trustworthy real estate agent or website

Hi Lon,
***
Cheers
Peter

Thanks for responding Peter,

Your link did not make it.  Can you send to ***?

Best regards!

Lon

Longrassman wrote:

Hello, I am interested in buying a small, rustic property with some fruit trees and maybe a small vineyard.  A wine house property, with or without a structure, would be ideal.

Can someone recommend a trustworthy real estate agent or website for this search?

Thanks!

Lon

Trustworthy real estate agent is an oxymoron.

You're not very encouraging Fluffy...ha!  How about instead: one that is legitimate for a purchase to be conducted from the States?  Obviously not the best way to go about it sight unseen, but for a very cheap wine house (1 mil HUF), it's a risk that I am willing to take.

Thanks

fluffy2560 wrote:

Longrassman wrote:

Hello, I am interested in buying a small, rustic property with some fruit trees and maybe a small vineyard.  A wine house property, with or without a structure, would be ideal.

Can someone recommend a trustworthy real estate agent or website for this search?

Thanks!

Lon

Trustworthy real estate agent is an oxymoron.

Quite so.
Be very careful with estate agents as most of them are products of unmarried mummies and daddies.
Only an oxy would trust them without checking the validity of their twisted truth.

Longrassman wrote:

You're not very encouraging Fluffy...ha!  How about instead: one that is legitimate for a purchase to be conducted from the States?  Obviously not the best way to go about it sight unseen, but for a very cheap wine house (1 mil HUF), it's a risk that I am willing to take.

Thanks

Well, you pays your money and takes your chance.   Be aware real estate agents will absolutely lie to your face to make a sale.  Local knowledge is vital.

Others will correct me if my memory fails me in my comments below.

HUF 1M isn't much I grant you but it'll be much the same as many other places in Hungary.  There are plenty of places with a similar kind of price.  You'd have to give us more to go on - land area in m2, if there are buildings and where approximately it is.  A useful metric is price per m2. 

3rd country nationals are not allowed to buy agricultural land. If you are Hungarian or an EU national then you've no problem except where it's a national park.

You cannot usually build a house on such an agricultural property - the maximum size (floor area) would 3% of the land area if I remember correctly.  So if your proposed property was 2000m2, then then your maximum building is about 65m2 per level.  That's quite small.   

I don't think people don't make money with vineyards in Hungary unless I suppose they are very large producers with economy of scale.   

If you really want to do it, make sure you have utilities on site as you could pay a fortune to install it far away from anywhere.  That means at least electricity and mains water.  Better, main drainage/sewerage and even nicer, gas.  You could get a well drilled but you'll need an extraction permit.  You might not be able to drink the water (needs testing). 

BTW, Internet is a utility. You need to  know about that too.  In the middle of nowhere it's unlikely to be available and the fall back is mobile internet which is crazy expensive in HU.

fluffy2560 wrote:

So if your proposed property was 2000m2, then then your maximum building is about 65m2 per level.  That's quite small.

There is the small and tiny house movement. That would be huge for a tiny house.

And many apartments are no larger. So it depends on one's needs and wishes.

For example, our house is a small house. But there is only the two of us. So or needs differ from those with a large family.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

So if your proposed property was 2000m2, then then your maximum building is about 65m2 per level.  That's quite small.

There is the small and tiny house movement. That would be huge for a tiny house.

And many apartments are no larger. So it depends on one's needs and wishes.

For example, our house is a small house. But there is only the two of us. So or needs differ from those with a large family.

Yes, 65m2 is enough for one person but it'll be one of these one room mud type house things to keep tools, maybe a table and a bit of a kitchen for making lunch and a bed for a snooze. Possibly a cellar for the barrels. We can all imagine......

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

So if your proposed property was 2000m2, then then your maximum building is about 65m2 per level.  That's quite small.

There is the small and tiny house movement. That would be huge for a tiny house.

And many apartments are no larger. So it depends on one's needs and wishes.

For example, our house is a small house. But there is only the two of us. So or needs differ from those with a large family.

Yes, 65m2 is enough for one person but it'll be one of these one room mud type house things to keep tools, maybe a table and a bit of a kitchen for making lunch and a bed for a snooze. Possibly a cellar for the barrels. We can all imagine......

