HCMC is 3rd best city for expats in 2020

Agree, I feel those negative points more important than income and cost of living.

colinoscapee wrote:

Agree, I feel those negative points more important than income and cost of living.

This 100%.  When I first arrived I was enamored with the low cost of living.  It was cute how cheap things were.  Now this city is just a drudgery for me.  I can't wait to go home for a couple weeks every couple of months for some food variety and civilization, even though that means leaving my wife and daughter behind.  I also struggle to wait another year before the three of us can escape back to the US.

When I do come back to Vietnam it won't be to Sai Gon.  I've gone from tolerating this city to hating it and that is after only living here since January.

I think they asked all the stranded backpackers.
They love the chaos, anarchy-like conditions, the noise and unregulated lives.
For smokers and potheads the bad air is secondary.

I've only spent a couple of months there, on and off, however, living in Saigon, I think a person could quickly come to miss the traffic in Los Angeles...

Let's not forget the report that stated the average income for an expat is 100k. When you are earning that sort of money here, who cares about the peasants.

Agreed: Taipei numbah 1. Has everything going for it. Not as polluted, relatively cheap to eat and go out. Great people. Taiwan's government subsidized healthcare is awesome. Cheap subway and public transportation. Saigon no. 3? Tokyo 26th? Seoul 63rd? That's when you start to scratch your head and say that this list is full of crap. Tokyo and Seoul are world-class cities. Saigon doesn't even come close.

chenwen wrote:

Agreed: Taipei numbah 1. Has everything going for it. Not as polluted, relatively cheap to eat and go out. Great people. Taiwan's government subsidized healthcare is awesome. Cheap subway and public transportation. Saigon no. 3? Tokyo 26th? Seoul 63rd? That's when you start to scratch your head and say that this list is full of crap. Tokyo and Seoul are world-class cities. Saigon doesn't even come close.

Not disagreeing with anything you said, but just curious because you are from Taiwan but living in HCMC.

I am guessing you're living in Sai Gon just temporarily for work/doing business?

SteinNebraska wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Agree, I feel those negative points more important than income and cost of living.

This 100%.  When I first arrived I was enamored with the low cost of living.  It was cute how cheap things were.  Now this city is just a drudgery for me.  I can't wait to go home for a couple weeks every couple of months for some food variety and civilization, even though that means leaving my wife and daughter behind.  I also struggle to wait another year before the three of us can escape back to the US.

When I do come back to Vietnam it won't be to Sai Gon.  I've gone from tolerating this city to hating it and that is after only living here since January.

How anyone could even entertain the idea of living in any country in Asia is totally beyond me. Leaving Canada for an Asian country is a step backward. But escaping for the winter months is a great past time.
Then it's back to the real world. Wouldn't have it any other way.

This is laughable. I suggest you should travel more.

If you open the link and scroll down to the results table (partial) you will become aware that what leads to a difference of opinion may be the weighting of the categories.  Notice that Singapore is 4th place overall but 54th for cost of living, worse than even Tokyo but not as expensive as Seoul or Hong Kong.  If you work for a multi-national bank that would make it a great place but out of reach for many retirees.  Conversely, HCM was a terrible 63d for Quality of Urban Living but was 1st for Cost of Living. It all depends on the weighting.

Canman62 wrote:

How anyone could even entertain the idea of living in any country in Asia is totally beyond me. Leaving Canada for an Asian country is a step backward.

A successful expat knows why the above is wrong.

colinoscapee wrote:

Let's not forget the report that stated the average income for an expat is 100k. When you are earning that sort of money here, who cares about the peasants.

I'm not rich, just confortable, but I care about "the peasants" regardless of my financial situation. I see so many expats ignoring locals or, even worse, treating them like coolies - an attitude I find abhorrent.
I have no care if the person I'm speaking to is a white company director or a local rubbish collector, they get treated with the respect they deserve, that being calculated by their heart - nothing else.

I haven't read the whole thread or even the whole link, but did anyone get to mentioning the quality of life most expats enjoy, or consider the lack of stress (unless you make it yourself)?
How important is 'happy' in your life?

