Newbie seeking information

You seem to be looking at both Thailand and Vanuatu.  The best information I can give you is get busy on Google and read some of the volumes of stuff already posted.

Hello Rob,
You have stated whether you visited Thailand before.
Firstly I think the best thing to do would be to get a multi entry visa and stay in Thailand for about 12 months. Home base yourself where you have easy access to transport, bus,planes, so that you can visit more of Thailand without carrying everything with you.
It also depends on what you are looking for.
It also depends on whether you like the heat or a more moderate climate, a fast life style or a more laid back one.
One of the biggest you need to consider is what you are going to give up, if you decide to move permanently . All the little things that you do, your hobbies, visiting family and friends is no longer possible. Of course can use your computer or smartphone to keep in contact. It is not quite the same.
Also consider why are you doing it, is it for financial reasons, or you just want to try something different.

Consistent with the aforementioned statements, you need to research yourself first. Then you need to look at the why and where. In my case it took me up to two years to answer these questions.

I live in Chiang Mai. I've heard the number one reason for living in Chiang Mai is the cost of living. However, in the past five years there has been no increase in expats who live in Chiang Mai even though expats move into Chiang Mai every month. Obviously that means that just as many people leave as arrive in Chiang Mai. So why would that be? There is a long laundry list of reasons why expats leave Chiang Mai or Thailand whatever their national origin. It can be a delightful heaven or it could be an incredible hell. There is just a multitude of factors involved and all of them involved who and what you are. If you come here to retire as if you are retiring from your nation of origin, think again. This is Thailand, not your home, and they run things their way. That doesn't mean it isn't delightful but if you can't change and make the transition then Thailand is not the place for you. Everything is up to you and not up to anything that anyone can provide on this blog. You need to ask yourself the basic "wh" questions first. 

If you do multiple searches on the web you will find a ton of information, even a club to belong to. Again it can be heaven or hell. One thing for sure if you don't speak Thai or have a trusted friend who speaks Thai then you are going to experience a lot of frustration, to say the least. 

Just some input.

Also ask the Thai embassy or consulate in your country of residence. They can provide you a lot of information.

I'm sorry but I disagree with the above post. The information from the Thai government may not live up to your expectations of the country. There is beauty and complexity. The complexity may be overwhelming.

bill kip wrote:

I'm sorry but I disagree with the above post. The information from the Thai government may not live up to your expectations of the country. There is beauty and complexity. The complexity may be overwhelming.

I got very good information from the Thai consulate in Basel, Switzerland. But I also a service which helps Expats to move to Thailand.

bill kip wrote:

However, in the past five years there has been no increase in expats who live in Chiang Mai even though expats move into Chiang Mai every month. Obviously that means that just as many people leave as arrive in Chiang Mai. So why would that be?

Bill, I'm guessing that a dominant reason is that many people are not ready to live full-time in the tropics. It's hot! And there is also the legendary Chiang Mai pollution.

Ruffian Dick wrote:

Bill, I'm guessing that a dominant reason is that many people are not ready to live full-time in the tropics. It's hot! And there is also the legendary Chiang Mai pollution.

Chiang-Mai is a very nice place - but there is indeed the air pollution, the cold winters and also a  high risk of natural catastrophes. Hua Hin - where I live since 2011 - is a far better place for expats than Chiang-Mai.

The hot-humid climate is not such a problem. You get used to it within 2 years. No I start freezing at temperatures below 25 ºC like many Thais...

While I agree that people come and go, the reasons for such are so varied and the list so long I can’t be bothered to start it.  The reasons have tended to change over time as the kind of person who fancies a move to Thailand has changed with the advent of the internet.  Armchair experts sitting in front of their computer can easily fool themselves or be fooled into believing almost anything. 

I am a dinosaur who believes in boots on the ground and firsthand experience.  If you can’t afford an exploratory trip or two to Thailand and you find it all just so overwhelming and complex, then I might suggest that is a sign you should stay home or look closer to home.

First if it was me, I look at my (Your) money.
Do you meet the requirement for you long stay in Thailand.

If on a Retirement-Extension then 65.000 baht income pr month  or 800.000 baht in the bank, or a Combination of the 2.

If Married-Extension then 40.000 baht income pr month or 400.000 baht in the bank, No Combination for Married-Extension.

If you only nearly meet them, remember exchange rate might go down for you.

All so remember the numbers for Retirement & Married - Extension is old, And it "Might" get higher in the furture, So you might need more money to stay here.

Next look at health insurance, Are you cover here in Thailand ?
If not, Do you have a lot of money for back up if you get sick, Can cost a lot to get serious ill here in Thailand, Special if you only want to use overprice Private Hospitals.

Do you have any "special" diseases, That Need special Care, Then you have to look for a place that meet that.