Good comments; thanks.  In my case we are not looking to build/live on site, just enjoy the "fruits" of the land and spend a few days there.  As a dual French/American citizen I can buy ag land up to 10,000m2, so my little ~2,000 m2 is good to go.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Yes, 65m2 is enough for one person but it'll be one of these one room mud type house things to keep tools, maybe a table and a bit of a kitchen for making lunch and a bed for a snooze. Possibly a cellar for the barrels. We can all imagine......

Our house is 60m2, and came with six rooms. But we knocked down a few walls so now only has three rooms.



And two people can live nicely in a small house. One simply lives modestly. No American sized kitchen, fridge, bathtub.... But for us, that is fine.

After all, half the year we spend outside. We have a covered porch and two terraces. All with lake view. 

Finding something for only 1 million is going to be hard now.
Things that used to be one million are going for 3 times that much or more now.
Today in fact my husband was cruising on a HU real estate site, we are thinking of renting a summer house for the season near a lake.
Somehow he happened upon a 2 story brick house with a huge grassy yard just off the highway near Balaton, less then 2 miles from the lake and close to a local spa area.
I've been to that spa in the past, nice and mostly locals there.
Ok I was very much against the thought of buying anything, husband made a mistake by showing me the outhouse photo first... NO way!!
Later he told me they have a well, shower and flush toilet is ready to go.. no pun.
Nice as just a summer home, I'd never wish to live there full time, also has a wine cellar under the house and patio is already in place.
Still needs work to be a home, just 40 sq. meters of living space but again lots of room and good location, going for 3 1/2 million .
Years ago we saw properties like this going for under one million.
Something to think about, not sure I want anything to do with yard work or fixing up a vacation home, maybe if our son goes 50-50 with us as we are getting too old to spend time working on a fixer.
No interest in making wine, too much work for us and my husband doesn't drink.
A decent place is going to be over 5 million for sure.
The house next to this vacation home is large and very nice so hopefully most utilites are available, no more details on this place yet.
I would never buy anything without seeing it in person first.
I've rented twice in New Mexico from the same rental manager site unseen as we did the deal from Hawaii.
They were just rentals so not  along term investment, we trusted him as his first deal was really good, the second time we rented a large 4 bd house from him, was alright but not as nice inside and out as we hoped for.
We had a large dog at the time so were glad anyone would rent to us so took the house even though the backyard was nothing but weeds.
Best if you actually come to HU in person before parting with even a million Forints, you never know what headache might come along with a cheap deal.
We looked at a funky house 15 years back not far from lake Velencia here in HU.
Looked OK on paper but after going to look at it I gave up on it.
Had a cespool toilet which was shared to a joining property, too weird for me, what if they didn't care about overflow and we did, not going to war with a neighbor over a smelling situation.
Plus the house was just way too odd inside for me to think about living there at all even for a day would of been too much.
Saw allot of really cheap funky houses with wine vineyards back then, 15 years back.
Someone even wanted to sell off a sort of WW11 bunker as a place to live.
Another few places were cheap but had no water inside and not even a proper well system.
Have to be careful here.
When we bought our current Budapest flat the seller was an idiot, we liked the flat after seeing what was out there for the same price.
When we decided to buy it then out of the blue the seller tells us the real estate agent fees needed to be paid by us.
Almost told him to shove it but we paid the fees because we were in a rush to buy and hadn't seen anything good out there for the cash on hand we had with us.
If you buy from another country site unseen, they will pull something on you, can almost say they will 100%. That's how the ball rolls over here.
The are tricky.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Finding something for only 1 million is going to be hard now.

If you buy from another country site unseen, they will pull something on you, can almost say they will 100%. That's how the ball rolls over here.
The are tricky.

Thanks Marilyn; all of your points are common sense and spot on.  I will be in country in July and will have a look.  There are several candidates in the .9 - 1.3 Mil range.  No worries...

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.......
Had a cespool toilet which was shared to a joining property, too weird for me, what if they didn't care about overflow and we did, not going to war with a neighbor over a smelling situation.
Plus the house was just way too odd inside for me to think about living there at all even for a day would of been too much.
.....
If you buy from another country site unseen, they will pull something on you, can almost say they will 100%. That's how the ball rolls over here.
The are tricky.

