New Tourist overstay penalty from 8 Reais to 120 Reais ?!?!

Hello,
i found out the same today. They told me at Policia Federal that it's minimum 100 reals per day and can be anything more than this as well. I dont know who decides this and based on what criteria?
Im leaving tmrw and they charged me 100 p each day i overstayed.

Ive just been to Policia Federal in Salvador airport and they say that the law changed from 8 to 100 reals per day but you dont have to pay the fine - not at departing and not at re-entering Brasil.
It doesnt make sense but they say its true.

Here is the actual law: http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_a … L13445.htm

R$100/day min, max - R$10,000 per overstay

CAPÍTULO IX -

"§ 2o  A multa atribuída por dia de atraso ou por excesso de permanência poderá ser convertida em redução equivalente do período de autorização de estada para o visto de visita, em caso de nova entrada no País.

Art. 108.  O valor das multas tratadas neste Capítulo considerará:

.....

IV - o valor mínimo individualizável de R$ 100,00 (cem reais);

V - o valor mínimo de R$ 100,00 (cem reais) e o máximo de R$ 10.000,00 (dez mil reais) para infrações cometidas por pessoa física;

VI - o valor mínimo de R$ 1.000,00 (mil reais) e o máximo de R$ 1.000.000,00 (um milhão de reais) para infrações cometidas por pessoa jurídica, por ato infracional."

the two sections in bold address both things you heard. fine increased, don't necessarily have to pay it.

Olepistole,

I heard that there has been a change in the law. You can now apply for a student visa after your tourist visa without going home first to your home country. Go ahead and check at the nearest airport Policia Federal´s office.

robal

Thank you all for this info! "don't necessarily have to pay it" - does this just depend on whether they like you?

I'm leaving soon just to pick up my new work visa and come back a month later. I overstayed more than a year, I wonder if they will charge me for all this time by the old or new law?

It will probably be adjusted by old and new law.

Jim

the don't have to pay part, as per what I quoted of the law above, is basically this in English:

The fine may just be taken out of the days you may legally stay on your next visit to the country.  So, if you overstayed 15 days, your next visit would only be 75 days allowed, instead of 90.

At least, that's my understanding but am talking to my attorney in Brasil about this to better understand

Yes, thats what ive been told as well. They deduct the days you overstayed from your 90 days.
But if you overstayed for a year, then i dont know how will they deduct

pretty sure if you severely overstay your visa, they're going to make you pay

Thanks, then I bet they'll make me pay. Since I already reached the limit of ~R$800 / 100 days for R$8 before the law changed, will they make me pay any more than that?

You overstayed he he, for more than a year???? I´m pretty sure they´ll charge you to the hilt with the new law! If it´s 100 per day, 6 months alone would be worth like R$18,000!

Barbaridade tche!

robal

robal wrote:

You overstayed he he, for more than a year????

From what I can gather, the change seems to have been a response to the serious issue of workers overstaying and engaging in illegal work.
The fines seem to have been put in place to make that uneconomical, thus making it a waste of time for people to work illegally.

I could be wrong but it looks a lot like that's the aim.

Fred,

I happen to agree.  A max fine of R$800 makes it worthwhile to stay in Brasil beyond your visa without taking the necessary steps to be legal.  I know I've done it a number of times (however, never earning money in Brazil).

As for the fine, the absolute max, as set forth in the law (linked above) is R$10,000.  This certainly hits the wallet a bit harder than R$800

Please let us know what your lawyer says! I'm curious as to whether this means that you can possibly not pay a fine and instead just have fewer days on your next visit (ie instead of paying 1000 reais fine for 10 days overstay you can just come back the next time with 80 days) or vice versa (ie overstay by 10 days but pay the fine and then get the full 90 days the next time) or if you're potentially subject to both.

I'm also very interested in more information on this subject. My 90 days expires tomorrow. I tried to extend my visa today but because it's a business visa they gave me problems about getting a letter from my company. Long story short I'm now semi retired I came down here last year to train employees to take over my department. I met a woman during my stay and I've now come back as a tourist using a business visa that I received last year. I want to stay till after the new year so approximately 15 days past my 90.

so you either pay R$1500 or next time you come down, they shave 15 days off your 90 day visa. 

Per my attorney, the decision is up to the Federal Police officer you are dealing with at the time. 

Chances are, if you stay a short time and have come to Brazil multiple times, they'll shave time off your next visit.  If you stay for a very long time beyond the time allowed, they'll more than likely fine you.