Other the that, Come to Thailand, travel around to you find a place you like, Stay there for some time before plan to stay for long time.

And Have fun and enjoy live.

Kindly.

Let me add a few things about Chiang Mai.  Yes, the number of expat retirees does seem to be constant now, whereas it was growing until a few years ago.  Traffic and pollution have taken their toll.  But face it, traffic and pollution are problems in many places that are pleasant and affordable places to retire, and the pollution here is mostly restricted to March and April.  And Chiang Mai is most definitely pleasant; Both the Thai people and the expat population are friendly and very accepting of outsiders.  There is a very large selection of living accomodations and an equally large selection of restaurants.  There are a number of clubs.  There are beautiful mountain resorts with scenic treks.  And if you prefer never having to wear a coat, this is the place.

The "perfect" places are often very expensive.  But Chiang Mai can fit almost any budget, from a frugal fifteen hundred US per month (or less), to a lavish four or five thousand US per month.  Which ever end of that spectrum one finds himself, he will have a lifestyle that would cost three to five times as much in the US or Europe.

I would "guess" that one reason for people leaving is because of the transition from the western way to the Thai way.

There's an experiment done in psychology at times. You have your back to a person. You are to fall backwards. The other person is to catch you. But the element of trust arises. Will the other person actually catch you or will you fall? Some people can't fall because they don't trust the situation. There are those who come to Thailand and may not thoroughly trust the situation.

Who thinks what?

One can live in Chaing Mai for $1 k, or 33 k baht, a month and live very well. I bought lunch yesterday, at a very good International buffet, and paid 527 baht, or about $15. If you're spending $1,500 a month then you presumably are a couple.

I get that some people need to be taught how to trust and the falling exercise can help some to deal with that issue.  I on the other hand, think most people need to learn some balance and how to stop falling over all the time, expecting others to pick up the pieces or catch them before they hit the floor too hard.

I am in agreement with Never DT and JimP, when it comes to money.  The government expects you to have 65,000 baht per month to live on and telling people they can live like kings on a third to a half of that does them no favors.  If you eliminate travel, medical, women and purchases like electronics, furniture, phones and cars then some months one can get by on very little but one day that frugal lifestyle will bite you big time.  Drinking from a paper bag on the steps of 7eleven is not a great look and constant worry about making ends meet or qualifying for a visa extension can make life in a foreign country where you don't speak the language much more stressful.

When you're talking about living on a thousand US per month, you are making a number of assumptions, and many Westerners simply would not be able to adjust.  First, you would likely be renting a studio, or as the English say, a bed-sit, and if it had a kitchen, it would not have an oven and perhaps not even a cook top.  You would be eating at least some of your meals at Thai stalls, you would not be traveling, you would not be buying a lot of clothes - maybe none, and you would be hard pressed to have a romantic relationship.  God forbid getting sick, something definitely not in the budget.  Some can do all of that, but most "normal" Americans or Europeans cannot.  So I put the bare minimum expenses at 1,500 US per month, and that would not be a lavish life style.  Having 2,000 US or so, coincidentally the minimum required by the Thai Government, would make the transition much easier, since with that amount you could live in a suburban house comparable to what you might have in the Western world, and you could have a car.

I live in a two bedroom furnished house, about 1,100 sq. ft., that is 15/20 minutes from the down town area and pay 12 k baht ($363) a month. The house has a front yard, patio, carport and a washing machine. My water bill is about 60 baht, my electric is about 900 baht, my telephone is 300/400 baht, and my internet/cable is less then 500 baht a month. I presently own a motor bike and it costs me maybe 150 baht a week for gas. I do enjoy cooking so I go to the wholesale market and buy fresh food to eat. Frequently I buy 2 chicken breasts, without bone or fat for about 60 baht, with vegetables for maybe another 50 baht. It's not unusual for me and my lady friend to go out a few times a week paying anywhere from 400 to 2,200 baht per dinner. With those numbers I can pleasantly live on 30 k baht a month, and have money left over for whatever, even side trips to say Macao or Laos or such.

VF; As usual you missed the target.

12000rent + 60water + 900electric + 400phone + 500internet + 600gas + 100x3 per day x 30 days (9000)home cooked meals + 2000 average per week for dinners (8000)  total 31460 baht.  Looks to me like there is nothing left at the end of the month after living very frugally with no shopping at all.  Clearly you are happy living like that but I would not be, not to mention my lovely wife.

My fixed overhead at the beginning of the month comes in around the same number but then I have thirty days of expenses after that.  Since I have a wife there is two of everything (phones, cars, televisions, computers , etc.) and our wardrobe must cover a variety of occasions and activities.   We spend a lot more on food and travel as well.  We have several animals, a large garden, a pond and three times the living space, so I am quite happy with my missed target.

