pack a parachute.

Teacher Mark wrote:

John C. wrote:

2). I see hordes of Americans leaving USA to settle abroad.  Many of them come here to the Caribbean to irritate us with their fuss and paranoia.
Why would you leave Canada which did not reach the low desperation level like in USA yet?
/

I think Nostradamus foresaw that..

Vietnam is not for the feint of heart.  It can be a difficult place to live.  Some of us take to it like a fish to water, while others struggle.  If it was easy, everyone would be here! 

The lack of a BA is going to cause problems.  You need a solid teaching certificate, like a Trinity TESOL, or a Cambridge CELTA to counter that.  I'm not a big fan of either, but both are held in a high regard, and are by no means easy to earn.  There's only one CELTA, but a whole slew of TESOL providers.  Some are good, some are not worth the paper they're printed on. 

Coventry House, in Toronto, offers the Trinity TESOL

If you choose to pursue a CELTA in Vietnam, go with any provider EXCEPT Apollo.  Language Link is probably the lesser of the evils.  The Trinity TESOL isn't available anywhere in the country.

I've noticed a downturn this year, post-Tet.  Hanoi is usually over-flowing with job vacancies, but not now.  If you make the leap, make sure to pack a parachute.

Hi there,

1). Nostradamus foresaw many things but contemporaries do not know how to read him.
Did you notice that is easier to predict something negative than positive?

2). I liked the advice of packing a parachute.

3). If Hanoi overflew with job vacancies, it is normal for the pulse to slow down.

4). I suggest to Kelly to take a look / see trip and just apply casually while in Hanoi.  If employment follows, then her idea to move to Vietnam will have proved to work, if not she will return home and it was just a vacation trip. 

Hi my friend,

I do not understand your think because if you want to explore opportunities overseas, why you do not come to Vietnam? In the future, you will come back to Canada, wont you???

I am sure that, you will find the different bettwen Vietnam and other countries.

Rgds

kelly0226 wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I currently live in Toronto Canada.  Life has taken me in a direction of exploring opportunities overseas.  I have a connection in Hanoi who suggested I come over and teach English.

I would love to hear experiences from other expats?  I went to college and have a diploma, but not a BA from University, does anyone know if that will hinder me in finding work teaching in Hanoi?  My friend says no, but I would love to hear experiences from others.

To stay or to go, that is where I am at, I would love to hear about others going to Hanoi from countries like Canada, US, Australia, Europe etc...  How you settled, was it a big culture shock?  Did you or do you still miss the comforts of home?  Did you find it easy to meet people?  These are all things that keep me up at night

I look forward to connecting!

Kelly

Well Kelly,
First of all,there's no fear of ice falling off a building and killing you.
The coldest day won't snow.
At 5pm on a friday,you can look at the sun directly and have no concern over eye damage.

An Aussie fell off the Sheraton, in TpHCM the other day. My final words would be..."It's 21 stories; not 20!" "The ground floor is actually the first floo...."        RIP

Anyone have some of the great positives about Hanoi to share too?  I would love to hear what people love as well.

Thank you,

Kelly

Hi Kelly.
Sorry to interfere in this discussion.
I'm just shocked about some of the comments I just read!
It seems some expat don't understand they live in a country with a different culture, a different way of life, a different everything.
Such differences can be tough to apprehend and understand, this is totally understandable.
Instead of saying "it's awful", "don't go there" and so on, may be "this way of life does not match mine" would have been better. Also, when you feel bad in one place, try another place, you will be much more comfortable! :-)
Back to your first question, I plan to move to VN too, but HCMC. If I can give you an advise, go there for a couple of weeks and try by yourself, if you can afford this. Even though you'll have just a small overview of what life can be, you will have your own opinion and can decide what's the best for you. That's what I've done and now I plan moving there.
But be prepared for an extreme and radical change of your way of living!! Don't expect to live the same way than in Canada!

PS. Sorry for my poor english!!! ;-)

Hi Kelly,
First of all, you have read about 2 Vietnamese wars.

From here, it is a reason to build my Vietnamese now aday. We are friendly, like to make friend, help people...specially Hanoier.

Rgds

Mr Hung wrote:

Hi Kelly,
First of all, you have read about 2 Vietnamese wars.

