Better to do business- Panama or Ecuador?

mugtech wrote:

It does say a lot about the 21st century if the digital currency really is designed to help the poor who cannot afford a bank account by allowing them to use their cell phone instead.  Does the purchase and monthly use of a cell phone cost less than a bank account?  Even if one is charged a $10/month fee for banking in the USA, a cell phone is much more expensive.  What about in EC?

Electronics including cellphones are more expensive in EC than USA.  However, a simple "celu" can be purchased for under $50, and there are reports that refurbished phones can be gotten for half of that amount. 

Folks in Ecuador are more likely than in the US to buy cell minutes rather than commit to a fancy calling plan.   Here in Quito there are a basillion tiendas where you can buy "pocos minutos" or as much as you would want.  Pop in, tell 'em how much you want, and it's loaded into the phone in seconds.

cccmedia, Quito

cccmedia wrote:

mugtech wrote:

It does say a lot about the 21st century if the digital currency really is designed to help the poor who cannot afford a bank account by allowing them to use their cell phone instead.  Does the purchase and monthly use of a cell phone cost less than a bank account?  Even if one is charged a $10/month fee for banking in the USA, a cell phone is much more expensive.  What about in EC?

Electronics including cellphones are more expensive in EC than USA.  However, a simple "celu" can be purchased for under $50, and there are reports that refurbished phones can be gotten for half of that amount. 

Folks in Ecuador are more likely than in the US to buy cell minutes rather than commit to a fancy calling plan.   Here in Quito there are a basillion tiendas where you can buy "pocos minutos" or as much as you would want.  Pop in, tell 'em how much you want, and it's loaded into the phone in seconds.

cccmedia, Quito

The question remains, how much does it cost to have a bank account vs buying a phone and monthly minutes to do your banking?

mugtech wrote:

The question remains, how much does it cost to have a bank account vs buying a phone and monthly minutes to do your banking?

We are certain that the highly intelligent and well-regarded Mugtech realises that there are so many variables as to make answering this question properly, problematic.

For instance, new or used phone, amount kept in bank account, how many minutes or what calling plan the customer uses, and fees that may vary among banks.

Perhaps we can just stipulate that it feels somehow ironic that they're introducing a precedent-setting currency so the 40 percent without bank accounts can transact their business on cellphones.

cccmedia, Quito

Little confused. This digital currency is going to more or less be pegged to the dollar right? Is the plan to eventually allow everyone the option to have a digital account, and use it? If so are you going to have the option to use both this currency, and the dollar based on preference, and what is more convenient at any given time. It's not really a bad idea, but seems like there is a ton of possible flaws, not to mention potential security problems (though guess that would constitute a flaw). Is this initial group who will have access basically the beta test group?

Am not trying to be dense, but there seems to be more questions than answers.

cccmedia wrote:

For instance, new or used phone, amount kept in bank account, how many minutes or what calling plan the customer uses, and fees that may vary among banks.

Perhaps we can just stipulate that it feels somehow ironic that they're introducing a precedent-setting currency so the 40 percent without bank accounts can transact their business on cellphones.

cccmedia, Quito

Let's take the most popular banks and state what the monthly service charge is for a low balance account.  Are there any other transactional fees for deposits or withdrawals?  Perhaps this will give us a start.  i am looking at this as being more costly for the poor, not less, plus other problems as presented by the gentleman from Baltimore.

j600rr wrote:

Little confused. This digital currency is going to more or less be pegged to the dollar right? Is the plan to eventually allow everyone the option to have a digital account, and use it? If so are you going to have the option to use both this currency, and the dollar based on preference...Is this initial group who will have access basically the beta test group?

Am not trying to be dense, but there seems to be more questions than answers.

Yes, pegged to the dollar.

Use of the new currency will be voluntary so the "beta test group" may be self-selected.

The Morning Post article said Ecuador was not releasing "technical details" of the currency, so the government (perhaps prudently) may see how the launch goes and improvise from there.

The article said that Ecuador not only authorised the new currency, but also outlawed "stateless crypto-currencies" such as bitcoin.

J600 and Mugtech, have either of you ever tried to spend a stateless crypto-currency...

cccmedia, Quito

cccmedia wrote:

The article said that Ecuador not only authorised the new currency, but also outlawed "stateless crypto-currencies" such as bitcoin.

