Mistakes expats make in Hungary

One big mistake is trying to make Hungary into your old home country.
Hungarians have been doing fine for over 1,000 years doing it their way, don't try to buck the system, never say well in So and So we do it this way.
Never insult Hungarians by saying we do it better at home.
Seriously I doubt anyone begged us to move here in the first place.
( I actually was asked / forced is a strong word, to move here but it's not about me)
Just imagine how you would react if a stranger moved to your home country and started complaining about everything and comparing it to their home country, not cool.
In other words, take it or leave it.

Communication is the key. Many younger Hungarians develop a more westernised view on life. And I have got a mainly Western outlook on life so that suits me.
All societies change over time and the media is very influential. My main bugbear has been trusting workmen too much in the past. I now watch them like a hawk. Hungarians do seem to have more of an inclination to patch up and make do regarding household repairs and that could become highly fashionable in the future.

I don't recommend living here. Once my business is a bit bigger, I will apply for Austrian residency and go back to the civilized world. Bigotry and prejudice abound here. There is massive corruption. The EU is well aware, but is hamstrung by unanimity rules and political infighting from taking decisive action. Hungary today is closer to Russia, a country without rule of law, than a Western society.

My main mistake was moving to Hungary! I knew that not many people spoke English but thought I would be able to learn Hungarian. I had hoped there might be people who wanted to learn or improve their English and we could help each other. I have no doubt there are such people but I don't get to meet them.

One thing I would do differently if I could turn the clock back concerns my big 3.5 tonne van, which I bought to move my stuff from UK. I let my UK insurance on it lapse because I planned to get it re-registered on Hungarian plates. I even knew of a garage which would do this for me.  I suppose if I had done this as soon as I got residency it may have worked out OK but it has proved to be an absolute nightmare, still not resolved, 5 years down the line. I should have either taken the van back to UK and sold it or taken it back there once a year for an MoT. Such trips could have been self financed because there are always people moving stuff between Hungary and UK.

Don't underestimate how difficult it is!  Having moved away from Hungary, I still remember it as a wonderful place.  But it is extremely difficult to set up your life there.

I was hardly unaware of this beforehand: Hungarian friends told me that I'd find it extremely difficult.  But I thought I'd be able to overcome the difficulties.  Perhaps, in slightly different circumstances, and with more luck, I might have.

1. The language.

Don't believe anyone who tells you that Hungarian is impossible to learn.  Just like any other language, if you put the effort in, you can learn it (and it's a wonderful language).  However, there is a huge gap between the level you get to in Hungarian (which you should congratulate yourself on) and how useful this will be in everyday life.

This applies less to reading written material, or understanding what's going on around you, than to speaking and being able to communicate and negotiate in Hungarian.

In Budapest many people do speak English or German as well.  But by speaking Hungarian, you cross a barrier, and it's extremely difficult to communicate well once you've crossed it.

In my experience it's not at all the case that Hungarians don't like foreigners speaking their language (in fact you can get a lot of compliments about it).  By speaking Hungarian you're not causing offence, or doing something you're not supposed to.

But you are doing something you're not expected to, and which I think Hungarians don't really know how to handle.  In big cities in e.g. the English- or German-speaking world, we're used to hearing foreigners speaking our language, perhaps with a weird accent, with strange mistakes, or using odd turns of phrase.  We're used to figuring out what they're saying, and adapting how we speak in response so that they understand us in turn.

Hungarians don't have this experience at all, simply because almost no foreigners ever learn Hungarian.  Some of the exceptions I've met are people of Hungarian origin who grew up in e.g. Canada, who have at least grown up with some experience of the language from their parents.

So when a conversation in Hungarian doesn't work, it's not just you: it's them who have great difficulty understanding you as well, because they're just as lacking in practice as you are!  Of course they're fluent speakers, but they're not practised in understanding faulty Hungarian, or in simplifying how they speak.  And whereas you might be raring to get more practice speaking Hungarian, a Hungarian is much more likely to be interested in practising their English or German.