Canman62 wrote:

But escaping for the winter months is a great past time.
Then it's back to the real world. Wouldn't have it any other way.

If I can't convince her to go to NW Ontario for the summers at least it will be MN, then back to Da Lat for the winters.  I really want to go to Minaki/LOTW for the summer.  We have gone there for a couple of weeks for the last 24 years.  I might have to compromise and go to Kenora so she has a little "city" life.  I have put forth the private island thing in the Winnipeg River.  She's not going along with that.

Canman62 wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Agree, I feel those negative points more important than income and cost of living.

This 100%.  When I first arrived I was enamored with the low cost of living.  It was cute how cheap things were.  Now this city is just a drudgery for me.  I can't wait to go home for a couple weeks every couple of months for some food variety and civilization, even though that means leaving my wife and daughter behind.  I also struggle to wait another year before the three of us can escape back to the US.

When I do come back to Vietnam it won't be to Sai Gon.  I've gone from tolerating this city to hating it and that is after only living here since January.

How anyone could even entertain the idea of living in any country in Asia is totally beyond me. Leaving Canada for an Asian country is a step backward. But escaping for the winter months is a great past time.
Then it's back to the real world. Wouldn't have it any other way.

I understand how you feel, even though I don't agree.

That just means you are a tourist, not an expatriate.

Please return your membership card immediately...

Yes a tourist, snowbird if you wish. Wouldn't have it any other way.
But that's just me. Different strokes for different folks.
Stein: bringing your wife to a mosquito infested island for the summer would put your relationship to the test to say the least.
My friend has brought his Vietnamese wife to NW Ontario, she loves to go fishing and has adapted quite well.
On a humerous  note, it took her quite some time to throw away the carcass and only keep the meat.
She would have no part of it and insisted on keeping the head and carcass after cleaning the fish. No waste.
The conservation officer also had a hard time, as he had never seen a cooler full of carcasses, being kept.
When he seen the Vietnamese lady in the truck, he smiled, wished us a nice day.
I'll never forget the young son stating, - my mom eats anything.
Took her some time to get used to the snow- cold, and even the odd bear walking thru their yard. Hahha

Canman62 wrote:

On a humerous  note, it took her quite some time to throw away the carcass and only keep the meat.
She would have no part of it and insisted on keeping the head and carcass after cleaning the fish. No waste.

Fish here don't stand a chance.   My wife cooks the whole thing.  I eat the meat.  Her and her daughter eat...everything else.  Between the three of us there isn't much left over for the stray cats or dogs.

My lady in Saigon sent me pictures of fish head and fins for dinner.

This certainly doesn't sound like the 3rd Best City:

Pollution-choked Saigon should monitor air quality daily: environment department

According to the environment department, its proposal on increasing the monitoring frequency aims to keep both city residents and the administration informed until the city is equipped with a comprehensive environmental monitoring system costing VND495 billion ($21.3 million). The first system of its kind in Vietnam is expected to be go into service by 2022.

HCMC, Vietnam's largest city, has been choked by haze regularly this year.

The air quality index in the city has reached very unhealthy levels on many days since September. Authorities have said exhaust from around 10 million vehicles is one of the three major causes of air pollution in the city, besides smoke from 1,000 large factories and dust from numerous construction sites.

Full article:
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/pollu … 23704.html

I agree with that except for one thing, the air pollution is so bad its actually UNLIVEABLE

If you are living in Saigon for any period of time longer then a few weeks I worry for your well being

I loved the city , the culture, the history , the people, the GIRLS, but the air was so bad I was wearing a mask by day 3-4

I went to Tokyo afterwards and that city is also unliveable due to the cost, , I would of considered siagon my winter getaway year after year if it wasn't for the air quality

Going to Da nang this time around and I hope its a little ( or a lot) better

They should rather do something about the bad air than monitor it area-wide.

In Hanoi they are thinking about banning motorcycles from the city in the medium to long term.
But this will never work if there are no alternatives.
To extend the bus network in the cities and to introduce bus lanes would probably be the easiest thing to do in the short term.
But I can hardly imagine that in Vietnam the road users would keep the bus lane free.

Maybe the metros will be finished sometime.