Absolutely concur with that. 

Anything shared is going to be a source of irritation and possibly bad relations.  My own 4 year boundary dispute is an example of that - we're resolved but cannot get the cooperation of the neighbour to lay out the boundary for the builders.  Obviously boundaries are shared by default.  A shared waste system, not a chance. It'd have to separated out.

And yes, if it's unseen, it's just a total gamble and the odds are definitely not on the buyer's side.  Almost certain the lawyers (never have the same one acting for both sides) will be in on milking it too. 

I would say you can buy something for say, 1 to 2M HUF but you'll get a ruin and some unloved vines or fruit trees or even scrubland with no services/utilities and with new plots, not even a fence.  Knocking down and removing a ruin will cost 1-2M (it's one of the reasons we didn't knock our entire house down and start again - wasn't economic).

Longrassman wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Finding something for only 1 million is going to be hard now.

If you buy from another country site unseen, they will pull something on you, can almost say they will 100%. That's how the ball rolls over here.
The are tricky.

Thanks Marilyn; all of your points are common sense and spot on.  I will be in country in July and will have a look.  There are several candidates in the .9 - 1.3 Mil range.  No worries...

You've got plenty of choice. 

I was looking (click) here out of my own interest.  I chose Somogy county as it's nearer to the lake.

It's do-able but mega-work.

Yes, even since this morning my husband who was so in love with that Balaton fixer is re thinking it.
He is 71 years old and we both would hate to have him over do it and kill himself for some silly property.
When we purchased our Budapest flat, the buyer had an add in the paper which we responded to, never saw hide no hare of the real estate agent.
Last min. before the deal went down he told us we had to pay the agent which he had signed up with.
It took us aback some , just so odd.
Before we could move on with seeking a lawyer etc. we had to go into the office of the real estate agent and pay them, if not we couldn't legally purchase the flat.
Be ready for all sorts of tricks and BS here, it's overall cheap in Hungary but you still pay one way or the other.
Need to pull out your last reserves of self control to deal with some of the things here.

Thanks for the link, Mr. Fluffy.  I will add it to my search arsenal!

fluffy2560 wrote:

I was looking (click) here out of my own interest.

Ah, yes. I know this site. See properties where I live with for sale signs listing this site from time to time (--- sorry but none in the 1 million range).

So I visited this site, out of curiosity, and entered our village. Results were.... humerus.

Some properties listed as being on my hill and village.... actually aren't. 

One property caught my eye, as in one photo I could see part of one of our (vineyard) properties. So I took a walk to find it. The photos in the ad were.... very creative.... compared to the actual property. 

I am not ragging on this site. Rather, just saying that real estate is real estate the world over. Don't believe the ad about the craftsman small building with a view (i.e. because it really is an outhouse with a moon window cut out of the door). 

Side note: a lot of these cheap old properties have the old asbestos roofing material. Try to avoid those.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I was looking (click) here out of my own interest.

Ah, yes. I know this site. See properties where I live with for sale signs listing this site from time to time (--- sorry but none in the 1 million range).

So I visited this site, out of curiosity, and entered our village. Results were.... humerus.

Some properties listed as being on my hill and village.... actually aren't. 

One property caught my eye, as in one photo I could see part of one of our (vineyard) properties. So I took a walk to find it. The photos in the ad were.... very creative.... compared to the actual property. 

I am not ragging on this site. Rather, just saying that real estate is real estate the world over. Don't believe the ad about the craftsman small building with a view (i.e. because it really is an outhouse with a moon window cut out of the door). 

Side note: a lot of these cheap old properties have the old asbestos roofing material. Try to avoid those.

Hmmmm...my eyebrows just perked up at your mention of asbestos roofing.  Even in a wine house where I would spend very, very little time...I wouldn't want that hanging over my head.

Longrassman wrote:

Hmmmm...my eyebrows just perked up at your mention of asbestos roofing.  Even in a wine house where I would spend very, very little time...I wouldn't want that hanging over my head.

Gray corrugated roof on old buildings here is almost always the old concrete asbestos roofing.