What would you consider a very long time? My original plan was to stay an extra 30-45 days. But after hearing these new prices I was just going to stay an extra 10-15 days. Hopefully tomorrow goes smoothly if not I might try and risk it and hope they just choose to deduct days off my next visit instead of having to pay a fine.

I've been here going on 2 years past the expiration of my visa... I'd consider that a very long time

Good news for those like me who have been overstaying for a long time, it seems the day counter was reset on the day the law came into force so you may not be charged the complete R$10,000 if you leave soon enough.

I left from Guarulhos airport on Monday (18th December 2017) after staying exactly 2 years (90 days legal, 640 overstay). I got a fine of R$2700. The lady told me that any extra day I'd have stayed would have added R$100. I figure they charged me for 27 days because the new law had been in effect for 27 days by then.

She also told me I'll have to pay it when I return, no matter what visa I'll return on (a work visa in my case).

Wow, that’s a significant amount. I think anyone who is illegal might want to fix their situation immediately. Don’t roll the dice on this.

Well it pays to try a different place if you have one close enough. Yesterday I tried to get my business visa extended at the Federal police at the Viracopos Airport and waited an hour and within 5 minutes of calling me they refused to extend it. Said it was because it was business visa and I came down as a tourist or something along those lines. They also told me about the higher per day penalty for overstaying. I decided to try my luck at the Federal police in the town of Piracicaba, where unannounced to me only allow 15 people a day. I did get there very early but that was mainly to avoid any traffic, when the doors opened at 8am I was number 17 and was told to try again tomorrow. With the help of my Brazilian girlfriend we hung around and pleaded with them and gave them all the paperwork and 3 hours later they came out and handed me back my visa with an extension of 90 days. So I was very lucky and it did pay to try another location.

You got very lucky, congratulations!

Craig,

It sort of depends on what "becoming legal" in Brasil would cost... for me, it is above the US$50k/year range because of having to double pay income taxes in US and Brasil.... so for me, US$3k to overstay for a really long time isn't so bad.

Yeah, I’m just not a law breaker and don’t condone such activities. I believe you should respect the laws of the country and pay the penalties. I’m assuming you are not paying taxes here and avoiding that also. Believe me they break the bank with what they take, but I’m contributing my fair share.

Brazil likes the extra "arrecadação de rendimentos." That´s why they also put cameras on curves to bamboozle everyone and pay the fines! Imagine a father who is barely making enough to support the family; his head full of problems and being unaware of those cameras... That´s more problem for the family man as enforcers gouge deeply into his pockets.

Speaking of the fines the government collects on overstayers, it´s still like a slap on the wrist. They´re doing enforcement or protection of borders like any country does, but they also want the money. Eventually, to the disdain of the unaware, they will attach a lengthy prison process to discourage future encumbrances of the laws.

So, it makes sense to right the wrongs and do the right procedure to stay legally...

robal

I'm working on fixing my legal situation, although even on a tourist visa I still pay taxes on my cars and apartment...

Hopefully by the end of Jan '18 I'll be fully legal.

Hi Guys,

Today I have been to Policia Federal in Viracopos intentionally, to pay my punishment because of my overstaying. I was calculating 8,25 R$ per day and when I received the bill I was shocked. It has been 62 days and the penalty was 6.200 R$. They told me that I m free to leave the country without paying this amount, but next time i will not be able to enter the country. They did not give any deadline for the payment, I do not have money to pay this now, but I am afraid that if I pay later, they may add some extra taxes. I would like to have some opinions. Or has anyone found any solution in order to pay less amount of money.

Baris.

Well I would have done this when you had bought your ticket to leave the country. Nº you will surely have to pay more when you are leaving

I have already bought my ticket. I m going back on 26th jan. As far as I read, police asks you to leave the country in 7 days after you turn in yourself or they catch you. Not to deal with these things at the airport I went to federal office by myself. And I learned that the penalty is 6.200 R$ and I can  leave the country in 60 days not 7. It is written on the paper they made me sign. The point is, I will not be able to pay this money in a shorter term than 10 months. But I m afraid that they will add some more tax or they change the amount etc and ask more than I supposed to pay.

If you can't pay before you leave, you'll have to pay when you come back.  You'll need to make sure to arrive on a weekday, at a time the banks are open, with the document the FP gave you, and the money to pay.  You can't pay the FP directly, but if the banks are open, they'll probably let you go to one in the airport and pay.
If you arrive at night, or on a weekend or holiday,  chances are good that they'll refuse to admit you, and send you back on the next flight to your point of origin

Where is your basis about these?😊
Eventually, to the disdain of the unaware, they will attach a lengthy prison process to discourage future encumbrances of the laws.

hey does anybody out know anyone hiring Americans in Belo Horizonte....?