Solution
If you want to learn Hungarian, you'll need a lot of support to build your confidence.  You'll need a budget for lessons, and time to devote to practising it in a "safe", non-urgent space: e.g. through a language exchange conversation (rather than when trying to negotiate something important in your life).  If I'd had time and money to do that (rather than abandoning my lessons after 3 months, due to lack of time and money), things might have gone better: I spent over a year studying the language beforehand, but knowing the grammar and some vocab is no substitute for real conversational practice.

Which brings me to....

2. Time and work
Hungarians are underpaid, and many work very long hours.  Sure, the prices of some things are much lower than in Western Europe - but not enough lower to even out the difference.

If you work in Hungary, you'll probably be underpaid for long hours as well, and realise just how expensive it is to live in Hungary when you're getting paid in forints.  This is not some kind of plot against you: it's what everyone is dealing with.  (or, alternatively, you are now becoming Hungarian, in that you're realising that the world is a gigantic plot against you and everyone else  )

It can feel as though nothing makes sense (see (1) Language above); and native Hungarians are much more used to it than you are and know the tricks, contacts and bargains which make life possible (see Language, again).

Moving to Hungary and settling there is a major project in anyone's life: it takes a lot of time and energy.  It's a worthwhile project, if that's what you want to do and you can avoid the pitfalls.  But the energy you need has to be available over and above just getting on with your daily life.

Solution
Be clear about how much effort this move will take, not just before you get there but for a long time afterwards.  If you're determined to put in this effort, great!  But don't let your determination become overwhelmed by the difficulties of everyday life: because you'll need a lot of spare energy to understand how things work, learn the language and so on.
In particular, be very clear (and even distrustful of "good news") about how much you're likely to earn, and how relatively high the cost of living is.  You can't put in the effort you need, and enjoy your life in Hungary, if you're constantly worrying about paying the bills or having any time - especially when you seem to be surrounded by Hungarians who are doing just fine (except that they're probably not - see Language again!).
Note that many jobs in Hungary are advertised with no specified salary.  You're expected to name your price when you meet, and negotiate.  Be ready for this, and don't undersell yourself (which means, of course, having an idea of the cost of living).

3. A place to live
This is going to be your major expense.  25,000Ft a month more or less in rent or kőzös költség may not seem like much when you turn up with your EUR/USD/GBP savings: but it is a lot.
At the time I moved there, there was a drought of rental flats in Budapest (there was a boom in setting up flats for AirBnB instead, which is not affordable long-term: as far as I know this boom has subsided now).
You'll see a lot of rental ads online.  However, it's very difficult to get a viewing with a private landlord unless you can pass as a Hungarian speaker.  This is because (like any landlord) they want to make some kind of relationship with you, to trust you and get an idea of who you are.
Private rental can be a "grey" area, not in the sense that you'll get ripped off (our landlord was lazy about repairs but basically a good guy), but in the sense that landlords can be jumpy about what they're doing, financially.  Probably a lot of this rental income never gets reported to NÁV (the taxman): that's none of my business, but it can make landlords suspicious of foreigners, who don't know "how things work".
One landlady liked us but wouldn't let us move in because we were going to register ourselves as resident there (without the residence card - lakcímkártya - all kind of administrative stuff is impossible).  She was afraid that this registration would get her into trouble (somehow, I didn't press for details) - so of course, we couldn't take the flat.
A lot of flats in Budapest get passed round family members: maybe an aunt inherited a flat, and lets various nephews/nieces live there for little or no rent.  That's the only way many of my colleagues could afford to live and save some money.  As a foreigner you're obviously not part of this network.
Many (adult) people also share not just flats but rooms in a flat, which you may not be prepared to do (I would have been 15-20 years ago, but I'm older now).

Of course there are exceptions to these general difficulties.  If your budget is more at the luxury end, you'll probably find people very willing to make things easy for you in German or English (for a price).  (We were looking in the hotly-contested 110.000 to 150.000Ft/month range).  Students can probably also get help from university housing services, with contacts for landlords who speak more than one language.

