Moving to Norway

Hi Stephanie! Which city are you moving to? My husband and I are Americans and have lived in Bergen, Norway for 6 years with our 2 kids (ages 4 and 9). We made the decision to send them to a regular Norwegian school so that they would be better integrated into Norwegian society and I don't regret it. My son has lots of neighborhood friends that he can walk to school with and play with after school - which is important as Norwegian school gets out at the crazy early time of 1:30!! (although you can sign the kids up for the after school program, SFO).

Both the kids and the school have been really great in helping my son with Norwegian. I think the anti-bullying program really works much better here than it does in the US because Norwegians understand what community means and what looking out for each other means. Sometimes the kids correct his Norwegian, but I can honestly say no one has made fun of him. A lot of kids thinks it's cool he comes from America.

The school gives my son - and about 3 other kids who don't get Norwegian at home - a special "Norsk 2" course which helps him with his vocabulary. You can also ask the city for a tutor to instruct your children in English if you want them to keep up with reading/vocabulary in English, but we haven't found this necessary yet. Both of these services are free.

It was a difficult adjustment to move here, but we don't regret it - I think you will be delighted with how safe and family-friendly Norway is! Kids can walk to school ALONE SAFELY!

I have a blog about my Norwegian experiences: www.jenaconti.wordpress.com, but feel free to email me if I can be of help!

Good luck!

Thank you SOOOOO much for your helpful post!  It really helps put my mind at ease! We haven't decided exactly where we will live yet, it kind of depends if I get a job somewhere. My husband's preference is near Oslo since that's were he lived and where his family lives.

As far as schools go, I am looking into working at an international school, in which case I probably would have my kids go to the same international school IF I do get a job at one.  If not, I feel much better about sending them to a local Norwegian school after hearing from you! My children, especially my two boys (7&5) are VERY shy - being Japanese & Norwegian (both very shy culturally) has doomed them to shyness...  I worry about them already being shy and then not understanding/speaking the language - could be difficult.
I have read a LOT about the anti-bullying program in Norway!  I am working on my Ph.D. in educational psychology and my research topic is bullying in schools (maybe why I am so concerned about it).  Almost every article I read cites the Bergen Study/Norwegian anti-bullying program...  Norway has the flagship program for the rest of the world and no other country has been able to produce such positive results!  As you said, and my husband has said as well, its cultural...  Norwegian culture lends itself well to this kind of program - and it HAS to start in the community...  American "culture"/society is not really geared toward this kind of thing!  Americans are also far behind Europe and Australia on bullying research!

As far as the HUGE adjustment with moving, I flutuate between being SOOOO ready and excited for the change and to get away from here and being terrified and thinking of all the conveniences we'll miss here!  When ever we go to our favorite places here I get sentimental, but then I remember that the number of BEAUTIFUL places in Norway FAR out number those here!  The kids can't wait to hang out at our cabin and go hiking, fishing...  I can't wait for them to experience their 1st snow!!!  I'm embarrassed to admit that even though my husband is from Norway and I am from Montana, Minnesota and Michigan - my kids have never been in the snow!!!!

Thank you again for your help and I'm sure we'll be in touch here...  I also plan on checking out your blog!

Steph

Hi again, Steph - I DO miss the conveniences (esp. Target and Whole Foods!) but I try to think of everything about Norway as a trade off: okay, we don't have Target, Whole Foods or Starbucks, but I do have the mountains literally at my back door and can go on a hike any time I want! - which represents a different kind of convenience! And school gets out at 1:30, which is a pain in the butt, but I never have to worry that my children are safe. My husband and I talk a lot about the fact that we worry so much less in Norway about things because Norway is so safe - not just in terms of crime, but also in terms of social assurance (if you lose your job or need lots of health care you will still be ok and not go into debt, for example).

Anyway ... I could go on but will end here! As I said, good luck!

Hi Stephanie.
If crime rate is a main concern then moving to Oslo probably won't be the best solution.
http://africanpress.wordpress.com/2007/ … es-outcry/http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local … 299327.ece
It's an old article but I couldn't find anything more current that describes what you're looking for.  Also, it doesn't describe what standards it uses, such as if petty theft considered a crime or not.  Crime statistics in the US may not consider petty crimes in their statistics.

I don't know your situation but here's many things to consider before making the move which I wish I would have researched before I made the move.  We moved from San Diego 6 months ago.