There are flat diamond shaped tiles that may also contain asbestos. Also gray in color.

klsallee wrote:

Longrassman wrote:

Hmmmm...my eyebrows just perked up at your mention of asbestos roofing.  Even in a wine house where I would spend very, very little time...I wouldn't want that hanging over my head.

Gray corrugated roof on old buildings here is almost always the old concrete asbestos roofing.

There are flat diamond shaped tiles that may also contain asbestos. Also gray in color.

Thanks for the tip!

Longrassman wrote:

Thanks for the tip!

Szívesen (you are welcome).

Side note: I did not know this when we first arrived and purchased. And we ended up with these tiles. It was VERY complicated to get rid of them. A real mess. And expensive. I would be offended and horrified but for the fact I grew up with a huge piece of asbestos put in front of the fireplace in our house for "insulation" (it was the 1970's when one could get sheet of asbestos at any DIY shop) -- so I am long ago contaminated.

klsallee wrote:

Longrassman wrote:

Thanks for the tip!

Szívesen (you are welcome).

Side note: I did not know this when we first arrived and purchased. And we ended up with these tiles. It was VERY complicated to get rid of them. A real mess. And expensive. I would be offended and horrified but for the fact I grew up with a huge piece of asbestos put in front of the fireplace in our house for "insulation" (it was the 1970's when one could get sheet of asbestos at any DIY shop) -- so I am long ago contaminated.

Damn, that is not a good thing.  But, they say as long as the fibers are encased and not airborne, the risk is quite low.  Tell me your fireplace heat shield was nice and stable...!

Longrassman wrote:

Tell me your fireplace heat shield was nice and stable...!

I would love to tell you that.

But I can't.

Raw asbestos sheet. Laminated to some backer board. Fibers everywhere. They just did not know back then how bad it was. *cough-cough* (just kidding).

So, when I was in Ghana and the elephant charged me... Meh. Or when the Nile River would not let me out of that hole during a rafting trip (side note: the bottom of the Nile River at that spot is actually rather sandy). Shrug. Because I have breathed asbestos! .

And so on. Such is (an interesting) life.

But I am drifting off topic. 

klsallee wrote:

Longrassman wrote:

Hmmmm...my eyebrows just perked up at your mention of asbestos roofing.  Even in a wine house where I would spend very, very little time...I wouldn't want that hanging over my head.

Gray corrugated roof on old buildings here is almost always the old concrete asbestos roofing.

There are flat diamond shaped tiles that may also contain asbestos. Also gray in color.

Asbestos is all too common but if all the tiles and corrugated materials are in relatively good condition you can actually sell them.   We sold all our old asbestos diamond tiles for 30 or 40K HUF (forgotten exact amount).  I think there were about 200 of them.   People use them to repair their roofs as they cannot buy them now.

Just be thankful we're not talking about pipe lagging in Soviet era apartment buildings.  Mein Gott, that's deadly and costs zillions to remove by people in spacesuits.

klsallee wrote:

Longrassman wrote:

Tell me your fireplace heat shield was nice and stable...!

I would love to tell you that.

But I can't.

Raw asbestos sheet. Laminated to some backer board. Fibers everywhere. They just did not know back then how bad it was. *cough-cough* (just kidding).

So, when I was in Ghana and the elephant charged me... Meh. Or when the Nile River would not let me out of that hole during a rafting trip (side note: the bottom of the Nile River at that spot is actually rather sandy). Shrug. Because I have breathed asbestos! .

And so on. Such is (an interesting) life.

But I am drifting off topic. 

Well now...I also have an elephant attack in Thailand which resulted in a u-shaped motorcycle and a trembling wife, and a leopard attack which resulted in a mangled arm.  We'll need to share some war stories this July!

Longrassman wrote:

....
Well now...I also have an elephant attack in Thailand which resulted in a u-shaped motorcycle and a trembling wife, and a leopard attack which resulted in a mangled arm.  We'll need to share some war stories this July!

Looks like a site for daredevil encounters in odd strange places?

Ok, if we're doing that....

Mrs Fluffy and I were off piste in Zambia near Livingstone Falls, came round a corner in the bush in our Land Rover and we were face to face with a rhino suddenly.... and...

...nothing happened....