1willy1 wrote:

I agree with that except for one thing, the air pollution is so bad its actually UNLIVEABLE

If you are living in Saigon for any period of time longer then a few weeks I worry for your well being

I loved the city , the culture, the history , the people, the GIRLS, but the air was so bad I was wearing a mask by day 3-4

I went to Tokyo afterwards and that city is also unliveable due to the cost, , I would of considered siagon my winter getaway year after year if it wasn't for the air quality

Going to Da nang this time around and I hope its a little ( or a lot) better

It should be, but not perfect.

Last year at about this time it was a dry Monsoon (which eventually became very wet).

The shifting winds were kicking up tons of crud in the air.

In addition to expats, I know many Vietnamese people there who weren't tolerating the air very well.

Lots of very serious hayfever/rhinitis and bronchitis.

Then there were also a number of days when the general air quality was very bad based on published monitoring.

Still better than Saigon I'm sure, but not always so great there

Great discussion here. I agree with all opposing point of views. I'm writing this along the ocean side in a small coffee shop in Rach Gia, with a cool breeze of fresh air from the sea and even though at times I wish I could be in Saigon for a night or two, I'm definitely happy with my choice.

I kind of already knew the pros and cons of living in a smaller city but pollution and health was important to me, especially since I'm trying to keep a healthy lifestyle now that I'm getting older (well, that's theoretical now with the amount of alcohol I'm "forced" to drink when partying with the locals).

If dating would have been my priority, Saigon would have been my choice. Dating in Kien Giang is impossible for a Westerner unless he's prepared to get married and bring the woman back home. That's the deal    Just last night I went to have dinner at friends place and they tried to match me with an uncle's daughter. They asked me *when* I was ready to get married and were quite direct with the fact that she was going to Canada afterwards. Now I'm ghosting this young Goddess. Man it hurts. I will humbly tell you that I could never get such a beauty in Canada unless I drove a Porsche 

In spite of my dating curse, I'm still happy to be away from Saigon.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Great discussion here. I agree with all opposing point of views. I'm writing this along the ocean side in a small coffee shop in Rach Gia, with a cool breeze of fresh air from the sea and even though at times I wish I could be in Saigon for a night or two, I'm definitely happy with my choice.

I kind of already knew the pros and cons of living in a smaller city but pollution and health was important to me, especially since I'm trying to keep a healthy lifestyle now that I'm getting older (well, that's theoretical now with the amount of alcohol I'm "forced" to drink when partying with the locals).

If dating would have been my priority, Saigon would have been my choice. Dating in Kien Giang is impossible for a Westerner unless he's prepared to get married and bring the woman back home. That's the deal    Just last night I went to have dinner at friends place and they tried to match me with an uncle's daughter. They asked me *when* I was ready to get married and were quite direct with the fact that she was going to Canada afterwards. Now I'm ghosting this young Goddess. Man it hurts. I will humbly tell you that I could never get such a beauty in Canada unless I drove a Porsche 

In spite of my dating curse, I'm still happy to be away from Saigon.

Sounds like the prime motive of your friends, Uncle's daughter is to get out of VN.

colinoscapee wrote:

Sounds like the prime motive of your friends, Uncle's daughter is to get out of VN.

That's the main motive of a lot of Vietnamese people. I love throwing baseless statistics so I'd say back in 2010, 90% of Vietnamese people dreamed of leaving the country, now it's maybe 80%.

I find the air quality to be quite good in Danang, generally a nice breeze off the ocean, never had any problems with coughing , sinus, that I generally get elsewhere in Asia. It's crop burning time in northern Thailand, Chang Mai area, now that's unliveable. Had to leave after a few days it was so bad. Haven't been back. All of Asia has major air quality problems. I find ocean breezes help me, I'll also spend time up north in ha giang this winter. Never appreciated fresh air so much as stepping off the plane coming home to Canada.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Great discussion here. I agree with all opposing point of views. I'm writing this along the ocean side in a small coffee shop in Rach Gia, with a cool breeze of fresh air from the sea and even though at times I wish I could be in Saigon for a night or two, I'm definitely happy with my choice.