J600 and Mugtech, have either of you ever tried to spend a stateless crypto-currency...

cccmedia, Quito

Don't believe in currency speculation, would rather invest in stocks and bonds.
I do my searching on line, but then I do actual transactions in person or with trusted representatives, such as my personal cruise consultant, by phone.  Old rule of investing:  If you do not understand what a company is doing or what the source of revenue is, then do not invest.  Never tried to figure out bitcoin, but it had that "smoke and mirrors" feel from the start, so I passed.

cccmedia wrote:

J600 and Mugtech, have either of you ever tried to spend a stateless crypto-currency...

cccmedia, Quito

The answer would be no. I have a neutral position on the issue. One of the biggest problems I see in any crypto currency is the complete lack of liquidity, and violent swings on a daily basis. Bitcoin for example is probably the most well known, and used to date, and probably the most liquid. With that being said bitcoin still lacks liquidity. What has bitcoin gone from, something like over $1200 to like $350 give or take now in a years time? Plus, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there been days where the price has fluctuated between 15-20%. You just can't have price swings like that. Dollar, Pound, Franc, etc. all fluctuate in price, but nothing at all like the crypto currencies. I mean who would want to buy $1000 bucks worth knowing that an hour later it could be worth $800. Am pretty sure if I put $1000 U.S. dollars in bank account it won't be worth 8 or 900 dollars in a few days, and not worth 3 or 400 bucks a year later. Yeah, will probably lose some value, but nothing like the crypto currencies.

Of course the opposite is true in that the value could go way up on any given day, but I want my currency to remain fairly steady, as it has to be used for multiple things on a daily basis. Don't really want to say, "well better not buy anything today because value has dropped, or better go buy as much as I can today because value has skyrocketed."

Digital currencies may very well be the wave of the future, but unless it's backed by something of value, or perceived value at the beginning can't see it as anything more than something to speculate on.

I remember Bitcoin at $4 about two years ago. Then it went up to over $1,000 about a year later and now it's about $300.

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot barge pole.

If you can't see it touch it or smell it what use is it ?????

gardener1 wrote:

I remember Bitcoin at $4 about two years ago. Then it went up to over $1,000 about a year later and now it's about $300.

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot barge pole.

Thanks gardener. Must admit I don't follow it that close, but thought the price movement was something like that. Guess if you bought at $4 you are still in pretty good shape, or if you shorted (want price to fall) at $1000 you are pretty happy.

As much as everyone likes to knock the fiat currency system, and must admit am not a huge fan myself of that system. Nevertheless the main currencies (Dollar, Euro, Pound, Franc) the price has always remained pretty stable. Yes, ups and downs, and any fiat currency will always lose value over time, but buying a little gold, and silver is a very easy hedge to help offset that.

If we look at Black Wednesday of 1992 for the Pound it only dropped 9.5%, and should not say only, because that day is still talked about, and for one of the world's accepted currencies that was a huge move. Now, how many times during the last year has bitcoin moved at least that amount on any given day? It's just not acceptable price movement for a currency if it's something that you want to use on a consistent daily basis.

I'll tell you what though, if the Swiss vote yes to require gold backing their currency in the national election on November 30, I'll be turning some of my dollars into Swiss fancs and stuffing them into a shoebox.

This talk of crypto and digital currencies has reminded me of E-Gold. Anyone remember that? Guess it wasn't technically a digital or crypto currency, but always thought that was a solid idea, and they had a really good run for awhile. Probably a bit ahead of it's time, and had major security issues. Plus got a bit of a raw deal from U.S. Government, which was a shame.

bekerst wrote:

Hi  I have  been  thinking where  is better  to go if Panama or  Ecuador  do you have any  information  on Panama  or anybody   up there?   I will  appreciated.

It's not so much about "better", but "different". Anyone wanting to could make either one work. It's hard to gauge because the are also fluid dynamics. For example, the business trend in Ecuador is increasingly more positive, while I see the Panama trend as headed the other way. Salaries are higher in Panama, so is your business employee intensive?  You know, issues like that. Dozens and dozens. Hard to say, here is your clear cut "winner".