From here, it is a reason to build my Vietnamese now aday. We are friendly, like to make friend, help people...specially Hanoier.

Rgds

Hi Kelly,
Just in case you didn't know; the Man's name "Hung" is pronounced like the English word "home".

Alex82Alex wrote:

Hi Kelly.
Sorry to interfere in this discussion.
I'm just shocked about some of the comments I just read!
It seems some expat don't understand they live in a country with a different culture, a different way of life, a different everything.
Such differences can be tough to apprehend and understand, this is totally understandable.
Instead of saying "it's awful", "don't go there" and so on, may be "this way of life does not match mine" would have been better. Also, when you feel bad in one place, try another place, you will be much more comfortable! :-)

Shock! Horror!
People are actually posting honest feelings.
They really should follow the moralistic,non biased,anti defamatory speech that is globally rehearsed.

jimbream wrote:

Shock! Horror!
People are actually posting honest feelings.
They really should follow the moralistic,non biased,anti defamatory speech that is globally rehearsed.

You didn't got my mind, but for sure it's because of my bad english.

It's always good that everyone gives his opinion.
What I don't appreciate is the way of expressing these opinions.
If you don't like spinach, just say "I don't like spinach" and not "spinach is disgusting".
Got the difference?

Alex82Alex wrote:

jimbream wrote:

Shock! Horror!
People are actually posting honest feelings.
They really should follow the moralistic,non biased,anti defamatory speech that is globally rehearsed.

You didn't got my mind, but for sure it's because of my bad english.

It's always good that everyone gives his opinion.
What I don't appreciate is the way of expressing these opinions.
If you don't like spinach, just say "I don't like spinach" and not "spinach is disgusting".
Got the difference?

Your English is fine.Your comprehension is fine too.
My only comment for you is that not all people speak the same way.
The OP wants to read pleasant,comforting and encouraging comments in order to make her feel good about her own choice to move to Ha Noi.
If posters don't give her an unbiased realistic personal view of Ha Noi,
how is she to feel if all the sweet,kind and supportive comments she read turned out to be not quite the reality?

Thank you for your precisions and for your comments about my english!! :-)
I understand what you say and I do agree for most part anyway.
When I went to VN for vacations, there were many things I dislike, many things I liked.
I just had a quick overview of VN, and it seems to me it's too complex (at least for me) to explain it. Self experience is to my point of view the best way to discover VN.
All I can do eventually is listing the like/dislike of what I saw.
But what I like, maybe the OP don't like, and vice versa.
In any case I will never have a value judgment of anything by saying "this is bad" or "this is good".
But as you say, everyone speaks in a different way. I just have some strong difficulties with some post that give supposed universal opinions.
Well, I do hope all the above is correctly written and understandable!!! :-)
Thank you anyway to exchange your point of view, that was constructive.

Alex82Alex wrote:

Thank you for your precisions and for your comments about my english!! :-)
I understand what you say and I do agree for most part anyway.
When I went to VN for vacations, there were many things I dislike, many things I liked.
I just had a quick overview of VN, and it seems to me it's too complex (at least for me) to explain it. Self experience is to my point of view the best way to discover VN.
All I can do eventually is listing the like/dislike of what I saw.
But what I like, maybe the OP don't like, and vice versa.
In any case I will never have a value judgment of anything by saying "this is bad" or "this is good".
But as you say, everyone speaks in a different way. I just have some strong difficulties with some post that give supposed universal opinions.
Well, I do hope all the above is correctly written and understandable!!! :-)
Thank you anyway to exchange your point of view, that was constructive.

No trouble at all.
Perhaps the OP could just jump straight into Viet Nam.
That way she could learn and experience the good and the bad from her own perspective.

(Moderated: Off topic)

may i ask why you want to relocate to Vietnam?   was it an arbitary choice?   or was it personal?   VN is a developing country and many modern amenities are not widely available.   as with most things there are positives and negatives.   nice people, incredible food,  and exotic destinations are some of the things i love about VN.   ill let the others list the negatives since there are too numerous to list. 

good luck to you

kelly0226 wrote:

Anyone have some of the great positives about Hanoi to share too?  I would love to hear what people love as well.