I kind of already knew the pros and cons of living in a smaller city but pollution and health was important to me, especially since I'm trying to keep a healthy lifestyle now that I'm getting older (well, that's theoretical now with the amount of alcohol I'm "forced" to drink when partying with the locals).

If dating would have been my priority, Saigon would have been my choice. Dating in Kien Giang is impossible for a Westerner unless he's prepared to get married and bring the woman back home. That's the deal    Just last night I went to have dinner at friends place and they tried to match me with an uncle's daughter. They asked me *when* I was ready to get married and were quite direct with the fact that she was going to Canada afterwards. Now I'm ghosting this young Goddess. Man it hurts. I will humbly tell you that I could never get such a beauty in Canada unless I drove a Porsche 

In spite of my dating curse, I'm still happy to be away from Saigon.

send her my way Willy, I don't have a Porsche , but I have a pinto!

Canman62 wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Great discussion here. I agree with all opposing point of views. I'm writing this along the ocean side in a small coffee shop in Rach Gia, with a cool breeze of fresh air from the sea and even though at times I wish I could be in Saigon for a night or two, I'm definitely happy with my choice.

I kind of already knew the pros and cons of living in a smaller city but pollution and health was important to me, especially since I'm trying to keep a healthy lifestyle now that I'm getting older (well, that's theoretical now with the amount of alcohol I'm "forced" to drink when partying with the locals).

If dating would have been my priority, Saigon would have been my choice. Dating in Kien Giang is impossible for a Westerner unless he's prepared to get married and bring the woman back home. That's the deal    Just last night I went to have dinner at friends place and they tried to match me with an uncle's daughter. They asked me *when* I was ready to get married and were quite direct with the fact that she was going to Canada afterwards. Now I'm ghosting this young Goddess. Man it hurts. I will humbly tell you that I could never get such a beauty in Canada unless I drove a Porsche 

In spite of my dating curse, I'm still happy to be away from Saigon.

send her my way Willy, I don't have a Porsche , but I have a pinto!

Maybe she wants a willie...

😉

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Canman62 wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Great discussion here. I agree with all opposing point of views. I'm writing this along the ocean side in a small coffee shop in Rach Gia, with a cool breeze of fresh air from the sea and even though at times I wish I could be in Saigon for a night or two, I'm definitely happy with my choice.

I kind of already knew the pros and cons of living in a smaller city but pollution and health was important to me, especially since I'm trying to keep a healthy lifestyle now that I'm getting older (well, that's theoretical now with the amount of alcohol I'm "forced" to drink when partying with the locals).

If dating would have been my priority, Saigon would have been my choice. Dating in Kien Giang is impossible for a Westerner unless he's prepared to get married and bring the woman back home. That's the deal    Just last night I went to have dinner at friends place and they tried to match me with an uncle's daughter. They asked me *when* I was ready to get married and were quite direct with the fact that she was going to Canada afterwards. Now I'm ghosting this young Goddess. Man it hurts. I will humbly tell you that I could never get such a beauty in Canada unless I drove a Porsche 

In spite of my dating curse, I'm still happy to be away from Saigon.

send her my way Willy, I don't have a Porsche , but I have a pinto!

Maybe she wants a willie...

😉

Little Willy Willy wont go home, lol.Little Willy

As the saying goes, where there's a Willie there's a way 

Perhaps a bachelor party in Bangkok would be in order.
And film the next movie, hangover 3!

Canman62 wrote:

Perhaps a bachelor party in Bangkok would be in order.
And film the next movie, hangover 3!

There's already a Hangover 3 and the second one is already in Bangkok

Been a while since I've been to the movies, 😂😂

Some people love HCM than other Vietnamese Cities.

Also as a local guy, I love my HCM too. Why?

Beautiful girls ^_^ is the 1st top reason.
Delicous foods
Many "Fun" places

minhnhat84 wrote:

Some people love HCM than other Vietnamese Cities.

Also as a local guy, I love my HCM too. Why?

Beautiful girls ^_^ is the 1st top reason.
Delicous foods
Many "Fun" places

It relates to expats, not locals.

minhnhat84 wrote:

Some people love HCM than other Vietnamese Cities.

Also, as a local guy, I love my HCM too. Why?