I don't believe they were  ever on topic.

cccmedia wrote:

Electronics including cellphones are more expensive in EC than USA.  However, a simple "celu" can be purchased for under $50, and there are reports that refurbished phones can be gotten for half of that amount.

Just a day or so after posting the above, I actually went shopping for a replacement (new) cellphone here in Quito.

The price was lower than I indicated above.  I bought it for about $35 plus tax.

To tell those who are interested in how they can duplicate this feat, I now direct you away from this Panama vs. Ecuador thread to the new thread about "Cellphone News From the Capital."

There's also a post over there about my encounter with the cellphone "golfillo callejero" on the Ecovia bus line.

cccmedia, Quito

Businesses are all different , if you have been in business, you know that.   I guess you have to do your own due diligence and check the laws in  both countries as well as visit, talk to business people etc .  Panama and Ecuador are truly apples and oranges, Very different cultures, history, physical climates and business climates.  Panama is called these days the Hub of the Americas -- it is a financial capitol and booming.   
Good Morning:
In Ecuador, my take here in Quito is that many Ecuadorians are entrepreneurial but have poor business skills, and tend to go in and out of business, in many cases.  Their reputation is that those who have skills stay and succeed , like anywhere else.  However, more importantly--  for immigrants like you and me, there is no official encouragement here for business development like in Chile, for example.-- (online business I am not addressing) The health codes are restrictive and  as well as many new employment laws here (hiring people if you need to ).
The govt makes it very hard to get started!
I have savvy friends in business here from the U.S. and they always tell me, stay out of business, any business -- it is simply too challenging in Ecuador!    Check this out by visiting and talking with people -- it may work for you...you have to discover that for yourself.
Suerte, Sue in QUito

Well this is interesting -

Nicaragua's Canal: Digging For Truth

ON DECEMBER 22nd an odd couple —Nicaragua's left-wing government and a Chinese-born telecoms magnate — say they will begin the realisation of a dream that has captivated Nicaraguans for generations: the construction of an inter-oceanic canal to rival Panama's.

The project has been shrouded in secrecy since Nicaragua's National Assembly awarded a 50-year concession to HKND in 2013.

No feasibility study, environmental-impact report, business case or financing plan has yet been released. Instead come platitudes from the Sandinista government of Daniel Ortega about how it will bring a jobs bonanza and end poverty.

Many still doubt it will ever be built. Carlos Fernando Chamorro, editor of an anti-Ortega publication, Confidencial, says the only groundbreaking on December 22nd will be for an access road to a proposed port near Brito, on the Pacific coast, at what is expected to be one entrance to the canal. Some experts think the port, a proposed airport nearby and a free-trade zone may be as far as the canal gets.

Read more:
http://www.businessinsider.com/nicaragu … th-2014-12

gardener1 wrote:

I'll tell you what though, if the Swiss vote yes to require gold backing their currency in the national election on November 30, I'll be turning some of my dollars into Swiss fancs and stuffing them into a shoebox.

Well the Swiss may have voted nay for that one, but you'd still be sitting pretty it you would have bought some francs. The SNB has finally decided to abandon the franc's cap against the Euro.
Oh well, is why they say hindsight is 20/20.

mugtech wrote:

BobH wrote:

I have a hard time seeing how a transcontinental railroad would be equivalent to a canal. The US built the Panama Canal despite having had such a railroad for thirty-plus years prior.

However, Nicaragua is (once again) planning to build a canal that would compete with Panama's. There is considerable skepticism about it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-2 … nding.html

It does appear that there is a great amount of doubt about the success and who will pay for the huge project.
The Chinaman in charge won't even say where he went to school, claims he is just an average Chinese person.  Average Chinese are not holders of stock worth billions.  So we are not at all transparent from the start.  The canal would be 178 miles long, and the locks in Panama allow the ships to move at about 5 miles per hour.  At that rate it would take a ship 35 hours to get through the canal.  At what cost?  Right now a 77,000 ton cruise ship pays about $4 million to get through the Panama Canal?  Why would anyone pay more to go through a longer canal?  The real question here is, if this canal ever gets off the ground,  who will ultimately be burdened with the debt?

Seems that a lot of people are working on alternative solutions to Panama Canal: http://www.cdca.it/spip.php?article1689&lang=it