Please man... I'm desperate out here...

Magallanes,

Look around you! Eventually the long arm of the law will catch up to you. If you are used to it with your compadre Duterte, don´t do it here.

Just go back home if your papers are not in order!

robal

Jail time is unlikely:  Brazil already has a prison overcrowding problem, and doesn't need the bad press that would come from throwing stupid tourists into the slammer.  Far more likely:  refusal of entry, with prohibition of return for X years.  Just my opinion, but a reasonable one.

I´m talking about habitual repeat offenders who are also living permanently in Brazil. How would you discipline these type of people who disrespect border laws? Spank them with a piece of bread?

Laws should have teeth to reckon with. Make an example: like throwing them at those 50 person per cell and you´ll see that the problem will greatly diminish if not disappear completely.

Due to serious defects of the human specie, the legislation of punitive laws is a must
to govern this unruly existence. People complain but punishments are far worse in other countries like China, North Korea or the Middle East. If not hard labor, it could be public execution.

robal

Hi all,

I am replying to this thread since I am in the same boat as you all. I came to brazil on a student visa in August to finish my bachelor here in Brazil by doing an internship as an undergraduate programme. I finished in December and decided to overstay my visa for 70 days to enjoy the summer delights of Brazil. After all, paying 8,28 reais per day isn't much considering the costs of leaving the country and come back on a new tourist visa.

I learned through various sources that the 'multa' for overstaying went from 8,28 reais to 100 reais. I freaked out and went to find out solutions.

I studied the new 'lei do migração' and dicovered the loophole they made:
§ 2o  A multa atribuída por dia de atraso ou por excesso de permanência poderá ser convertida em redução equivalente do período de autorização de estada para o visto de visita, em caso de nova entrada no País.

This means that you don't have to pay a fine if you leave the country and re-enter on another visa (can be a tourist visa extension or, in my case, switching from a student visa to a tourist entrance (a tourist visa is not needed for NL residents)).

I decided to call the Policia Federal in Porto alegre and they confirmed on the phone that this is indeed true and this would be a way to avoid the fine. After that I went to the Policia Federal in Itajaí, the city I live currently, waited for three hours, and got attended by an intern than told me all this is not true and that I have to pay the fine anyways. He said that if he would give me the fine now, and not when I leave on 19th feb, I have 3 days to leave the country. I had the new law printed on paper and shove it under his nose and gave the guy a lecture about his own laws that he was obviously not known with.

He took my passport and the law papers to the back, he came back after a few minutes and apologized that I am indeed right and that I can go the border, leave brazil and re-enter on a tourist visa for 90 days minus the days that I am illegal. That would mean I would get around 44 days of tourist visa, and R$0,00 fine. (I am illegal since 12/12/2017)

Monday I am going the border and try my luck. Keep you guys updated...

Hey MrDutchman,

I have exactly the same thing, but opposite, in a way;

I entered Brazil in August 31st 2017 (from Amsterdam, as I'm also Dutch) on a tourist 90-day visa. I went to the Federal Police today and found out they will charge me 8.300 reais as I'm 83 days over my tourist visa. The officer there told me officially he needs to give me 60 days to pay the "multa" and pause the meter from today but it would be wise to bring an attorney next time and explain you were unaware about the penalty etc. There would be a small chance of not paying or at least less.

For the record, I made an união estável (stable union) with my girlfriend and we were being told that as long as you have that, you can stay for 6 months (was a street copper in Bahia, Salvador who told us that). Policía Federal today at the airport, of course said this was all bull.

For me leaving and just not paying is not an option as I now have a commitment here with a lovely girlfriend, or some here would even say wife, and a great dog. In a way it's my own stupid fault that I just didn't go to the airport sooner and apply for a permanent visa (which I can only apply for when this fine has been settled) or just ask for an extension.

Anyways, do you think I can return back to Amsterdam and go back some days or weeks later on a Student visa? In 2017 I entered brazil 3 times in 2017, 2 for no longer than 30 days per stay. Not sure if that makes a difference though... 
My girlfriends lawyer (Brazilian) says that this trick doesn't work and on whatever visa I re-enter, will be red flagged in their system. I would be only able to re-enter after 2 years as I infringed the law and they will send me back. When you are "illegal" or at least "undocumented" they will not issue another kind of Visa he says... Is that true?


Many thanks,
Nick