Solution
Spend a lot of time researching the housing market - not just by looking online, but by visiting, talking to landlords and agents, and viewing properties.  Things work very differently in this area from what you may be used to in your country.

Agents (ingatlanreferens) often do speak other languages, and their job is to help negotiate the deal.  The one who represented us was very good (the landlady was impossible, so the deal fell through).  Unlike in the UK, the agent's job is done once the contract is signed - your relationship from thereon is with the landlord/landlady.

Hope this is helpful - Good luck!

Thanks. I think that is a very good answer.  Systems in Budapest are different than in the countryside and I find staying in the city far more sociable.
Most incomers I have met mainly come as students or have married Hungarians.
Incomers learn pretty quickly that wages are low and Rents are relatively high and rising. Also a number of landlords don't want to declare their rental earnings so sometimes don't allow people to seek residence at the address. I own my own home so I have not had to face these difficulties.
People with different circumstances, of working age, mainly come with a job or come for the experience. Most of these people tend to move on within two or three years so that is fine.
I am fortunate in that I am semi retired and have a home in the uk and also travel a lot.
Because of the language barrier and the expense of  goods,  services and health care,  I will probably live in the uk more when I reach proper retirement age. But for now I'm very happy in Hungary.

sebT27 wrote:

......But you are doing something you're not expected to, and which I think Hungarians don't really know how to handle.  In big cities in e.g. the English- or German-speaking world, we're used to hearing foreigners speaking our language, perhaps with a weird accent, with strange mistakes, or using odd turns of phrase.  We're used to figuring out what they're saying, and adapting how we speak in response so that they understand us in turn.

Hungarians don't have this experience at all, simply because almost no foreigners ever learn Hungarian.  Some of the exceptions I've met are people of Hungarian origin who grew up in e.g. Canada, who have at least grown up with some experience of the language from their parents.

So when a conversation in Hungarian doesn't work, it's not just you: it's them who have great difficulty understanding you as well, because they're just as lacking in practice as you are!  Of course they're fluent speakers, but they're not practised in understanding faulty Hungarian, or in simplifying how they speak.....

This has certainly been how I found it when I was trying to learn and practice Hungarian but it is interesting that you found the same in the most cosmopolitan part of Hungary. In effect your Hungarian needs to be perfect from day one or they may not even recognise that you are trying to speak their language. I found this very demoralising and it is the main reason I decided to move the short distance to Croatia. I did start to learn German at one stage as even in Zala county quite a few people know a bit of German. German is much easier for English speakers to learn than Hungarian so it might be the answer for some expats.

I find Hungarians are like a deer in headlights when non Hungarians speak to them in Hungarian. As soon as they realise i'm not Hungarian the conversation ends. First minute or two are fine but once I make a pronunciation mistake the conversation either ends or they start speaking their broken secondary school English with me.

If your serious about learning Hungarian you really need to be an arshole to the Hungarians when they try to practice their English with you. Pretend you don't understand, tell them you don't speak German or just look very confused and continue to speak in Hungarian. Asking them nicely to speak to you in Hungarian has not worked for me.

You can be as polite as you like when you reach fluency. Then you can speak whatever language your in the mood to  speak. I was too nice for too long and my Hungarian didn't progress. Now i'm more ruthless and my progress has accelerated.

My own experiences from a few countries is just to try and find any common communication method, different words from different languages even, drawing diagrams and waving your arms about. Surprising how commonly understood hand gestures are.  The message is of course more important than the medium. 

The main thing - even in the most obscure circumstances is to keep smiling and keep a humorous "happy" demeanour.   Hard to be angry with someone who is smiling engaging in a friendly way.

Specifically here, I've got the builders in.  None of them speak English but lo and behold, they were all working in Germany so we can get by even mixing it all up with Hungarian.

What many Expats/Foreigners do not realise is that the older generation of Hungarians do not really speak English. They used to learn and speak Russian when they were growing up. The younger generation who have been taught English, their English is more on a grammar level than communication level.