The rhino just looked at us and appeared to shrug it's large shoulders ..and moved off silently...probably muttering under it's breath...tut-tut humans...

The hippos were another matter.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

The hippos were another matter.....

Years from now, when you have no need of estate agents because you're dribbling your mush as the nurses feed it to you in whatever nursing home, you'll have great stories to tell.
Imagine all those poor 9 to 5 fools and how the most exciting tale they can relate is about the epic day they dropped a paperclip.

Rock on and live life properly because 9 to 5 is a criminal waste of fun.

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

The hippos were another matter.....

Years from now, when you have no need of estate agents because you're dribbling your mush.....fools and how the most exciting tale they can relate is about the epic day they dropped a paperclip.

Rock on and live life properly because 9 to 5 is a criminal waste of fun.

I think we're off topic here....but just to say....

What do you mean years from now?

Some people like paper clips and 9 to 5 especially in their retirement. 

Maybe that's what the vineyard in the countryside is about -  a simpler life and time to stop being Indiana Jones.

BTW, Mrs Fluffy and I also rode an elephant in Zambia and it was surprisingly comfortable.  I cannot say the same for camels.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy and I were off piste in Zambia near Livingstone Falls, came round a corner in the bush in our Land Rover and we were face to face with a rhino suddenly.... and...

...nothing happened....

Hey, you saw a rhino in the wild. That is certainly something! That is rare!* 

* Because of too many unfortunate reasons....

fluffy2560 wrote:

Maybe that's what the vineyard in the countryside is about -  a simpler life and time to stop being Indiana Jones.

Well, I got both the vineyard and the hat. So.... there is that.... 

I have been "lucky" lately. Has been nice to not be constantly on long haul flights for awhile to some distant location.

But I will be on a long haul flight this coming week. All good things come to an end......

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, Mrs Fluffy and I also rode an elephant in Zambia and it was surprisingly comfortable.  I cannot say the same for camels.

One hump camel or two? That is, were you uncomfortable due to the squeeze play? 

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy and I were off piste in Zambia near Livingstone Falls, came round a corner in the bush in our Land Rover and we were face to face with a rhino suddenly.... and...

...nothing happened....

Hey, you saw a rhino in the wild. That is certainly something! That is rare!* 

* Because of too many unfortunate reasons....

Yes, it was very unusual but it was a really long time ago - probably 20+ years. 

Most individual rhinos are guarded by armed rangers these days.

Sad it needs that.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Maybe that's what the vineyard in the countryside is about -  a simpler life and time to stop being Indiana Jones.

Well, I got both the vineyard and the hat. So.... there is that.... 

I have been "lucky" lately. Has been nice to not be constantly on long haul flights for awhile to some distant location.

But I will be on a long haul flight this coming week. All good things come to an end......

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, Mrs Fluffy and I also rode an elephant in Zambia and it was surprisingly comfortable.  I cannot say the same for camels.

One hump camel or two? That is, were you uncomfortable due to the squeeze play? 

One hump.   These animals are not built for riding as you can imagine.   It's a horse designed by a committee.

The locals were highly amused at me struggling to hang on.  It wasn't a tourist place, we just were passing some camels in a desert setting and stopped to have a look and a camel guy came over to chat. 

But as we didn't speak Arabic - odd words - it was much a-smiling and grinning (even gurning) but I got a free ride out of it.   

Analogous to the usual offering of hot sweet tea, I didn't see he had the necessary camels to say "one hump or two?".   Dromedary vs Bactrian etc.

To keep on topic, maybe  as an alternative to fruit trees and grapes, we could be talking camelids - it might be worth starting a camel breeding farm in Hungary instead of a vineyard.  Llamas or Alpacas.   There's the herd of Buffalo down by the lake and people like to pay to see them.

One could see llamas might be a nice attraction and profitable too - top class breeding alpacas can easily command $30-$40K. 

Llamas have become very popular in the UK with sheep herders. Llamas are good at guarding flocks and there's always the wool/fur to use.

I think I'd rather have a few llamas than a vineyard but it must be a lot more  work.

fluffy2560 wrote:

To keep on topic, maybe  as an alternative to fruit trees and grapes, we could be talking camelids - it might be worth starting a camel breeding farm in Hungary instead of a vineyard.  Llamas or Alpacas. .