Thank you,

Kelly

Hi Kelly,
If great positives about Hanoi are hard to land in your thread here, do you think asking for them will make them show up? 

So far, you've got more bad news than good. 

To be honest Hanoi wasn't even on my radar.  A friend had told me about a good friend who had moved to Hanoi from Australia, loved living there was doing very well for himself.
When I started thinking about a big move, it prompted me to connect with his friend and start learning about Hanoi.  It started as a thought and now I feel really drawn to making the move.

With regards to the negative comments, I welcome all comments but wish they were a little more constructive.  There is good and bad everywhere and it's good to know all sides but in a more constructive manner would be nice. 

I am really looking to experience a new culture and way of living.  I think I have gotten into a bit of a rut here in Toronto so perhaps its now time for a totally new experience!  We shall see what the future holds...

Kelly

Hi Kelly.

I spend 2 weeks for vacation in HCMC in february 2013. It seems it's a bit different from Hanoï, so may be things may be slightly different.
Even though 2 weeks are really short, here is my opinion.

What I didn't like :
- Noise!!! There's always huge traffic and horns at any time! Hopefully my hotel was not on a main street.
- Traffic is really hard do deal with. The way of driving is really uncommon!!! Even though rules are quite the same as in Europe or Canada, it's not the same story on the road! As far as I understood, you just have to look in front of you, that's all! And you honk, whatever happens, you honk! Every 2 seconds, you honk! If nothing happens, you honk just to say you're there!
- Dirty streets. To give you one example. There're many restaurants just next to the road, and you can have diner on the walkway. Instead of leaving what you don't eat in your plate, you can just through all this on the road... Here, it's a common practice... At least as I saw! I tried to go mainly in typical streets.
- Surveillance. Even though it was not such a big deal for me during vacations, I was told and saw by myself that corruption is there at any stage. Call that a little "contribution" to have no problem. For example, you need to register at the police station of your neighborhood when you have a flat. If you want someone (familly, bf or gf, or anyone) to stay for the night at your home, you have to register them at police station... If you need a permit of something, a little "contribution" helps things to go smoothly and quickly, unless you don't care waiting for weeks...
- Driving license. Well, for sure, it's not the worst thing!!! I'm a biker, and no license from any country is recognized. You need to have a VN license to drive. With a car driving license, you can drive a car, of course, and less than 170cm3 bike. It seems quite impossible to have a A2 license (big bikes). Also, don't think in having a car. I really wonder how you could drive with 90% scooters on the road!

What I liked :
- Food!! This is probably what I enjoyed the most. Incredible tastes, completely unknowns plants and spices, very healthy. Amazing, really amazing!!!
- The city (this applies to HCMC of course..) Many great things and monuments to visit despite the traffic.
- The weather! I went in February, sunny every day, really hot, all what I like! Rainy season seems not to be as nice. Rain every day but hot anyway.
- The people. First contact is quite strange, but as soon as you try to communicate with them (try to learn a couple of words in vietnamese, this helps a lot!!!), I found the vietnamese really curious and happy to talk with you. I had memorable times trying to understand and being understood!!! Vietnamese are really nice people, as long as you remember YOU are in THEIR country! But I guess it's the same in every country...
- The nature. You need to drive a little, but as soon as you go out the city, you can find incredible places. North seems to be even more nicer than south thanks to the mountains.
- The cost of life. You can easily live with about 1200$ per month, as soon as you try to adopt some of the vietnamese way of live. Of course, if you want to live in an expat district, eat Canadian food and so on, you will need much more. But a 2BR flat is around 400$ for a quite nice one, if you eat street food or ine typical vietnamese restaurant, you will pay only 2 to 4$ (but you can find 30$ international restaurant if you want!). Also, don't bring any of your clothing and furniture. It's so cheap in VN!! Shirt is about 1 to 2$! Custom hand made 100% wood furniture can be done at a really reasonable price, much less than it would cost to move the one you already have from Canada.
Also, I said it could be a bad idea to have a car, but if you need, you can ask for a driver with its car, and it will cost you a just couple of dollars a day.

I hope this will help, this is only my viewing! But remember I was in HCMC and not Hanoï!