So if you do practise your Hungarian, even on the younger Hungarian generation, they 1) might think you are just a tourist being polite and trying to speak Hungarian (how would they know you are living in Hungary for example? They are not mind readers) where they in turn try and help you by speaking English. Or 2) they might not like speaking English because they only know it from a grammar level (they do not really practise English with their Hungarian family and friends) and therefore feel nervous about speaking English to an English speaker/native.

In the UK in the 70's and 80's students usually had a choice of learning French, German and/or Spanish as a subject for their final exams, but at that time took the attitude of "Why should I learn one of these languages? I am not going to live and work in that country". How times have changed where language is a key tool to have these days, especially in Europe and job-wise.

HelenLancert wrote:

What many Expats/Foreigners do not realise is that the older generation of Hungarians do not really speak English. They used to learn and speak Russian when they were growing up. The younger generation who have been taught English, their English is more on a grammar level than communication level.

You could say the same about people from Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria etc etc but it is far easier to find people who speak English in any of those other countries. I even had guests from Lithuania who grumbled about how few Hungarians spoke English. English is the language a lot of Europeans learn to speak to each other, as many of the minor languages are not widely understood.

Hungarians always says it's because there language is so different to English. But that is also true for the Finns who in my experience speak wonderful English.

Brian32 wrote:

Hungarians always says it's because there language is so different to English. But that is also true for the Finns who in my experience speak wonderful English.

*say
*their

No, we don't always say that, there are many factors at play (e.g. bad education system, lack of motivation stemming from narrowmindedness, etc.), but I do believe the difference between the two languages and thus the difficulty of learning is the main reason.

English and German are very similar though and plenty of Hungarians can speak German.....

Especially in  the countryside we have difficulty understanding each other across the English and Hungarian devide.
Just a slight mispronounciation of Hungarian is misunderstood. I have UK, Dutch Ukrainian, Russian and Irish friends who speak full Hungarian and even then Hungarians often  still do not understand them. So I have decided life is too short.

My time is better spent improving my French  but that is my personal choice because eventually when I fully retire I will spend more time in Mauritius .  I had hoped that I could settle full time in Hungary but I don't think so now so more and more I am only a visitor here.
In the countryside I am just there to do my garden and live privately with a few local contacts and in Budapest I have English speaking friends.
I help out in an English Language school in Budapest helping Hungarians converse in English  so there is no hope for me conversing in Hungarian.

German and English are similar? In what way? Next you will be saying French and English or French and German are similar.

I do not think, as implied, that even if German and English were similar, that Hungarians would automatically find German easy. A foreign language is exactly that, foreign/alien at first. You need to learn little by little and practise it. If languages were that easy to learn we would all be speaking at least two languages.

atomheart wrote:

Brian32 wrote:

Hungarians always says it's because there language is so different to English. But that is also true for the Finns who in my experience speak wonderful English.

*say
*their

No, we don't always say that, there are many factors at play (e.g. bad education system, lack of motivation stemming from narrowmindedness, etc.), but I do believe the difference between the two languages and thus the difficulty of learning is the main reason.

Woops grammar mistakes. Sorry.
Hungarians love grammar. Hungarians who learn English are always experts on English grammar and grammar terminology. However, if you use any expressions or some everyday slang they have no idea what you are saying.

The main problem is that Hungarians learn written English grammar for years from teachers who can not speak English with no focus on conversational skills. This is doing their English language learning more damage than good. I know people who have graduated from Hungarian universities with degrees in English who struggle to speak and speak with very poor accents etc.

If wages were higher in Hungary schools could hire more native speakers who know how to teach using more modern methods and could teach their students how to speak English more naturally.

HelenLancert wrote:

German and English are similar? In what way? Next you will be saying French and English or French and German are similar.

Yes, I do say that! There is also some Latin thrown in for good measure! Britain has been invaded by Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Normans and the language has evolved accordingly. The Vikings probably had more influence in Scotland than in England.