Non of this is considering startup costs to get settled which can be substantial.  Spreading the cost of land, house and cars over ten years would be a hefty sum even if it were not paid upfront.  As others have pointed out there is a very wide range of lifestyles from frugal to lavish, here in Thailand.  I don’t consider my lifestyle lavish but everything is relative, I guess.

You missed a different target. I won't bother to explain.

I give myself 30 k baht a month, in cash. There are times when I might go over that amount, such as when I have to buy medication. Generally speaking I have no problems at that level. I even make donations of time and money within my budget. But in August I did have a medical hiccup which did cost 150 k baht. But between my investments, different accounts, and my four different incomes (soon to be a fifth) I can live very comfortably. Oh yes, I also maintain a home in the states in an active adult community, which provides significant amenities. If I had a significant other then then I would push the budget up to 45 - 50 k baht a month, as a budget. Oh yes, I do shop almost on a daily basis for odd's and ends, and still keep within my budget. But there are times when I MIGHT need a few k baht to get to the end of the month, but I still stay within 30 k, generally.

I saw a post to you directly. "You used to be an informative guy and now  have become a cranky fart." Is that true?

No, I am not cranky though I have been known to fart from time to time.

I feel you are being unrealistic when you conveniently leave out major parts of your budget, like medical, travel to and from your home and the cost of maintaining that second home.

Things happen I find and when people don’t budget for those unforeseen but inevitable expenses they can end up in trouble so I think they should be included.  For example, this year we had a lightning strike somewhere near our house and some of that power leached into our house taking out two air conditioners and a high end computer.  Those all had to be replaced. 

After ten years in our house we have found it necessary to replace some items as things don’t last forever.  Even cars don’t last forever and need replacing.  Our hiking boots needed replacement recently and those were over 6k each. Cycling apparel is not cheap, either.  New iPhones, TV, refrigerator, car tires, water pump for the pond and a remodeling of the kitchen are just a few of the things which came up this year.

I happen to think it is unfair to those unwitting souls who are contemplating life in Thailand, to feed them a lowball estimation based on a best case scenario of a very frugal existence.  I am sorry you get upset when people disagree with you but that is not my problem.

I relate a whole lot better to the village farang than I do to Bill.  I live in town in a one bedroom condo which I rent, and I live on about 48,000 to 54,000 baht per month.  I eat out often, having Western cuisine far more often than Thai, but never in the super expensive places.  I do some travel, consisting of one trip per year to the States and four or five trips to Thai-style mountain resorts near Chiang Mai.  I do not have a car, I hate motorcyles, so I go from one end of town to the other many times per week, using Uber, Grab, tuk-tuks and songtaos.  My lifestyle is neither lavish nor one of depravity.  I drink wine with dinner every night, maybe an extravagance, but that is my only truly wasteful spending.  I could eliminate wine and save maybe 6,000 baht per month, but as for paring down to 30k, I really see nothing else to eliminate unless I became a bit of a hermit.

I did post the need for emergency money, in particular when it comes something as sudden as medical expenses.

When I posted my 30 k budget, it only referred to my spending in Thailand, with an occasional side trip. No it did not include my trips to the states because that's not included in my Thai budget. And my state side residence is on a different budget.

Whatever, I live very well on 30 k and am not deprived of anything. On Saturday I'm off to an excellent international luncheon buffet, for 800 baht and on Sunday my lady friend and I are going to an excellent dinner buffet for 1,600 baht. I never go to the Four Seasons because I refuse to pay those kind of prices. Oh, this past week I bought lunch for three people for 527 baht. It was at the Grand View Hotel. They even had crepe suzette's, along with flan! Enjoy

Probably one thing that helps my budget is eating Thai food, and not the street vendors food. I know of one area where I can have a nice plate of something Thai and it might cost me 40 baht, or an excellent smoothie for 35 baht. I know a coffee shop that gives me a good view of the moat traffic and a pot of tea is 40 baht. Also 7/11 has these little micro wave dishes for about 30 baht and they are surprisingly good. Across the city there is an amazing array of good to great modest places to eat. But eating western food can make your budget pricey. Having a Thai friend certainly helps. I even have some wine, on the half price night.

Then again there's that one guy who lives on 10 k a month. Now I could not live at that level.

Clearly many factors influence discussions like these.  Age, money, nationality, background, health, interests and length of time in country, all play their part.  Often I find others in the 60s, like me, are way too old for me and that means we look at things very differently.  There are some obvious explanations for this situation but that doesn’t change the general feeling and the way it affects interactions.

Well, we haven't heard from Butch. I'd like to hear what his situation is like, and what Oz gives him to retire on.