Thank you Alex82Alex that was a great summery!  I really appreciate your taking the time and giving such a great look at both sides.  I guess Hanoi is a little different but I am sure very similar in a lot of ways.
I guess I have some decision making to do

When you comment any experiences, you need to be specific . I agree that each people have their own experience and opion about a country but you guys should give more evidence for your justice .

I prefer the way Alex explain and write a summary about his experiences , what he likes, dislikes about Vietnam and reasons . Sorry John , but you only comment too generally about your experience without explanation and may make people who don't know feel terrible and bad about Vietnam .

No one want to move to worse place for living but it worth to try . Maybe you will find something you love in a new place . I also used to study in Taiwan for 2 years . That country have more modern and comforts than Vietnam very much but something they do not have as in Vietnam . Let's go to explore it .

hi kelly
I am a student at university of civil engineering in Viet Nam, living in Ha Noi.  There are three reasons that will pobably interest you.
first of all.   VietNam  is a developing country, English is a significant language for development of my country.
Many student as me is managing to learn English and English centres is booming from the biggest cites to the remotest cities. If you want to get job of teaching English in Viet Nam, That will be easy.
Secondly,  expense of living in HaNoi is not expensive compare to other big city. If you would like to explore , you can travel everywhere you want in Viet Nam with your salary by teaching English
Thirdly, VietNam has a lot of beautiful spot and VietNamese is very friendly, easy-going.............like me
so all is your decision
for me, to be honest, I really want to travel oversea, study oversea to expand my knowledge , but If someone asked me : Do you want to leave your country in order to live in other better country?, I would be sure that the answer is " NO" .

Hi

I am Tu, I have worked with many expat so I can deal with issues you may experiece in Hanoi
When you come to Hanoi. Contact me, I think I can help alot

Best

I do believe wrote:

Don't do it Kelly! I have been here in Saigon for 7 years and been to most places in Vietnam. Hanoi is colder than Canada figuratively speaking because houses and hotels don't have central heat. The language is a huge problem and women are considered disposable. Vietnam has thousands of hotels that advertise hourly rates. Hmmm...  I'm Canadian from St. Catharines, Ontario and I say again; don't do it. This place is a living hell.

Hi Kelly,

I was just trying to discourage you as I really enjoy Vietnam and its people. Advantages; there are a few, disadvantages; there are a few. My cousin was here and she said she couldn't live in a place like this but I can't see myself anywhere else, just come with a few words in Vietnamese and try it. You will probably know within five minutes if you will like it here. If not you can always go back to where it's safe.

By the way; I suggest you refuse offers of help from Vietnamese online; unfortunately words don't allow you to know the difference between a scamer and a genuine person. You - being a "rich, innocent" Westerner become a target for every con under the sun.

Hello Everyone,

After lots of back and forth a decision has been made!   I am...coming to Hanoi!!  I have already started selling off all of my worldy possessions to embark on a new adventure!  I leave the end of May and can't wait to start my new life in Hanoi.

Thank you to everyone who responded to my post.  I have taken all into consideration and can't wait to keep you posted on my journey.

Thanks again!

Kelly

Hi Kelly. Although I don't live in Vietnam I have got to say that I think you have made the best ever decision despite what some others here are saying. Hanoi is a really beautiful city and Vietnam itself is very wonderful. I have spent over 30 years living around Asia and I just do not want to return to England, although knowing that I could at any time is nice to know. I am not an English teacher, but many of the better English Language schools do ask for a Tefl certificate of some sorts, although perhaps in Vietnam it is not required. The Certificate takes only one month to complete and would put you in a great position to get a teaching job in other countries should you ever wish to move there, such as Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand etc. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I fully agree with your decision and am sure you will have a very exciting and adventurous stay in Hanoi.

Hi Mike,

Thanks so much, I appreciate the encouraging words!  It's was a big decision but I know in my heart it is the right one.  It is time to break out of my comfort zone and go and explore the world!

Thanks again, please keep in touch!

Kelly

That's a great decision. The way I see it is that we only live once, so better go out and find adventure in our lives. And the good thing about English teaching is that if you ever get bored with Vietnam then you can move to other countries in Asia. Good luck!