You are talking about centuries ago when the german invaded, saxon invaded, etc languages were completely different from today's languages. English is apparently one third French, but these are common words such as cream. Other languages have borrowed others words such as television and radio, but the way you are saying it almost implies shakespearean language is the same as today's English. So I would still say German today is nothing like English (not 100% of it anyway!!!!).

I know a Hungarian born and raised man who learned English so well in communist Hungary from his parents  that when he was still on refugee status in the USA in the early 1970's he was hired as a student teacher of English at UCLA where he was taking studies.
He knew English better then most native speakers and hardly even had a Hungarian accent when speaking in English.
My distant aunt still lives in Budapest from what my cousin told me, it's her mother, my auntie was a English teacher in Budapest in then old commie days. My cousin and her husband both are practicing doctors in the field of medical research in the UK. They moved from Hungary to Kent over 24 years ago, met them at a family reunion in Poland where all my relations except the ones over age 80, spoke English.
I was blown away, felt like an idiot around them all.
Can't stereotype people, you may put your foot in it if you do.
Perhaps some of the Hungarians who are not willing to mess around with our broken Hungarian language skills are just too busy to bother.
I understand that, how many times in the US was I forced to listen to someone who didn't speak English at one of my jobs, they had to pay me to put up with it.
Boring, we must sound like  5 year olds to most native speakers, who wants to put up with us? I do not blame any Hungarians at all for not having the time to bother trying to figure out what in the world we are going on about.
I just smile and move on.

HelenLancert wrote:

German and English are similar? In what way? Next you will be saying French and English or French and German are similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_similarity

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I do not blame any Hungarians at all for not having the time to bother trying to figure out what in the world we are going on about.

Maybe the mistake some expats make is assuming Hungarians are interested in spending their time providing free language practice. 

fidobsa wrote:

HelenLancert wrote:

German and English are similar? In what way? Next you will be saying French and English or French and German are similar.

Yes, I do say that! There is also some Latin thrown in for good measure! Britain has been invaded by Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Normans and the language has evolved accordingly. The Vikings probably had more influence in Scotland than in England.

I agree, German and French is massively easier compared to Hungarian. Even Spanish is easier.  Take Romanian,  when I worked there,  I understood about 40% of the written language without any previous exposure to it at all.  It's like a mixture of Latin, French, Spanish and Italian - i.e. romance languages.  And of course, us Brits learn French in school and have adopted many French phrases into English.

If you want "easy" to speak Germanic languages, try Dutch. That's like German without the complexity of the grammar.  I reckon any German speaker can get Dutch to a basic level in about a month.   I learnt Dutch before I learnt German.  It's a great intermediate introduction to Germanic languages.

As for Russian, Mrs Fluffy tells me everyone from the Commie times spoke excellent "Russian" - at least on paper, as this was the way back then.  Most people could hardly string two words together.  It was just a way of satisfying the occupation forces.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you want "easy" to speak Germanic languages, try Dutch. That's like German without the complexity of the grammar.

Dutch sounds like drunken english sailors trying to speak german. 

klsallee wrote:

Maybe the mistake some expats make is assuming Hungarians are interested in spending their time providing free language practice. 

Yes.  It's quite a weird experience trying to speak a foreign language in an everyday transaction (e.g. in a shop).

First, because you're nervous about making yourself understood. 

Also, unless you're insufferably arrogant, which very few people are - barring perhaps a certain famous blogger who claims to speak c.50 languages by exploiting native speakers in just this way - you're perfectly aware that your beginner-level skills are going to just "get in the way" from the point of view of the other person.  The other person is more interested in getting the job done, and perhaps moving on to the next person in the queue (a queue is the worst possible place - there it's best to stick to formulaic phrases, actually just as you would in your native language).  So that adds to the nervousness.

And thirdly, you're nervous about understanding whatever the other person is saying.  Here I constantly came up against something which is partly Hungarian-specific, partly universal.  Hungarian has a lot of different words for everyday things.  They carry different tones and implications.  And you might get any one of them thrown back at you in conversation.