All them critters are too foreign. 

There is quite a "thing" about grey cattle in Hungary, but the national park runs a herd (at taxpayers expense) and undercuts private ranchers too much on sales prices. Politics. Another off topic issue. 

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

The hippos were another matter.....

Years from now, when you have no need of estate agents because you're dribbling your mush as the nurses feed it to you in whatever nursing home, you'll have great stories to tell.
Imagine all those poor 9 to 5 fools and how the most exciting tale they can relate is about the epic day they dropped a paperclip.

Rock on and live life properly because 9 to 5 is a criminal waste of fun.

Well said Fred!  A life with adventure is indeed a life worth living.  I had a fun ride for 10 years in the jungles of Thailand when I pursued my wildlife degree.  But I never signed up for an elephant and leopard attack.  Had I known this was in store I might have opted to be a paper clip salesman.  But I think that all of us, even the those of the supposed hum drum ilk, eventually find a little adventure in our lives.  It just doesn't necessarily have to be life or death  !

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

To keep on topic, maybe  as an alternative to fruit trees and grapes, we could be talking camelids - it might be worth starting a camel breeding farm in Hungary instead of a vineyard.  Llamas or Alpacas. .

All them critters are too foreign. 

There is quite a "thing" about grey cattle in Hungary, but the national park runs a herd (at taxpayers expense) and undercuts private ranchers too much on sales prices. Politics. Another off topic issue. 

Yes but they are cute. Sort of.  Cuter than grey cattle for sure.  Were they grey market cattle?   Psst...wanna buy some cattle? Oh, no that's black market cattle.

I doubt llamas could become an invasive species like say, camels, cane toads or rabbits in Australia or even beaver and mink in the UK or black bears or wolves over this way.  There were even camels in California I believe and possibly a small herd still in existence deep in the depths of deserts there. 

I know OV wants foreigners out but I doubt even he could find a Soros or Juncker link to complain about alpacas without visas piling up at the border fence, refugees from failed camelid farms in the Middle East.  What is the EU not telling us?

I'm declaring my support now for alpaca farms on ex-vineyards.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Were they grey market cattle?   Psst...wanna buy some cattle? Oh, no that's black market cattle.

I don't want to spread any bull....



But we may be entering a grey zone here of being off topic..... 

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm declaring my support now for alpaca farms on ex-vineyards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have heard that all before. Everyone says they will support alpacas on the vineyard till I tell them prove it and send me a herd of alpacas and I will supply the vineyard (it will be an "ex" vineyard in a week after they arrive). Nobody--- I mean nobody --- has sent me any alpacas to date....

Got sent lots of Llama, some Emu, a bunch of rabbits and two dolphins (seriously --- don't ask about the dolphins....). But not one darn alpaca. 

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Were they grey market cattle?   Psst...wanna buy some cattle? Oh, no that's black market cattle.

I don't want to spread any bull....

[img align=C]https://stcoemgen.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_2100714205.jpg[/url]

But we may be entering a grey zone here of being off topic..... 

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm declaring my support now for alpaca farms on ex-vineyards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have heard that all before. Everyone says they will support alpacas on the vineyard till I tell them prove it and send me a herd of alpacas and I will supply the vineyard (it will be an "ex" vineyard in a week after they arrive). Nobody--- I mean nobody --- has sent me any alpacas to date....

Got sent lots of Llama, some Emu, a bunch of rabbits and two dolphins (seriously --- don't ask about the dolphins....). But not one darn alpaca. 

I think we'll go to Absolutely Anything Else....

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Maybe that's what the vineyard in the countryside is about -  a simpler life and time to stop being Indiana Jones.

Well, I got both the vineyard and the hat. So.... there is that.... 

I have been "lucky" lately. Has been nice to not be constantly on long haul flights for awhile to some distant location.

But I will be on a long haul flight this coming week. All good things come to an end......

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, Mrs Fluffy and I also rode an elephant in Zambia and it was surprisingly comfortable.  I cannot say the same for camels.

One hump camel or two? That is, were you uncomfortable due to the squeeze play? 

Safe flight!
Rode an elephant at a zoo once, that was enough.