1.  Last year we had 5 months of snow (we live about 45 minutes outside of Oslo)
2.  When comparing salary rates, don't compare dollars to krones.  You can't say that 400,000 kroners is equivalent to 75,000 dollars.  You have to look at the buying power of your money.  I learned this the hardway.
Here's an example.  In Norway, it takes 10 kroners to buy a hamburger at McDonalds.
In California, it takes $1.09 to buy a hamburger.
So in Norway, at a salary of 400,000 (which is what many engineers make when they graduate from college), you can buy 40 thousand burgers.
Right now because the dollar is weak, 400K kroners is equivalent to about 76K.  So in the states, you could buy 69 thousand burgers.  This is a difference of 42%.
My wife and I equate that 10 krones has the equivalent buying power of 1 dollar.  So if you really want to make a comparison between salaries, I would suggest using 10kroners as your dollar and then you can calculate from there how much money your actually making.  So if you get paid 420K a year, that could be considered to be 42 thousand dollars a year in buying power.
This is important when looking at houses to buy.
This was rather disappointing to me because of the huge salary difference I took when moving over here.  It rocks when you go back to the US as a tourist and buy stuff, but it's challenging when you live here.  In the states, I was able to support both my wife and kids with one salary as an engineer.  Over here, my wife has to work and the kids are in daycare (which is rather affordable).
3.  Consider other locations in the US that have reduced crime rate but are beautiful too.  You may be able to get the best of both worlds by visiting Norway during it's beautiful summers.
4.  Before making the move, consider how your transcripts will transfer over.  Many schools require you to submit to NOKUT which I believe is an agency that determines what your degree equivalence is here and from the threads I've been reading, your teaching credential may not be worth as much as it is in California.  I would strongly recommend getting this checked before you move here in order to determine your equivalent degree status and what salary that results in.  International schools may have different requirements and not all schools use the NOKUT equivalents to determine salary.
5.  The forests are beautiful, the lakes are divine, berries in the summer, fishing, rock climbing etc.  Summers can be short here so take that into account.
6.  When your children come over here, they will undergo what I call, American Detox.  Many stores are typically not open on Sundays or very late (like 24 hour Walmarts).  Prices for things are considerably high, yes, even for Norwegians.
7.  After only being here for 6 months, I have to say that I am not impressed by the Norwegian education system.  This could be my location and I'm sure the schools in bigger cities have more funding but what I've seen and been told by friends does not impress me.  In the US schools are very competitive and there is a push to excel, especially in well off neighborhoods.  From my experience here, it seems to be frowned upon to push your kid to excel, as if there is a concern that you may damage their esteem.  This again could be where we live and it may be different in Oslo.
8.  Norway is not Europe, it is Scandinavia, which has a significantly different mentality than Europe.
9.  Your kids will be safer here.  I don't know if this is just a false sense of security amongst Norwegians but don't be surprised to see young kids wandering around the streets by themselves or walking to school by themselves.  I don't like though I see many kids riding bikes without helmets or skateboarding without some sort of protection.
10.  If you or your husband tend to have an entrepreneurial mindset about you and like to pursue side businesses to make extra income, you'll find that challenging here.
11.  Norway is not a pure socialist country.  It has it's own system called the Nordic Model.  Find out a bit more about it on Wikipedia.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

12.  You need to learn the language to live here, don't let others tell you that just English will do.  Contrary to popular belief, Americans are not given free Norwegian language courses, typically only individuals from disadvantaged countries, refugees etc, get free language classes.

13.  The good things about your kids being older is that they can dress themselves.  Having to put layers and layers of clothes on a two and three year old just to get out the door eats into your time.

14.  There is no law against smoking in public outdoor places, at least that I know of.  My children have been exposed to more second hand smoke in the 6 months they've been here vs. the 3 years we lived in San Diego.  I honestly don't get it, people smoke around their kids and other peoples kids.  It's rather disgusting to see significant amount of trash in the form of cigarette butts littering bus stops and on the side of roads.  I don't get it, wonderful clean air and people smoke.

15.  I don't know what health insurance you will have but you will be disappointed in the health care here.  I am not saying it is bad, it is simply different.  My doctor told me, and I'm not kidding, 'You will be shocked by the differences in health care here'.  Is it bad?  No.  It's just different.  By different I mean that doctors in the states tend to be more proactive in keeping track of things.  When you go in, they check your blood pressure, your height, your weight, basically things that could be indicators of different issues.  My experience here, and I reiterate that I don't live in a very big city, is that things are not checked unless you make mention of them, so don't expect your blood pressure to be checked when you go to the doctor.  Like I said, is it bad?  No, just different.  Also, you do pay a copay as an adult every time you go to the doctor.  In Norwegian dollars, it can range from 25 to 35 dollars each visit.  Dental is not part of the socialized medicine services here.  Psychological services take a long time to get here.

16.  By moving to Norway you will have peace of mind that if you should ever lose your job, you won't have to worry about whether your family is covered medically.  And even losing your job is very hard to do.

17.  The equivalent of Federal taxes in the US are very high in Norway.  In the US, many people pay only 10% in Federal tax.  Here, it can go up to 50% depending on your salary.  Most people I know here pay about 36%.  But note, in the US, you have other things that you have to pay for.  Social Security, Medicare, state tax, use tax (like going to a state park) and health insurance (which is really not optional if you have a family).  These other charges may well exceed 36% of your income.