There are many examples, but the only (poor) one I can think of right now is "dohány-ozni/-ozás" (official, on No Smoking signs, no Hungarian would use this word in everyday conversation) vs. "cigizni" (what everyone actually says).  So you dutifully learn your vocab-lists and practise in your lessons - and then the awkward buggers out on the street insist on using the full range of their language - to mean something you could have understood if put differently - rather than the list of words you learned!

I'm sure that applies to many other languages as well.  But I do get a feeling that Hungarians are very proud of their language, and especially of these differences of tone which you can put into speech by choosing the right words.  I'm working hard on German at the moment, and while of course German also has various words with similar meanings but different tones, and Germans are proud of their language, it doesn't feel like something I need to be worrying about at too much at my level, unlike in Hungarian.

This makes me think again about the difference I mentioned between e.g. my experience communicating with foreigners in English or French (where I'm the native/fluent speaker), and the opposite situation in Hungary (where I'm the foreigner).  In English there's a particular, basic level of English that will work anywhere, because so many people speak English.  Their English might be British, US, Canadian, Indian, Australian, or an African pidgin, but they all have a common basic level, which no-one in particular owns.  So if a Pole or a Hungarian turns up and speaks slightly odd English, it's nothing new.

German has this common ground as well.  I was surprised a while ago after a German "Stammtisch" (drink beer, practise German session): afterwards, my girlfriend (who speaks far better than I do) pointed out that the native-speaker German woman we'd been talking to was speaking slightly awkwardly.  This was because her actual native language was Plattdeutsch, but she was (like all Germans) using the common Hochdeutsch to talk to people outside her family/area: and this was cramping her style a bit.

I suspect that Hungarian doesn't have this common basic level, simply because there's never been a need for it.  Or, to put it another way, that everyday Hungarian, as used by the man on the street, is far richer and more complex than everyday English or German, and there isn't an established simple version which two people can fall back onto if communication isn't working.  So communication in Hungarian relies a lot on long experience, and it's very difficult to reproduce this experience through learning.

For exactly that reason these subtleties are not something that someone at my level should worry about - because you can't learn them except by experience.  You just have to carry on speaking and improving (and I agree with someone upthread who said that you have to be quite stubborn - but not impolite - to do this).

The difficulty is that to the Hungarian native speaker, these subtleties do matter.  Perhaps, over and above mistakes in grammar or pronunciation, beginner Hungarian sounds awful to Hungarians in a way that, to me, English spoken by someone just off the plane in the UK doesn't.  That would explain a reaction to my attempts to speak Hungarian I often noticed, which is: completely blank.  It's not necessarily frustration, impatience or anything else (though you can imagine it was, afterwards): it's just blank.

Perhaps the Hungarian simply can't make sense of you as a person, get an idea of your attitude, intentions and so on, because your connotations are all over the place.  And if I'm right, that would be because common Hungarian usage is full of these subtle connotations.

This reaction is very discouraging!  But this may be the reason for it.  It means that over and above the grammar and pronunciation, you have to face the steep and long process of getting experience; and you'll get weird reactions from people until you reach a certain level, which is probably higher than a level which would serve you fine in English or German.  I think the only way to make this easier is to recognise how difficult it is, and get a lot of coaching and support from a teacher: for far longer, before you really "go solo", than I expected.

atomheart wrote:

Dutch sounds like drunken english sailors trying to speak german. 

As opposed to Frisian, which sounds like drunken German sailors trying to speak English.