Beautiful girls ^_^ is the 1st top reason.
Delicous foods
Many "Fun" places

You can find beautiful girls everywhere in the world. LOL

Canman62 wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Agree, I feel those negative points more important than income and cost of living.

This 100%.  When I first arrived I was enamored with the low cost of living.  It was cute how cheap things were.  Now this city is just a drudgery for me.  I can't wait to go home for a couple weeks every couple of months for some food variety and civilization, even though that means leaving my wife and daughter behind.  I also struggle to wait another year before the three of us can escape back to the US.

When I do come back to Vietnam it won't be to Sai Gon.  I've gone from tolerating this city to hating it and that is after only living here since January.

How anyone could even entertain the idea of living in any country in Asia is totally beyond me. Leaving Canada for an Asian country is a step backward. But escaping for the winter months is a great past time.
Then it's back to the real world. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Not only about Winter, but I also love the weather in Asia with a different feeling.

Contem talk wrote:

minhnhat84 wrote:

Some people love HCM than other Vietnamese Cities.

Also, as a local guy, I love my HCM too. Why?

Beautiful girls ^_^ is the 1st top reason.
Delicous foods
Many "Fun" places

You can find beautiful girls everywhere in the world. LOL

That's what I think.

Beauty is a matter of taste.

The whiter the skin and the more the nose was enlarged, the uglier I find Asian women.

I also like slim, dainty women, which is becoming less and less common in Vietnam and Thailand. Unfortunately.

minhnhat84 wrote:

Some people love HCM than other Vietnamese Cities.

Also as a local guy, I love my HCM too. Why?

Beautiful girls ^_^ is the 1st top reason.
Delicous foods
Many "Fun" places

Yes, these things are true for both locals and expats but still it's difficult for many to live there long-term. Short visits of several days seem better for many people.

Interesting thread, let me share my thoughts, having just returned "for good" to Melbourne after 5.5 years in Saigon and 4.5 years in KL. I much preferred Saigon to KL -- great people with a good sense of humour (but no sense of privacy) and good, fresh food (though I was loth to touch any freshwater fish). Speaking of food, however, after a while I began to realise that Vietnam only has ten different dishes. They all do it differently but it does get a bit same-same after a while. KL had far more variety (Malay, Chinese, Tamil) but the ethnic tensions and enmity over there got to me as I managed a team of Malaysians.

Air pollution in Saigon was a big downer on my motorcycle commutes, though it was worse in Hanoi. Someone mentioned Danang, which would have been my choice if I had it all my own way.

Still, ten years in Asia has been enough for now. Glad to be back in happy-go-lucky Australia and its overall quality of life, even if it ranks behind its Asian neighbours in GDP growth and PISA school rankings. Yet, education is Australia's third-largest export after iron ore (to China) and coal (to China and India) -- Asian students come to Australia hoping for residence permits afterwards, or students attend Australian campuses in Asia with internationally-recognised degrees (e.g. Melbourne's huge RMIT campus in Saigon, with branches in Hanoi and Danang).

I've lived in four countries as an adult (Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia and Vietnam) and another five in Asia and Africa as a child (my dad was a peripatetic banker), and Vietnam probably ranks second after Aussie as a place to live. The tonal language is a killer though, and let's not begin about its crazy, make-work visa policies :-)

As for the top 10 rankings in 2019 (they seem to change a lot from year to year):

1. Taiwan -- Never been, don't know.

2. Vietnam -- See above

3. Portugal -- Yep, I get that.

4. Mexico -- Never been.

5. Spain -- Yep, for sure.

6. Singapore -- My country of birth, been there several times since, very 'un-Asian' in its efficiency, very sterile. Only worth it with an expat salary.

7. Bahrain -- Never been.

8. Ecuador -- Never been. Costa Rica or Argentina perhaps? The latter qualifies as the Australia of South America.

9. Malaysia -- See above.

10. Czech Republic -- Visited many times when it was still behind the "iron curtain". Have a godchild in Prague named after me. Stunningly beautiful city, swamped by Brit stag parties now. Wonderful people.

Previous years also listed Hong Kong. Lived there as a kid and visited several times since then. Engaging metropolis but not now...