19.  It is beautiful here.  Yesterday we went to a lake 5 minutes away (okay, so I was disappointed to see so much trash in the forest, we take a garbage bag with us every time go go now), but it was cool to see my kids running on the grass, surrounded by trees and a beautiful sky without the roar of planes overhead or helicopters telling you to watch out for a tall man wearing a white shirt, barefoot and black sweat pants.

20.  You are close to Europe, opening your kids up to a completely different world. 

21.  If you move over here, I suggest you try to move over here towards the beginning of the year, this way you can take advantage of a small but useful foreign worker tax credit which gives you a 10% tax deduction up to 40K kroners per year for the first two years you live here.  This is not a tax credit, it is a deduction which means you won't be taxed on 10% of your income up to 40K krones.  This will apply to your husband too.

22.  If your children decide to stay here, and raise a family, their children will not automatically be American Citizens as they will have had to live in the United States for 5 years before their children where born and 2 of those 5 years have to be after the age of 14.  http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf.  They can qualify for US residency though as a child of an American Citizen and can acquire there American Citizenship that way.  This is the current law and is always subject to change.

These are my opinions from my experience here in the last, 6, oh wait, 7 months.    Good luck.  Oh, and one more thing that really is difficult... No Mexican food. 

You do post a very interesting answer migpics, I agree with most, i would just like to add the following:

1) Crime rate, I think there is indeed a significant difference in definition between countries about crime rate. What is important to remember in Norway is that violent crime is low and is often limited to certain ethnic groups or relating to family disputes. Thefts and other petty crimes, mostly drug related, remain somewhat high but have shown a signifcant decrease in the last year. It is also largely depends where you live. I happen to live on the west side of Oslo and have not seen once indicent or even incivility in 3 years here

2) Winter: the winter season is indeed long but I would say you paint a rather dark picture of it. When the snow is here, there are lots of things to do, especially with the kids. We enjoy a lot this time of the year and go sledging, ice skating, skiing, eating in the forest.

3) The way you describe medical care is accurate in my opinion and is different from many countries I have been in. A private medical system also exists in the Oslo area with similar prices as in the US. Dental is free for kids till they turn 19.

4) I also liked a lot your description of the school system. For Stephanie, there is only one international school in Oslo and it is rather expensive. Many public schools now get an all english program from middle school in the Oslo area.

Hey ANDM,

I agree with you on the crime rates, the definitions are different and I do believe violent crime is significantly lower in Norway but I do not have any statistics to back it upp.

Winter is a great season if you like snow sports and enjoy it.  I do too and as you can see on my blog, I spent many days outside making snow sculptures.  In coming from San Diego and California, you have to understand that we typically have a choice of weather conditions.  If we want snow in the winter, we go to the mountains.  If we want warmth, we stay in the valley by the beaches.  Summer is just hot and then, we stay indoors or in malls .

Stephanie seems like a highly educated person, and that is typically greatly rewarded in the states with high incomes.  I'm quite disappointed here with the salaries for higher educated individuals, engineers, computer scientists etc. and the lack of small businesses here.  I see very little motivation for higher education if salary ranges aren't that different.  If you look at the variety of stores, there's not that many, very little competition. 
Reminds me of Disney's Wall-E with BNL, your one store shopping super center.  But, it is kinda like walmart.

My boss told me, when I came to Norway, 'We are poor in Norway, but rich in other countries.  That is why Norwegians travel a lot.'  And all I could think about was how I would be living in Norway, and not in other countries, and with two kids, don't see myself traveling a lot.'

But we'll see.

A note to Stephanie, it was not my intent to make Norway sound bad, I just wanted to give examples of my experience here and how it differs from the states.  My expectations were a lot different.

The educations system is a bit of a worry, I have 2 daughers at school.  As opposed to encouraging excellence, the bar is often set by the least gifted child in the class, sort of an egalitarian attitude and not wanting anyones feelings to get hurt.  So unless you look into private schooling, be prepared to be shocked.  I give my kids extra homework everynight and extra activities as well as only speaking English at home, they get exposed to Norweian all the time as soon as we walk out the front door.
Crime, well it isn't as safe as you would expect, but it really depåends on where you are.  Oslo at night is downright dangerous and break and enters, knife attacks and other violent crime is on the rise in the major centres.  Mainly due to the Norwegian government reducing police numbers and then splashing it all over the papers as well as the fact that Norwegian prisons are like club med holiday camps for many of the eastern European gangs and asylum seekers who come here.
As a foreigner, your credentials, education and experience will count for a lot less than if you were a Norwegian.  Think of it as a point system out of 100, if you are a Norwegian, you start of with 50 points, then get extra if you are a local, like the same sports and football team a the boss, that sort of thing.
You will have to get used to meeting a lot of discrimination and xenophobia as an adult immigrant to Norway, but your kids will do fine.
The climate is extreme, you will need to invest a small fortune in winter clothes as well as get ready to be shocked at what a car costs.  You will also need winter tyres and the car will be quickly destroyed by rust from salted roads and the state of the road network is appalling for a supposedly rich country.  On the upside, your driving skills will improve as you dodge the holes and try to avoid the semi trailers from Eastern Europe that are often commanded by very inebriated drivers.
Best to look at what your qualifications are then look at the job sites, best to try and locate a position before you come over if at all possible. 
Good luck, I am ready to head back home after 13 years as despite my best efforts, being excluded from truly participating in society is against everything I believe in.