Who knows really what skill level of speaking their own language some people on the street actually are.
Today my husband  who speaks perfect Hungarian heard two Gypsy women walking past us, he said their grammar was off that they were speaking past tense when they should of been using present tense.
Even in the countryside very intelligent people usually are not found doing everyday sort of day jobs, they keep to themselves if they are writers or some other professional person.
My husband was born and raised in Budapest in the old commie days when everyone was "equal" which was really just a front, everyone still had their own class which they stayed with. Doctors and teachers were not usually best buddies with the plumber just like in any other country.
He often hears so many grammar mistakes done by native Hungarians that he is sure that within another 10 to 20 years not many locals will speak their own language with much skill, not be able to do word twists and turns with the language,just a whole dumbing down of everyone. Anyone who doesn't speak English will be passed over for good jobs, sad sort of, not our concern though, in 10 to 20 years we will be lucky to not be pushing daisies.
Personally we both are slowly "losing it" sometimes he speaks Hungarian to me and English to the neighbor.
Let's not even mention how much the English language has gone done, Ya all! Seems people are into texting and not speaking to each other anyways.

"That would explain a reaction to my attempts to speak Hungarian I often noticed, which is: completely blank."

Yes!

On my occasional visits to Hungary, I've tried to practice the language. Nothing difficult: buying a metro pass, ordering fast food, asking for shoes in my size, getting my room key. Yet from the look on their faces, you'd think I'd just arrived from Mars. All I think is, gee, do I sound that bad? So even though I'm surrounded by opportunties to talk Hungarian, I pretty much just keep my mouth shut. Very disheartening.

And given I'm in the unenviable position of speaking several foreign languages pretty badly, I know the situation in Hungary is peculiar. In other countries you just don't get shut out trying to speak the local language like you do in Hungary.

sebT27 wrote:

atomheart wrote:

Dutch sounds like drunken english sailors trying to speak german. 

As opposed to Frisian, which sounds like drunken German sailors trying to speak English.

....and there are similar or the same words in Frisian to those in Scotland or further south in East Anglia (perhaps unsurprisingly owing to the sea between them).  Well, that's what I was told in my Dutch lessons anyway.

You might also say the Germans sound like they are trying to speak Dutch while chewing on a wasp.

Not meaning to derail the thread onto Dutch/German banter (which I always love because I was born and grew up in Holland).  Have you seen Holland's answer to Trump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc
"German?  It's not even a real language.  It's fake.  It's a fake language".


(The Germans obviously didn't take this lying down - you can find all the Trump videos at everysecondcounts.eu)

It's not easy, the first time I visited HUngary I spoke zero English to anyone other then my husband for 6 weeks.
Had a 2 year old baby with me which any mom knows is hard even when at home in your own turf.
I had no tolerance for getting rude service anywhere when it came to trying to deal with a baby while traveling.
I was young and my baby came first to me before any sort of manners or getting bad treatment.
I was literally throwing money at the WC monitors for a roll of TP in baby care emergency situations, They used to hand you about 2 squares of paper, like what to do with that and a dirty nappy?
People seemed to enjoy "trapping" my son on the tramways even though I was holding his hand for dear life, many wouldn't move a inch to let him off the tram, I had to pull him between legs to get him off.
Not so many cars on the roads back then and the public transportation was always packed.
My husband is not the sort of person to ever show off, we did everything the local way and didn't rent a car on our first trip over.
Believe me, the second visit over we rented a car, it was still communist at that time so we had to get a car in France and drive over into Hungary.
I am sorry, I hardly feel any sympathy these days for anyone who choses to come here, it is super easy these days even if one believes it's so hard, it's not. Back then it was hard to find anyone who would help you out at any price, I really was visiting Mars, couldn't even make a phone call to the west without having to pre register the phone call a day or so ahead of time.

What do you know about Russia?
I came from Moscow and many things looks for me very not transparent.

Alexander Spagin wrote:

What do you know about Russia?
I came from Moscow and many things looks for me very not transparent.

It might be useful to give some examples.

I've noticed the political posters with some comments on Putin.

It's not easy to see what the relationship is between Putin and Orban (or Putin and Trump).

By forever , in austria don't like foreigners...even non europeans.

Tomi HU wrote:

By forever , in austria don't like foreigners...even non europeans.

No they don't but that's somewhat the same as Hungary or at least the Hungary some people want to create.

By forever , in austria don't like foreigners...even non europeans.

I did not want to write here