So the education system is the same in Oslo as it is out in the sticks?
That concerns me and I'm more inclined to get my kids into a private school.

go shopping for schools, talk to parents, teachers and try and access the rankings list via the department of education.  Private schools often are 'International schools' and their is a good one in Oslo.  These offer a wider diversity and often higher education levels and expectations from students due to the nature of their clientele.  They are private and incur a stiff fee, but it seems to be a good invstment.  I have had friends who work in the diplomatic core, one couple is Italian with a Norwegian wife and they placed their children in a private school due to their expectations and the opportunities this type of school offfered their children.  Many of the richer Norwegians also elect for this type of education, it seems to be similar to that found all over the world.
My biggest concern with the public state run schools is the lack of emphasis on the core subjects and that it is sport that is often the main focus and manner in which children can attain acknowledgement for acheivment.  At the school where my daughters attend, not 1 single competition or opportunity exists for them to display their academic credentials yet they are often drawn out of the classroom to engage in sporting competitions.  Also, it seems that sports are awarded the majority of funding from the state (much via the lottery system here where a percentage of money spent on the lottery is awarded to various causes and activity groups).
It really depends on what you are seeking, but it pays to be critical and have high expectations, this is our children's future we are building and I think that it is a good investment of our resources.
Also, look around any prospective school, many schools in Norway are reporting that they are in various states of disrepair and can be technically toxic due to the older building materials used in previous generations.  Also some schools are having problems in regard to maintaining a balance of cultures and ethnicity and western children have been subjected to exclusion and intolerance.  This is not common, but does occur. 
Like I said, it depends on what you value and what you seek and expect.

Just wanted to add to the discussion that my experiences have been completely different than those of Auswegian. My husband and I are both PhDs teaching at the university, so we clearly place a lot of importance on a good education. We chose to put our son in the public school system and really, actually like the type of education he receives there and are not dismayed by the quality of the education. He has, in fact, had ample reward for his achievements (such as winning first place in the school book reading contest). Having said that, I am sure that every school is different, and, just as anywhere, a lot depends on the teacher.

As MamaPanda says, you can be lucky to find the right school and be very happy.  It really is dependant on wht you are seeking and what you expect.  As our expectations will most likely be based on our own experiences in education and the system that is utilised in our home country, it can be easy to misread the system here.
I am in a rural area, and here, sport is the focus of everything.  In the region where I work, they have reported that getting educated people to move here is difficult and that many educated people that do move here soon leave.  It is perhaps more dependant on the area and the opportunities that lie there.  In the cities you may find that there is a better selection and more focus on academic subjects.
I would be asking the same questions and seeking the same reassurances, making the same check if I was in Australia.  There are good schools and 'o.k schools'.  different systems are utilised and some schools attract a higher calibre of teachers.  As parents it is our job to do the research before making a decision.

I'm so excited to find this forum, especially as Stephanie and I are such similar stories, I can just piggy-back on her original post. My husband was born in Oslo but grew up in Bergen. I was born in Montana and grew up in Sonoma County, CA. We currently live in Southern CA (Santa Barbara) and we are considering moving to Oslo to help care for my husband's grandfather. I am excited, but nervous.
It's true though that although the Norwegian winter is beautiful, Southern CA winter ISN'T winter!! :-D Today was mid 60's Fahrenheit and I did my Christmas shopping in a T-shirt and sandals! The snow SCARES me! The potentiality of it lasting four or five months is really terrifying!! Of course, there is simply the fact of being away from everything I know and that is familiar, not to mention being surrounded by an unfamiliar language (although I've been trying to learn for five years!!)
My husband attended an international school (ISB in Bergen) and I am a big fan of that idea, though I am intimidated by the potential price.
There are many, many things that are expensive (which supports the healthcare etc!), however the affordable and thorough public transportation makes owning a car (at least in relatively central Oslo, where we'd live) needless!
Mostly, I am fantastically excited. But I DO have some trepidations. :-)